Trayvon Martin case to go to grand jury, Fla. state attorney announces

[warrior1]

Source: MSNBC

A grand jury will investigate the death of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old shot to death in a gated community in Florida on Feb. 26, state attorney Norm Wolfinger announced Tuesday.


snip

The Seminole County Grand Jury will be called to session on Tuesday, April 10, Wolfinger said.

Read more: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/20/10775671-trayvon-martin-case-to-go-to-grand-jury-fla-state-attorney-announces

[Hell Hath No Fury]

1. That's a start.

FBI better be keeping a very close eye on this case. >

[Pachamama]

17. Wonder if they are doing this to make it seem like they are not completely ignoring this case...

....does this mean that the Justice dept and FBI is no longer going to be involved? It seems to me that this was a hate crime and it may be systemic down there....its almost as if the calendar doesnt read 2012 but rather 1962....1952....1942...

:scary:

[lark]

30. This sounds like regional discrimination

Jeb pushed thru a law in his last days that allows anyone to shoot anyone else if they feel their life is in danger, even if the other person isn't armed. The law, while it is part of the system, hasn't caused the holocaust we thought it would, but it was obviouly a terrible law and has lead to this needless death. So, "systemic", um don't know that it is because this is the first case like this I've seen since the law passed years ago. 1942 - no the law was just passed a few years ago. Horrible and needs to be seriously investigated and prosecuted depending on real evidence - ABSOLUTELY.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

42. You misstate the meaning of Stand Your Ground...it has nothing to do with the standard

for use of deadly force in FL.

[avebury]

2. It is about time. Hopefully it won't be for show only. nt

[adigal]

3. Why was George Zimmerman not arrested???

This is a disgrace!! Imagine if an unarmed white kid had been gunned down by a black man. Oh, the gnashing of teeth and wailing we would see then!! The man would have been arrested immediately!

[baldguy]

5. By this time he'd have been arrested, beaten up by the cops, tried, convicted & sentenced to life.

[bigdarryl]

12. One word WHITE

[Lasher]

13. Do you know that Zimmerman is Hispanic?

A lot of people here seem to be unaware of this.

[bigdarryl]

16. OH PLEASE!!!! I never heard of a hispanic named Zimmermann

Plus I've seen racist Hispanics in my life time who think there white because they look white

[maddezmom]

21. his mother is and his dad is white

as for the last name of Zimmerman it's German.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmerman

[Lasher]

25. And his father identifies him as Hispanic.

Last edited Tue Mar 20, 2012, 07:27 PM - Edit history (1)

Zimmerman's father, 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman of Lake Mary, delivered a one-page letter to the Sentinel on Thursday, saying that the depiction of his son in the media has been cruel and misleading.

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story

President Obama identifies himself as a black man, although his mother was white. So it is not illogical or improper to refer to Zimmerman as Hispanic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

[bigdarryl]

59. how do you explain him calling this kid a FUCKING COON

[jeff47]

60. Are you trying to argue a hispanic man can't be racist? (nt)

[Lasher]

61. He is a racist.

I don't understand why this needs to be explained to you. Do you think there are no racist Hispanics?

[Marrah_G]

56. You really can't go by names

I know 4 kids of Chinese ancestry with a very long Polish last name

[Blue_Tires]

65. for what it's worth...

There is a long history of German immigration (before and after the world wars) to Mexico and South America...In Mexico City you'll find tons of German surnames...In a place like Buenos Aires, you will see a lot of blond hair and blue eyes (not always German genes, but still)

[Art_from_Ark]

72. Bernardo O'Higgins wasn't your typical "Irishman"--

In fact, O'Higgins, the second Supreme Director of Chile and the first to serve in that capacity after Chilean independence, was of mostly hispanic descent.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Hispanic is not a race

[happyslug]

32. Hispanic is a racial term under the 1866 and 1871 Civil Rights Acts

Last edited Tue Mar 20, 2012, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

In the 1800s the terms "Race" was broader then it is today, the term "Race" was not restricted to people of the three generally recognized "Races" of today (Caucasians, Negroid and Mongolian) but the Term "Race" also included sub-categories, such as "Slavs", "Semites", "Greeks", "Italians", "Teutonic" "Aryans" (The term "Aryan" has been replaced by the tern "Indo-European" in most context, for "Race" and "language" are deeply interconnected). Even "Jews" were considered separate race at that time period (When the Term "Jew" was used as a national identity as opposes to a religion).

The Courts have long recognized that the Term "Race" as used in the Post Civil War Constitutional Amendments and the 1866 and 1871 Civil Rights Acts meant included what we now call "National Origin" (A term used in the 1964 Civil Rights act do to the change in the generally accepted definition of the term "Race" as the term "Race" was used in the post WWII era).

Hispanic is thus included as a "Race" under the above Constitutional Amendments and acts of Congress. In fact the wording of the 13 th amendment to include the term "Involuntary Servitude" was to outlaw peonage, which still existed in the Hispanic Communities of New Mexico in 1865.

The 13th Amendment

“Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Do to this history of the term "Race" to say that the term "Hispanic" is not a racial term is NOT true, the US Courts have long used the term "Hispanic" as a racial term for that is how it was used in the 1860s when the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments and the 1866 and 1871 Civil Rights Acts were passed

[Bacchus4.0]

36. pics of hispanic "race" and Zimmerman

dominican boys


http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=&sa=X&ei=eeRoT9-fHcfh0QGZisWfCQ&ved=0CAQQ8wc4Gw&usg=AFQjCNFKFTP8RjB2v6_D5k9XRee3xFh-fQ

Uruguay


http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=&sa=X&ei=geNoT4qbMKji0QH7vtSOCQ&ved=0CAUQ8wc4Bw&usg=AFQjCNHa0nnpCLi1o-c2PU18pfgRt-ZKHA

Zimmerman

[yardwork]

38. A lot of us are fully aware of Zimmerman's ethnicity and have been for days.

What's your point? Are you suggesting that Hispanic people can't be racists, especially against people of other ethnicities?

[Lasher]

43. And a shitload of us has not been aware of this.

Did you miss the first reply to my post #13? Here is a link to it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=78375

My point is, it can be assumed that he self-identifies as Hispanic since that is how is father describes him. His father has also said his son is "...a Spanish speaking minority...".

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-20120320,0,1508238.story

I am not suggesting that a Hispanic person can't be a racist. Anyone can be a racist. But I will not go so far to say that Hispanic people can be racists against people of other ethnic groups. It has been correctly argued in this very thread that Hispanics/Latinos are a racially diverse ethnicity. It is therefore inaccurate to describe bigotry by or against their ethnic group as racism.

[Bacchus4.0]

44. Americans (US) can be of any race, are we then an ethnic group incapable of racism?

Hispanic denotes, at best, people descended from Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries of the Americas. it may even include Spaniards and Portuguese. its an extremely broad classification of people based on nothing more than geography.

[Lasher]

47. Are you trying to say that it is inappropriate to point out his ethnicity?

He has been repeatedly identified here as 'white' without further distinction. This encourages a belief that he is a European Caucasian. I don't think Latino ethnicity is irrelevant.

[Bacchus4.0]

50. yes, it was definitely has been portrayed that way. and frankly, I doubt there will be retractions

its really the nature of the crime that does matter. however, race and ethnicity are being implicated in claims that because Martin is black, Zimmerman was not arrested. that could very well be true. but I also believe that Zimmerman being claimed as white inflamed the story in the first place to a significant degree.

[Lasher]

51. I agree with your every word.

But you need to work on your capitalization.



Hope you stick around.

[Bacchus4.0]

53. its my lazy posting style

although I was going to say the same about your reasoning. cheers!

[yardwork]

46. What? Hispanics can be racist. Anybody can be racist. You say so yourself and then contradict it.

I don't understand what point you're making.

[Lasher]

49. A Hispanic (not Hispanics collectively) can be a racist.

Any one person can be a racist.

A person cannot be a racist against a racially diverse ethnic group. If you hate all Latinos, that is not racism since your hatred would be directed against an ethnicity and not a race.

I worded my reply carefully so I hoped this would have been clear.

[Bacchus4.0]

52. OK, I got it now. the post was confusing to me also

and even more so, hispanics are a variety of ethnicities as well. you need more discriptors like gay-hating xenophobic racist mysogenist. how about a Santorum for short?

[Lasher]

58. The second time around I typed real slow.

Anything with a 'phobe' suffix seems to be popular. A phobophobe has nothing to fear but fear itself.

[Blue_Tires]

62. That doesn't mean it's impossible for him to racially profile a certain group of people

[Lasher]

64. You are absolutely correct.

But it is possible for some of us to assume he is a stereotypical non-Hispanic southern white racist until we are told otherwise.

[yardwork]

71. I think that you can safely assume that about the chief of police in Sanford, Florida.

[CAPHAVOC]

20. Police investigation sucked.

[liberalhistorian]

28. What "investigation"?

They didn't investigate shit, unless you wanna count taking the shooter totally at his word and "correcting" their first reports as well as that of witnesses. And you're right, such "investigation" sucked. Unfortunately, I don't have much faith in a grand jury, either.

[CAPHAVOC]

31. I do.

I think the state attny. will get to the bottom of this in the Grand Jury and deliver an indictment.

[amandabeech]

54. I also think that there is a good possibility of a serious indictment.

This was a horrible, horrible crime, and I'm willing to give the State of Florida sufficient time to follow its lawful criminal procedures.

Calling a grand jury is a good first step.

I have no doubt that if Florida falters, the Feds will step in and justice will be served.

My heart goes out to the family and friends of this young man.

[yardwork]

39. Plus one. Now that the case has national attention there is a better chance for justice.

If Trayvon's family were poor or if he actually had a record, we would never have heard about this. I wonder how many Trayvon Martins there are.

[Blue_Tires]

63. I think you mean the police cover-up almost worked until the story snowballed and went national

If only Zimmerman had the foresight to throw a switchblade on the ground next to Martin's body

[lib2DaBone]

40. Zimmerman was not arrested...because

because he said, "I think this guy is on drugs or something" (listen to tape)

In right-Wing "dog whistle speak".. the only assertion needed is that "someone is a law breaker on drugs"

The Right Wing War On Drugs has allowed fascist control over the American people., It allows illegal search and seizure and gives the banker class a means of control over anyone that disagrees with their thefts and and torture of the American people.

The U.S. Govt knows full-well that MJ is harmless.. yet... they will continue to hunt down MJ users because it gives the PTB CONTROL!

Just as in the 60's-70's and 80's.. the name of the game is to CONTROL any dissent and punish those that dare speak out against the Bankers.

Nothing has changed since the days of Woody Guthrie.. up to Bob Dylan and now on to Iraq and Afghanistan. War means PROFIT.. and dammit.. they will not be denied their profit from misery.

[jwirr]

4. Are they doing this to protect him from the hate crimes law?

[drm604]

37. I don't think this would protect him.

I'm pretty sure he could still be charged with a hate crime regardless.

[amandabeech]

55. The Federal Hate Crime Statute will still be available.

I'd like to see Florida do the right thing here, and I'm willing to give them the chance.

Southern states get a lot of grief here, but I cannot believe that a large majority of Floridians can't see that Zimmerman's actions were wrong.

The statute that may give some protection to Zimmerman has to go, however. It is an absolute travesty of legislative intent and drafting. I'm more hopeful that Zimmerman will be indicted for a serious crime than the state legislature will do the right thing.

[qb]

6. This is good - relying on citizens selected for grand jury service to determine the merits.

Rather than potentially crooked state officials.

[atreides1]

11. Maybe

But what's the general feeling of this county towards people of color? And what evidence will be presented? Could this all be about getting the local law enforcement officials off the hook for not arresting Zimmerman?

It could be nothing more then a test case for Florida law!

[Gore1FL]

18. Zimmerman is Hispanic. n/t

[sendero]

45. EXcept...

.... the GJ is only going to consider whatever "facts" are presented to them.

I have ZERO faith they will do the right thing or that they will get real facts.

This is going to require a Federal investigation -i.e. full Justice Dept probe.

[X_Digger]

48. Nah, FL GJ's get to ask their own questions. n/t

[slackmaster]

7. Good. That's how it's supposed to be done.

[X_Digger]

8. Excellent news! n/t

[SamG]

9. There's racial insults on the Zimmerman tape

So this guy's animus was clear, right there on the tape.

[guitar man]

10. Good

Too bad it took arm twisting by the Feds to get them to finally do the right thing.

[Yavin4]

14. Brace Yourselves. The Cops Have So Botched This Investigation

that the evidence to indict, let alone convict, may not be there. They released Zimmerman without any testing of his gun nor him.

[librechik]

15. +1, sadly n/t

[peace frog]

19. Then let the police be exposed for the incompetent, do-nothing idiots they are

It doesn't end here. Not by a damn sight.

[CAPHAVOC]

22. He

Got out of his car and went after the kid. At that point he became the aggressor. He left his right to self defense in his SUV. That is my opinion.

[Fozzledick]

24. It's a disgrace that Zimmerman hasn't been arrested

but this is the right way to proceed with a murder prosecution.

[frylock]

33. seems that there is enough evidence at this stage to warrant an arrest..

what with the released 911 recordings and eyewitness accounts.

[Fozzledick]

57. I assume that the police and prosecutor operate independantly.

The police are derelict in failing to arrest an obvious murder suspect, but it appears that the prosecutor is going ahead to pursue an indictment anyway.

[yurbud]

26. there should be a Supreme Court test of that stupid & dangerous self-defense law

I don't get too hot and bothered about a lot of the gun stuff one way or the other, but that law makes every racist nut or paranoid a one man lynch mob that can act with impunity.

[LongTomH]

29. +1000

I know this SCOTUS is incredibly far right; but, I'm not certain even they could uphold this looney law.

[yurbud]

34. I remember when they were trying to enact and it really did sound like ''shoot if you're afraid of

black people.''

[nashville_brook]

27. On Point did an hour on this today

played the 911 tapes. i'm a wreck. i need to pull myself together before going back to work.

shame on Sanford PD. they are complicit in the muder of this young man. "stand your ground" does not apply here. not unless being black and having Skittles is considered a deadly weapon.

i'm so disgusted.

[yurbud]

35. even if Skittles were dangerous, chasing someone down isn't ''standing your ground''

[nashville_brook]

68. my (sarcastic) point eggsactly

[yurbud]

69. if I feel threatened by someone, my first impulse usually isn't to CHASE them.

[workinclasszero]

41. I can't believe this asshole isnt sitting in a jail cell right now!

This country is going to hell led by the right wing teabag rethugs!

That poor kid was shot down like a dog in the streets for no damn reason and his admitted killer is as free as a bird!

Is the killer even in the country anymore? Who knows? Florida is sure giving him plenty of time to escape justice!

[Catherine Vincent]

66. That's not good

He may not get charged. I know this case is a bit different but it reminds me of Joe Horn in Texas that saw two burglars leaving his next door neighbors home and was on the phone with the 911 operator, who insisted that he stay in his home and the cops were on the way. Horn was so upset that they may get away that he ignored the operator and left his home and killed both burglars dead. The grand jury cited their castle doctrine law (which is similar to Florida's stand ground law) and determined that Horn had a right to kill the two perps.

[X_Digger]

67. In that case, a cop who was pulling up *saw* the robbers run towards Horn. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

70. It's a start, but I hope Zimmerman is arrested, too.