Jahi McMath: New York facility is 'last hope' for girl declared brain dead, family say

[LiberalElite]

Source: NBC

By The Associated Press

The family of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl declared brain dead after complications from routine tonsil surgery, said Saturday a hospital in New York may be able to accept her and keep her on life support.

The girl's uncle and lawyer wouldn't provide the hospital's name, saying they don't want media attention to hurt her chance of being accepted and transferred there.

"It's an organization that believes in life," attorney Chris Dolan told the Associated Press.

"It's our last, last hope," he said after two facilities in California that agreed to accept Jahi decided to back out.

Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/29/22095281-jahi-mcmath-new-york-facility-is-last-hope-for-girl-declared-brain-dead-fam

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[Squinch]

1. This is getting gruesome.

[LiberalElite]

5. Yes -

this will come across as flip but here goes - Norman Bates would be proud. I mean, doing a tracheostomy and inserting a FEEDING TUBE???!! Surely there's someone living who could better use all this care and attention. This society has a big problem dealing with death and this ongoing drama is Exhibit A in the proof.

See:
http://www.nmu.edu/counselingandconsultation/node/18

Dealing with Death (and Other Significant Losses) —One Human’s Thoughts

Americans don’t do death well. George Carlin once said we’ll call death a “terminal incident,” “organismically challenged,” anything but the “D word.” .....

------snip-----

[Squinch]

7. Yes. I think it's because we are not allowed near it.

I lost two family members this year, and it has been very instructive. Both were of old age. One took everything the medical community could offer and spent her last month in a loud, bright, painful ICU, having surgeries that caused strokes and comas and medical "ethics" complications.

The other said, "Nope. I'm old. It's going to happen, and I'm OK with that." She died in her home while having a cordial glass of single malt scotch before she was due to go to watch a TV show with her friends.

Guess which route I'm going to take?

[Archae]

17. Had a similar situation in my family.

My Father told the cancer specialist to take a hike, since at the very most he'd live a few more months and in pain.

My Aunt died hooked up to every machine imaginable, she was in a coma but obviously hurting.
Her doctors kept her alive to suck dry the insurance. No other reason.

[valerief]

2. Hmm, so "the Jesus" isn't the last hope? nt

[secondwind]

3. what is this all about? keeping her "alive" for whose sake? let her go peacefully!

[cosmicone]

12. She is already dead and it is a corpse

She is being kept on machines to increase the damage award saying she has a life expectancy of 15 years (eyeroll) and at $4 million a year it is 60 million in medical special damages times 3 for pain and suffering = about $150-200 million lawsuit.

If they accept she is dead and pull the plug, the most they will get is $1-2 million.

I have seen this many times before.

[LovingA2andMI]

19. How do you know this?

Is this because Jahi's family is African-American you believe they are seeking the "big payday" by keeping their CHILD on life support. Sick, sick, sick thoughts in my humble opinion.

Maybe you need to read what happened AFTER Jahi's surgery and how the hospital FAILED to immediately respond to the girl SEVERE hemorrhaging after surgery, with LED to Jahi's massive heart attack, leaving her in this current state. That's medical MALPRACTICE issue which will be handled SEPARATELY from attempts to keep Jahi on life support, currently.

[cosmicone]

22. Her race is not even an issue.

There was malpractice involved on the hospital's part, not because of hemorrhage, which is a frequent complication but because the nurses ignored the hemorrhage and didn't do anything about it.

Now that the lawyer knows that there is negligence, they are trying to maximize the potential award when it is obvious that the girl is dead and has no chance of coming back.

[Javaman]

30. +1 nt

[Yo_Mama]

32. This is so lame and spiteful

First, you have just stated a motive for the hospital to wish to make sure the kid stops breathing. And if that motive exists, then the family might not be unreasonable in wondering how committed the hospital really is to their daughter's welfare! This is even more true because the girl's grandmother is a pediatric nurse.

Second, the longer this goes on the more the hospital's diagnosis comes into question. If it IS TRUE, as you assume, that this child has suffered brainstem death, then you should know full well that she will not be kept alive. Life support simply doesn't work if the brainstem is dead. The heart will eventually stop on its own regardless of any life support measures taken, and usually this occurs within days!

However, the longer this goes on the less likely it is that the child's brainstem is dead, and I agree this might come into play in a malpractice case, if there ever is any. I'm sure the hospital will want to settle. But no way will the child still be living in any way when a suit could be heard if the brainstem is dead. No way.

So the only case in which your claim about the family's motivations COULD BE TRUE is if the hospital is WRONG, which to me means that your claim about motives refutes itself.

And the nicest way I can describe such an assertion is lame and spiteful. I would like to use other, more accurate words, but I don't want my reply to your spite to be tombstoned, because your post is such a slur upon the family that I want the rebuttal to remain.

What gives you the right to assume that their motive here is not love and concern for the child? WHAT?

Would you make such an assertion if it were the child of the Kennedy family? I don't think so. What is going on in your mind? Think about it!

[cosmicone]

39. All direct and independent evidence

is completely against what you are saying.

No less than 6 experts, one of whom is an author of the textbook of Pediatric Neurology has confirmed brain death.

Furthermore, machines can keep a body going brain-dead or not -- heck we even keep isolated organs alive in the lab.

The "lame and spiteful" is probably a projection on your part. I was just trying to be scientifically objective.

[Yo_Mama]

42. No, you can't keep a person with a dead brain stem's heart beating

That is the scientific truth. The body has no means to coordinate its functions, especially hormonal/enzymatic, which are essential to keep the heart beating. The heart will just stop on its own. You're the one making up things if you really believe that a body with a dead brain stem can be kept functioning by ventilation, especially since the cause of the brain death was reported as cardiac arrest. It's already damaged! The organs start deteriorating before the heart stops in such cases.

I believe the world record is something like 63 days, but that involved a heck of a lot more than what this girl is getting. Expected is 2-10 days, but after a week it's iffy for the organs to be used. That's why the doctors speak to the families of such potential donors just about immediately about organ donation - it's not to torture them, but because the time is running out to harvest viable organs! Real death is quite irreversible, and no you cannot keep a dead person even clinically alive (beating heart, circulating blood) for very long no matter what you do. Science can't do it.

Mind you, I'm not saying that the girl is alive. I'm just saying that the assertion that the only motive the family has in keeping her on the ventilator is to collect a larger malpractice award is scientifically absurd and therefore a very odd claim to make. This appears to be bullshit aimed at convincing the public that the family are nasty people!

Anyone with an open mind can see what's involved in maintaining that beating heart for long enough so that the organs can be harvested:
http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/about_us/professional_development_programme/pdf/management_of_brain_stem_dead_donor.pdf
http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/content/108/suppl_1/i96.full

This isn't being done for this girl. The chance that her brain stem was entirely dead a week ago is pretty slim now. But the damage could be so severe that it is irreversible and progressive, which is probably what they "meant".

The judge's initial order was clearly meant to let nature take its course. And believe me, it would have. And it has.

I NEVER claimed the poor child was still alive. I claimed that the assertion that the family's motive in keeping her on ventilation was purely mercenary was scientifically ridiculous and therefore, IMO, either malign or ignorant.

[cosmicone]

43. Unfortunately, some of us went to medical school

and toiled through residencies to learn this and didn't get a quick education on the internet.

The heart generates its own rhythm via the SA node and can keep beating. Furthermore, the entire heart muscle has its own rhythm and the heart muscle fibers contract and relax in rhythm. The brainstem is vital for respiration but not to continue the heart beating.

As long as the heart is getting nutrients and oxygen, it can be kept alive indefinitely in a tissue culture setting.

Your proclamations of "heart cannot function if the brainstem is dead" are as silly as Todd Aiken's "If it is a legitimate rape, the human body shuts it all down."

[tblue]

25. Kinda cynical. More like guilt and denial

and hope for a miracle. The mom is wracked with remorse and not ready to give up on her little girl. I can only imagine her torment and desperation. I wouldn't ascribe financial gain as a motive unless I was really certain.

[Arkansas Granny]

4. I really feel for this family and there is nothing worse

than losing a child. As hard as it is, this family needs to accept that this child is already gone and all that can be done is to let the body go, also. Only then can the grieving and healing take place.

[QuestForSense]

15. They're having a very hard time letting her go.

Stuck in denial perhaps. I wish they were receiving wiser counsel. It's getting pathetic and I'm feeling desperately sad for them.

[magical thyme]

6. so the 2nd facility backed out in part because it's doctors also refuse to "treat"

a deceased person.

"Dolan said a facility in the Los Angeles area also withdrew its offer because it didn't want media attention or to jeopardize its relationship with its doctors, who refused to treat someone who's been declared brain dead.

"He said Saturday he was waiting to hear from the New York hospital after its facility director and medical director speak.

Hospital spokeswoman Cynthia Chiarappa said the hospital has not heard from any facility to discuss how it can accommodate "a deceased body on a ventilator."

[Gormy Cuss]

31. Children's referring to a "deceased body" isn't helping.

Just makes them look like cold-hearted bastards. The body isn't deceased. The essence of the child is dead but her body is being kept alive artificially. That's why this whole mess exists.

[magical thyme]

36. agreed. they should stick to the language of "irreversibly brain dead"

spokespeople occasionally amaze with their ineptness. Either it was an awkward slip (maybe her body's condition has deteriorated) or a very ham-handed attempt to direct the conversation.

[Gormy Cuss]

38. It seems intentional because the terminology was used repeatedly in the statement.

It's clearly an attempt to direct the conversation. At any rate, the body will be disconnected from life support this evening.

[magical thyme]

45. apparently not. the same judge that agreed she is irreversibly brain dead granted another extension

amazing. she is irreversibly brain dead. there has been no blood blow to her brain for weeks now and the only thing that is maintaining metabolic processes is the ventilator. Stop that and her heart will stop.

this is appalling. now the parents are citing their religious beliefs. this sets a terrible precedent.

[Feral Child]

8. There is a no "last hope"

in this case. "Hope" is extinguished.

If the family is unable to let go and accept reality, I hope no public funds are being squandered in this futile and gruesome attempt to animate dead meat.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

9. I also am getting the idea that this family refuses to accept their child's death

Yes, she should not have died, and it's gut-wrenching. But she is dead.

Seems like Terri Schiavo all over again.

[cosmicone]

13. Terry Schiavo was not brain-dead

and as a physician, I can accept the logic behind keeping her alive even though I didn't agree with it.

In this case, the girl has died and they want a corpse kept in a biologically active state -- sort of like tissue culture -- which is grossly unethical.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

29. I stand corrected

Although a years-long "persistent vegetative state" is, to the layman, not that different from being brain-dead.

IMHO, in both cases, it was ghoulish.

[PasadenaTrudy]

10. They want to transfer her

all the way across the country now? Cripes

[Mz Pip]

11. The logistics of this seem problematic to me.

There are at least 8 hours, maybe more, of this body being in transit. This seems pretty complicated.

Also, realistically how long can this go on before other organs, not just the brain, shut down? This seems really creepy to me.

[LiberalElite]

14. She's dead -

everything shut down when the brain did. Whatever life signs she's showing are being entirely produced by machines.

[Mz Pip]

16. It's not like they have her on ice.

Not to be gross but after a while dead starts to decompose. Seems a feeding tube and a ventilator can't stop that process.

[LiberalElite]

18. True -

try to tell that to the family. Seems like they're beyond reason right now.

[Yo_Mama]

35. Well, if the brainstem is dead the body will die regardless.

It takes a little while, but it will happen on its own, and it usually happens within 10 days.

So I don't see why we have to abuse the family. It's becoming increasingly unlikely that the hospital was right about one portion of the diagnosis.

[SCVDem]

20. I'm done with this tale of the macabre.

Unless the next article states she had her organs donated, this is a non story.

Remove the lawyers and call a priest.

[MiniMe]

21. I wish they would stop calling it a routine tonsil sugery

They did another surgery to deal with her sleep apnea.

[Retrograde]

23. That's because information is coming from only one side

The SF Chronicle implies it was a much more complicated surgery, involving not just the tonsils but other areas in the throat. Someone - possibly the family's lawyer - is giving the impression that it was just a simple tonsillectomy. The hospital can not legally divulge any patient details at this point, so accounts of what actually happened are coming only from the family's side.

There does need to be an investigation as to just what happened and why, with both sides presenting their cases. But I'm not a medical person, and I'm not qualified to opine on medical matters: I wonder if an autopsy - if the family will allow it - will uncover much after all this time. My personal opinion, though, is that the lawyer the family contacted is milking the case for all the publicity he can get.

[JI7]

26. the problem i see is that the mother says when she started bleeding they did not get anyone

for a long time to come and do anything about it.

[Retrograde]

41. "The mother says"

As I said before, we're getting one side of the story. The hospital and its staff are legally barred from commenting, per HIPAA. We don't know the details of the operation, the health of the child beforehand, any complicating factors, or what the post-op treatment was. Unless the family gives permission to release the medical records, or a malpractice suit goes to court, we will not have all the facts and background.

The mother may be right: when one sees one's child bleeding profusely any delay in treatment may seem like a long time.

[MiniMe]

28. Agree

There was definitely something that went terribly wrong, and it should be investigated. But the surgery was not your "normal" tonsillectomy, they did other procedures that may have caused the problems that occurred. My point was that it was not just a routine tonsillectomy

[riderinthestorm]

24. Any medical procedure carries risk. My sister coded during a colonoscopy

Destroyed her kidneys and liver (and yes she's fine now 18 months after a double transplant).

It's less important to me whether the surgery was routine or more complex than any failures in the post-op care which looks plausible in this case.

This poor girl. This poor family.

[Iggo]

27. There is no hope.

Respect her life. Accept her death.

[Sheldon Cooper]

33. For everyone who is so scornful of these parents, can you at least TRY

to put yourself in their shoes? It's only been three weeks, for christ fucking sake. Can you give them a goddamn minute to adjust to their new reality? No - you heap scorn on them, call her a piece of meat, and say any number of horrifying things about them and this whole situation.

If things are much the same three months from now, you may, MAY, have a point. But jesus, the lack of compassion is incredible.

[Drew2510]

34. Yes, it would be terrible!!! n/t

[Yo_Mama]

37. Yes, the lack of empathy is astounding! n/t

[uppityperson]

44. Thank you. Having worked with people in these situations, there is nothing wrong with taking

time. I helped care for a man who had been in a coma for years. Give the family time, acknowledge how awful it is, how difficult it is to lose hope, and leave them alone if you can not be kind or compasisonate.

[warrant46]

40. Who is going to pay for this ?

Maybe a few "ORGANIZED RELIGIONS" can chip in a dollar or 2 for their science experiment.