Rogue electors brief Clinton camp on anti-Trump plan

[brooklynite]

Source: Politico

Advocates of the long-shot bid to turn the Electoral College against Donald Trump have been in contact with close allies of Hillary Clinton, according to multiple sources familiar with the discussions, but the Clinton camp — and Clinton herself — have declined to weigh in on the merits of the plan.

...snip...

The electors leading the anti-Trump push say they’re operating without regard to the Clinton campaign’s views and without its assistance. To some leaders of the anti-Trump effort, the lack of formal Democratic Party engagement is an asset as they attempt to woo Republicans.

“We’re really doing this on our own,” said Polly Baca, a Democratic elector from Colorado and organizer of “Hamilton Electors,” the group encouraging Republican defections from Trump. “This is something we have to do as electors. This is our responsibility.”

...snip...

The Democratic electors have already revealed that they’re close to a consensus pick for whom they will vote: Ohio Gov. John Kasich.



Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/electoral-college-rogues-trump-clinton-232195

[LisaM]

1. Ugh, Kasich is just as bad as the rest of them.

How he's contrived to pull the wool over everybody's eyes is beyond me, but he's as much as a menace as the rest of them.

[ananda]

3. Agree.

Are they nuts?

[TwilightZone]

28. I think he's better than Trump.

I realize that it's all relative and it's a matter of degrees, but I think Kasich would be better than batshit crazy.

That being said, the end result would probably be similar. The GOP is still going to be running Congress, and Kasich is really conservative. He might not get us into a war over Twitter, though. Then again....

[robbedvoter]

30. They are throwing away their vote like the 3rd party voters did. When we're on the brink

of distraction. Vote for her or the madman gets the nuclear codes. It's that simple.

[robbedvoter]

34. So is Harambe. Or Deez Nutz. They are making a mockery

of the system when the world depends on their sense of reason

[bigmonkey]

83. You can't say it's a mockery of the system, if it's the system.

It's a function of the Electoral College never exercised, but it's constitutional as hell.

[LisaM]

37. His foreign relations would be moderately better.

As a woman, I feel compelled to add that he might be worse on women's issues than Trump or almost anyone except Pence, and this paradigm wouldn't get rid of Pence.

[TwilightZone]

41. Trump's an unknown.

But you could certainly be right. Kasich's record is abysmal on women's issues.

It might get rid of Pence. It sounds like it depends on what the Senate would do, though I don't fully understand the process.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. No question, Pence the worst ever! Nazi-Elect tRump not far behind tho.

[DK504]

43. Kasich and Pence are the same.

Kasich knows how to work the system. Herr Gropenfurher has no clue what he's doing is illegal and the press is letting him get away with it.

[wordpix]

53. why would Dem electors vote for Kasich? I don't get it

Maybe it's explained further on. I just read the lead in.

[lapucelle]

79. Under the theory that the Republicans won the White House.

Choosing a Democrat (including Hillary) would be seen as a partisan move, rather than a vote of conscience.

I don't think that Hillary would want or accept the office under these circumstances.

[wordpix]

55. Dems who think this is a good idea need to negotiate some cabinet positions

LOTS of them.

[jack69]

80. Kasich

and all the other GOP candidates would probably be worse than the present one.

[William Seger]

86. Kasich is very bad, but Trump is a mentally ill fascist (nt)

[trueblue2007]

84. WHY THE CRAP AREN'T THEY VOTING FOR HILLARY !!!!!

She could still win this thing if they were not acting like they had their head up their butt.

[Achilleaze]

2. Thank you for your patriotism, Rogue Electors

But do not - under any circumstances - vote for Kasich (R). Yuck a poo.

[robbedvoter]

32. why not vote for Mr Aleppo or Harambe then?

We have idiots everywhere!

[William Seger]

87. If Trump doesn't get 270 and it goes to the House

... the House only gets to decide between the top three from the electoral vote. The hope is that given an actual choice, enough Republicans might bail on what's shaping up to be a disastrous administration.

[stevenleser]

4. How will Democratic Electors voting for Kasich help? If something like this is to work, all

Democratic electors have to vote for Hillary and they need to convince two dozen or so Republican electors to do so as well.

Democratic electors voting for Kasich or anyone else will not help.

[Hestia]

10. Agreed - have thought that JEB! would be the one to vote for - he owes the GOP nothing any longer

[TexasBushwhacker]

11. Well there are plenty of Democratic electors in swing states

that Trump won, but I agree, 38 need to vote for Clinton. Voting for Kasich would, at best, send it to the House, who would choose a Republican, probably Trump.

[stevenleser]

13. Those Democratic electors in states Trump won do not get to vote in the electoral college.

You vote for your candidates slate of electors in your state. If your candidate does not win your state, their electors do not vote in the electoral college.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

50. right - it's only republican electors that have to switch in the states HE "won".

so, the dem electors in the states Hillary won.....if they switch and vote for a republican....not trump....all that would do would be to deprive him of enough electors. thought originally the task was to get trump electors to switch to Hillary

[wordpix]

57. and don't forget, one state's votes are worth more than another's

and other arcane, anachronistic slave-speak from the 1700's.

[FBaggins]

15. They aren't trying to help Clinton. They're trying to stop Trump

They're hoping to convince republican electors to vote for a different republican... Allowing the House to pick someone other than Trump OR Clinton.

So it has to be a Republican.

[stevenleser]

20. Oh great, we would exchange foreign policy buffoonery for a more complete domestic policy disaster.

Kasich would gladly go along with privatization of Medicare and the rest of the Ryan domestic policy plan.

Trump at least campaigned against some of that so there is some hope that he might not go along with all of it.

[Gore1FL]

25. I suspect it will do little but provide the House with another choice besides Trump

In all likelihood, if it went to the House, the net result is a GOP president. That would simply take Trump getting less than 270 and the candidate with the third most electors being the option.

If Democratic electors voting for Kasich encourages GOP electors to follow suit and put Trump at less than 270, more power to them.

[treestar]

44. that is where it could get interesting in that

Orange Disaster is not really preferred by most long term congress persons. They might prefer Hillary. They were expecting it to be her. Even Republicans.

[wordpix]

59. the Big Question: which way will the House go

not just on Congress' pres. preference but also so many other things---Medicare, ACA, uncontrolled rampant development/no pollution controls, privatizing everything, etc. Will moderate R's join Dems or the Tee Party?

[treestar]

64. I even just hope there are any moderate Rs left

they all seem batshit insane!

[wordpix]

69. since you mention it, I'm wracking my brain about who's moderate

At least Paul Ryan has a moderate temperament and might follow protocol, especially if he were a novice like Trump. Our Novice President (ONT).

[wordpix]

58. the Trumpsters will go nuts if this happens

Glad I won't be at the next RNC convention

[progressoid]

26. But the Electors have to be certified by Congress.

A Republican Congress will never certify rogue Electors for Hillary.

[stevenleser]

35. I agree. I see that happening for any effort to use faithless electors to elect Hillary

I don't think we can do ourselves a whole lot of good here.

[treestar]

45. I was looking that up

and it would seem they would have to make objections on some ground and then resolve them.

[Renew Deal]

33. It's meant to keep Trump under 270

The House would pick from the top 3 choices. So if Kasich is in the top 3, the House could select him. It's a long shot.

[treestar]

46. From what I just read if no one gets 270

they have to pick from the 3 top electoral vote getters.

Even Republicans in Congress could prefer Hillary to the Orange Disaster. They would certainly be under pressure.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

52. who got third?

[treestar]

65. Nobody this time

At the beginning of the republic, there might have been some instances.

[wordpix]

63. this is absurd. Hillary won the popular vote by 2.5 million. She is the rightful pres

[treestar]

66. Yes you would think

that would figure heavily in the choices made by electors or house representatives. Going against the will of the majority of the people should have some consequences.

[wordpix]

70. yes, electors, if you don't want Trump, vote the people's choice!

And that is Hillary

[brooklynite]

93. Name a House Republican who has indicated he wouldn't support Trump

[treestar]

96. I remember how many did not want to endorse him

one of the reasons I thought he could never win. They have some sense of government and that he has no experience. Maybe they think they can use him as a puppet, but a lot of them might have the sense to see that is not going to happen and that he is going to be a big disaster and that might affect them. Heck it will, they will lose their seats if things go really wrong.

[LisaL]

48. It's not going to help whatsoever.

Seems like a half baked plan to me.

[wordpix]

56. I'm in agreement. I think this is nuts

Kasich has no more right to the presidency than I do. He wasn't the R nominee by a long shot. geesh. Are they crazy?

[lapucelle]

81. Democratic electors do not have to vote for the Democratic candidate.

The electoral college is a winner take all system in 48 states.

The electors would have to get enough Hamilton electors to give the consensus candidate 270 votes. You need Republican electors on board to reach that number.

Anything less than that would put the choice into the hands of the House, and their selection would be limited to the three candidates with the most electoral college votes. They would pick Trump.

[rzemanfl]

5. Unless they have their 37 Repuke electors on board, this is just embarassing fuckery. n/t

[katsy]

6. Anything that undermines trump mandate

& causes him embarrassment is fine by me. Anything.

[LisaL]

39. How is it going to undermine trump mandate?

Those are democratic electors, not republican.

[treestar]

47. This

and anything that upsets him and makes him twitter out his outrageous garbage and makes him look even worse.

[treestar]

97. Exactly. We know how his thin skin

is dealing with the popular vote loss!

[CincyDem]

7. Kasich is Trump without twitter (and no double chin). n/t

[Cryptoad]

40. ,,and it looks like his liver is functioning ok

[wordpix]

71. do tell

is that why the orange?

[wordpix]

72. Kasich looks unhealthy to me

I have been thru a lot myself and pulled through with medical treatment, a plant-based organic diet, exercise and now I'm healthy except for lasting effects of chemo. I can pretty much spot an unhealthy person and Kasich is one. Either that, or he was overly tired and drained from campaigning. I do not think he can go the distance.

[Devil Child]

8. WTF!?

Why would a Democratic elector EVER vote for Kasich of all people. I understand what they are trying to do in theory but they should be trying to convince Republican electors to stand in opposition to Trump.

[lonestarnot]

9. Oh fuck them.

[WhiteTara]

12. WTF?

[Dopers_Greed]

14. If they are not going to elect either Trump or Hillary....

...at least just go for next-in-line, i.e. Speaker Ryan. Even though I don't agree with him on a single issue, he'd be vastly preferable to Herr Dump.

[Generator]

16. Well I disagree with everyone on this thread

Yes I know Kasich's beliefs. Or Pence's. I don't want to lose the right to abortion. HOWEVER. I don't want a nuclear war or any mass war. I don't want to lose our civil rights. I don't want a police state. I don't want neo-Nazi's in the White House. So YES, anybody but Trump. I fear him. I dislike the others but I don't think they want to be dictators.

[wordpix]

61. I disagree b/c Hillary won the popular vote by almost 3 million

Kasich is not as prepared as Hillary. Let's get the best pres we can get

[brooklynite]

17. Let me first say that I think this is an exercise in futility. HOWEVER.....

...for those wondering how Democrats could vote for Kasich, consider the following options:

1. Democrats vote for Clinton. Republicans vote for Trump. Trump wins.

2. Democrats vote for Clinton. Most Republicans vote for Trump. SOME Republicans vote for Kasich or other candidate. Trump wins.

3. Democrats vote for Clinton. Some Republicans vote for Trump. ENOUGH Republicans vote for Kasich or other candidate to deny an EC win. Decision goes to House. Trump wins.

If the most important thing is denying Trump the Presidency, you can't build your plan around Clinton getting elected. It won't happen. You'll need to come to agreement with Republican Electors on another candidate.

[LisaL]

38. They'd have to convince every democrat and close to 40 republicans to vote for Kasich.

And I don't see it happening.

[wordpix]

62. Popular vote reality instead of maybe-ifs: Clinton's +2.5 million vs Drumpf

I disagree, brooklyn. You're ignoring the popular vote.

[brooklynite]

89. We've clearly established that Republicans don't care about it

[Fiendish Thingy]

75. #3 is flawed logically

If enough rogue electors deny Trump 270 EV's, one can't assume congress will automatically approve Trump as president. Each state delegation only gets one vote, so wheeling and dealing is possible to sway votes to Kasich or whoever is the third place vote getter. I believe this is what happened in the early 1800's when 4 candidates split the EV's- the winner convinced enough to vote for him with promises of pork barrel projects, etc.

While Kasich or Romney would enact abhorrent policies, they would govern competently, as opposed to Trump and his Kleptocrats. Of course they might be harder to beat in 2020, and more difficult to obstruct politically than Trump, but Trump would likely create a far bigger mess that America might never recover from.

[brooklynite]

90. It has nothing to do with logic; it has to do with politics.

I see no opposition to Trump in the House GOP delegation. No basis for assuming they'd vote for anyone else.

[roamer65]

76. Kasich is sane enough to realize that he would be a consensus candidate.

He would govern as more of a moderate Republican until 2020. I think the agreement should be to have Tim Kaine as VP.

[ancianita]

78. ... then fuck 'em all. Thanks for the layout of outcomes. This is good stuff. Bad news.

[Motley13]

18. It isn't going to happen, but Kasich is 100% better than Pence

and I hate to think of the uproar if the maggot's election is overturned. They don't have voter's remorse yet

[red dog 1]

19. I wish them well

But Kasiich?

[Jake Stern]

21. Hope this plan succeeds

We can handle Kasich but we CANNOT accept even one second of Der Trumpenfuhrer's overt Neo-Fascism and Pence's hyper-fundamentalist Christian bullshit.

Go ahead and alert and hide for violating TOS but if saving the USA from this very real threat means putting John Kasich in the WH then so be it.

[treestar]

49. I would not alert on that

anybody but the Orange Toxin.

[wordpix]

68. It's up to all of us to unite & stop the clown car careening

to the end of the US as we know or knew it. No one person can stop the clown car---only all of us together can stop it. Hillary won the popular vote and she is the rightful president. That's all we need to say if we want to UNITE behind the one who without question won the greatest popular vote.

[roamer65]

85. I second your motion.

This isn't about party anymore, it's about saving the republic.

[turbinetree]

22. These "electors" are either for a republic or they are either for fascism

let there conscience be there guide----------------and I hope they sleep well on 12/20/2016

[robbedvoter]

29. Bingo! There's no fuzzy middle ground.

and if they fail to get it - useless!

[turbinetree]

31. If they vote for this fascist, then I feel that 65 million voters should not pay taxes

why not?

If he can do it, why can't we all do it ?

Let them smell the coffee

[olddad56]

23. how about just a recount by hand in every state the the results look fishy.

[turbinetree]

24. I agree with you-------------100%

[robbedvoter]

27. If they aren't voting for her, they might as well set themselves on fire

or any other futile gesture. Like the guy who left to make room for a loyalist. EC proves itself futile with those gestures.

[Sunlei]

36. Responsibility is voting for the person who won the popular vote by close to 3 million.

[wordpix]

60. here, here

[wordpix]

73. I asked Google for the latest numbers and there's no update since

2.5 million in late November. Seems the numbers are frozen due to #Recount2016

[Sunlei]

74. I like the CPR. Will be interesting to see the county/ward differences with the recounts.

http://cookpolitical.com/story/10174

[wordpix]

91. thanks, this is better, Hill still up about 2.6 million

[bucolic_frolic]

42. If

all they do is throw the EC into the House, we haven't made much progress.

We're as likely to get Pence, Kasich, Ryan, Cruz

iow, we'd still need to get to 270

[Coyotl]

51. Hillary's lead now equals 12 states combined of Trump votes, & climbing still.

Just a few more reporting counties, and Hillary will leads by 2 and 2/3 million.

Clinton Dec. 5 margin = 2,645,046
12 state Trump votes = 2,651,861

Almost time to update this graph, CA reporting deadline is tomorrow.


With the current 12 states and DC totals, Trump is under 2 and 2/3 million at 2,664,584. Clinton may pass that total tomorrow.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

54. This is how this petition !!!! was framed - convince people to vote for the WINNER

of the popular vote. period. paragraph.

This chart supports that effort.

In case you haven't signed...

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19-4a78160a-023c-4ff0-9069-53cee2a095a8?recruiter=8280332&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

[Coyotl]

67. 4,759,334 supporters signed, myself included. Historic petition, highest number ever and climbing.

[roamer65]

82. Hillary. You can go down in American history as saving us from fascism.

Do whatever it takes to stop it....PLEASE.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

88. Roamer, you made me think...really, what does she have to lose. He took

away so much from her. He branded her a crooked liar that deserved to be locked up - all without any substantiation whatsoever, and trust me, it took with the low-infos. All the while, HE is the crooked liar ! And then, the phony magnanimity, "she doesn't deserve more punishment". It is really so horrible and so unfair when you really think about it.

[inwiththenew]

92. And this is where Ted Cruz sweeps in

You thought all that wheeling and dealing he was doing was for a contested convention? He's got all the pieces in place to swoop in take the presidency!

[NewJeffCT]

94. Kasich is now saying to not pick him

who is left? Huntsman? Romney? Jeb Bush?

[roamer65]

95. According to David Pakman on PV...

It may be as many as 15 trump electors right now. It's growing.

I predict this thing will go to the House of Reps.