Maduro: No cordial talks with US until it stops alleged conspiracy against Venezuela

[Zorro]

Source: Washington Post

President Nicolas Maduro said Tuesday that Venezuela will not have cordial relations with the United States as long as U.S. diplomats continue what he alleges are attempts to destabilize his country.

He said “new points of contact” can be established, but only if Washington ends such activity.

Maduro’s tough talk came a day after he announced the expulsion of the top U.S. diplomat in Venezuela, Charge d’Affaires Kelly Keiderling, and two other embassy officials, alleging they conspired with “the extreme right” to sabotage the economy and power grid.

The United States again on Tuesday rejected the allegations that it is trying to destabilize this South American nation.


Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/venezuela-expels-top-us-diplomat-2-others-alleging-they-plotted-to-sabotage-economy/2013/09/30/62cffd7c-2a30-11e3-b141-298f46539716_story.html

[Archae]

1. Yeah, nothing is the fault of Maduro and his cronies...

"The US is to blame for everything!"

[Octafish]

16. That's what Jacobo Arbenz said.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html

[struggle4progress]

21. Cover-up revealed! Obama was behind 1954 overthrow of Guatemalan government!

I don't know how Ed Anger will weigh in on this news, but you can be sure Batboy won't be endorsing Obama in 2016

[Octafish]

25. Ha ha. It is to laugh at fascism. Like the time Hillary helped Honduras out of democracy.

Hillary Clinton’s Honduran Disgrace

By Matthew Rothschild
The Progressive, March 5, 2010

Hillary Clinton continues with her hawkish ways, making Obama’s foreign policy less distinguishable from Bush’s every day.

She just met with Honduran President Pepe Lobo, she’s notified Congress that the Obama administration is restoring aid to Honduras, and she’s urging Latin American nations to recognize the Lobo government in Tegucigalpa.

The democratic opposition in Honduras boycotted lobo’s election, since he’s allied with the forces that overthrew Manuel Zelaya last June.

But for the longest time, Hillary Clinton stubbornly refused to call the June takeover a “coup,” even though her boss, the president of the United States, immediately denounced it as such.

SNIP..

“Other countries of the region say that they want to wait a while,” she said on her Latin American trip. “I don’t know what they’re waiting for.”

CONTINUED...

http://progressive.org/wx030510.html

So. There is that.

[struggle4progress]

27. "We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the president of Honduras,

the democratically elected president there," Obama told reporters after an Oval Office meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe.
Obama says coup in Honduras is illegal
By Arshad Mohammed and David Alexander
WASHINGTON | Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:26pm EDT

You call Hillary Clinton a fascist because she announced, nine months later, that the US was restoring aid and would try to work with Lobo

The Administration evidently considered its options here and concluded it had no prospects for reinstating Zelaya by any acceptable means likely to succeed

I guess it's not fun to face that fact that we must work in the world as-it-actually-is and not in the world as-we-think-it-should-be --- and that in choosing how to move forward we must not only address realities on the ground but must also address conflicts between various of our own ideals

Perhaps you would have preferred that Mr Obama sent troops to Honduras to reinstall Zelaya?

[Octafish]

28. Interesting. Must explain why Aristide got the Treatment.

Bill and Hillary Clinton: “Friends of Haiti?”

Marty Goodman
Black Agenda Report, Wed, 12/05/2012

Bill Clinton and Obama’s Secretary of State Hillary Clinton are called “the Friends of Haiti.” Oh, really?

After the 2010 earthquake in Haiti, President Obama appointed Bill Clinton as US envoy, partnering with the Katrina and Iraq criminal George Bush, Jr., a supporter of the 2004 CIA-backed military coup which overthrew the elected President, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. After the earthquake, Bill headed relief agencies, while excluding Haitians themselves. The stated theme of the Clinton-Bush effort was to “build back better.” Today, Bill is the UN envoy and acknowledged guiding hand behind international relief efforts.

Both Bill and Hillary are promoters of the U.S. dominated World Bank low-wage sweatshop plan for Haiti, angrily dubbed “the American Plan” by Haitians. Last year, Hillary signed an agreement committing $124 million tax dollars to the building of the Caracol sweatshop assembly park in the north of Haiti. The agreement includes massive tax breaks for sweatshop bosses. Workers there are making the starvation wage of about $3.50 a day.

On Oct 22, 2012 Bill and Hillary were on hand for the inaugural ceremony in Caracol. Also there was Haitian President Michael Martelly, a pro-coup right-winger linked to Duvalier era thugs. Hillary praised Martelly as Haiti’s “chief dreamer and believer.” Martelly, once again, declared Haiti “open for business.”

The sweatshop park was launched with $3 million from the “Clinton Bush Haiti Fund,” set up by the two Obama appointees to spearhead so-called earthquake relief fundraising. One park occupant, Sae-A Trading, is a large textile company cited by the AFL-CIO for “acts of violence and intimidation” against workers in Guatemala.

“Last year, Hillary signed an agreement committing $124 million tax dollars to the building of the Caracol sweatshop assembly park in the north of Haiti.”

In 1993, during Bill Clinton’s administration, he appointed his close friend Ron Brown as Secretary of Commerce. In the early 1980s, Brown was a partner in the powerful Washington law firm of Patton, Boggs & Blow. Brown was a paid attorney and a lobbyist for Haitian dictator Jean-Claude “Baby Doc” Duvalier and his family. Brown was also personally linked to wealthy Haitian pro-Duvalier figures.

CONTINUED...

http://blackagendareport.com/content/bill-and-hillary-clinton-%E2%80%9Cfriends-haiti%E2%80%9D

Then again, War Inc needs the oil. Right?

[struggle4progress]

29. Did you support 1994 Clinton's re-instatement of Aristide after the 1991 coup, or did you also

regard that as an unwarranted military adventure?

[Octafish]

30. I spoke to Aristide about it when Bush oversaw the overthrow in 1991.

And I wrote about it later on DU:

Aristide told me the Generals ran Dope, Inc. on Haiti. Personally.

Posted by Octafish in General Discussion (Through 2005)
Sat Mar 20th 2004, 06:49 PM

Sorry if the following is an old read. The thing held true then and holds true still…

I met Jean Bertrand-Aristide after he was deposed by the generals in the early 90s. He came to metro Detroit and spoke before the Cranbrook Peace Foundation.

The newspaper I then worked for didn’t see any reason for sending me to cover Aristide’s speech. The editors weren’t BFEE, but the events on a Caribbean island just weren’t “local” enough for their budget. So, I went on my own time.

The Cranbrook people were happy to see me. They wanted, of course, as much coverage as possible. So, they invited me and the other interested reporter types to have at him for an hour before his address.

I’m ashamed to report, at an important event in two nation’s larger media market, only a couple of CBC radio reporters out of Windsor and one local Detroit TV crew bothered to show. I was the lone print guy. Anyway…

Aristide answered every question asked in English or French. He also told us about life in Haiti, where there were four doctors to care for 4 million people. Another interesting stat: One percent of the population own 99-percent of the property.

I asked Aristide what the United States could do to help him restore democracy to Haiti? Aristide said all Poppy Doc Bush had to do was pick up the phone, call the generals and say, “Get out,” and they would quit their coup and the first democratically elected leader of Haiti in 75 years would be returned to power. Bush didn't and Aristide wasn't until Clinton sent the US Marines, many years and many Haitian lives later.

The reason for Bush Senior's inaction? Aristide said he didn’t know the answer, but he suspected Bush’s politics favored the landowners over the masses. (“Sounds familiar,” I then thought and still think today.)

Aristide said that the generals were deep into the wholesale cocaine importation business. Now who would be their partner in all that? Besides the wealthy landowners, for whom the Generals worked, I mean.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Octafish/785

So, yes. I stand for democracy.

[jzodda]

26. Obama also tried to give cancer to Chavez and personally disrupted the power grid.

Donald trump will soon be sending his investigation teams down there to find the truth!

[JackRiddler]

34. Do not distract with your strawman.

Your rhetoric does not relate to this story. Are Maduro's allegations about the activities of the U.S. agents true or not?

(That would have nothing to do with the U.S. being to blame for "everything," nor would it mean "nothing" was Maduro's fault. These are rather over-broad categories, no?)

Are Maduro's allegations about the activities of the U.S. agents true or not? No rhetoric please.

[joshcryer]

2. Why weren't they arrested?

That is a significant charge. I think they should've been arrested if true.

[DeSwiss]

4. Diplomatic immunity. n/t

[joshcryer]

5. For sabotage? A waiver request should've been made.

Regardless they should've been arrested until such procedures could be met. Even if the US didn't waive the immunity (rare) the Venezuelan government should've requested prosecution in the US.

Sorry I don't buy it. I want to see the evidence.

[DeSwiss]

6. For evidence, contact the NSA. :-/ n/t

[joshcryer]

7. It's been tried.

I'd expect Venezuela, being such an open and transparent and least corrupt country on the planet with a perfect judicial system and prisoners treated with the utmost respect and dignity, release it.



Just more Maduro posturing. He didn't like that the diplomats dared meet with the opposition. No arrests will be made over this alleged sabotage attempt.

[DeSwiss]

11. It's all posturing. Every bit, by everyone involved..... :-) n/t

[inch4progress]

3. Venzuela isn't OUR enemy, but they are the enemy of the 1% capitalists

[SDjack]

8. State Dept does interfere in the affairs of Venezuela for the benefit of US capitalists.

They are pursuing socialism to exploit their natural resources to raise their standard of living. That is not our business and we need to stay out of it.

[COLGATE4]

9. Wins first prize for Naivete of the Week nt

[inch4progress]

13. Yuppers. Did you see Oliver Stone's "South of the Border"? Great movie!

[COLGATE4]

10. Yep. The Chavez/Maduro government's policy of

letting a degraded electric system die from a lack of modernization and indifference to infrastructure investment onviously has nothing to do with all the electric blackouts now common in Venezuela. It's clearly just another dastardly US plot (involving the State Department, CIA, Bilderberg Group and the Illuminati) intended to discredit the otherwise outstanding presidency of Maduro.

[inch4progress]

14. If what you were saying was true, and not straight from 1% owned media,

Chavez and Maduro would never have been elected.

[COLGATE4]

17. Talk about a non sequitur - prior to Chavez'

Last edited Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:35 PM - Edit history (1)

election the Venezuelan government was working hard on overhauling the Electric sector of the country, precisely because their studies showed the increasing demand that was coming to an already outdated electric generation and distribution system. However once Chavez took power all these reforms were thrown out. In fact, the first great success of the prior government (improving electric service for the Venezuelan people - not your imaginary 1%) was Margarita Island where system capacity and reliability was increased dramatically. But this was abruptly done away with when Chavez nationalized it shortly after taking power. The other proposed reforms were likewise scrapped.

Since then the electric sector in Venezuela, already starting to be in crisis at the time Chavez rode in, has only continued to deteriorate. It cannot keep up with ever-increasing demand and, in addition, the large capital investment needed to keep machinery 50 years old in some cases functioning just isn't happening. Thus, the present situation of rolling blackouts and outages which Maduro, displaying his infinite wisdom and technological expertise, tries to blame on 'sabotage'.

Chavez' and Maduros' elections were in no way a referendum on the public's satisfaction with a lousy electric sector. In fact this current lack of dependability of electric power is a factor which will only serve to bring more discontent with Maduro's government. And all the cheap demagoguery won't do anything to improve that. Blaming the famous "1%" for their own ineptitude doesn't convince anyone.

[inch4progress]

19. Please identify the disconnet in my conclusion that people aren't going to

vote for someone who is literally going to leave them in the dark. It's one of those words people throw around too often, it sounds sexy, kind of like "Irony"

[COLGATE4]

31. How about responding to what I posted?

You are attempting to make the fallacious argument that people wouldn't have voted for Chavez/Maduro if they had been dissastisfied with the disasterous state of the electric generation and distribution system in Venezuela. This "cause and effect" doesn't hold any type of intellectual water. As you well know, people cast their votes for a multiplicity of reasons. not the least of which is in the hope that the new person will make bad things better. However in Venezuela the problems with the electric sector have only become accentuated over the period begun by Chavez and, due to government mismanagement and a general lack of interest by the government have just continued to worsen. I don't doubt that in the next elections this lack of a fundamental service (along with the other multiple deficiencies of the 'Bolivatian' economy) may well oust Maduro - after all he only won this election by a slim margin.

[inch4progress]

33. People vote according to need and expectation. If they had problems under chavez with such a basic

need there would have been wide revolts THERE WEREN'T, not even from the wealthy! Although there was an attempted coup and kidnapping, no doubt with funds from the CIA
So The fallacious argument you accuse me of making, I throw back at you, but by no fault of your own. The west gets NYT, WP, La Times and that's about it.

"WATCH SOUTH OF THE BORDER" by Oliver Stone


The west rips Venezuela apart in the media with bullshit and lies. No power in a hot country? No riots, I call bullshit. The power problems weren't nearly as extreme or widespread as the western media says.

Just like the food shortages. hahaha. Everyone had food, what the rich were pissed about was the rising cost of their luxury shit since the "PEOPLES" FOOD WAS SUBSIDIZED AND SUPPLIED COLLECTIVELY.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SUMS UP EVERYTHING

The people had what they needed, to such excess, that Chavez was able to donate energy TO POOR AMERICANS. Did you hear about that in the western media. NO.

But we can wait. I guarantee Maduro or another follower of the principles of Simon Bolivar will win if he for some reason chooses not to run.

[COLGATE4]

38. Please tell me about your expertise in

Venezuela that leads you to such a condescending (and totally incorrect) statement such as "by no fault of your own". I would love to learn from such an expert in Venezuela as you claim to be. BTW, I consulted with the Venezuelan government during their push to improve the entire electric sector before and for two years after Chavez came to power. I am very familiar with the electric sector problems Vz has and saw first hand what Chavez and his coterie of Merry Men did to governmental agencies (Electric Sector and PDVSA), turning them into barely functioning entities, a shadow of their former selves.

[Cali_Democrat]

12. He's claiming the US sabotaged their power grid?

He's the same guy who said the CIA gave Hugo Chavez cancer via poison.

He's crazy.

[inch4progress]

15. Not to say he is right, but, giving someone cancer isn't all that difficult.

All you have to do is wear down the immune system then over the long term damage their DNA. One way would be to slip someone a p53 suppressor over a period of time, their chances of developing multiple cancers rise drastically.

SV40 is an abbreviation for Simian vacuolating virus 40 or Simian virus 40, a polyomavirus that is found in both monkeys and humans. Like other polyomaviruses, SV40 is a DNA virus that has the potential to cause tumors, but most often persists as a latent infection.

SV40 became a highly controversial subject after it was revealed that millions were exposed to the virus after receiving a contaminated polio vaccine produced between 1955 and 1961.

SV40 is believed to suppress the transcriptional properties of the tumor-suppressing p53 in humans through the SV40 Large T-antigen and SV40 Small T-antigen. p53 is responsible for initiating regulated cell death ("apoptosis&quot , or cell cycle arrest when a cell is damaged. A mutated p53 gene may contribute to uncontrolled cellular proliferation, leading to a tumor.

SV40 may act as a co-carcinogen with crocidolite asbestos to cause both Peritoneal and Pleural Mesothelioma [18] (review [19]).

When SV40 infects nonpermissive cells, such as 3T3 mouse cells, the dsDNA of SV40 becomes covalently integrated. In nonpermissive cells only the early gene expression occurs and this leads to transformation, or oncogenesis. The nonpermissive host needs the Large T-antigen and the Small t-antigen in order to function. The Small T-antigen interacts with and integrates with the cellular phosphatase pp2A. This causes the cell to lose the ability to initiate transcription.
Polio vaccine contamination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SV40

[struggle4progress]

23. Yup. Obviously our Charge d'Affairs encouraged saboteurs to vandalize a metal grille

and drop it across a transmission line, plunging the country into darkness for a few hours a month ago

That's obviously why she's gone thru all that language training over the years -- to be able to encourage vandals abroad

[Peace Patriot]

18. Did the "United States" strangle on its tongue (in-cheek) when it rejected it?

"The United States again on Tuesday rejected the allegations that it is trying to destabilize this South American nation." --from the OP

[inch4progress]

20. RE-destablize, what is this like the millionth time we have meddled in their affairs?

People understand our government isn't beyond assassination, but messing with someones electric grid is off limits?

[struggle4progress]

24. Do you have any actual reason to think the current administration is doing that?

[JackRiddler]

35. Imperialism is largely independent of "administrations"

Usual red herring where someone tries to make it about Obama. Yawn.

[struggle4progress]

37. Buzzwords and sloganeering are no substitute to detailed analysis of concrete facts

[Ash_F]

22. How many DUer's enjoyed Netanyahu's endorsement of Romney?

Are these the same DUer's who enjoy the State Department's endorsement of the right wing party of Venezuela?



TV propaganda sure is strong.

[JackRiddler]

36. Pretty much.

On this board Venezuela is the subject that allows people to let their inner right wing out. All the Tea Party shit you can't say about Obama, you can say about Venezuela. Not that the Latin American right-wing can't also be Democrats in the U.S. No contradiction there -- the present admin had no trouble supporting the coup d'etat government in Honduras.

[bitchkitty]

32. What a wank fest! n/t