Caseworker on Powell 911 tapes: 'He blew up the house and the kids'

[Kennah]

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/crime-law/caseworker-powell-911-tapes-he-blew-house-and-kids/nHXSf/

911 dispatcher: “All right, we’ll have somebody look for you there.”
Caseworker: “OK, how long will it be?”
911: “I don’t know, ma’am. They have to respond to emergencies, life-threatening situations first. The first available deputy –“
Caseworker: “Well this could be life-threatening. He went to court on Wednesday – he didn’t get his kids back – and this is really – I’m afraid for their lives.”

**************************************************

Seems the caseworker tried to get the police out there, but the 9-1-1 dispatcher just didn't appear to treat the matter seriously.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. That dispatcher should be in trouble...

But even if the cops and paramedics and fire crews had been there quickly, it wouldn't have made any difference.

They were all dead in a matter of minutes.

Horrifying what he did to his children.

[Kennah]

2. Very true

I guess I am just defensive of the caseworker, since I expect she'll get dragged through the mud.

[LisaL]

4. No, the call itself lasted nearly 7 minutes, and that was

before the fire, and all she was promised was a first available deputy, and who knows when that deputy became available. This first call didn't appear to be treated as an emergency.

[truthisfreedom]

3. Very difficult read. I'm so sad for these kids. Totally insane.

Should not have happened. The supervisor should have been a big burly guy who could have pushed back and kept the door open.

[LisaL]

5. As was eloquently

explained by police the other day, the supervisors are there simply to observe the visitation and its not their job to rescue the kids.

[Justice wanted]

6. It is freakin amazing how SOME domestic situations are Life-threatening to 911 and Others are not.

[ScottLand]

7. So tragic.

[qanda]

8. There is so much wrong with this picture!!!

I thought the situation was more like Josh Powell wouldn't let the caseworker in and she went to make a call and then he immediately blew up the house. I didn't know he had a whole 1/2 hour to kill those kids! This is unbelievable!!! Why did the caseworker wait for 10 minutes before she called the cops and why didn't she mention the smell of gasoline as the main reason for why they needed to get the cops out there instead of it being the reason why she needed to get out the driveway?

The dispatcher treated it like a non-emergency because that's how it was being presented by the caseworker. I know they are taught to stay calm but she was out there for 10 minutes, heard the kids crying, smelled gas, wasn't being allowed in the house by a guy who is thought to be behind his wife's disappearance and she knew all of this and still waited to call and act like she was reporting a cat being stuck in a tree!!!!!!!

[LisaL]

9. To be fair she did tell him this could be an emergency, but

I also don't understand why she told him she wanted to move her car because of gasoline smell. That could have confused him into thinking gasoline smell was coming from her car, and not from the house.

[qanda]

10. I hear you

I just heard a little more of the call and the dispatcher was clearly confused. I don't want to blame the caseworker because I'm sure she is doing enough of that herself. I'm not sure anything would have saved those boys lives. If anything, Powell probably would have killed more people had the police gotten there sooner. It's all so sad!

[LisaL]

13. Yes, in this particular case, nothing would probably make a difference.

Even if police showed up after that first 911 call (how long did it take for "first available deputy" to show up?), they'd likely just surround the house first for who knows how long.

[LiberalEsto]

11. I wish those children hadn't died in fear

I was really hoping they didn't know what was happening, but it looks like their murderous father didn't give a damn about them.

[obamanut2012]

12. I have never heard of supervised visits at the person's place

ALWAYS at a neutral place.

This call reminds me of the Tracey Thurman situation. A domestic violence call wasn't treated as an emergency, and the cop finally dispatched actually stopped someplace to pee first.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Thurman

[happyslug]

14. Supervised at home is done all the time, if the Judge believes that is in the children's interest.

Most such visitation involves a fear that the parent ordered to be supervised, may runaway with the children, be neglectful with the children, or harm the children, not in a murder suicide like this case.

On the other hand the Case Worker should have been trained (and I suspect she was NOT) NEVER to leave the children in the door first. The caseworker should enter first with the children behind her. This can be difficult for most children do want to see the parent they are visiting, even children who had been abused by that parent. Such children tend to rush to the door and rush in, with the Caseworker coming in behind them. The Caseworker has to be trained NEVER to leave the children enter the house first. If the parent refuses to leave the caseworker in, the children goes with the caseworker.

It is little things like making sure the Children enter the house AFTER the caseworker that prevents things like this debacle, and it is something that MUST be taught to the Caseworker and the Caseworker constantly reminded of it.

In my own practice of Custody law, I ALWAYS make sure I am between the parties. Thus the parties have to go through me to get at each other. I have had my client tried to get at the other side, but the fact I was in the way prevented that attack and saved my client from some serious jail time (and in Custody and Visitation cases, I have had more problems with Mothers going after the Fathers, then the other way around).

Just pointing out I believe this is the result of BAD TRAINING, not the Caseworker herself, for her actions were probably the result of what her training by her employer trained her to do. i.e. leave the children interact with the parent, even as the Children enter the parent's home. In 99% of the cases this works out, but every so often someone takes advantage of the situation and proper training would have prevented this incident.

Proper training should also include that the Caseworker call 911, and report the lockout AND that the Caseworker tell the 911 operator, it is COURT ORDERED that she supervise and thus the lockout is an emergency and if a Police Officer is NOT present ASAP, the 911 Operator and the 911 operator's supervisor will have to inform the Judge who ordered the Supervised Visitation WHY a Police Officer was NOT dispatched immediately. This should be part of the CYS protocol is such situation AND the Judge who entered the Order for the Supervised visitation should make it his practice to hold a hearing every time a Police officer is NOT sent to the scene within five minutes.

Please note, the procedural MUST include the right of the Caseworker and/or the Police Officer to break into the house and get the children without further order of court (A Statement that the Caseworker and/or Police officer can break in should be part of the ORDER setting up the Supervised Visitation, if the Parent does NOT want to agree to those terms, no visitation).

If the standard operating procedures had included EITHER of these two procedural, this debacle would NEVER had happened, either the children would NEVER have entered the home, do to the fact the Case worker was locked outside OR a police officer would have been on the scene before the fire started.

Thus my comment this is a result of bad training and bad procedures as are most such debacles, and in most such debacles it is the caseworker who is going to be blamed NOT that the Caseworker did as she was TRAINED to do and is any situation people do as they had been trained to do and thus the problem is higher up, i.e. what was the training of the caseworker in such situation and what was the procedural the Caseworker was to follow. The above should be trained every year to the Caseworker so they KNOW what they are suppose to do is such situations. Such procedural and training is in the exclusive domain of whoever is the head of the local agency doing such supervised visitation, and they should be blamed for this disaster, but I suspect such supervisors will NOT even be mentioned and all the blame put on the Caseworker.

[hedgehog]

15. Wasn't the "caseworker" a contract employee rather than

a civil service employee? Sounds like some politician was trying to trim costs, and decided all that was needed for the job was someone who could drive a car. BTW - was it the caseworker's own car that was used? Another indication of somone trying to get by on the cheap!

If this person was poorly trained, then it stands to reason that she may not have realized just how fast things could go so bad!

I'm agreeing with you that the blame needs to go higher up the totem pole!

[Missy Vixen]

16. Maybe you should move to Washington State and take over DSHS

The law enforcement interviewed since Sunday's murders/suicide have ALL said this was well-planned in advance. Josh Powell managed to fool scores of people of his intent. If you're looking for someone to blame, perhaps you might want to interview the mental health professional and the judge, who recommended Powell have visitation at all.

Stop blaming the caseworker for lack of training. Josh Powell decided he wanted to kill his kids, made a plan, and carried it out. After all, they'd started talking about what happened to their mother. Couldn't have that.

[happyslug]

19. I was NOT blaming the Caseworker, I was blaming the SYSTEM i.e. her supervisors

The issue of training is a duty of the Caseworker's Supervisors NOT the caseworker. If the Caseworker did NOT follow the procedures adopted by her supervisors, then the question is WHY? If the Caseworker did NOT know of those procedures, then it is again the fault of her supervisors.

As I was saying, a SYSTEM has to be adopted for cases like this, one that is followed in ALL CASES, the regulations generally would be an annoyance, but in cases like this one would have prevented this tragedy. Such rules and regulations are made, training provided in those rules and regulations and the rules and regulations are enforced by supervisors of Caseworkers NOT the Caseworkers themselves. What really caught my attention was how the conversation between the 911 operator and the Caseworker went. BOTH should have been following a Script, that BOTH had been trained in. i.e. Caseworker is locked out, she tells 911 Operator. who then treats it as an emergency sends a Police Officer ASAP. No need for any explanation, all the Caseworker should have had to do is explain she was a Caseworker in regards to Court Ordered Supervised Visitation and the Parent had locked her out. Nothing more SHOULD have needed to be said by the Caseworker. Hearing those key phases, the 911 worker then does as he or she is trained to do in such situations and send in a Police Officer. This should be automatic by both the Caseworker and the 911 operator. That automatic response would have been due to TRAINING by both to follow that basic script.

The problem is such training is something the SUPERVISORS of both the Caseworker and the 911 operator have to arrange to make sure BOTH get that training. I suspect NO such training has ever taken place, thus this tragedy. The problem is NOT the Caseworker or the 911 operator but the system both are working in, and that is under the control of the SUPERVISORS of the Caseworker and 911 operators and thus this tragedy is the fault of the SUPERVISORS NOT the Caseworker or the 911 operator.

[LisaL]

21. Maybe supervisors themselves weren't trained very well. And so on, and so forth.

[Kennah]

29. If you want to blame someone, blame the GOP

Whatever the solution, more caseworkers, supervised visits at a neutral site, cops standing guard inside the home, or anything else. The solutions cost money, and RWers just ain't gonna spend money on DSHS.

[Blue_Tires]

17. Excellent points but I do think in hindsight that even if

the caseworker went in first she'd have been the first one dead...A man prepared to murder his own children and himself won't flinch at putting another body on the pile

[riderinthestorm]

24. Yup, the guy had an axe and was prepared to use it. I'm not so sure the children weren't dead w/in

the first few minutes....

Unless the caseworker had been trained as happyslug mentioned, to keep the children behind her going through the door, that MAY have prevented anything like this happening. Or it may have only been that the caseworker ended up murdered along with the rest....

[LisaL]

25. CPS doesn't train the workers to keep the children behind because in most cases

that wouldn't make sense. Presumably a worker wants to see the children and if they are behind that is not possible. But the children were not dead in a first few minutes. The 911 call itself before the fire was nearly 7 minutes, and she said at about 4 minutes into the 911 call that the children were in the home for about 10 minutes. And we don't even know how soon after that the house was on fire. They actually died in the fire so they were not dead prior to the fire.

[riderinthestorm]

26. I was just responding to happyslug's comments about poor training methods

and that the caseworker should have been trained to go in front of the children through the door....

I was also under the impression that the children were bludgeoned with an axe and killed that way first, then the fire was lit.

From Huffington Post...
"Powell's ominous words were recorded 20 minutes before he attacked his sons Braden, 5, and Charles, 7, with a hatchet moments after they bounded into his Graham, Wash. home ahead of a Child Protective Services worker who accompanied them for a supervised visit with their dad."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/07/josh-powell-voicemail-_n_1259867.html


Although Fox News is reporting that they died of smoke inhalation....

Now I'm wondering if the autopsies have shown which it is conclusively...

Regardless, just a terrible story. Terrible.

[LisaL]

27. They didn't die from the hatchet wounds.

He only wounded them with the hatchet. They died from the fire (carbon monoxide poisoning).

[riderinthestorm]

28. Thanks. I was going on earlier reports from Huffpo, discounting the Fox news reports. nt

[appleannie1]

18. I was a dispatcher for 15 years. I would have been fired if I ever handled a call

in such an unprofessional manner. And that was before 911. That was a total disgrace the way that call was handled.

[LisaL]

20. I am not impressed with either one of the people involived in 911 call.

I don't think the operator understood the gasoline smell was coming from the house, because I don't think the case worker made it clear. She was talking about wanting to move her car because of gasoline smell instead of saying that gasoline smell is coming from the house. But she certainly did tell him in the end there that this could be life threatening emergency and I don't think he got that through his head. Not impressed with either side.

[Nikia]

22. 911 operators are supposed to be good at clarifying and understanding what people are saying

In many emergencies, the person calling may be rather upset and not saying things in the most logical manner. It is up to the operator to clarify and understand what is happening despite this.

[LisaL]

23. Yes, he should have clarified, but

it presumably would have helped if she actually said the gasoline smell is coming from the house as opposed to she wants to pull out of the driveway because she smells gasoline.