Pelosi: Snowden should 'come back and face the music'
Source: San Francisco Chronicle
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says fugitive Edward Snowden the intelligence analyst who blew the whistle on National Security Agency data-gathering of millions of Americans phone records and other surveillance should not be granted clemency, but should come back and face the music for what he did.
Pelosi, D-San Francisco, who serves on the House Intelligence Committee, was asked about Snowden during a meeting Monday with The Chronicles editorial board.
... Im not at a place where I think he should be coming back with clemency, Pelosi said. I think he should come back and face the music for what he did
(but) the music shouldnt be the death penalty or life in prison.
... If he is a patriot as he supposedly is he will come home and use the opportunity to make his case to the public, Pelosi said.
Read more: http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2014/01/06/house-democratic-leader-nancy-pelosi-says-edward-snowden-should-come-back-and-face-the-music-for-leaks/
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)billhicks76
(5,082 posts)They probably got to her years ago
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)That's right where it needs to be. I hope you dropped the mic and walked off the stage.
QuestForSense
(653 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Why should Snowden face the music if Bush didn't?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)since Bush wasn't impeached.
--------> <-----------
Yes, I would love for the Chimperor to be behind bars, but let us not get kindergarten about this.
olddad56
(5,732 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)What would make things right in my mind is Bush having to serve time in a prison of the Abu Graib type for the rest of his miserable life.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,335 posts)crim son
(27,464 posts)irritating as hell to have to listen to Pelosi on this particular issue.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Dem leadership is so out of touch with both the majority of the Democratic party and the majority of Americans. It is laughable.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)The big criminals are off limits but the whistle blowers... not so fast.
I have had it with rich, sellout DINOS. Nancy needs to STFU
Uncle Joe
(58,402 posts)raccoon
(31,118 posts)Autumn
(45,120 posts)So your moral lecture means nothing to me other than hollow words.
Let's see you hold the NSA's feet to the fire first -- and then deal with the person who had the courage to go public with the misdeeds.
christx30
(6,241 posts)to get us into a war with Iraq that cost us trillions of dollars and thousands of lives.
warrant46
(2,205 posts)In fact they are about to continue the War In the Afghan cesspool well beyond 2014
christx30
(6,241 posts)Can't let those war profiteers go hungry now, can we? What about their children, starving on their private beaches?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)She profits from war. Just like Boxer, and countless other congress assholes.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Seems like he is getting dragged along for the ride rather than being a enthusiastic architect.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)He will be tried in secret and then disappear and therein lies the problem with Pelosi's statement.
Now, if he were to testify before Congress in open, public, sessions, I could see her 'face the music' push making sense.
At this point? There would be no way I would come back if I were him. After what happened to Chelsea Manning, I wouldn't trust the US judicial system/government without something ironclad, public, and in writing.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)And I feel anyone who says something so stupid should have his teeth kicked in. As the other poster said, this is the same fucker who took impeachment off the table. She's just as guilty as Bush to my way of thinking.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)My dad is a total right wing rushbot. And when he was making fun of Pelosi for saying "we have to pass it to see what's in it," I couldn't muster a defense. I didn't even want to. That's the kind of stupid shit we expect from a Palin or a Bush. I'll give him that much, it was a profoundly stupid thing to say.
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)So the people advocating political violence are correct? People who disagree with us should have their teeth kicked in?
Sad.
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
Address to Latin American diplomats at the White House (13 March 1962) [4]
--JFK
We've tried playing by the rules and it's a sucker's game.
rpannier
(24,333 posts)Thanks for that civics lesson Nancy
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Piss off!
If you had done your job, Snowden wouldn't have been needed.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)I will never forgive her. When she was at the California state convention in 2007 she agreed that Bush was a war criminal and then she "took impeachment off the table" and now she wants Snowden to "face the music"? It should be roaring in her ears.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Surely she has Democratic Funders......or....????
She should never have said such a thing.........if she is a Democrat..that is.
BlueToTheBone
(3,747 posts)and she is very powerful, but sometimes, I don't really understand who her true masters are.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)cvoogt
(949 posts)Just because he is in Russia doesn't mean he's off the radar entirely. He has done some videos for example. It's like Stalin saying "don't worry, I won't send you to Siberia, honest!" Yeah right.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Had in the US. Oh yea, he is on their radar along with other "friends".
on point
(2,506 posts)Oh yes Obama needs to grant him a full complete pardon and start lacking up NSA officials who violated constitution
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)24601
(3,962 posts)As Gallagher said, ""Well, what is the limit?"
jakefrep
(3,982 posts)Throw his punk coward criminal ass in jail and throw away the key already/
KoKo
(84,711 posts)How could she even think of saying such a thing?
Is she leaving her Dem Party Behind for something ELSE.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)last1standing
(11,709 posts)Then I'll give these comments a little more respect. Pelosi had the power to see the bush murderers tried and did nothing. She has lost all credibility in this situation.
kath
(10,565 posts)And I haven't seen her pushing for prosecution of all the criminal banksters either.
On edit -- oh yeah, and the NSA too.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)ProgressSaves
(123 posts)His fate isn't all that important to the everyday lives of the American electorate.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)If Snowden does return to the US to "face the music", do you honestly think he'll have anything resembling a fair trial? Do you think he'll be treated fairly or even humanely when in custody? I don't. I expect that Snowden would be locked up quietly somewhere, in all likelihood tortured - and possibly executed.
What happens to Snowden, I believe, IS important to the American electorate, primarily because we can no longer (if we ever could) reasonably expect such a man to be treated fairly or justly. Personally, I hope that our American authorities never get their hands on him. Someone has to do something about this NSA gone wild - and as congress either can't or won't, it's going to be largely up to individuals of the American electorate to do so.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)We all aren't that important...not our rights, our liberties, our Constitution...to Nancy Pelosi.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)keeping check on the NSA. The system is rotten.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)on them and they failed miserably. Now they want a scapegoat. Nancy is part of the wealthy ruling elite.
hugo_from_TN
(1,069 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)but they are few and far between. They believe their wealth means they are successful and destine to decide what's best for us.
bucolic_frolic
(43,257 posts)and she is not about to go out on that limb with Mr. Snowden
Now, it is an open invitation for him to return, and if the public's political
winds blow in his favor, and if the uproar is sufficient to influence Congress,
she's not going to go against that, I suspect.
So this is a lesson on how one survives in the political realm for decades.
Never go with anything controversial, don't go places the polls don't lead you.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)We don't want Fascism Nancy .. you are there to uphold the Constitution .. Hello 4th amendment girl .. what's up with that?
Snowden needs to stay right where he is .. they want to fry his ass too badly .. for him to ever get a fair trail. Look what they've done to Chelsea Manning? I feel so sorry for her ... they came down on her way to hard .. they treated her like a dog.
bucolic_frolic
(43,257 posts)It's first and foremost about how they maintain their power, and
secondarily about their principles and the people they serve.
Because, if they fall from power, they can't do either of the other two!
olddad56
(5,732 posts)"Face the Music".
on point
(2,506 posts)in Bush crimes for failure to stop see to it he was prosecuted
struggle4progress
(118,327 posts)Monk06
(7,675 posts)If he ever sets foot on US soil he'll go down the super max memory hole never to be seen or heard from again.
truthisfreedom
(23,152 posts)Seems like a likely candidate for something unusual.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Sorry, he's still going to be releasing more damaging information. Tough luck.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)olddad56
(5,732 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)-p
Thank You
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)Demeter
(85,373 posts)I think your treason should be addressed, before anyone else's
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)seriously.
you obviously don't even know what a fascist is but it just sounds uncool enough for Pelosi as it does for the President. I guess.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)You certainly spend a lot of time claiming giddiness from my posts.
People will say we're in love.
Of course it's important that the word, "fascism" be mocked in *any* context, as though it could not possibly happen here. Just like it's important to mock the implementation, in the United States of America, of a mass surveillance state aimed at citizens; militarization of our police forces; criminalization of investigative journalism; persecution of whistleblowers and journalists; assaults on the Constitution; and subversion of our democratic government for corporate power and profit at the expense of the people....
...All these things must be painted by both corporate Republicans and the corporate-bankrolled Third Way as mere politics as usual.
By the way, I was just teasing above. I understand that if you hadn't come to deride the word, "fascism," another of the full-timers would have stepped in and handled that for you.
Happy Banking. Happy Third Way.
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Is there a cover?
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)i`m sure the putin would allow him to publicly make his case to the united state and the world.
there`s no reason for him to come home especially when he renounces his us citizenship.
reddread
(6,896 posts)lets see her face the music.
RedstDem
(1,239 posts)what a grand statement...damn we need real people in the peoples house...
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Remember if the sky is falling, it only hurts if you are below it
olddad56
(5,732 posts)maybe we cancel elections in favor of just putting the candidates up for bid on Ebay.
sendero
(28,552 posts)... (and I'm pretty sure that would include Pelosi) should be impeached for failing in their basic duty to oversee rogue operations.
gussmith
(280 posts)Why should Snowden come back to face the music when the powers that be exempt the banksters, politicians and the rest of the greedy?
Solly Mack
(90,779 posts)<-
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)That is an argument to have no laws enforced. It is an argument for anarchy. It is an argument that asks government to stop being government.
You do get that Nancy Pelosi, as a responsible government official is only doing what responsible government officials should do by calling for Snowden to be treated the same as any other thief. He is not a US patriot, he is an accused felon who has fled to escape prosecution.
GeorgeGist
(25,322 posts)looked the other way while Bush committed war crimes?
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)not a law enforcement officer. You do get that the United States has never prosecuted a President for war crimes.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)America doesn't need Democrats to destroy themselves with extremely unpopular positions right now. This is a pivotal point in our history and we do not need another 20 year Reagan era.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)somehow destroys Democrats in your opinion.
That doesn't make sense on any level.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Ask the Republicans.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)it is only a major issue with Libe4rtarians and anarchists, groups that never have and never will vote for Democrats.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)are far more serious than mere theft, as are the offenses against our democracy by the NSA. The double standard in Nancy Pelosi's position is very hypocritical, rendering it bereft of any moral legitimacy.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)not one has ever tried an elected leader for the brutality during war. There is no double standard. In a representative democracy if you don't like your leaders, you vote them out, you don't get to arrest and prosecute them because you disagree with what they did or how they did it.
Snowden is an accused criminal. He stole and made his theft public.
You may not like it, but it's one hell of a lot better than any other system of government that humans have invented.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Quoting for posterity.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)a reason for that.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)I think people are starting to tune you out but that one was worth highlighting
You are welcome.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Your attempt to excuse it, is rambling and incoherent. The fact that you consider the US political power structure a "representative democracy", in no way, excuses crimes against humanity. Attempting to rationalize them away while condemning a far lesser crime, is the very definition of a double standard.
And the invasion of Iraq was not something that 'just happened'. It was an act of naked aggression against another country, that was clearly predicated on lies and conspiracy by the US government, and its sole purpose was to advance the self-serving interests of the US political power structure, at a tremendous cost to the Iraqi people.
You see the world the way you do, because it suits your emotional interests to do so, not because you have thought about the issues logically.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)ronnie624
(5,764 posts)Wars without international legality (e.g. not out of self-defense nor sanctioned by the United Nations Security Council) can be considered wars of aggression; however, this alone usually does not constitute the definition of a war of aggression; certain wars may be unlawful but not aggressive (a war to settle a boundary dispute where the initiator has a reasonable claim, and limited aims, is one example).
The International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, called the waging of aggressive war "essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."[2] Article 39 of the United Nations Charter provides that the UN Security Council shall determine the existence of any act of aggression and "shall make recommendations, or decide what measures shall be taken in accordance with Articles 41 and 42, to maintain or restore international peace and security"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)regardless of Bush's Iraq war.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)because they want a 'thief' to 'come back and face the music', while allowing mass murderers to escape justice.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)and that these politicians allowed them to go free. As I pointed out previously, Congress is not a law enforcement agency and they have exactly the same right to express an opinion as other Americans.
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)like George Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. They were allowed to go free by Nancy Pelosi and other political leaders, when they decided that the administration's crimes did not merit investigation.
One does not have to be perfect to see such things correctly. Simple logic is an excellent guide in such matters.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)right? Or are you saying your "simple logic" was missed by the entire USA's justice establishment and almost all of the world's?
ronnie624
(5,764 posts)You realize you're defending the Bush Administration's illegal invasion of Iraq, on a progressive board, don't you?
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)No I am not defending the invasion of Iraq.
I realize the reality of charging an elected President with mass murder because the invasion of Iraq was arguably illegal. I realize the idiocy of thinking that because some crimes go unpunished, every criminal should be released.
1000words
(7,051 posts)jsr
(7,712 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Talented guy. Anyway NSA-gate is a purely partisan food fight, and has been from it's earliest inception. Personally I don't believe Greenwald's "I got an email from Snowball" story because he originally claimed last summer that his "editors" had summoned him to NY to give him and Poitras their instructions, and he'd had no idea who Snowden was and had nothing to do with persuading him.
Once the tale took off with a little help from our media friends the story changed into the cornball epiphany GG was shopping around last month. Anyway Pelosi is no fool and the fact that she's even discussing "clemency" is a credit to her self-control. To put it simply NSA-gate is a hit job just like Fast and Furious-gate, AP-gate, IRS-gate, ACA-gate and every other Benghazi to come down the pike.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Out to get honorable Democrats like Clapper and Alexander!
ps - and the 10/11 Reagan/Bush FISA court judges!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I have a high regard for both but Warren was a Republican for most of her life and sometimes I think she forgets which side she's on, or maybe her staff does. And Sanders is in a league of his own.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)and a majority of Americans on this issue. But not a majority of Republicans!
Doesn't sound like a winner to me.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)as have his fourth-force devotees. I think your perception of how this is playing among the electorate might be wrong. Way wrong.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)It would have been worse if the Republicans hadn't turned the crazy up to 11.
A Democratic submission to the right is not the way go. Outliers like Rand are just barking because there is a Dem president right now. Right wingers love the NSA and the NSA with its enabling court is stacked with right wingers.
I think your opinion on how undamaging this is going to be in 2014 is wrong. Just look at this forum. Everywhere I go in public people are making jokes about NSA spying. Not the good kind. The bitter kind.
Do you think this improves Democratic chances in 2014? The country wants to go left, not right.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I didn't say it wouldn't hurt us in 2014. It's obviously meant to, just like Benghazi and the others were thoughtfully designed to inflict the most damage. That's the Bushler playbook and it was also Nixon's: make Dems defend an unpopular war, program, or policy and presto, another GOP liability becomes ours.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)And make Republicans own it. Point out every day that the FISA court is Bush/Reagan judges. That the Patriot act was under Bush. Demand that it be repealed and the NSA defunded.
This would be popular with both Democratic voters and Americans in general. What we don't need is for Democrats to feel betrayed again as in Vietnam and for pubs to just get swept in.
So Pelosi should switch gears 180 degrees.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The problem is that we're stuck with the laws we've got and also with a bizarre Congress that makes changing them impossible. To the extent that Obama was able to act with the Dem majorities he had, he did. That where all those compliance reports "leaked" by WaPol and the Guardian came from. I have some in my journal if you'd like to review them.
The other part if it is that the NSA is largely engaged in cyberwarfare with China and Russia and as I understand it that's a viable mission but not one that responsible politicians like Obama and Pelosi are going to shoot their mouths off about. So we're stuck in yet another unwinnable position, like trying to get gun control legislation past this idiot Congress.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)It has been a losing strategy for Democrats in the past and will continue to be a loser in the future.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)and would have changed a lot more were it not for these constant scandal bots which some of us fall hard for every single time.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Excuses will do little when it is time for America to go to the polls.
Nothing to see here. Trust the NSA and Pelosi because they really, really, REALLY care about us proles.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)(As others have pointed out here.) Sheez.
nilesobek
(1,423 posts)Blowing in the fierce winds of money, power and corruption.
TriplD
(176 posts)...there would have been no need for a Snowden?
A proper investigation into the crimes of BushCo would have exposed this crap.
Shame on you Nancy!
DonViejo
(60,536 posts)On the other hand, what you have to weigh that against is the fact that he has gone a very long way in educating the people of our country and the people of the world about the power of private agency in terms of their surveillance over people of this country, over foreign leaders, and what they are doing.
So, I think you got to weigh the two. My own belief is that I think, I would hope that the United States government could kind of negotiate some plea bargain with him, some form of clemency. I think it wouldn't be a good idea or fair to him to have to spend his entire remaining life abroad, not being able to come back to his country.
So I would hope that there's a price that he has to pay, but I hope it is not a long prison sentence or exile from his country.
BLITZER: You wouldn't give him clemency, though, and let him off scot-free?
SANDERS: No.
BLITZER: All right, Senator, thanks very much for joining us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024292659
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Na Na Na Na... Na Na Na Na... Hey Hey Hey.. Goodbye!
Orsino
(37,428 posts)warrant46
(2,205 posts)woo me with science
(32,139 posts)as does every other Third Way predator in Congress.
We have taught these thieves and liars that they can promise to represent us and then betray us repeatedly without consequence. It's past time for a sweeping message otherwise.
Wernothelpless
(410 posts)keep their mouths out of The NSA and The Bankers crotches ... you're an embarrassment, Nancy ...