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tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:05 AM Feb 2017

Boeing workers in South Carolina overwhelmingly reject union

Source: CNN Money

Boeing's newest plant in South Carolina will remain nonunion after workers there overwhelmingly rejected an effort by the Machinist union to organize the plant.

According to a company statement, more than 2,000 of the nearly 3,000 Boeing workers at the plant eligible to vote in the closely watched election voted against the union, and only a bit more than 700 members voted yes.

"We will continue to move forward as one team," said Joan Robinson-Berry, vice president and general manager of Boeing South Carolina. "We have a bright future ahead of us and are eager to focus on the accomplishments of this great team."

Manufacturers have been drawn to the South because the region is strongly anti-union. Less than 2% of South Carolina workers are union members, the lowest unionization rate in the nation. Boeing (BA) spent billions to open its North Charleston plant, arguing it needs to assure customers who buy the 787 Dreamliner, which is built there, that the plant wouldn't go on strike.

Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/15/news/companies/boeing-union-vote/index.html

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Boeing workers in South Carolina overwhelmingly reject union (Original Post) tammywammy Feb 2017 OP
I have never understood why the average worker would vote to shoot themselves in the foot like this. cstanleytech Feb 2017 #1
It really is MIND-BOGGLING! Plucketeer Feb 2017 #4
It's heartbreaking reading posts at the blog where they tried to organize them diva77 Feb 2017 #17
From what I am reading some of the tactics Boeing used to oppose this clearly crossed the line cstanleytech Feb 2017 #21
so then you didn't mean that the workers were "shooting themselves in the foot" or did I msundrstnd? diva77 Feb 2017 #24
Huh? No, the workers did that but I suspect they did it because the company interfered and cstanleytech Feb 2017 #34
got it -- thanks! n/t diva77 Feb 2017 #62
Me either! And so many people in SC who would be helped by unions (and have been already, raccoon Feb 2017 #35
Because they like having a job and they want to keep having it. Your question misses the reason PoliticAverse Feb 2017 #56
I've worked at plants in SC starshine00 Feb 2017 #70
I live here Corgigal Feb 2017 #2
If its out of the South then take me with you lol cstanleytech Feb 2017 #6
Me too n/t lordsummerisle Feb 2017 #15
Don't come to Walkers Red WI. riversedge Feb 2017 #40
Atleast you dont have fire ants up there. nt cstanleytech Feb 2017 #41
But lots of bad ticks!! and deer wasting disease, and bad roads, and vile Republicans. The riversedge Feb 2017 #42
We have the bad roads here and probably atleast the same number of Repugnants. cstanleytech Feb 2017 #43
Strongly anti union elmac Feb 2017 #3
Yeah Plucketeer Feb 2017 #5
I think they just don't like the word "union." mac56 Feb 2017 #7
If first you don't secede, Try, try again! nt Gore1FL Feb 2017 #10
Like "liberal" and "feminist" the word "union" has been degraded by decades of right wing tblue37 Feb 2017 #27
It means to them that minorities and women will get protections they otherwise would not. nikibatts Feb 2017 #32
I'm guessing they would be afraid Boeing would just move AJT Feb 2017 #8
That's always been the fear of workers: unionize, negotiate, strike or live by management terms. ancianita Feb 2017 #38
I lived in SC for years, and still have friends that live there Calista241 Feb 2017 #9
If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything mountain grammy Feb 2017 #11
Right or wrong, workers believe Boeing would not have moved to SC if it were more accepting Hoyt Feb 2017 #12
Chalk another one up for Satan ... (n/t) mr_lebowski Feb 2017 #13
I agree with you bravenak Feb 2017 #26
Boeing already had some pretty deep sunk costs in Charleston Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2017 #61
Why did Alenia and Vought select SC? Hoyt Feb 2017 #65
Subsidies Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2017 #72
Agree SharonClark Feb 2017 #67
Union Boeing workers in Washington State overwhelmingly suggest meadowlander Feb 2017 #14
Get what you are saying, but are the people who were making nothing on dirt farms in SC Hoyt Feb 2017 #47
There are dirt farms in Washington too. meadowlander Feb 2017 #59
Sorry, I do not consider someone in rural SC taking a decent job a "scab." Hoyt Feb 2017 #60
The IAM was voted out of the Charleston plant in 2009 after only two years Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2017 #16
I'm a nurse in California. BigDemVoter Feb 2017 #18
stupid. they screwed themselves demtenjeep Feb 2017 #19
That's why they call it a cilla4progress Feb 2017 #20
If more people actually studied history then Trump would not have risen to power. cstanleytech Feb 2017 #22
Yep...and now Boeing LONG GONE from Wichita............ Bengus81 Feb 2017 #50
Vote FOR union? Expect Boeing retaliation... RealityChik Feb 2017 #73
If they called it an "Employee Benefits Assurance Organization" maybe they'd go further...? MADem Feb 2017 #23
Management threats? moondust Feb 2017 #25
Can't help stupid. nt TeamPooka Feb 2017 #28
+100 nt iluvtennis Feb 2017 #30
I worked at a company that went on strike in Orange County California. C Moon Feb 2017 #29
Morons snort Feb 2017 #31
It's part of democracy. The people voted. Democracy is not perfect yeoman6987 Feb 2017 #52
Thank you Ronald Reagan! nikibatts Feb 2017 #33
I'm an organizer and an agent louis c Feb 2017 #36
I wish I was surprised. DonCoquixote Feb 2017 #37
Not surprised . . . Gamecock Lefty Feb 2017 #39
Instead of union, they should call themselves muntrv Feb 2017 #44
And then they want to send there kids to college and make there life better........... turbinetree Feb 2017 #45
I have a middle-distance relationship with Boeing. pangaia Feb 2017 #46
People also forget it isn't just a global economy, AJT Feb 2017 #48
Suggestions in this thread that anti-union sentiment is a uniquely Southern thing are quite mistaken onenote Feb 2017 #49
Worse a heavy Union state like mine where some who have Union great $ &benefits jobs lunasun Feb 2017 #53
No, it isn't exclusive to the south at all. alarimer Feb 2017 #58
I have seen a few failed drives in California from the management side Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2017 #64
Easy to understand. MicaelS Feb 2017 #71
When There Are No Unions, There Are No Good Paying Jobs dlk Feb 2017 #51
ugh... Blue_Tires Feb 2017 #54
Reagan did his job well heaven05 Feb 2017 #55
Anti-Union Propaganda Works otohara Feb 2017 #57
Many of the people in the south do still seem to have that historical logosoco Feb 2017 #63
Yep! TNLib Feb 2017 #68
After failed union vote, Boeing hails Trump visit to plant Judi Lynn Feb 2017 #66
Surprised they even held a vote MichMan Feb 2017 #69
of course nocalflea Feb 2017 #74

cstanleytech

(26,273 posts)
1. I have never understood why the average worker would vote to shoot themselves in the foot like this.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:08 AM
Feb 2017

A strong union can be a very good thing for the workers after all, true sometimes a union screws up but its rare and more often than not they prevent an employer from screwing the workers over.

cstanleytech

(26,273 posts)
21. From what I am reading some of the tactics Boeing used to oppose this clearly crossed the line
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:34 AM
Feb 2017

and just as clearly the current rules are not working to prevent this otherwise they wouldnt have done it.
Clearly its time to increase the amount for the fines for companies and abolish any fine cap and it should come out of the pay from upper level executives like the CEO and the VPs but thats not going to happen which is to bad because if it was coming out of their pocket they might stop this shit.

diva77

(7,638 posts)
24. so then you didn't mean that the workers were "shooting themselves in the foot" or did I msundrstnd?
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:00 AM
Feb 2017

cstanleytech

(26,273 posts)
34. Huh? No, the workers did that but I suspect they did it because the company interfered and
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 06:49 AM
Feb 2017

made them fearful of losing their jobs.

raccoon

(31,106 posts)
35. Me either! And so many people in SC who would be helped by unions (and have been already,
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 07:23 AM
Feb 2017

for that matter) are rabidly anti-union!

It is infuriating. That is one reason the South lags in income and wages and...just about everything else, except spouse-beating, divorce, number of smokers (I'm guessing on this one), etc....

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
56. Because they like having a job and they want to keep having it. Your question misses the reason
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:13 PM
Feb 2017

that Boeing moved there in the first place.

 

starshine00

(531 posts)
70. I've worked at plants in SC
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 08:51 PM
Feb 2017

They make it damn clear they will never be unionized and the unwritten understanding is that if you try to start a union there they will fire you. They have it posted in the case w/ certifications and safety notices when you enter the building and the last line is always "Therefore this and such business will NEVER need a union" and signed below by all the head honchos. I admire the bravery of the people who tried to unionize Boeing, that is amazing...clearly the people who voted against it were afraid for their jobs.

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
2. I live here
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:11 AM
Feb 2017

You wouldn't be impressed with the average worker in this state. Boeing came here for a reason. I betted my family, after all the anti union commercials that were run here, that they would vote against it.

Got me an extra 5 bucks..woohoo.

P.S. I'm moving soon......

riversedge

(70,174 posts)
42. But lots of bad ticks!! and deer wasting disease, and bad roads, and vile Republicans. The
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 09:54 AM
Feb 2017

list goes on and on.

tblue37

(65,269 posts)
27. Like "liberal" and "feminist" the word "union" has been degraded by decades of right wing
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:43 AM
Feb 2017

propaganda.

 

nikibatts

(2,198 posts)
32. It means to them that minorities and women will get protections they otherwise would not.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 04:51 AM
Feb 2017

The company can discriminate as much as they want to and their health care and other benefits will be shit.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
8. I'm guessing they would be afraid Boeing would just move
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:19 AM
Feb 2017

again to another state. It is going to be very difficult to unionize in great numbers in this country anymore, companies can always go overseas.

ancianita

(36,009 posts)
38. That's always been the fear of workers: unionize, negotiate, strike or live by management terms.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 08:02 AM
Feb 2017

You hit it on the head. This isn't about how decades of anti-union propaganda have been internalized. It's about the reality of other global labor pools.

But capitalists know their days are numbered, because eventually the entire global population will have the leverage to force profiteers' compromise, unless they are enslaved by force.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
9. I lived in SC for years, and still have friends that live there
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:19 AM
Feb 2017

Unions are never looked at for the positive aspects they brought to workers. They're always seen as mobbed up, take advantage of the little guy, worthless bureaucracy.

mountain grammy

(26,605 posts)
11. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:23 AM
Feb 2017

Old union saying.. describes so many Americans.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
12. Right or wrong, workers believe Boeing would not have moved to SC if it were more accepting
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:24 AM
Feb 2017

of unions. Lots of workers have decent jobs with Boeing, BMW, etc., in SC and similar places and are afraid of losing them. That's a lot of votes against unions, but not really surprising in the South. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
61. Boeing already had some pretty deep sunk costs in Charleston
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:49 PM
Feb 2017

The 787 supply chain meltdown necessitated that Boeing takeover the Alenia and Vought joint-venture in Charleston. With that investment made the case for pressing on in Charleston was strong regardless of the labor situation.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
72. Subsidies
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 11:30 PM
Feb 2017

Subsidies dictated most of the 787's supply chain decisions, which led to a total meltdown in the program that may never turn a profit.

meadowlander

(4,393 posts)
14. Union Boeing workers in Washington State overwhelmingly suggest
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:53 AM
Feb 2017

that Boeing workers in South Carolina get stuffed.

How many of these scabs happily voted for Trump so that he would stop Mexicans from stealing "their" job but are more than happy to undercut working conditions for their fellow Americans?

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
47. Get what you are saying, but are the people who were making nothing on dirt farms in SC
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 10:46 AM
Feb 2017

supposed to forgo much better jobs so that someone in Washington state keeps even a better paying job?

I really don't consider someone who was previously living in poverty with no hope, a "scab" because they take a much better job. Now, voting for Trump and being a racist/bigot, is another story.

meadowlander

(4,393 posts)
59. There are dirt farms in Washington too.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:19 PM
Feb 2017

And aerospace tech workers are not former dirt farmers.

They are supposed to unionize in solidarity with their fellow workers because that is the only way that progress on labor standards is made or maintained.

And sorry, refusing to unionize so that you can attract jobs that would otherwise have gone to other people who are trying to stand up for themselves, their rights and their working conditions is kind of the definition of a scab.

Doing so while bitching about "the Mexicans" is also the definition of hypocrisy.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
60. Sorry, I do not consider someone in rural SC taking a decent job a "scab."
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:44 PM
Feb 2017

Similarly, I don't consider a poor Mexican dirt farmer who goes to work in an Audi plant at $8/hour a "scab." Feel the same about a Vietnamese, previously working in a rice paddy, who takes a factory job. I guess they should all go hungry and penalize their families so that it doesn't affect someone with a really good job in Michigan, Washington, etc. That's kind of a greedy position, don't you think? I have no problem with workers unionizing -- in fact, it is usually a good idea -- but the few remaining union workers in manufacturing shouldn't view those who aren't as "scabs."

BigDemVoter

(4,149 posts)
18. I'm a nurse in California.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:20 AM
Feb 2017

Those southern, non-union, nurses ALWAYS just flock to California to break strikes for very high pay. They always say, "We came because of the patients!"

Bullshit to that.

 

demtenjeep

(31,997 posts)
19. stupid. they screwed themselves
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:27 AM
Feb 2017

Boeing Wichita got paid major more money because they combined with Seattle's union . Cost of living is way much higher in Seattle so Wichita benefitted. Father -in -law worked boeing for years. Was able to retire 50 with two new cars and a brand new house and they live very comfortably My father went the BeachCraft route. Made half as much worked until the day he died at 65

when every union member sticks together they benefit much stronger

cstanleytech

(26,273 posts)
22. If more people actually studied history then Trump would not have risen to power.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:40 AM
Feb 2017

People dont though so you get assholes like Trump in office every now and then and you get people that vote no to unions even though by and large unions usually benefit the workers greatly with things like higher pay and better benefits.
Sure at times the unions mess up but thats very..........verrrrrry rare.
In fact its so rare that you probably have better odds at winning the powerball than a union actually causing a company to go under.

Bengus81

(6,930 posts)
50. Yep...and now Boeing LONG GONE from Wichita............
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 11:54 AM
Feb 2017

After getting tax breaks for decades and decades and licking their boots they blew town for SC where they knew they could get planes built for non-union wages.

Flipping burgers for a bit of nothing is one thing,building commercial aircraft that sell for HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of $$$ should earn you a very good living for doing quality work,showing up on time and being productive. Boeing had NO problem paying those wages for decades in Wichita in return for aircraft QUALITY aircraft that were cranked out by the thousands and were the best of the best. The along came the 80's and union busting became a fad with Republicans.

Those people in SC are just flat out STUPID.

RealityChik

(382 posts)
73. Vote FOR union? Expect Boeing retaliation...
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:05 AM
Feb 2017

Guaranteed. For their own long-term good, they did the right thing. Boeing Corporate never forgets. What a shame.

After one of the meanest, nastiest brawl of a Machinist strike in the late 1990s, Boeing shut down the corporate office and moved it to Chicago in early 2000s. Then proceeded to build the N Carolina plant and lay off hundreds of Seattle workers. Hired a bunch of inexperienced non-union workers that screwed up a s*tload of airplanes and caused massive, expensive delays.

They had to pay huge incentive bonuses to a bunch of Seattle workers to relocate to N Carolina for a couple of years to cover their asses.

After another brutal strike in Seattle area, Boeing moved Defense Headquarters to DC. After a prolonged strike by the Engineer's union, Boeing laid lots of them off and started hiring non-union temp contractors from China and India.

Boeing used to be an incredible company to work for in Puget Sound area WA, but after CEO Mulahly left for Ford, it changed drastically.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
23. If they called it an "Employee Benefits Assurance Organization" maybe they'd go further...?
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:40 AM
Feb 2017

Ya just can't fix stupid with some people.

Your union is what you make it.

Pathetic and sad.

C Moon

(12,212 posts)
29. I worked at a company that went on strike in Orange County California.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 03:39 AM
Feb 2017

The night before the strike, we met at the union hall, and voted to strike.
But when morning came, only two of us (out of a couple hundred) were out on the picket line.

I spent September through January with one other person (finally another joined us later) on the picket line. Because it was Orange County California, none of the patrons gave a crap about the picket line, they crossed to shop in droves. We got lots of dirty looks from them.

The nice part was, that because the union appreciated us, and no one else walked, they paid us more money. So I ended up making more picketing than if I'd worked inside the store.

In the end, the union won and the employees kept their benefits. I was only able to work with my "fellow employees" a few weeks after the strike, before I decided to quit.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
52. It's part of democracy. The people voted. Democracy is not perfect
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:11 PM
Feb 2017

The workers may find out they made a wrong choice or they may be fine with it. Time will tell. I would have voted for union but I believe in the good they do.

 

louis c

(8,652 posts)
36. I'm an organizer and an agent
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 07:52 AM
Feb 2017

In one of the forums I attended, it was explained to me that the South has always been anti-union because of the word.

I'm from Massachusetts, so I, too find it hard to believe, but it stems from the Civil War. Union means, to Southerners, the army that devastated their land. It was explained to me that it's subliminal. Most workers don't even recognize it, but the word "Union" conjures up very negative feelings to many in the South. That negativity has been passed on for generations, and even though they don't realize it, it goes back to the Civil War.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
37. I wish I was surprised.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 07:56 AM
Feb 2017

You know, I try to resist the demons in my head that say "let Dixie burn in hell." After all, many of the finest liberals, ones that take hits and endorse terrors that many in New York and California would faint at even thinking of, are in Dixie. I also know that Dixie were ever to get "independence" that the collateral damage would be epic. The hammer would drop on Blacks, Browns, and any white person who is slightly to the left of Jefferson Davis.

However, seeing South Carolina act in a way that was more predictable than a bad television script does a lot to keep frost in my heart cold. After all, if all bowling wanted was desperate workers and she planned to put a factory in, why not Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania you know, the former "blue wall" states that voted against Hillary because they wanted their old jobs back. I'll bet hard currency but the governors of any of the aforementioned states would've done severe political gymnastics if Boeing had hinted at going there.

But no, they have to go for a labor was even cheaper, and where people already used to sacrificing their health, their integrity, even their very soul to make rich white men happy. They want to make sure that they were in a climate where Klansmen would hang union people. Well nowadays they don't actually have the honesty to hang people, they just use second amendment remedies, made easy by the fact that the NRA makes it easier for you to buy a handgun than it does to buy medicine.

Let's also not forget that in Dixie, the churches don't even bother sneaking through the back door of politics, they preach it from the pulpit. Heaven forbid that poor people have any recourse for their bread or their education than the church, whose plan all along is to make sure that people are cattle going neatly along the track from the calves pen to the slaughterhouse. The church was a friend of slave masters in the antebellum era, they are still her allies now. And heaven knows what the church did to clearly demonize the unions.

So South Carolina, so rest of Dixie, I am sincerely trying not to hate you, that is bad enough that you submit yourselves to a subservience that many in the so-called "Third World" refuse to take. No, because you like to force your conditions on everyone around you. It's one thing to be an addict, it's another to force the consequences of that addiction onto your whole damn family, even those you wind up depending on the bail your ass out of jail have to time. And don't you dare go ahead and talk about Southern pride, when you know damn well that Boeing came to you for cheap exploitable labor. You also know that you're just a halfway house until the day Boeing gets the ability to move to Mexico or China. When they do move to Mexico in China, all these pats on the head and complements they give you are not being union will wind up being forgotten, especially as once they go to Mexico and China, they will not even need to pretend to respect anyone.

And of course, the preachers of the big churches will still make their money, making millions off of your pennies. What's worse, you will still do everything you can to sabotage her own self-interest, is your culture gives you a sense of arrogance; you may start, you may not be able for the doctor, but you got that pride about the fact you let yourself get work harder than a horse on its way to the glue factory. And worse, you're arrogant about that fact.

I do hope that the South never gets its way and becomes the old Confederate states of America. Again, I say this because the collateral damage would be ugly. When the slave markets get opened up, I, unlike many New York and California, will not just tsk tsk and get my self-righteous jollies while watching CNN at the Starbucks. But the sad fact is, I can understand why they would, at the rate we're going, we might very well have to consider whether or not this separation of cultures will lead to the eventual divorce.

I'll tell you one thing the, if it comes to that, even with all the Dixie flags you want over Florida, a Florida is sustained by Northern investment. If there is a divorce, I will fully support taking Florida to the cleaners, as if the state was some husband that got caught cheating with three mistresses in his wife's bed.

Gamecock Lefty

(700 posts)
39. Not surprised . . .
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 09:17 AM
Feb 2017

Every time I go home to Charleston (I live in St Louis now) I hear anti-union comments from my mostly-Republican family. It’s amazing how they trash something they know nothing about.

Then I ask them that if companies move to non-union states where they can pay their workers less then that means their products are saving money and they’ll certainly pass that savings onto customers, right? Crickets.

Saving costs by hiring non-union workers = padding the pockets of the corporate bigwigs. Plain and simple.

muntrv

(14,505 posts)
44. Instead of union, they should call themselves
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 10:10 AM
Feb 2017

a confederacy of workers. Many southerners hate the word union.

turbinetree

(24,688 posts)
45. And then they want to send there kids to college and make there life better...........
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 10:11 AM
Feb 2017

with less than 10 dollars an hour compared to a union worker.

And these people don't understand, that your social security , yes your social security is based on your "total income" while you work for through out your years making a company billions while you make only thousands.
So if you are making 10 dollars less and then you want to collect "your" social security it will and does reflect on your benefit amount that you will get each month, that is a cold hard fact.....................they are stupid






"Wages were a key issue in the vote. The union says South Carolina workers earn about $10 an hour less than union members at Boeing's Washington state plants."


pangaia

(24,324 posts)
46. I have a middle-distance relationship with Boeing.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 10:42 AM
Feb 2017

A close friend of mine was an aerospace engineer with a Boeing subsidiary in SoCal for 25 years. He is a genius-- worked on space shuttle engines, etc etc...

A number of years ago Boeing started cutting his retirement package,,, drip, drip, drip.

In 2014, less than a year after having a child he was laid off.They moved to the Bay area to live with his mother while he job hunted. His wife had a brain tumor.. surgery and is ok.

After 1 year Boeing offered him a job. in.... fucking Huntville, AL !!!! Greatly reduced salary. He had to take it. This was in summer of 2015. They refused to even help pay for moving expense - which, after a couple trips to find a place to live, interview, move his family, furniture and two cars,etc etc., cost almost $20,000 !

There is no guarantee at all of how long he will keep the job and the management, according to him, are just a bunch of shits. He hates it.. The ONLY good thing, is that he still has health insurance.

Fuck Boeing.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
48. People also forget it isn't just a global economy,
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 11:35 AM
Feb 2017

it's an individual economy for each state. Businesses shop around each state for the best tax breaks and cheapest labor. States compete with each other. Being a state that is 'right to work' makes that state more desirable to industry. Sad but true.

onenote

(42,660 posts)
49. Suggestions in this thread that anti-union sentiment is a uniquely Southern thing are quite mistaken
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 11:48 AM
Feb 2017

Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I don't understand why workers reject the opportunity to unionize. But I also don't pretend that this is a uniquely "southern" thing. Thirty seconds on Google turned up relatively recent examples of workers rejecting unionization in a wide range of states, including Delaware, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon.

Yes, southern states have historically been less welcoming to unions and have a lower percentage of unionized employees. But other states are beginning to catch up (in a negative way). Kentucky has a higher percentage of union workers than Wisconsin or Colorado.

Like I said, I don't get it.

lunasun

(21,646 posts)
53. Worse a heavy Union state like mine where some who have Union great $ &benefits jobs
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:36 PM
Feb 2017

constantly bashing their union with RW and corporate talking points and wish they didn't have to be part of the Union
I don't think they get it

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
58. No, it isn't exclusive to the south at all.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 02:09 PM
Feb 2017

I am in a union, which represents a group of public employees here in MD. We have the provision where everybody pays fees out of their check for the union activities, but if you join, you pay just a bit more. I hear nothing but complaints from my coworkers about "what has the union done for me lately?" Well, they got us a raise last year. Not much but it was something. The unions got the governor to remove the ridiculous "wellness" program (which was "voluntary" but was actually coercive- you pay more for you insurance if you do not participate).

It's irritating.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
64. I have seen a few failed drives in California from the management side
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 03:06 PM
Feb 2017

In one case the organizers were pretty overtly racist as they tried to organize a group that was probably 40% Hispanic. It was a huge relief when the vote went about 70% against if only because we didn't want Gangs of New York being reenacted in our warehouse.

In another the people pushing organization were so aggressive and obnoxious that staff were complaining about harassment and particularly their demands for money. Their martyring of people who had been fired for theft was also puzzling. It went about 60% against.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
71. Easy to understand.
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 09:43 PM
Feb 2017

Unions supports Democrats through campaign donations.

Democrats are viewed as being for Abortion, Gun Control, Atheism, LGBT rights.

So as friends have told me, as long as Democrats support these social issues, they refuse to support Democrats in any way, shape, fashion, or form, and this means no support for Unions.

Social issues still "trump" economic justice.

dlk

(11,537 posts)
51. When There Are No Unions, There Are No Good Paying Jobs
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:04 PM
Feb 2017

The conservative propaganda war on unions has been very successful. Too many Americans are unaware of the history of labor in this country and how workers were abused and even murdered, so the company owners could be as rich as sultans. Are unions perfect? Of course not but neither are corporations. It's the tension between the two that creates a better workplace.

This issue is much like the many Americans who were strongly against Obamacare, until millions had actually health insurance. Now they love it. It's the same with unions. If workers knew how much better their lives could be, they would quicky change their anti-union votes. As it stands, they've been conned into pitying the poor billionaires.

 

otohara

(24,135 posts)
57. Anti-Union Propaganda Works
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 01:29 PM
Feb 2017

I have an acquaintance who works or huge HR organization - they have regular training sessions for employers to squash any talk of unions by employees.

logosoco

(3,208 posts)
63. Many of the people in the south do still seem to have that historical
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 03:03 PM
Feb 2017

bent toward thinking that whatever the rich white man wants to do with the labor force and the economy is worth fighting for.

TNLib

(1,819 posts)
68. Yep!
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 05:25 PM
Feb 2017

Lived in Central Florida and now TN. But whites in the south almost have a slave mindset like they're not deserving of anything better. Guilt and shame is what is preached in the Southern Baptist Churches. My mother-in law acts ashamed and irritated if we spend more than $20 on her for Christmas, like we're putting on airs or something. It's just really bizarre.

Judi Lynn

(160,501 posts)
66. After failed union vote, Boeing hails Trump visit to plant
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 04:24 PM
Feb 2017

After failed union vote, Boeing hails Trump visit to plant
Meg Kinnard, Associated Press Updated 1:39 pm, Thursday, February 16, 2017


COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — Boeing workers' overwhelming anti-union vote at the aviation giant's 787 Dreamliner plant in South Carolina is a big victory for Southern politicians and business leaders who have lured manufacturing jobs to the region on the promise of keeping unions out.

It's also a win for the company that will host President Donald Trump at its North Charleston facilities Friday.

Nearly 3,000 workers were eligible to vote Wednesday on representation by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace workers. According to Boeing, nearly 74 percent of the more than 2,800 votes cast were against representation.

It was a massive victory for union opponents, in line with longstanding Southern aversion to collective bargaining. At 1.6 percent, South Carolina maintains the lowest percentage of unionized workers in the country, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Its neighboring states, North Carolina and Georgia, hover slightly higher but still in low territory, at 3.0 and 3.9 percent, respectively.

More:
http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/After-failed-union-vote-Boeing-hails-Trump-visit-10938119.php

MichMan

(11,899 posts)
69. Surprised they even held a vote
Thu Feb 16, 2017, 07:47 PM
Feb 2017

The unions usually don't demand elections unless they expect to have a very good chance of winning. As lopsided as this vote was, I'm really surprised that they couldn't gauge their level of support any better.

These types of losses make for bad PR

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
74. of course
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 06:40 AM
Feb 2017

I should'nt say this ,but I thank my great-grandparents everyday for leaving the south.Education matters!
Ignorance begets social injustice-God,this is depressing

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