Snowden asks Putin about Moscow surveillance

[TomCADem]

Source: CNN

Months after accepting asylum in Russia, fugitive U.S. intelligence leaker Edward Snowden on Thursday asked Russian President Vladimir Putin about Moscow's own surveillance practices.

"Does Russia intercept, store or analyze in any way the communications of millions of individuals?" Snowden asked in English via a video link during Putin's annual question-and-answer program, which was broadcast on state television. "And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than their subjects, under surveillance?"

Putin responded that Russia has a special service that bugs telephone conversations and Internet communications to fight crimes, including terrorism, but only with court permission and only "for specific citizens."

"So, the mass character is something we do not have and cannot have," Putin said in Russian.

Read more: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/17/world/europe/russia-snowden-putin/

---

Since Putin was a former member of the KGB, he definitely is a person who would know whether or not Russia conducted surveillance on its citizens without any accountability.

[Ash_F]

1. That is pretty ballsy. /nt

[Adrahil]

8. Yeah. Sure it was. It was completely staged, of course. NT

[Cali_Democrat]

20. LOL. No kidding. nt

[LiberalLovinLug]

22. Let me guess

You have a wiretap on Snowden and Putin so you know right?

Talk about conspiracy theorists

[Adrahil]

29. LOL... how gullible are you? NT

[LiberalLovinLug]

34. Not as half as you seem to be

You tin foil hatters are hilarious. If Snowden never confronts Putin on this issue then its obviously because he is in his pocket. If he does it is all staged and somehow nefarious. Make up your minds.

No one is saying that Putin did not know the question was coming and was prepared for it and most likely is lying in his answer. That's not the point. At least the question was put to Putin by someone. Sure it may not go any further but what is the harm in at least opening the dialogue in Russia at least the smidgeon that this public question raised within Russia? What harm can that do? The concerns of mass citizen spying whether done here or abroad should be raised and discussed everywhere. But so many prefer the silent warm dark ground for their heads to rest in.

[Cryptoad]

48. If Comrade Snowden,,,

says it so,,, it is the Truth....... geeez,,, everybody knows that!

[Adrahil]

50. Lol!!!!! SUUUUUuuuurrreeee....

Snowden just happened to get through on Putin's call-in program. Seems legit..... If you're in the tank for Putin.

[Voice for Peace]

2. and of course he would tell everyone on State TV

not

[wordpix]

3. opening this can of worms won't endear Snowden to Putin

Putin is looking more and more the total dictator. He will never tell the truth, anyway.

[Adrahil]

9. LOL.... Putin's people totally put him up to this.

This wasn;t an accident, and Putin knew it was coming. It was another Putin poke at the U.S. and Snowden was a gullible tool.

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. Especially since Comrade Snowden's lawyer & Putin are both former KGB. If anyone believes this....

wasn't a totally staged event, Chris Christie's got a bridge........well, you know.

[MADem]

64. Precisely. nt

[cosmicone]

4. Snowden is gunning for

(probably a wrong verb to use) the Nobel peace prize.

[cabrona]

30. He's not "gunning" for anything except the right to privacy.

But he deserves the Nobel Peace Price. Way more than some who have actually received the honor. And no, I am not a libertarian.

[ozone_man]

60. Considering that Obama already won one

I think the bar is lowered. He has turned out to be a war president, second to Bush.

Snowden should win one though. I think he has in the minds of many.

[cabrona]

5. Interesting questions

Putin is probably lying. But then our own government deceived us about batch surveillance for about 10 years. Any government that can do this will do it.

[Ash_F]

10. Or they just don't have the money to run such an operation.

It is a boondoggle of untold billions of taxpayers' dollars here in the US.

[cabrona]

19. Putin actually says this in the video at the link. nt

[albino65]

6. Oh, Bullshit

Do you really think this was not scripted? Since Putin is a former member of the KGB, who would know better than to issue a not-so-plausible deniability statement?

[Maedhros]

25. Clapper? [n/t]

[albino65]

26. Good one n/t

[vdogg]

7. Lol

Oh please.

[stonecutter357]

11. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

Propaganda.

[groovedaddy]

12. “Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?”

“No, sir,” replied Director of National Intelligence James Clapper. Still, Wyden pressed him. Clapper again denied that the NSA was collecting data on Americans, saying, “Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly.”

[cabrona]

13. :) nt

[OnyxCollie]

15. +1. nt

[jmowreader]

14. Doing this was probably a condition of his continued asylum

FSB would probably LIKE to do this, but they don't have the money or equipment to do it.

On the other hand...in the Good Old Days of the Soviet Union, the KGB had a directorate that did nothing but randomly plug into people's phone lines. And they didn't do this metadata bullshit...no, tovarich, they LISTENED to your phone calls to make sure you weren't a counterrevolutionary stukach'nyj. (Means "little rat" - not the kind of thing you want to be called!)

[MADem]

65. Who needs phones? They had a snitch or ten in every apartment complex...the walls had

not just ears, but eyes--and it could be that little turd who lived in the flat across the hall.

[jmowreader]

67. And a snitch in every department of every company, and one in every classroom...

They bugged everyone's phone just to be thorough.

You'll like this: I worked for a lieutenant who attended the US Army Russian Institute, which was a very advanced language training program. Part of the program is to live for six months in Moscow. On her first morning there, she went up to her room, which was in a hotel, and inspected everything...the shower didn't work. So just for the hell of it she walked to the middle of the room and yelled at the top of her lungs, "My shower is broken and I want it fixed!" When she got back that night, it was. So for the rest of the time she was there she called in her work orders by yelling at the ceiling.

[MADem]

72. Ha ha ha ha ha! What a hot shit!

I'll tell ya, the way things are going in Moscow these days, an expatriate would be well advised to bring a small tent along and set it up in a corner of the hotel room, along with a boom box that had a loud and rich tone!

Those old school ways are still valid!

[rtracey]

16. So....

So Russia does the same thing the NSA does... ok, now will Snowden download Russian files and then flee to North Korea?

Oh I think i'm supposed to say "SARCASM"

We wouldn't want my post to be hidden because of a joke.....

[George II]

17. That was basically a softball question, and I'm sure he knew what the answer would be....

...in advance. Was it a sincere inquiry? I doubt it. Was it a shot at the US? Probably.

If he was really interested in the response, perhaps he should have thought about this before he bolted to Russia?

[gholtron]

18. I guess that settles that then.

No need to break into the Russian intelligence and steal confidential documents and laptop computers.

[brush]

21. What's up with Snowden?

Allowing himself to be so obviously used like that in a staged Q&A?

The naivete is stunning — first apparently going along with Poitras and Greenwald's urgings (who are reaping beaucoup benefits while he's stuck in Russia) and now willingly acquiescing to Putin in this charade.

I heard yesterday on the progressive satellite radio channel that Snowden, once he had fled to Asia, was strongly advised against taking the public route he took — meaning he didn't have to give up his whole life to leak the NSA info, that there were other ways to do it. He insisted though that he wanted it known that he was the one doing the leaking.

There has to be a psychiatric term for the extreme naivete combined with extreme narcissism that is being exhibited here.

It apparently still hasn't dawned on the self-important one that he's looking more and more like a useful tool of Putin's instead of the hero he sees himself to be.

And allow me this disclaimer: I'm glad Snowden re-revealed thenews of NSA's domestic operations, but I think he went wrong in releasing details of his own country's international covert operations. In my book the international revelations borders on sedition.

[LiberalLovinLug]

23. Does anyone actually think Putin would answer honestly???

Including Snowden??

But I don't get why ASKING THE QUESTION is such a terrible thing (staged or not). We had to first ask the question in the US, years before it was revealed. There has to be some way of breaking the ice. Of course Putin probably knew the question beforehand and was prepared to answer it. I don't think he would even take the question unless that was the case. That's pretty obvious. But to leap from that...to that Putin and Snowden have some kind of secret snickering friendship, that they plan together in their tree fort what mischief to inflict on the US is ludicrous.

So all the anti-Constitutional authoritarians on here would rather he was NEVER asked that question by anyone publicly? I just don't get the blind hate.

[brush]

33. I didn't suggest this at all . . .

. . . you did:

"But to leap from that...to that Putin and Snowden have some kind of secret snickering friendship, that they plan together in their tree fort what mischief to inflict on the US is ludicrous."

But it's pretty obvious, since it was televised and Snowden was in front of a camera and a mic, that he knew what was happening beforehand. So tossing Putin a soft ball lop question like that, either Snowden was told what to ask ahead of time which seems to me he agreed to be used, or he is, like I suggested in my post, incredibly naive to think Putin would say anything but "no" to his question.

[LiberalLovinLug]

40. "the hero he sees himself to be"?

He denies that he sees himself that way in his recent TED talk appearance, not that that means anything to you.
So yes, I hear inferences from folks like yourself, that he is somehow working with Putin in some kind of greater conspiracy.

Also why is this a "softball question"? Just because Putin knew how he would answer it beforehand? Don't all politicians, in any country, have good answers ready for probable and potentially uncomfortable questions? The actual question is far from benign, it is a very "hardball" question.

Like reporters asking Bush Jr. if the state uses torture. He was ready for the question and he denied it. Later it was proved that they were using a torture method that Japanese soldiers were executed for using against Americans. It was important that there is a record of Bush denying it was going on. Isn't it at least marginally helpful in the long run to at least begin to be asking questions?

Or is it once again who is asking and not what is asked?

[brush]

44. All I have to say is . . .

"why allow himself to be used like that?"

He made a huge fool of himself.

[MADem]

27. He's not naive. He's either a prisoner or a collaborator.

I lean towards the latter.

When Snowden did a bunk, he hid out after leaving that high end hotel in the Russian Embassy in Hong Kong.

He fled to Hong Kong because he'd been there before. He vacationed there when he worked in Japan.

Now the question needs to be asked: Did he meet anyone from the Russian government while he was vacationing in Hong Kong all those years ago?

Connect the dots!

[joshcryer]

28. The timing came out just as the USA was going after China for corporate spying.

On my phone or I'd link.

[LiberalLovinLug]

31. OMG!

You're right! He had this heist planned for years! Sure he could have been planning some big bank job, kept hush about it, and be relaxing on a desert island.... but this plan is gold! Who wouldn't want to be holed up in a foreign country, demonized by your home countries press, hounded by the most powerful military nation on the planet who now accepts as normal, indefinite detention and torture? I mean...hey, where do I sign up!

[MADem]

63. You'd rather respond than read, I guess. nt

[brush]

35. I think you're on to something.

And he also may have been "turned" while he was on assignment in Switzerland for the CIA.

It's always been murky why he left the CIA (he got a less than favorable review from one supervisor), and then turns up later in Hawaii where he signs on with Booz Allen for 3 months — just enough time to access and copy terabytes of files that he then absconds with.

I mean how does this guy even get hired after leaving the CIA with a unfavorable review in his file?

Some outside assistance perhaps?

[MADem]

61. There's a blogger who has read the latest VF article about him who thinks that

he could have been "worked" by the journalists and told, in essence, what to grab.

Not sure if that's a valid theory, but it's an interesting one. Parts of this are a tough slog, but here it is:

http://3dblogger.typepad.com/wired_state/2014/04/vanityfairnarrative.html

Again, it's my belief that this is part of a construction of the narrative to exonerate journalists from any charges that they gave him assignments -- and therefore they could look guilty of complicity in espionage, instead of being able to endlessly hide behind the Supreme Court protections for journalists who report on stolen classified documents..... It's my belief that Snowden was guided in viewing this FISA document as "the most important" by the lawyer-blogger Greenwald and the others; at any event, even if he had some grasp of these issues before, he has never told the story this way.

And that he is only now telling the story this way is patently obvious, because the copy-pasters at Vanity Fair tell this story differently than Luke Harding, even though they copy Luke elsewhere (instead of Greenwald himself, for example, going with Harding's dates for their first real-life meetings, and not Greenwald's changing versions of the dates.)

When I see the dates "April 29th" and "expire July 19th," I also wonder if this gave impetus to Snowden to flee, or whether he was advised by the others that having the document "hot" while it was still in effect would be far more effective than exposing it after it expired and the NSA could always say it was only in the past and they wouldn't do it again. Snowden safely fled and on 16 July, the Russian government accepted his application for asylum. (That still wasn't getting formally the grant of asylum, but since none other than Putin himself had offered Snowden to apply for asylum in Russia on June 11, it was a done deal.)

Not everyone will be persuaded that this is a find, but you'll have to agree that whenever the stories are told differently, or suddenly something new is injected into the Snowden narrative, there are reasons and we should pay attention. Can you think of a better reason as to why Snowden is suddenly claiming he's the one who thought of, found, and retrieved the fresh April 29th FISA court order -- when he's never mentioned this before?

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. And a clear majority of Americans are probably asking that very question.

"Did he meet anyone from the Russian government while he was vacationing in Hong Kong all those years ago? "

Huffpo: "Americans Might Not Support Edward Snowden, But They Support Disclosing Programs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/01/edward-snowden-support_n_5071938.html

I'm just waiting for that crack journalist who discovers that Snowden didn't wind up in Russia (by accident).

[goldent]

71. What makes sense to me is this:

1. Snowden wants out of Russia bad and Russia wants to be rid of him.
2. Putin figures he will humiliate Snowden and the US before moving Snowden on
3. Snowden knows he will be viewed by many as a hypocrite regardless of what he does
4. Because of #3, Snowden figures he will go along with #2 to achieve #1

[Blue_Tires]

24. This laughable stunt can only be realistically seen two ways:

1. Snowden really is that naïve, and in fact has been playing the role of useful idiot all this time

2. Snowden is in on the con and had already been working with the Russians for years

It's ugly no matter how you look at it...WHO in fuck's name told Snowden with a straight face that this was actually a good idea? Wizner?

[cabrona]

32. There is another way.

Snowden wanted to take the opportunity to expose a difference between Russia and the US on batch domestic spying. And I think there is such a difference. I believe Putin when he says that Russia doesn't have the money to do it.

[neffernin]

36. I'd hate to break it to you, but regimes like this

generally spend the vast majority of their income on either making themselves richer or suppressing the people (in an attempt to consolidate power and keep themselves rich).

When people on the DU message boards start siding with Putin because Snowden read a pre-selected question to him... well shucks.

[Ash_F]

37. Regimes like the US?

We know for sure the NSA does it. They have been caught red-handed.

We have not actually seen evidence that Russia does this. I wonder why that is? Maybe the Russians are just inherently more competent people.

[cabrona]

39. +1

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[neffernin]

41. In no way to I agree that we are any means fair

but when you talk up Russia while putting down the United States in this case it is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction wouldn't you think?

Personally, I think it is sad that as a country we continuously choose to vote in worthless scum; but at least as a fairly ignorant electorate we choose to subjugate ourselves instead of having it chosen for us.

We have not actually seen evidence that Russia does this. I wonder why that is? Maybe the Russians are just inherently more competent people.

Or maybe because they don't have freedom of speech?
I'm guessing you also believe that all of those people in eastern Ukraine are just Russian speaking Ukranians who happen to have access to Russian arms and Russian uniforms minus the insignia? There's no proof, so it must not be true, right?

[Ash_F]

45. Who said I was talking up Russia?

Don't read too much into it.

[neffernin]

46. You did.

We have not actually seen evidence that Russia does this. I wonder why that is? Maybe the Russians are just inherently more competent people.

Just sayin'

[Ash_F]

47. That last line was sarcasm.

My point was they are probably not doing it.

[neffernin]

43. Try some facts on for size

And you try to compare the US to Russia due to NSA surveillance. Then again, what does your opinion matter against facts?

OVERVIEW:


President Vladimir Putin devoted 2013 to strengthening his grip on power and eliminating any potential opposition. The government enforced a series of harsh laws passed the previous year in response to massive opposition protests in December 2011 and May 2012. Among other restrictions, the laws increased controls on the internet, dramatically hiked fines for participating in unsanctioned street protests, expanded the definition of treason, and branded nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that accepted foreign grants and engaged in vaguely defined “political activities” as “foreign agents.” Although the authorities applied these measures with varying degrees of zeal, and even suffered some setbacks in the Constitutional Court, they repeatedly made it clear that they had the discretion to interpret the laws, and that members of civil society were always vulnerable.

In the face of this repression, opposition leader Aleksey Navalny demonstrated that it was possible to inspire an army of volunteers, raise money online for an opposition movement, and win more than a quarter of the votes in the Moscow mayoral election in September. Many civil society groups also demonstrated resilience by going about their business even as the government harassed and tried to marginalize them. However, Navalny and others operated under the threat of ongoing criminal cases or suspended prison sentences. Economist Sergey Guriyev was the most prominent figure to choose exile during the year rather than face such repercussions.

With the cooperation of the Russian Orthodox Church, the Kremlin also sought to bolster its popular support by scapegoating immigrants and minorities in Russian society. Putin signed laws in June and July that effectively outlawed LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender) activism and expression and banned gay couples in foreign countries from adopting Russian children. The government’s hostile stance encouraged a spate of homophobic attacks across the country. Meanwhile, police carried out a series of raids against irregular migrants, including after xenophobic rioting in October that came in response to the alleged murder of an ethnic Russian by an Azerbaijani. The riots reflected popular complaints that the police and other officials were corrupt and incompetent, and failed to protect the local population.

Late in the year, Putin issued a series of amnesties, releasing dissident businessman Mikhail Khodorkovsky, held for 10 years; two members of the antigovernment performance group Pussy Riot; 30 Greenpeace activists, who had been facing trial since September; four of the protesters arrested in the May 2012 Bolotnaya Square demonstrations; and thousands of lesser-known inmates. The amnesties seemed designed to boost Russia’s worsening international image on the eve of the February 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. However, of the 70 people that the human rights group Memorial identified as political prisoners in October, 33 remained in jail or under house arrest at the end of the year. Among these were Khodorkovsky’s business partner, Platon Lebedev, and many of the Bolotnaya protesters. The upcoming Olympics put Russia’s human rights record in the spotlight throughout the year, but the regime continued to harass a wide range of individuals who criticized abuses in the preparations for the games.

Source:
http://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2014/russia-0#.U1BITvldU3M

[cabrona]

59. Facts?

Your "facts" are from Freedom House. The director of Freedom House is David J. Kramer, former Senior Fellow at the Project for the New American Century, a neocon front, led by such RW luminaries as Bill Kristol, Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz.

[Blue_Tires]

42. "I believe Putin when he says that Russia doesn't have the money to do it...."

Last edited Thu Apr 17, 2014, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

^^^^^^^Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the mindset of the Snowdenista

Doesn't have the money after they just dropped 50 fucking billion on the Winter Games...Yeah, whatever

[SunSeeker]

52. LOL nt

[Bodhi BloodWave]

56. *puts tounge firmly in cheek*

But wouldn't that explain exactly WHY Russia don't have money to do it, after all they DID spend 50 billion on the winter games.

They must have been digging around in their couches and saved the change for decades to be able afford to hold the games

[MADem]

66. +1,000 !!!! nt

[jmowreader]

68. Governments don't have just one bank account

There's one for the Ministry of Olympic Disasters, one for the Ministry of Spying On Your Citizens, one for the Ministry of Invading Former Soviet Republics, and so on and so forth. And if the Russian government is like the US government in this respect, moving money from the invasion fund to the spying fund, or from the bad-Olympics fund, is like pulling teeth.

[cabrona]

69. +1

[cabrona]

70. $50 billion is nothing.

The US puts that much each year into the black budget.

[neffernin]

38. Regardless of your opinion of Snowden

this is a pretty blatant form of propaganda.

While I'm no fan of Snowden in no way would I blame him for playing along... I mean, what exactly are his options? The moment he ran to Russia he basically gave up any hope of being anything other than a Russian tool. Again, I don't blame him for this as it is about the same thing the Russian government does to just about anyone who is political in their country: Toe the line or go to jail (or worse).

I'd rather be more concerned about my privacy taken away then be worried about any public interactions placing me in jail.... such as protesting, openly being gay, taking opposite political statements or openly criticizing the government.

[Cryptoad]

49. Yep,,,,,

the deal is not sealed on that new beach house in Crimea for Comrade Snowden as of yet.....

[JackRiddler]

55. Snowden didn't run to Russia!

He attempted to transit through Russia on his way to South America, where at least Ecuador has offered him asylum. Going through Russia was the only way to avoid countries that would turn him over directly to the U.S. Nevertheless, he was held up in Russia in response to the U.S. wanted person notice. The Russians refused to extradite him to the U.S., but also refused to let him continue to South America. So he's a hostage with little choice in the matter. It may well be that he is under pressures from the Russian government, who have the power to turn him over to the U.S. He's certainly not in a good position to criticize the Russian government, whatever he may think of it. A bunch of people here who have specialized in distorting all of the facts of this case think nothing of making him out to be a friend to the Russian government, or even a Russian spy.

[Thinkingabout]

51. Wow, how can it be Russia does not listen to conversations but yet reveals a

conversation.

Since Putin was a former member of the KGB, he definitely is a person who would know whether or not Russia conducted surveillance on its citizens without any accountability.

Putin is lying, he knows they listen to phone conversations, they have produced conversations, so who should you believe. They revealed information on conversations with the Boston Bomber to the US, again Putin is telling a crock of crap.

Keep on believing Putin, bet you will never find out the truth from Snowden either.

[Hekate]

57. NOW he asks?

Words fail me.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

58. Maybe a Russian Snowden will defect and prove him wrong.

It's historical fact that they had lower tech versions of such programs and worse in the USSR days. Germany, the UK, Russia, and China are all generally presumed to have similar capabilities as the NSA, though perhaps less advanced. The internet is just too tempting a tool. It enables people across the world to talk to others freely, but everyone else can listen, and write it down. People are just giving the governments of the world all of their secrets, and we are surprised that they've decided to take advantage of that.

It's going to take technical changes to the internet to change things. We're moving away from the age of the internet as a tool for democracy and more toward it being a tool of authoritarian control. Maybe some sort of peer to peer internet is feasible, but I certainly wouldn't expect that kind of technology to be encouraged.

[Ash_F]

62. The NSA program is very big, expensive and involves thousands of people.

Any program that big is eventually going to have one of its personnel leak it. So if Russia has one, we will know eventually.