Palestinians Resuming Bid For Further UN Recognition, Move Could Derail Talks With Israel

[Purveyor]

Source: Associated Press

RAMALLAH, West Bank — President Mahmoud Abbas says the Palestinians are "immediately" resuming their bid to win further U.N. recognition and has signed applications for 15 U.N. agencies and conventions.

Abbas' surprise move late Tuesday could derail U.S.-brokered peace talks with Israel. There was no immediate Israeli comment.

The talks resumed in late July, and Abbas said at the time he would suspend attempts to join U.N. agencies and treaties for nine months. Israel, in turn, said it would release 104 veteran Palestinian prisoners in four groups.

However, Israel has balked at releasing the last group.

Abbas said Tuesday "we will apply to 15 agencies and conventions immediately" because Israel failed to keep its word. He signed the applications in a televised ceremony.

Read more: http://www.startribune.com/world/253340811.html

[BronxBoy]

1. Can someone please explain

why Isreal would be opposed to this?

[cpwm17]

2. Israel doesn't recognize the Palestinians' right to exist

Anything that gives the Palestinians recognition Israel will oppose.

[BronxBoy]

5. Thanks

[JDPriestly]

11. It would depend on what boundaries Palestine wanted recognized.

The US seems (from what I have read) to back the 1967 boundaries.

The application to the UN cannot be assessed without knowing how the Palestinians are defining the country they want recognized. Are they planning to incorporate a lot of land on which Israelis are now living? That could lead to more violence. Same old. Same old.

Would the new Palestine attempt to pass the "right to return" through the UN? Then war.

If the boundaries of a new Palestine are reasonable and allow for a reasonable two-state solution within which both Palestinians and Israels can survive, then you can blame Israel if it rejects the alternative. But if the boundaries of Palestine satisfy the Palestinians "right of return" even of younger people born after 1948 who never lived in Israel, then you have to ask where do the many Israelis, the young Israelis who were born in Israel and have never known any other home, "return" to?

Would this plan just create another countryless people of the generations of Israels who were either born in Israel, cannot go back to the countries in which they were born (because of antisemitism, anti-Jewish sentiment there), and others who have no place to "return" to?

The problems are immense. The Palestinians and Israelis need to work out their mutual futures at the negotiating table.

So many DUers never stop to think that just routing Israelis or destroying their haven will not solve a problem. It will just lead to additional, more serious problems. A negotiated peace recognizing the needs of both Israelis and Palestinians is the only answer. And Kerry is the man who could negotiate that peace.

If this report is true, the Palestinians are the ones trying to destroy and stop the peace talks. They are the ones trying to circumvent them.

[azurnoir]

19. Israel violated the terms of the talks-The state of Palestine was recognized 11/29/2012

the UNGA recognized Palestine as East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza period

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

US: No Palestinian prisoner release is violation of terms of talks

Israel's failure to release a final batch of Palestinian prisoners, scheduled for Saturday night, amounts to a violation of the terms of the original agreement reached between Israel and the Palestinians at the start of talks nine months ago, brokered by the United States, US officials have told their Israeli counterparts.

The outline of that original agreement was never published in full. But Israel publicly acknowledged its commitment to four prisoner releases as a condition of peace talks with the Palestinians.

http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/US-to-Israel-No-Palestinian-prisoner-release-is-violation-of-terms-of-talks-346878

essentially IMO your was a remouthing of "they want to push us into the seeeeeeea" which is not true as Abbas has asked for the 1967 borders that being East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza as the Palestinian state nothing more

[JDPriestly]

20. Rumor has it that those are the areas that are being assumed in the current negotiations.

We shall see what the outcome is.

[azurnoir]

21. They are being more than assumed those are the areas Abbas asked the UN for period

[Larkspur]

3. They don't want Palestinians to have a homeland in what Israel considers its land?

Why do you think Israel keeps allowing its Jewish citizens and immigrants to build settlements on Palestinian lands?
They have no plans to broker a peace with the Palestinians.

[BronxBoy]

6. Thanks

[MosheFeingold]

12. "Palestinian Lands" is a difficult topic

It's all a mixed bag.

Most of the lands in dispute were bought fair-and-square between the absentee owners (typically Turkish) and various Jewish interest. The previous tenant farmers (who were generally arab) did not recognize the sale.

Other parts, like in East Jerusalem, were mixed Jewish/Arab/Turk/Druse for 2,000 years, but there was a pogrom in 1929 where the Muslim Arabs (supported by various European interests) ethnically cleansed the area of Jewish people and Christian Arabs/Copts to a lesser extent. (This is how "Arab East Jerusalem" because "Arab.&quot

A lot of the land captured in 1929 was recaptured by Israel and given back to the families who were expelled in 1929.

More are arms-length purchases between Arab farmers and various Jewish interests voided by the Palestinians who made it a death-penalty crime to sell land to Jews and the PA now claims ownership over those lands.

Some was certainly captured in war, but its a distinct minority of what is in dispute.

[Rhiannon12866]

28. Thanks for the history lesson

I've been watching the terrific series on PBS.

[MosheFeingold]

29. Sure

My wife (now recently deceased) was an Israeli Arab (muslim, which is a little different politically in recent years than the Christian arabs) who, after about 10 years of marriage, converted to Judaism.

We've always been sensitive to all sides of the issue. It's not nearly as simple as anyone would like to believe.

[Mosby]

7. Because a permanent solution to the Israel Palestinian conflict

Can only come though negotiations per UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338.

If the UN General Assembly decides to vote for a Palestinian state outside the confines of 242 and 338 they would then be in a legal conflict with the Security Council.

[Heywood J]

22. Ah, you mean the Permanent Veto Committee.

Where every shred of binding action ever proposed is permanently vetoed by someone.

[MosheFeingold]

8. It's a package deal.

Bibi has proposed a two state solution, with full UN etc recognition of a Palestinian State --- BUT, that Palestinian state must agree that Israel can exist as a Jewish state and change its constitution to not have as a pillar the ethnic cleansing of all Jewish people from the area.

The Palestinians refuse to get off high center and swear off the desire for genocide.

Kind of hard to meet in the middle when the leaders (not so much the people) on the Arab side demand your death.

[leftynyc]

9. Prepare for the onslaught

This site is of the mind that the Palestinians are innocent little kittens who have brought nothing on themselves. Here's just another instance where saving face means more to them than their children growing up to live another generation with hatred in their hearts and nothing in their pockets. And the people on this board will cheer this nonsense on. And who gets hurt? Only the Palestinians. They're playing right into Bibi's hands.

[Comrade Grumpy]

10. Right. Those mean old Palestinians are bullying poor Israel again.

If only they would quit putting their necks under Israel's boots.

[JDPriestly]

14. The Palestinians are being stupid.

They should agree to go back to the land they held at some point in history. I have heard them talk of reinstating the 1967 borders. That may not be realistic, but the Palestinians could stand to retake land they once had. That would be a huge victory for them if they could agree to recognize Israel. The two countries would be able to make good economic progress. As it is, Israel is pretty prosperous, but Palestinians trade on their poverty. They play up their poverty which is no doubt real and get aid and assistance. But that is not the way to live. The Palestinians are very talented, capable people. If they made peace with their neighbors in Israel and enforced that peace within Palestine punishing those who violated it, Palestine could become a more prosperous place to live. It's up to the Palestinians themselves.

[leftynyc]

16. Spare me

I never said any such thing so don't put words in my mouth. If you think this will help the Palestinians get what they want, you're delusional. They're not only hurting themselves, they're doing exactly what Bibi wants them to do. The Israeli's will be just fine and the Palestinians will continue to suffer - what a great victory.

[Fozzledick]

17. Well, they could knock off the rocket, bomb and sniper attacks.

I know, it's unreasonable to ask that of them because Jooos.

[MosheFeingold]

13. It's all about money

Yasser Arafat died a billionaire. Hamas is well on their way.

You have to keep a state of war going to have that kind of graft.

[JDPriestly]

15. Precisely.

I am not Jewish. My dad was a Protestant minister who sympathized with the Palestinians way back in the 1950s and 1960s. I have been watching the events in Israel and Palestine since that time.

The Palestinian people are hoodwinked. Their leaders just put one fast one after another over them. And why? To enrich the leadership.

Palestinians are just as talented and capable as other people. They could be far more prosperous than they are (and probably even have more land and more bargaining capacity with Israel and other countries in the world) if they just made peace and were done with it.

The Palestinian leaders always seem to enrich themselves at the expense of the Palestinians. I have watched this process since I was a child. I don't know how they do it, but they do. I remember my father's great concern about the Palestinian refugee camps and the need to aid the Palestinians. The aid never seemed to make a difference no matter how much there was. So much of it went into the wrong pockets.

The Palestinians need to wake up and demand a deal with Israel. UN recognition of their state is a red herring. It won't solve anything. Palestinians need to negotiate their boundaries and punish any Palestinian who attacks Israel. That is how they will get peace and prosperity.

I have no doubt Israel would work with a peaceful, law-abiding Palestinian neighboring state. Peace is the key.

[Heywood J]

23. What about when that neighboring state

takes over the area containing mining operations in the Dead Sea and other economic interests? Or when settlers in Bibi's new settlements refuse to go home?

Peace will also allow the spotlight to be shined on all the other uncomfortable domestic policy areas like accommodation of the ultra-Orthodox. War makes a useful distraction for the powerful.

[JDPriestly]

25. All the more reason to negotiate a settlement.

[Scootaloo]

27. What should Ukraine cede to Russia as part of a peace settlement?

And surely Russia should have first say in what terms are and are not acceptable, yes?

[Scootaloo]

26. What a abnormal perception of reality you have

[debunkthis]

4. Considering the fact that

the Palestinians have been in peace talks with the Israelis for most of my life with very little to show for it, I don't think there is much to derail.

[Purveyor]

18. NYT: Kerry-Abbas Visit Canceled as Mideast Talks Falter

By JODI RUDOREN and MICHAEL R. GORDONAPRIL 1, 2014

JERUSALEM — The fraught Mideast peace talks were thrown into confusion on Tuesday as a meeting between Secretary of State John Kerry and President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority was canceled after Mr. Abbas moved to join 15 international agencies, a move vigorously opposed by Israel and the United States.

Mr. Abbas, who has been under pressure from other Palestinian leaders and the public to press his case for statehood through United Nations agencies, said Tuesday that he was taking that course because Israel had failed to release a fourth batch of long-serving Palestinian prisoners by the end of March, as promised when the talks started last summer.

“We do not want to use this right against anybody or confront anybody,” Mr. Abbas said as he signed the papers, in a speech broadcast live on Palestinian television. “We don’t want to collide with the U.S. administration. We want a good relationship with Washington because it helped us and exerted huge efforts. But because we did not find ways for solution, this becomes our right.”

Israel and the United States have argued that Palestinian membership in these international agencies is a mistaken approach to Palestinian statehood, which should instead be negotiated directly between Israel and the Palestinians. Congress passed a law saying such membership could trigger a withdrawal of United States financial aid to the Palestinian Authority and other steps.

Mr. Kerry, who had flown from Israel to Brussels for a NATO meeting on Tuesday and was planning to return to see Mr. Abbas in Ramallah, in the West Bank, on Wednesday, said he was no longer making the trip.

MORE...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/02/world/middleeast/jonathan-pollard.html?google_editors_picks=true&_r=0

[2banon]

24. This report flies in the face of events preceding the move to resume their bid

This report uses the phrase "surprise move" (late Tuesday). This wasn't a surprise. The ball was in Israel's court, and they deliberately ignored agreement to release the 104 vet prisoners, forcing Palestinians hand to resume U.N. bid.

This is insane. Bebe's playing games and laughing his ass off, he certainly isn't interested in peace in the middle east.