Ukraine leader Yatsenyuk offers powers to troubled east

[dipsydoodle]

Source: BBC News



Ukraine's interim prime minister has offered to devolve more powers to eastern regions, where pro-Russian separatists are defying the government.

He is holding talks with regional leaders in Donetsk, where activists demanding self-rule are holding a big government building.

It is not clear if Arseniy Yatsenyuk's offer will satisfy the separatists.

The threat of Russia cutting gas deliveries has now prompted Ukraine to seek gas from French and German firms.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26984799

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edited : BBC changed both their headline and the narrative using the same link.

[freshwest]

1. Compromise is needed. Better do it before they break apart. n/t

[dipsydoodle]

2. The 48 hour deadline he gave runs out in about an hour max.

Be interesting to see the outcome.

From 11am GMT Wednesday :

Ukraine Hands Separatists 48-Hour Deadline http://news.sky.com/story/1239576/ukraine-hands-separatists-48-hour-deadline

[jakeXT]

3. So it's "Kamikaze Yats" vs. some characters from Game of Thrones ?

[dipsydoodle]

4. Odd you should mention that

I'd wondered if Arseniy Yatsenyuk was taking the Lannisters with him.

[Fred Sanders]

5. Honestly, any one, without a massive intelligence apparatus at their disposal, have a clue what is

going on in the Ukraine, the 70% of Americans who could not find it on a world map need not apply.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Its what you read and where

which dictates what you're told to believe.

[freshwest]

15. And who pays for the words. And what behavior they want to promote.

In general, American media promotes dismissing other human beings, denigrating all living things, buying crap, and voting Republican or Libertarian. Or not voting at all, giving the same result, because the only positive action they promote is voting for the billionaire owner candidate.

This has been full spectrum methodology in American media since the eighties and increasingly no opposing voices are allowed, except to be overwhelmed and mocked, until real people don't talk about doing anything democratic. There's no dividing line between entertainment, advertisements, alleged news outlets and formerly believed educational venues who blatantly censor while promoting Koch. theocratic and RWNJ views as factual.

It's an ugly process. They'll create the next generation of idiots, who will react like dogs trained by whistles and incapable of self-governing. They will be given as much respect as they deserve by those with knowledge, and that will be none.

[another_liberal]

7. Here are some more details of what the so-called PM had to say.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-protest-deadline-expires-856/

[Boreal]

16. From your link

The U-turn comes after Ukraine’s elite Alpha unit reportedly refused to obey an order to besiege protester-held buildings. At a session of law enforcement officials in Donetsk, one of the Alpha commanders said that he and his men are a force intended for rescuing hostages and fighting terrorism and will only act in accordance with the law, local media reported.

The unconfirmed act of defiance comes days after the siege by police of a protesters-seized building in Kharkov, which ended with dozens of activists being arrested. On Thursday, a local police lieutenant-colonel spoke to the media, claiming that he and other officers had been deceived by the Kiev authorities. He claimed that they were sent to take over the building under the pretext that it was held by dangerous armed bandits. In fact the protesters had only improvised clubs and offered no resistance to the storming troops.

The officer, Andrey Chuikov, said he would no longer take “criminal” orders and announced his resignation from the police, adding that he would be sacked anyway by his superiors for speaking to the press.


How refreshing to see countrymen refusing to be turned on countrymen. In the US they'd just send in SWAT teams of psychopathic cops to murder everyone.

[another_liberal]

21. An unelected, "interim government" . . .

This is exactly what we publicly threatened to sanction President Yanukovich if he dared to do; that is, use armed police, and even military personnel, to violently suppress demonstrations. An unelected, "interim government" such as that in Kiev launches these attacks, and our State Department has little to say, certainly no warnings issued about the criminality of using armed force, "Against one's own people." That only applied, it seems, to President Yanukovich.

[bemildred]

8. Good. So much for empty threats. nt

[The Magistrate]

9. Waiting Them Out is Probably A Wise Course, Sir

I doubt the interim P.M. could actually get much of anything by way of serious concession to these people through the Kiev parliament before the upcoming elections. Their position is shabby enough they deserve nothing but car-fare home and maybe a sandwich....

[bemildred]

10. Fewer threats and more talk is a good idea, Sir.

And certainly that means waiting them out, if not talking things out. And it would be well for everybody to wait until there is a legitimately elected government before trying to set any policiies in stone. The next government of Ukraine is going to need all the legitimacy it can get. There have been more than enough wars going back and forth in Ukraine as it is.

[The Magistrate]

11. Agree On All Counts, Sir

And a month or so is plenty of time for boredom to set in among people who have voluntarily jailed themselves in a building with nothing but their own foolishness for company....

[bemildred]

12. I will say that I am pleased to see Yats is getting in line with the federeralization idea.

I expect that it will be necessary to keep that from going too far, but if Ukraine is to remain whole (minus Crimea) it must find a way to be inclusive and respectful of differences of opinion and feeling. Now if they can just manage to not be under the thumb of either the East or the West, they may have the chance to effectively pursue their own collective self-interest.

[The Magistrate]

13. Depends On How Far The Federal Arrangement Goes, Sir

Anything which allows a claim of 'state sovereignty' in the style of our theoretical framework here would be merely a way-station to dissolution and annexation of the Donets basin by Russia. Even if that were to come about through medium of a local referendum, the thing has been so tainted by the threat of force that it would lose nothing of its disruptive effect on stability and peace long-term. Just as it is acceptable, if far from ideal, that Russia emerge from this with Crimea, it is unacceptable, and a seriously damaging outcome long-term, that Russia should emerge from this with the Donets.

A provincial arrangement, with local elections for governor and a provincial assembly, and so some scope for local regulation, would likely be a good idea, so long as there is no pretense a province is anything more than a jurisdiction within the whole, and under the national government.

There really ought to be a Central European Bloc, comprised of the former Warsaw Pact nations, and the western portions of the old Soviet Union, separate from both the EU/NATO and Russia, and rather than the 'eastward ho!' policy pursued in the immediate wake of the Cold War, the consolidation of such a bloc ought to have been the focus of policy: a sort of Little Entente, but with some serious heft and real teeth, could have been cemented, and would be a very useful thing just now....

[bemildred]

14. +1. nt

[Boreal]

17. Whatever remains of rump Ukraine

is already firmly under control of the west (banksters). IMF austerity is coming (taking away home utility subsidies; mass firing of government employees; devaluing the currency; PRIVATIZATION of public assets; continued rule by oligarchs). For those in the east and and south who want referendums, even regional autonomy won't free them from that, only total independence or joining Russia would. That said, I don't know if the average citizens understand the details of IMF "help" and how miserable their lives are about to become.

[bemildred]

18. I think it depends on how the federalization comes out, how strong the regions are.

Our states here are often successful in forging their own economic policies (and others, of course, are not). The Russian proposals call for a great deal of independence, for reasons of their own of course.

It is true there is a danger that the IMF will bring it's debt servitude to Ukraine, but I don't think it's a done thing yet, I expect there will be objections to an interim government making such long-term and far-reaching commitments (and rightly so).

It may also dawn on the EU that letting Ukraine be exploited ruthlessly sends the wrong message.

On the other hand, Ukraine will need a strong and united central goverment if it is to hold its own in international affairs, so figuring out where the balance lies can be challenging.

[dipsydoodle]

19. The strongest regions

will those who maintain sales of industrial goods to and manufacture arms for Russia there being no market for those goods in the EU.

Other than at prices which the EU dictate there seems to be little or no market for Ukraine's goods in the EU anyway especially given EU farm subsidies to member nations.

[bemildred]

20. I agree they have to maintain friendly relations to Russia, and not just for economic reasons.

But they need to have friendly relations with the West too. In a multi-national state, everybody has to get along or they all lose.