Ukraine bans entry for all Russian males aged 16-60: Aeroflot

[Bosonic]

Source: AFP/Hurriyet Daily News

Ukraine has banned entry to its territory for all Russian males aged between 16-60, the Russian flagship carrier Aeroflot said Thursday in a warning to passengers.

"In line with an official order received by the company, all Russian male citizens aged from 16-60 will be refused entry into Ukraine," Aeroflot said, adding that exceptions would only be made in extreme cases.

Read more: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ukraine-bans-entry-for-all-russian-males-aged-16-60-aeroflot.aspx?pageID=238&nID=65201&NewsCatID=353

[AgingAmerican]

1. Good

nt

[LisaL]

2. Seriously?

So what is Ukraine going to do with Russian men who are already living inside it?

[AgingAmerican]

4. Seriously

Russian male citizens already living in the Ukraine? Watch them very closely.

[LisaL]

6. That would be a lot of people to watch.

[newthinking]

10. Wow. folks being racist much? Maybe intern everyone like the Japanese?

Bunch of right wing trolls here

[AgingAmerican]

12. Do you believe

That the Ukraine should allow Russian males of fighting age into their country, given that Russia obviously wants to violently invade? Is that 'racism'? What race are they being 'racist' against?

[newthinking]

15. Bullshit. You are expressing racism. Use your head.

Not only is this right wing racist crap, but totally inneffective since people of Russian Heritage make up a 3rd of the country.

Don't let people in with weapons and do diligent checks just as our homeland security does. But the remarks here supporting the idea that the male Russian population are terrorists is inappropriate on a "liberal board.
I would question if people who are saying this are not right wing trolls.

[AgingAmerican]

19. Racist against what?

Which race? So you believe that the Ukraine should allow Russian fighters into their country? The article says nothing about Russians already living there, which you seem fixated on. I'm a right wing troll? lol

[newthinking]

26. Russians are not a race? THINK

[AgingAmerican]

31. No they aren't

What they are, however, is a country that has openly stated their intention to take over the Ukraine, a sovereign country. Is what the Russians plan to do to the Ukrainian people racist?

Are the Russians racist in their planned hostile takeover of the Ukraine? Do the Ukrainians have a right to stem this invasion, or would doing so be 'racist'?

Do you believe that the Ukrainian government is doing this because they are simply racist against Russians, or do perhaps believe it's possibly being done to protect Ukrainian citizens from Russian hostility?

[sendero]

76. Just because ..

.... someone puts "thinking" in their name, doesn't mean they can actually think. Playing the "r" word here is ludicrous beyond belief.

[Adrahil]

85. Ummmm.....

I don't think securing a border when there is evidence your neighbor is sending in agitators amounts to racism.

[jpak]

86. Ummm..Russia s a very large country and is home to many ethnic groups and religions

There is no "Russian Race"

duh

[newthinking]

87. Umm, look up the definition.. But call it what you will the posts reflect discrimination

Wikipedia:

Race is a classification system used to categorize humans into large and distinct populations or groups by anatomical, cultural, ethnic, genetic, geographical, historical, linguistic, religious, and/or social affiliation. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, in the 17th century, people began to use the term to relate to observable physical traits. Such use promoted hierarchies favorable to differing ethnic groups. Starting from the 19th century, the term was often used, in a taxonomic sense, to denote genetically differentiated human populations defined by phenotype.[1][2][3]

Anti-Defamation League

Racism has existed throughout human history. It may be defined as the hatred of one person by another -- or the belief that another person is less than human -- because of skin color, language, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person. It has influenced wars, slavery, the formation of nations, and legal codes.

[Xithras]

30. You are correct. It's not racism. It's bigotry.

Two sides of the same coin though.

To treat someone with fear or suspicion due to their ethnicity is pretty much the textbook definition of bigotry.

[AgingAmerican]

33. So halting a hostile invasion from Russia is bigotry

They care not about stemming any invasion, or protecting their citizens...they are just doing it cuz they are racist against Russians!

[Xithras]

36. From your own post...

Russian male citizens already living in the Ukraine? Watch them very closely.

You advocated "watching" an entire ethnicity based on fear and distrust, and are using the behavior of a neighboring nation as justification. We're not talking about Russian soldiers, or Russian citizens. We're talking about Ukrainian citizens who happen to be ethnically Russian...and who make up a substantial portion of Ukraine's citizenry. That's the textbook definition of bigotry.

Living in California, I've heard people use the EXACT same justifications to advocate monitoring Mexican-Americans, using the "reconquista" types as justification. It's also the EXACT logic once used to intern the Japanese.

It is ALWAYS bigotry to distrust a person based on their ethnicity. ALWAYS.

[AgingAmerican]

38. Of course watch them

Should the Ukrainian government turn a blind eye to ethnic Russian militias, after what they did in the Crimea?

You have a cartoonish view of this whole conflict.

[Xithras]

41. We're not talking about "militias"

Of course the Ukrainain government has the right to move against militias, but that's not what we're talking about here. You advocated treating ALL ethnic Russian's with suspicion.

A government has a right to treat a criminal as a criminal, but no government has the right to treat innocent people as criminals, or with suspicion, merely based on their ancestry or ethnicity. That's bigotry. It's disgusting and shouldn't be tolerated or advocated ANYWHERE.

[snooper2]

48. I'm just going to have to keep posting the real story to open peoples eyes

[newthinking]

74. There is a lot of use of propaganda.

I mean, from the get go, I agree with the analysis below:

http://inmoscowsshadows.wordpress.com/2014/04/14/maybe-not-the-smoking-gun-that-video-of-a-russian-lt-colonel-in-ukraine/

If it was really a smoking gun it would not be that hard for the US to identify him but we are not hearing much about this specific video from the government. Makes for lots of views for Vice though.

[cosmicone]

37. Think with your head

If, after 9/11, the US authorities had said, "no Muslim male between 18 and 60 will be allowed entry" just because 19 terrorists did something heinous, what would your reaction had been?

Ukraine would have every right to not allow weapons into the country or decide on a case-by-case basis which Russians should be allowed and which ones shouldn't be -- e.g. the ones in active duty military or in intelligence services. But to say ALL Russians won't be allowed entry is xenophobic and a textbook example of bigotry.

[AgingAmerican]

40. We were not being invaded by a country

50 times larger than us, that had already taken over part of the USA.

You seem to believe Russia has a right to rape and pillage unopposed in the Ukraine. That the Ukrainians should just sit back not protect their citizens from what is about to happen to them. You are living in lala land.

[cosmicone]

43. Face-palm

[AgingAmerican]

44. I'm sure the Ukrainians

...who, along with their children, have to live with the implications of the impending hostile invasion share your sentiments.

[amandabeech]

60. If Pakistan were to attack and hold a provice of India,

India could not close its borders to Pakistani males of military age.

If China were to attack and hold a province of India, India could not close its borders to Chinese male citizens of military age.

To do either of those things while under attack from its neighbors, India would be racist.

Got it. I'll right that down for next time India is attacked. It must let anyone and everyone like absolutely nothing has happened.

[cosmicone]

62. Be sure to right that down

instead of writing it down.

[amandabeech]

64. Okay. I made a grammatical error.

Please, what should India do if she is attacked by by one of her neighbors?

Should she continue to accept as travelers men of military age from that country?

My mistake gave you a dodge, which of course you took.

What is your answer?

[cosmicone]

67. India is not relevant to this discussion.

Would you call your aunt as "uncle" if she were to have a mustache?

[amandabeech]

79. India is relevant to you. In fact, India may be the most relavant to you

of all countries.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The goose's sauce here is a military invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

The gander's sauce is a potential military invasion of India by Pakistan, China or some other enemy.

I am trying to ascertain if you approve the same sauce in each instant.

Answer the question.

[cosmicone]

80. Still irrelevant

The demographics and dynamics are completely different.

Also, Pakistan is militarily a banana republic and cannot fight India with conventional means. The last 4 times Pakistan attacked, it got its ass handed over to it and in one war, Pakistan was badly dismembered, leading to liberation of Bangladesh.

China will not attack India -- the world has changed since 1962. Since 1962, China is occupying a territory of India in Aksai Chin region of Ladakh, however, India and China have diplomatic relations and China is one of India's major trade partners.

Pakistan is illegally occupying part of Kashmir since 1949 but India and Pakistan have diplomatic relations and there is a lot of trade between the countries. There is no embargo on Pakistani citizens coming to India and vice versa although we need visas to travel. I have been to Pakistan three times and Pakistanis are delightful hosts and wonderful as people. My family in India has hosted many Pakistani dignitaries and journalists and we always enjoyed their visits.

So, your arguments, while being irrelevant, still fall flat on their face. I was trying to spare you the humiliation of being wrong but you insisted!

[amandabeech]

81. I don't feel the least bit humiliated.

However, you have humiliated yourself by refusing to answer a straight question in a straight manner.

The next time China asserts itself don't come on this board whining for the US to do something about it like you have in the past.

Good-day.

[cosmicone]

82. I have never come whining on this board.

I express opinions that are of benefit to Americans because I am a US Citizen. You may see me through xenophobic eyes but rest assured that my home and my family are in the US.

[snooper2]

47. Fuck Russia and Fuck the assholes trying to take over Ukraine

Funny how you use innuendo that people who support a free Ukraine are right wing trolls...It really is comical considering the right wingers support Putin's bullshit-


AMAZING LOGIC THERE! BRAVO! BRAVO!

you should stop reading RT and maybe get the real story

[treestar]

34. Maybe it is holders of Russian passports

This living inside would presumably have Ukrainian passports. It's not aimed at ethnicity but at nationality.

It's dumb but their prerogative as sovereign nation.

[TwilightGardener]

3. Well, goodness, I can't imagine why.

It seems such an advantage for a country to have large numbers of Russians, loyal to Russia, within your borders. Very stabilizing presence, they are...

[LisaL]

5. Considering that a large numbers of Russians, loyal to Russia, are already living inside Ukraine,

isn't it a bit late?
And why only men?
Total gender discrimination.

[TwilightGardener]

7. I assume they're worried about militia-type volunteer fighters from Russia.

That's why they're stopping men of fighting age.

[AgingAmerican]

13. Do you really have to ask?

nt?

[newthinking]

16. Go post this on a right wing board. It is more appropriate there

[AgingAmerican]

20. So the Ukraine should allow Russian fighters into their country

...to invade, rape, kill and steal. Because doing otherwise would be 'right wing'. Got it...

[newthinking]

25. Justify

if it makes you feel better.

[AgingAmerican]

27. I'm talking about reality

Deal with it.

[newthinking]

29. Reality is taking appropriate measures

Like the TSA and HS do.

Not advocating the line that all ethnic Russians (in Ukraine or outside of) are to be feared

[AgingAmerican]

35. The article makes no mention

of ethnic Russians. It talks about male Russian citizens of fighting age, coming from Russia.

[Cha]

71. You're the last person on this board to be ordering people around with this directive..

"Go post this on a right wing board. It is more appropriate there."

[newthinking]

72. Right. Next you will be saying I am a "putin Lover" Cha

I know you likely believe that because I have posted information (from almost exclusively progressive sites, not RT) that shows the bias of the current narrative on what is happening in Ukraine, that I must be a right wing troll. But I am pretty consistent on my liberal beliefs. There are posts here where people are so rialed up that they are expressing or supporting ethnic prejudices. As a liberal I am going to call that what it is. Right wing crap. We should not move into that territory regardless of our feelings about what is happening in Ukraine.

Sorry if it offends your sensibility. I don't much care for Putin, but neither do I care for deceit, misinformation, or racial profiling (which is essentially what is being argued here). Why would you object to that?

[Cha]

75. Don't put words in my mouth.

[OilemFirchen]

83. Let's hope they stay rialed up

instead of riled up.

Goose sauce.

[newthinking]

84. Hey it was late and I was sleepy. What can I say?

[newthinking]

14. So now is it becoming OK in liberal circles to be racist?

Every Russian is not a terrorist. Expressing that view is racist just as much as it is if someone suggested that all Middle easterners are terrorists.

We didn't stop all Iraqies from entering the US during the Iraq war. Jeez folks. Get a grasp on your fear.

[AgingAmerican]

21. If Iraq banned entry of Americans in the buildup to our invasion

would that have been racist of them?

Iraq didn't invade the USA. You have a terrible grasp of context.

[newthinking]

23. If American banned South Americans would be a closer parallel

That would not be tolerated in twenty first century US.

Think about what you are saying.

[AgingAmerican]

24. South America isn't pushing for a hostile invasion of the USA

Like I said, you have a warped sense of context.

Should Poland have opened it's arms to German men of fighting age while the Nazis were building up troops on it's borders prior to invading them? Think about what you are saying.

[dipsydoodle]

8. Considering the amount of trade between Ukraine and Russia ,

which persists despite current issues , that seems an ill-considered policy

[cosmicone]

9. Porous borders make this only symbolic

One can simply drive from Belarus to Ukraine or Russia to Ukraine through unmanned border crossings.

Ukraine just wants to show that it has some cajones left by symbolic bravado.

This is actually counter-productive in that if there were any ethnic Russians sympathetic to the puppet government, this will thoroughly piss them off.

[TwilightGardener]

11. In your opinion, does the nation of Ukraine have any right whatsoever to

defend itself, maintain its borders, or its sovereignty?

[cosmicone]

17. It is not a nation anymore

It is a fascist junta calling chaotic and illogical shots with no regard for Ukraine's national interest.

The current government is akin to American teabaggers who would sacrifice national interest for ideology and pissing vast demographics off just to satisfy their hard-core minority constituency.

[TwilightGardener]

22. I didn't know you got to decide that. Because the rest of the world

sees it as a sovereign nation, except...Russia, and you. Because you and Putin don't happen to like the interim government. Two months of political turmoil have wiped out their entire identity as a sovereign nation, and even their very right to exist as one...

[newthinking]

32. I guess you feel ok supporting this line of thinking, maybe internment is next?

Do you even know any Ukrainians that are ethnic Russians or have Russian relatives, spouses, etc?

[AgingAmerican]

50. Again

The article says nothing about ethnic Russians or internment.

[cosmicone]

39. Not the entire rest of the world.

In the UN General Assembly, there were 40% abstentions and "nay" votes. The "yay" votes were mainly from US, Western Europe and countries under US imperialist thumb plus laughable little "countries" resembling disneyland, brobdingnag, liliput and knott's berry farm.

By population, a majority of the world abstained.

The US and Western Europe is not the "entire world", thank you.

[TwilightGardener]

42. You have a bizarrely dismissive attitude toward small, non-powerful countries.

Almost contemptuous, really. What countries do not and have not recognized the sovereignty of Ukraine?

[cosmicone]

45. In the UN

Brazil, India, China, South Africa and most of the populous countries abstained. Even Israel abstained.

Antigua, Barbuda, Bahamas, St. Kitts, Nevis, Granada which always vote with the US have a combined population less than a small city in China or India.

If we adopted one person one vote, a lot of these Western shenanigans would stop.

[TwilightGardener]

46. Abstained from what?

China has trade relations with Ukraine. Are you saying China doesn't recognize the nation of Ukraine?

[AgingAmerican]

51. Apparently the Ukraine is just a boutique country, like Knotts Berry Farm

...and as such is laughable and open to hostility and invasion from whomever is big enough to do so, because Paraguay abstained from voting in the UN.

[TwilightGardener]

52. Ukraine's big crime was turning westward for trade. Now it's not even able to be

formally recognized as a country, or allowed to defend itself, according to the Putin crowd here. Completely nuts.

[cosmicone]

54. There was a three-way treaty in place

between Ukraine, Russia and EU under which Yanukovytch consented to hold early elections by May 2015.

The CIA supported (and cookie fed) neonazi and fascists thugs couldn't wait and destroyed the nation of Ukraine. When a country cannot abide by its treaties and its constitutional system, it ceases to be a "nation" and becomes a territory.

The Ukrainian population and even its military are not supporting the fascist/neonazi thugs. You should take your anger at them rather than us. We are just stating facts. The Ukrainians themselves are voting with their feet.

Why did the elite Ukrainian forces defect? They didn't feel patriotic to support a coup installed government. Why don't you get mad at them and throw your beer-can at the TV while yelling, "those damn Ukrainian soldiers?"

[TwilightGardener]

55. Nah. Propaganda. Russia did not actually sign the agreement arranged between

Poland, France, Germany, Yanukovich, and Russia that last week of February, if that's what you're referring to. They acted unhappy and made a show out of not signing it. Here's something I've been wondering--if the real issue is that the elected Yanukovich was removed from office (or, as it seems, removed himself by fleeing like a chickenshit), why are the Eastern and Southern Ukrainians who supposedly supported him NOT demanding he be returned to office?

Wouldn't that be the logical demand, if you think your government was the victim of a coup? Restoration of the "legitimate" administration? Not, you know, a breakup of the country in order to be annexed by a foreign country. He's right over the border, he isn't dead (yet). Putin says his political career is finished, but why is it up to him? Why isn't Putin supporting him, anyway? Demand the reinstallation of Yanukovich, he was a great, great man. And he can bring billions back to the treasury, once his accounts get unfrozen by the Swiss.

[arewenotdemo]

53. Thank you for making that point.

[TwilightGardener]

56. Making what point? Ukraine isn't recognized formally as a sovereign nation?

Because I'm not seeing proof of that.

[EX500rider]

63. Why not tell us the wonderful counties that voted "no"....

.....you know, North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc...

[cosmicone]

68. They are counties?

I was talking about abstentions - not nay votes anyway.

[snooper2]

49. You do realize that just a week ago the interim government

disarmed a couple hundred right-bloc assholes that were holed up in an entire hotel, took their weapons and made them leave Kiev?

You knew that right?

[awoke_in_2003]

57. Which side is forcing Jews to register? nt

[cosmicone]

58. The puppet government with the aid of CIA psyops team. n/t

[amandabeech]

61. The Republic of Donetsk in southeastern, that's southeastern Ukraine.

It wishes to detach itself from Kiev and become part of Russia.

The move started after the region declared itself separate from the rest of Ukraine.

There has been no indication that the government in Kiev, or any other central or western regional Ukrainian government has been involved in forced registration of Jews.

Those posters here who have accused the Kiev government of being Nazis and Fascists and haters of Jews are a bit confused. They're spinning at warp speed.

[awoke_in_2003]

65. The need for them to defend Putin is odd to me. nt

[amandabeech]

66. It is to many here.

I had high hopes that Putin would be a reasonable leader of Russia, which is an important country. I thought that he'd move more toward a European model, albeit slowly.

But it turns out that he thinks that the end of the Soviet Union was the biggest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.

Over on the NYT comment section on an article about Ukraine, someone posted that the Russian parliament has taken away from the Russian people the right to elect mayors and sheriffs. Already Russians are not allowed to elect provincial governors. Putin will now appoint not only governors, but mayors and sheriffs. Instead of democracy expanding slowly in Russia, it appears to be disappearing, and not too slowly.

[awoke_in_2003]

70. Russia's villianification

(a word I made up) speaks volumes about Russia's tolerance of diversity. Russia's track record with Jews isn't much better thn Germany's

[newthinking]

69. You bought a false flag move lol

It was even reported in some media outlets that the head of the group in Donetsk "admitted" it was real. Which is a lie, when he was asked about it he said the exact opposite.

There are so many attempts at placing false information out. Which in itself is interesting. But please, don't buy everything you are sold,

Here is one article from USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/04/17/jews-ordered-to-register-in-east-ukraine/7816951/

U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt called the leaflets "the real deal." But the man whose name appears on the leaflets, Denis Pushilin, identified as chairman of "Donetsk's temporary government," said he was not responsible.

Pushilin, who is a leader of the pro-Russian movement in Donetsk, acknowledged that leaflets were distributed under his organization's name but denied any connection to them, Ynet reported.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Jewish community in Donetsk issued a statement saying the leaflet distribution "smells like a provocation." The chief rabbi of nearby Dnipropetrovsk, Shmuel Kaminezki said, "Everything must be done to catch them."

"It's important for everyone to know its not true," Kaminezki told CNN. "The Jews of Donetsk will not do what the letter says."

[amandabeech]

78. So, you are reporting that something that now appears vague,

has now a definite origin.

How naive.

[Union Scribe]

73. Riiiight. Svoboda totally aren't fascists...

It's not like the ministries are infested with neo-nazis that make the US GOP look like liberals or anything. Oh no wait. That's ABSOLUTELY the case.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/the-neo-nazi-question-in_b_4938747.html

[newthinking]

18. Absolutely.

Do diligence, but not only is it ineffective, it is going to further anger half the population. Those "Russian males" are often relatives, spouses, children, parents.

Get a clue twightlight. Don't let Russian paranoia is trump your liberal values. This is unnecessary, discriminatory, and incendiary.

[jakeXT]

28. I guess a lot of retired pilots over 60 will have to be rehired. /nt

[CFLDem]

59. Good for them.

Also it's nationalistic- not racist, bigoted, or any other negative stereotype.

They are fighting for their existence. I wish them the best of luck.

[Sunlei]

77. Ukraine will need a strong border policy if they become a full EU member. Travel across EU

countries is pretty much open borders, no passports or visas needed.

I don't think our country, for example, would want organized crime gangs moving back again.