Boeing workers in South Carolina overwhelmingly reject union
Source: CNN Money
Boeing's newest plant in South Carolina will remain nonunion after workers there overwhelmingly rejected an effort by the Machinist union to organize the plant.
According to a company statement, more than 2,000 of the nearly 3,000 Boeing workers at the plant eligible to vote in the closely watched election voted against the union, and only a bit more than 700 members voted yes.
"We will continue to move forward as one team," said Joan Robinson-Berry, vice president and general manager of Boeing South Carolina. "We have a bright future ahead of us and are eager to focus on the accomplishments of this great team."
Manufacturers have been drawn to the South because the region is strongly anti-union. Less than 2% of South Carolina workers are union members, the lowest unionization rate in the nation. Boeing (BA) spent billions to open its North Charleston plant, arguing it needs to assure customers who buy the 787 Dreamliner, which is built there, that the plant wouldn't go on strike.
Read more: http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/15/news/companies/boeing-union-vote/index.html
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)A strong union can be a very good thing for the workers after all, true sometimes a union screws up but its rare and more often than not they prevent an employer from screwing the workers over.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)"Say, buckin' rivets 'er flipping burgers. It's all the same to me!"
diva77
(7,638 posts)cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)and just as clearly the current rules are not working to prevent this otherwise they wouldnt have done it.
Clearly its time to increase the amount for the fines for companies and abolish any fine cap and it should come out of the pay from upper level executives like the CEO and the VPs but thats not going to happen which is to bad because if it was coming out of their pocket they might stop this shit.
diva77
(7,638 posts)cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)made them fearful of losing their jobs.
diva77
(7,638 posts)raccoon
(31,106 posts)for that matter) are rabidly anti-union!
It is infuriating. That is one reason the South lags in income and wages and...just about everything else, except spouse-beating, divorce, number of smokers (I'm guessing on this one), etc....
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)that Boeing moved there in the first place.
starshine00
(531 posts)They make it damn clear they will never be unionized and the unwritten understanding is that if you try to start a union there they will fire you. They have it posted in the case w/ certifications and safety notices when you enter the building and the last line is always "Therefore this and such business will NEVER need a union" and signed below by all the head honchos. I admire the bravery of the people who tried to unionize Boeing, that is amazing...clearly the people who voted against it were afraid for their jobs.
Corgigal
(9,291 posts)You wouldn't be impressed with the average worker in this state. Boeing came here for a reason. I betted my family, after all the anti union commercials that were run here, that they would vote against it.
Got me an extra 5 bucks..woohoo.
P.S. I'm moving soon......
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)riversedge
(70,174 posts)cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)riversedge
(70,174 posts)list goes on and on.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)elmac
(4,642 posts)and strongly brainless.
someone oughta check the water there.
mac56
(17,566 posts)Gore1FL
(21,116 posts)tblue37
(65,269 posts)propaganda.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)The company can discriminate as much as they want to and their health care and other benefits will be shit.
AJT
(5,240 posts)again to another state. It is going to be very difficult to unionize in great numbers in this country anymore, companies can always go overseas.
ancianita
(36,009 posts)You hit it on the head. This isn't about how decades of anti-union propaganda have been internalized. It's about the reality of other global labor pools.
But capitalists know their days are numbered, because eventually the entire global population will have the leverage to force profiteers' compromise, unless they are enslaved by force.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Unions are never looked at for the positive aspects they brought to workers. They're always seen as mobbed up, take advantage of the little guy, worthless bureaucracy.
mountain grammy
(26,605 posts)Old union saying.. describes so many Americans.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)of unions. Lots of workers have decent jobs with Boeing, BMW, etc., in SC and similar places and are afraid of losing them. That's a lot of votes against unions, but not really surprising in the South. Shouldn't be that way, but it is.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)The 787 supply chain meltdown necessitated that Boeing takeover the Alenia and Vought joint-venture in Charleston. With that investment made the case for pressing on in Charleston was strong regardless of the labor situation.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Subsidies dictated most of the 787's supply chain decisions, which led to a total meltdown in the program that may never turn a profit.
meadowlander
(4,393 posts)that Boeing workers in South Carolina get stuffed.
How many of these scabs happily voted for Trump so that he would stop Mexicans from stealing "their" job but are more than happy to undercut working conditions for their fellow Americans?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)supposed to forgo much better jobs so that someone in Washington state keeps even a better paying job?
I really don't consider someone who was previously living in poverty with no hope, a "scab" because they take a much better job. Now, voting for Trump and being a racist/bigot, is another story.
meadowlander
(4,393 posts)And aerospace tech workers are not former dirt farmers.
They are supposed to unionize in solidarity with their fellow workers because that is the only way that progress on labor standards is made or maintained.
And sorry, refusing to unionize so that you can attract jobs that would otherwise have gone to other people who are trying to stand up for themselves, their rights and their working conditions is kind of the definition of a scab.
Doing so while bitching about "the Mexicans" is also the definition of hypocrisy.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Similarly, I don't consider a poor Mexican dirt farmer who goes to work in an Audi plant at $8/hour a "scab." Feel the same about a Vietnamese, previously working in a rice paddy, who takes a factory job. I guess they should all go hungry and penalize their families so that it doesn't affect someone with a really good job in Michigan, Washington, etc. That's kind of a greedy position, don't you think? I have no problem with workers unionizing -- in fact, it is usually a good idea -- but the few remaining union workers in manufacturing shouldn't view those who aren't as "scabs."
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)BigDemVoter
(4,149 posts)Those southern, non-union, nurses ALWAYS just flock to California to break strikes for very high pay. They always say, "We came because of the patients!"
Bullshit to that.
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)Boeing Wichita got paid major more money because they combined with Seattle's union . Cost of living is way much higher in Seattle so Wichita benefitted. Father -in -law worked boeing for years. Was able to retire 50 with two new cars and a brand new house and they live very comfortably My father went the BeachCraft route. Made half as much worked until the day he died at 65
when every union member sticks together they benefit much stronger
cilla4progress
(24,723 posts)UNION!
People need to know their history. SMH.
cstanleytech
(26,273 posts)People dont though so you get assholes like Trump in office every now and then and you get people that vote no to unions even though by and large unions usually benefit the workers greatly with things like higher pay and better benefits.
Sure at times the unions mess up but thats very..........verrrrrry rare.
In fact its so rare that you probably have better odds at winning the powerball than a union actually causing a company to go under.
Bengus81
(6,930 posts)After getting tax breaks for decades and decades and licking their boots they blew town for SC where they knew they could get planes built for non-union wages.
Flipping burgers for a bit of nothing is one thing,building commercial aircraft that sell for HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of $$$ should earn you a very good living for doing quality work,showing up on time and being productive. Boeing had NO problem paying those wages for decades in Wichita in return for aircraft QUALITY aircraft that were cranked out by the thousands and were the best of the best. The along came the 80's and union busting became a fad with Republicans.
Those people in SC are just flat out STUPID.
RealityChik
(382 posts)Guaranteed. For their own long-term good, they did the right thing. Boeing Corporate never forgets. What a shame.
After one of the meanest, nastiest brawl of a Machinist strike in the late 1990s, Boeing shut down the corporate office and moved it to Chicago in early 2000s. Then proceeded to build the N Carolina plant and lay off hundreds of Seattle workers. Hired a bunch of inexperienced non-union workers that screwed up a s*tload of airplanes and caused massive, expensive delays.
They had to pay huge incentive bonuses to a bunch of Seattle workers to relocate to N Carolina for a couple of years to cover their asses.
After another brutal strike in Seattle area, Boeing moved Defense Headquarters to DC. After a prolonged strike by the Engineer's union, Boeing laid lots of them off and started hiring non-union temp contractors from China and India.
Boeing used to be an incredible company to work for in Puget Sound area WA, but after CEO Mulahly left for Ford, it changed drastically.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Ya just can't fix stupid with some people.
Your union is what you make it.
Pathetic and sad.
moondust
(19,966 posts)Union busters?
TeamPooka
(24,216 posts)iluvtennis
(19,843 posts)C Moon
(12,212 posts)The night before the strike, we met at the union hall, and voted to strike.
But when morning came, only two of us (out of a couple hundred) were out on the picket line.
I spent September through January with one other person (finally another joined us later) on the picket line. Because it was Orange County California, none of the patrons gave a crap about the picket line, they crossed to shop in droves. We got lots of dirty looks from them.
The nice part was, that because the union appreciated us, and no one else walked, they paid us more money. So I ended up making more picketing than if I'd worked inside the store.
In the end, the union won and the employees kept their benefits. I was only able to work with my "fellow employees" a few weeks after the strike, before I decided to quit.
snort
(2,334 posts)yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)The workers may find out they made a wrong choice or they may be fine with it. Time will tell. I would have voted for union but I believe in the good they do.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)louis c
(8,652 posts)In one of the forums I attended, it was explained to me that the South has always been anti-union because of the word.
I'm from Massachusetts, so I, too find it hard to believe, but it stems from the Civil War. Union means, to Southerners, the army that devastated their land. It was explained to me that it's subliminal. Most workers don't even recognize it, but the word "Union" conjures up very negative feelings to many in the South. That negativity has been passed on for generations, and even though they don't realize it, it goes back to the Civil War.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)You know, I try to resist the demons in my head that say "let Dixie burn in hell." After all, many of the finest liberals, ones that take hits and endorse terrors that many in New York and California would faint at even thinking of, are in Dixie. I also know that Dixie were ever to get "independence" that the collateral damage would be epic. The hammer would drop on Blacks, Browns, and any white person who is slightly to the left of Jefferson Davis.
However, seeing South Carolina act in a way that was more predictable than a bad television script does a lot to keep frost in my heart cold. After all, if all bowling wanted was desperate workers and she planned to put a factory in, why not Ohio, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania you know, the former "blue wall" states that voted against Hillary because they wanted their old jobs back. I'll bet hard currency but the governors of any of the aforementioned states would've done severe political gymnastics if Boeing had hinted at going there.
But no, they have to go for a labor was even cheaper, and where people already used to sacrificing their health, their integrity, even their very soul to make rich white men happy. They want to make sure that they were in a climate where Klansmen would hang union people. Well nowadays they don't actually have the honesty to hang people, they just use second amendment remedies, made easy by the fact that the NRA makes it easier for you to buy a handgun than it does to buy medicine.
Let's also not forget that in Dixie, the churches don't even bother sneaking through the back door of politics, they preach it from the pulpit. Heaven forbid that poor people have any recourse for their bread or their education than the church, whose plan all along is to make sure that people are cattle going neatly along the track from the calves pen to the slaughterhouse. The church was a friend of slave masters in the antebellum era, they are still her allies now. And heaven knows what the church did to clearly demonize the unions.
So South Carolina, so rest of Dixie, I am sincerely trying not to hate you, that is bad enough that you submit yourselves to a subservience that many in the so-called "Third World" refuse to take. No, because you like to force your conditions on everyone around you. It's one thing to be an addict, it's another to force the consequences of that addiction onto your whole damn family, even those you wind up depending on the bail your ass out of jail have to time. And don't you dare go ahead and talk about Southern pride, when you know damn well that Boeing came to you for cheap exploitable labor. You also know that you're just a halfway house until the day Boeing gets the ability to move to Mexico or China. When they do move to Mexico in China, all these pats on the head and complements they give you are not being union will wind up being forgotten, especially as once they go to Mexico and China, they will not even need to pretend to respect anyone.
And of course, the preachers of the big churches will still make their money, making millions off of your pennies. What's worse, you will still do everything you can to sabotage her own self-interest, is your culture gives you a sense of arrogance; you may start, you may not be able for the doctor, but you got that pride about the fact you let yourself get work harder than a horse on its way to the glue factory. And worse, you're arrogant about that fact.
I do hope that the South never gets its way and becomes the old Confederate states of America. Again, I say this because the collateral damage would be ugly. When the slave markets get opened up, I, unlike many New York and California, will not just tsk tsk and get my self-righteous jollies while watching CNN at the Starbucks. But the sad fact is, I can understand why they would, at the rate we're going, we might very well have to consider whether or not this separation of cultures will lead to the eventual divorce.
I'll tell you one thing the, if it comes to that, even with all the Dixie flags you want over Florida, a Florida is sustained by Northern investment. If there is a divorce, I will fully support taking Florida to the cleaners, as if the state was some husband that got caught cheating with three mistresses in his wife's bed.
Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)Every time I go home to Charleston (I live in St Louis now) I hear anti-union comments from my mostly-Republican family. Its amazing how they trash something they know nothing about.
Then I ask them that if companies move to non-union states where they can pay their workers less then that means their products are saving money and theyll certainly pass that savings onto customers, right? Crickets.
Saving costs by hiring non-union workers = padding the pockets of the corporate bigwigs. Plain and simple.
muntrv
(14,505 posts)a confederacy of workers. Many southerners hate the word union.
turbinetree
(24,688 posts)with less than 10 dollars an hour compared to a union worker.
And these people don't understand, that your social security , yes your social security is based on your "total income" while you work for through out your years making a company billions while you make only thousands.
So if you are making 10 dollars less and then you want to collect "your" social security it will and does reflect on your benefit amount that you will get each month, that is a cold hard fact.....................they are stupid
"Wages were a key issue in the vote. The union says South Carolina workers earn about $10 an hour less than union members at Boeing's Washington state plants."
pangaia
(24,324 posts)A close friend of mine was an aerospace engineer with a Boeing subsidiary in SoCal for 25 years. He is a genius-- worked on space shuttle engines, etc etc...
A number of years ago Boeing started cutting his retirement package,,, drip, drip, drip.
In 2014, less than a year after having a child he was laid off.They moved to the Bay area to live with his mother while he job hunted. His wife had a brain tumor.. surgery and is ok.
After 1 year Boeing offered him a job. in.... fucking Huntville, AL !!!! Greatly reduced salary. He had to take it. This was in summer of 2015. They refused to even help pay for moving expense - which, after a couple trips to find a place to live, interview, move his family, furniture and two cars,etc etc., cost almost $20,000 !
There is no guarantee at all of how long he will keep the job and the management, according to him, are just a bunch of shits. He hates it.. The ONLY good thing, is that he still has health insurance.
Fuck Boeing.
AJT
(5,240 posts)it's an individual economy for each state. Businesses shop around each state for the best tax breaks and cheapest labor. States compete with each other. Being a state that is 'right to work' makes that state more desirable to industry. Sad but true.
onenote
(42,660 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 16, 2017, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)
I don't understand why workers reject the opportunity to unionize. But I also don't pretend that this is a uniquely "southern" thing. Thirty seconds on Google turned up relatively recent examples of workers rejecting unionization in a wide range of states, including Delaware, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon.
Yes, southern states have historically been less welcoming to unions and have a lower percentage of unionized employees. But other states are beginning to catch up (in a negative way). Kentucky has a higher percentage of union workers than Wisconsin or Colorado.
Like I said, I don't get it.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)constantly bashing their union with RW and corporate talking points and wish they didn't have to be part of the Union
I don't think they get it
alarimer
(16,245 posts)I am in a union, which represents a group of public employees here in MD. We have the provision where everybody pays fees out of their check for the union activities, but if you join, you pay just a bit more. I hear nothing but complaints from my coworkers about "what has the union done for me lately?" Well, they got us a raise last year. Not much but it was something. The unions got the governor to remove the ridiculous "wellness" program (which was "voluntary" but was actually coercive- you pay more for you insurance if you do not participate).
It's irritating.
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)In one case the organizers were pretty overtly racist as they tried to organize a group that was probably 40% Hispanic. It was a huge relief when the vote went about 70% against if only because we didn't want Gangs of New York being reenacted in our warehouse.
In another the people pushing organization were so aggressive and obnoxious that staff were complaining about harassment and particularly their demands for money. Their martyring of people who had been fired for theft was also puzzling. It went about 60% against.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Unions supports Democrats through campaign donations.
Democrats are viewed as being for Abortion, Gun Control, Atheism, LGBT rights.
So as friends have told me, as long as Democrats support these social issues, they refuse to support Democrats in any way, shape, fashion, or form, and this means no support for Unions.
Social issues still "trump" economic justice.
dlk
(11,537 posts)The conservative propaganda war on unions has been very successful. Too many Americans are unaware of the history of labor in this country and how workers were abused and even murdered, so the company owners could be as rich as sultans. Are unions perfect? Of course not but neither are corporations. It's the tension between the two that creates a better workplace.
This issue is much like the many Americans who were strongly against Obamacare, until millions had actually health insurance. Now they love it. It's the same with unions. If workers knew how much better their lives could be, they would quicky change their anti-union votes. As it stands, they've been conned into pitying the poor billionaires.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)SC, you're killing me
heaven05
(18,124 posts)definitely 2000 brainwashed idiots....
otohara
(24,135 posts)I have an acquaintance who works or huge HR organization - they have regular training sessions for employers to squash any talk of unions by employees.
logosoco
(3,208 posts)bent toward thinking that whatever the rich white man wants to do with the labor force and the economy is worth fighting for.
Lived in Central Florida and now TN. But whites in the south almost have a slave mindset like they're not deserving of anything better. Guilt and shame is what is preached in the Southern Baptist Churches. My mother-in law acts ashamed and irritated if we spend more than $20 on her for Christmas, like we're putting on airs or something. It's just really bizarre.
Judi Lynn
(160,501 posts)After failed union vote, Boeing hails Trump visit to plant
Meg Kinnard, Associated Press Updated 1:39 pm, Thursday, February 16, 2017
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) Boeing workers' overwhelming anti-union vote at the aviation giant's 787 Dreamliner plant in South Carolina is a big victory for Southern politicians and business leaders who have lured manufacturing jobs to the region on the promise of keeping unions out.
It's also a win for the company that will host President Donald Trump at its North Charleston facilities Friday.
Nearly 3,000 workers were eligible to vote Wednesday on representation by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace workers. According to Boeing, nearly 74 percent of the more than 2,800 votes cast were against representation.
It was a massive victory for union opponents, in line with longstanding Southern aversion to collective bargaining. At 1.6 percent, South Carolina maintains the lowest percentage of unionized workers in the country, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Its neighboring states, North Carolina and Georgia, hover slightly higher but still in low territory, at 3.0 and 3.9 percent, respectively.
More:
http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/After-failed-union-vote-Boeing-hails-Trump-visit-10938119.php
MichMan
(11,899 posts)The unions usually don't demand elections unless they expect to have a very good chance of winning. As lopsided as this vote was, I'm really surprised that they couldn't gauge their level of support any better.
These types of losses make for bad PR
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)I should'nt say this ,but I thank my great-grandparents everyday for leaving the south.Education matters!
Ignorance begets social injustice-God,this is depressing