Authorities told slain student looking for alcohol

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Authorities told slain student looking for alcohol
The Associated Press May 12, 2014 Updated 23 minutes ago

MISSOULA, Mont. — Authorities say a 17-year-old German foreign exchange student who was shot to death in a Missoula garage was apparently looking for an alcoholic beverage when he wandered into a partially open garage and was killed after a homeowner sprayed the garage with shotgun blasts.

According to court records made public Monday, Diren Dede and Ecuadorian foreign exchange student Robby Pazmino were out walking in the neighborhood when Dede entered Markus Kaarma's garage on April 27. Pazmino told police he thought Dede was looking for alcohol.

Kaarma and his wife said they had been burglarized twice in the three weeks before the shooting. Kaarma allegedly told a hairdresser several days prior that he was waiting up to kill the intruders, whom he referred to as "kids," according to court documents.

Kaarma faces one count of deliberate homicide in Dede's slaying.

Pazmino also informed police that they had learned about "garage hopping" or "garage shopping" from local friends and had participated with other friends three or four times in the past. But he denied taking any items from Kaarma's garage, the affidavit stated.



Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2014/05/12/3129734/authorities-told-slain-student.html#storylink=cpy

[Skittles]

1. cannot make mistakes like that in America

paranoid gun nuts everywhere

[heaven05]

33. you're a responsible parent

good for you and your kid. this is a vicious, racist, culturally stunted society that no one, worldwide, should try to emulate.

[Rebubula]

55. May I ask where you are from

I am not a flag waving idiot by any means, but blanket (and ignorant) statements like yours make you cringe.

I have travelled the world (mostly for business) and one thing I take away is that every country is fucked up in its own way. I am currently in Canada (beloved by many of us) and reading stories of 660 missing\murdered indigenous women , horrible abuses of minorities and idiot mayors.

You want racism - go to the Middle East and you will be sickened.
You want abuse of idigenous peoples - try South America
You want anti-woman violence -- well....go anywhere


It is easy to throw stones at our house, but every year millions of people leave everything they know to come here. We have our problems - but to blanket condemn this country and its culture is simply ignorant of the world at large.

[RKP5637]

56. I've been in a lot of countries and you are correct! It's over the top, I am going to delete it. n/t

[RKP5637]

2. More guns, that's what we need, more fucken guns.

[randys1]

28. NRA promotes the sale of guns you dont need to protect you from enemies you dont have

[RKP5637]

31. Yep, and the NRA + manufactures/retailers/sellers liaison loves that, more and more $$$$$. Guns

in the US are an addiction.

[msongs]

4. who knew going to steal stuff from someone's garage could end badly. unfortunately

they chose to steal stuff from the garage owned by a psychopathic gun owner. a simple "stop thief" would have been sufficient.

[oneofthe99]

6. The home owner according to statements thought he heard a metallic click

He might have possibly thought it was a round being chambered

[notadmblnd]

15. Yeah, sure. No one ever would have thought it could be the doorknob turning.

I guess some people need to tell themselves anything that will allow them to justify someone lying in wait to murder a kid.

That beer must have been pretty damn important to him since he was willing to kill for it.

[Ed Suspicious]

26. Always here to rationalize and justify killing.

[randys1]

29. Probably lying, most guns nuts are liars too

[oneofthe99]

5. The article is confusing

So there was more than 1 person who walked into the partially opened door that night.
Where did the stolen wallet and credit cards come from?

[Judi Lynn]

7. Here's an earlier story: Montana shooter may have been high when he killed German exchange student:

Montana shooter may have been high when he killed German exchange student: cops

Missoula police are drug testing Markus Kaarma, who is charged with deliberate homicide of German exchange student Diren Dede, 17, last month. Authorities say Kaarma was deliberately trying to catch a burglar after marijuana and pipes were stolen from his garage in a previous invasion.

BY Michael Walsh /
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS /
Wednesday, May 7, 2014, 7:32 AM

Markus Kaarma has been charged with deliberate homicide for allegedly setting up a trap to lure burglars into his garage.

Police say they want to know whether a Montana man was stoned or drunk when he fatally shot a German exchange student.

Homeowner Markus Kaarma, 29, is accused of setting a trap in his Missoula garage to lure in would-be burglars so he could unleash deadly force — after growing frustrated by two recent robberies and an alleged lack of law enforcement.

Police think the gunman might "have been impaired by alcohol, dangerous drugs, other drugs, intoxicating substances or a combination of the above, at the time of the incident," according to a newly published court document.

A judge granted the warrant for a drug test for any intoxicants that could be in Kaarma's system from the time he killed Diren Dede, 17, on April 27, authorities said. Officers say they found a glass jar of pot in Kaarma's house the day of the shooting.

More:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/drugs-factor-montana-garage-killing-cops-article-1.1782604#ixzz31YvHeEiC

[Ash_F]

8. Two other kids, from another night.

Sounds like the German kid took a bullet meant for those two.

[TorchTheWitch]

57. no, he took a bullet because he was stupid enough to rob

a house and so stupid as to rob a house he knew had been robbed before. He'd be alive if he didn't decide to commit a felony.

[frylock]

59. he didn't rob a house..

there's a difference between break and enter and being charged with robbery. in any case, I take it you support the irresponsible firing of guns into darkened areas?

[TorchTheWitch]

68. depends entirely on the circumstances

His own friend said he went into the garage looking to steal alcohol as they had heard that this same home was robbed of similar items before. Did you somehow miss this in the article? The damn title of this OP says that he went in their looking for alcohol for heaven's sake!

Like I said, it depends on the circumstances. Had he been killed by a home owner whose home he invaded that was genuinely scared of the person, and if their place was robbed before then certainly it can be understood that they would have been scared then there's no question that the death would be legitimate. Or are you one of those people that believes that criminals invading peoples' homes with ill intent deserve the benefit of doubt by the home owner?

Anyone that doesn't get that if you invade someone's home with ill intent you're a criminal running a high risk of being shot by someone in the home scared out of the wits that someone just broke into their home and having no idea what their intent is, whether or not they're armed, etc.

In this case it appears that the shooter may not have been genuienly afraid and fired because he was angry that his home was once again being robbed. If that turns out to be the case that's his problem. But the hell I'll for sorry for this git. No one has the RIGHT to invade anyone's home with ill intent and expect that they'll walk out again unscathed. Once again, this dude is dead because he was of criminal mind and invaded this home intending to rob the people that lived there knowing that this same home was successfully robbed before in the hope that he would also get away with it. He gave not one flying fuck that he wasn't invited and anything he might have taken out with him didn't belong to him and that what he was doing was a crime. Had he been shot by someone in the home that was genuienly afraid of him I'd care not one single fart in the wind for him. He was a fucking THIEF that didn't give a shit that he had no right to enter the property or take anything he knew he didn't own that he found there for his own selfish and KNOWINGLY criminal reasons. He also didn't give shit that he knew these people had been robbed before and would likely be scared out of their underclothing to find yet another fucking home invading THIEF in their home. And if he didn't know that the people in that home had a right to protect it as well as themselves and anyone else in the home than he's the most STUPID home invading thieving criminal on the planet. And I'm supposed to feel SORRY for him??? Fuck that.

One more time... had HE not decided to invade and rob someone's home he wouldn't be dead. There's no getting around that. I've got no sympathy for criminals that knowingly place THEMSELVES at risk, and I'm damned why the hell anyone would.

[Maedhros]

81. Your views are reprehensible.

/ignore.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. oh yeah, the poor innocent little crook

Just minding his own business invading someone's house looking to steal stuff.

[Ash_F]

71. Murderers make all kinds of excuses for their crimes

This man will pay for what he did. Watch and take note. Hopefully the consequences he faces will serve as a deterrent to those who think similarly.

[Ed Suspicious]

27. And there it is. Prime tactic #1. Don't make a judgement. Something isn't adding up. Benefit

of the doubt goes to the shooter.

[Jake Stern]

9. Only in America can one bait a person into entering their garage, kill them

and expect to be treated like a victim.

[ohnoyoudidnt]

11. Yes, hunting humans seems to becomming a popular game.

This and other recent cases have absolutely nothing to do with self-defense, but they will use such laws to try to get off.

[Mrdrboi]

10. Does ND have a Stupid Stand your Ground bullshit or something?

Sounds like the dude just wanted to kill someone. Instead of setting up motion sensors activated lights and alarms he just uses a gun. To ward of kids FFS. Fucking damn Gun Nut asshole.

Ironic the dude name is Karma. Karma is going to bit Kaarma in the ass.

[oneofthe99]

12. This wouldn't be a stand your ground case

Castle doctrine would apply here.
This is your own home and have no duty to retreat

[DirkGently]

16. But you still can't kill someone

without a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. Unless this state is wildly different from most.

Spraying shotgun rounds at someone you can't even see is not sufficient. Laying a trap is also generally illegal.

But this is where gun culture is taking us. More "freedom" to kill. Loud music, shaken popcorn; a kid you harassed into a fight.

[oneofthe99]

17. I think the shooter has set the ground work for that by saying

in his statement to police he heard a metallic sound before firing.

I don't think it's going to work for him but it depends on the jury picked.

I've seen police officers not charged with firing and killing someone
where by looking at the video it didn't appear he or they feared serious bodily harm.

I don't know the entire circumstances what exactly happened those few seconds before he pulled the trigger.
If it's proved he broke the law then convict him

I don't think the term baiting is appropriate because it doesn't matter if a door is left open
A person has the right to not have an intruder enter his home in the middle of the night
whether a door is unlocked or open.

[Stryder]

18. I think

this might not work out well for him,
Kaarma allegedly told a hairdresser several days prior that he was waiting up to kill the intruders, whom he referred to as "kids," according to court documents.

[oneofthe99]

19. He's going to deny that , if he even said it in that way..

A jury will decide if the hairdresser sounds credible on the stand.....she might not

[Feral Child]

23. You sound hopeful.

You're defending a murderer.

[oneofthe99]

61. My hope is that the jury system prevails correctly and if a person is Innocent

he isn't convicted because of anti gun bias.

It seems by some here , he has already been convicted before a trial..................

Not good....

[Feral Child]

75. The details are known.

This was an ambush, not self-defense.

I'm a gun owner, with a carry permit, though I seldom bother. I don't have an anti-gun bias.

This guy committed a murder that he's trying to escape punishment for because he heard a "metallic click".

Not everything is an attack on your 2nd Amendment rights.

[Maedhros]

82. The idiot shot and killed a high school kid because he might have stolen some beer

or maybe a hedge trimmer or something.

Human life >>> contents of a garage.

[Sunlei]

24. good point. was a "premeditated or planned" murder. Person even bragged about their 'plan'.

[raccoon]

21. "he heard a metallic sound before firing."--yeah, right. nt

[frylock]

58. he also set the groundwork for murder 1 when he bragged about setting up his little honeypot..

this dumbfuck is cooked.

[oneofthe99]

60. hearsay

[frylock]

62. well i'm sure they'll call the witness..

you seem to have a lot invested in proving this worthless fuckstain's innocence. I certainly hope that you're disappointed.

[oneofthe99]

63. You never know , when she is finally interviewed by the DA

they could find out she changed her words around .......

Who knows ..... I wouldn't be surprised one bit if her statement to police is taken out of the prosecutions case

[frylock]

64. i'm sure you'll lose many hours of sleep hoping that happens

[oneofthe99]

67. All I like to see is the truth in our justice system

No predisposed bias , just look at what's happing in this thread because of gun bias

Most people have already convicted this man by what they have read by
a possibly over zealous DA , it happens and we all know this ...

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_18002325





Lets wait for a trial and hear the evidence , I don't think you object to that.

[frylock]

69. i have gun bias..

as a gun owner, I'm biased against any idiot asshole that just starts blazing away into a darkened area without having a fixed target.

[oneofthe99]

70. You realize that the only side you heard is what the prosecutor and police are putting out?

[frylock]

72. so they're making this all up then?

is that your contention?

[oneofthe99]

73. My contention is lets wait for a trial so the defense can give theirs

Why does this seem so foreign to you......

[randys1]

30. And that is insane

[IronGate]

34. Why should you have to retreat from your own home?

Suppose you have young children in the house and a burglar entered the home? Would you still have them retreat?
What kind of thinking is it when you can't even defend your own home? When you're forced by law to retreat thereby putting yourself and your family in further danger?

[randys1]

35. No, you should be able to shoot and kill a girl scout trying to sell cookies too

She might be menacing, you never know...

[IronGate]

36. What a dumbass answer.

Did that girl scout surreptitiously enter with the intent to steal belongings?
Try to be competent in your answers.

I'll try again, why shouldn't a home owner have the right to defend their home against someone who illegally enters?
Why should a home owner be forced to retreat from their own home?

[randys1]

37. so you admit you should be allowed to END SOMEONES LIFE if they steal a basketball

from your garage, right?

I mean that is the DUMBASS fucking argument you are making

RIGHT?><>>>>>??????



JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

[IronGate]

38. I don't admit a fucking thing.

You're the one who said that the Castle Doctrine law is insane.
So, one more time, why shouldn't a home owner be allowed to defend their domicile against an unlawful intruder?

And I do condemn that idiot for setting a trap, that's illegal throughtout the US and he will likely pay the price for it.

[randys1]

39. Any doctrine that allows you to kill someone for stealing ANYTHING is insane

unless they have a gun pointed at your head or a knife at your throat, you are a murderer if you shoot them

[IronGate]

42. If someone is in your home illegally,

then one can assume the worse.
I myself won't wait for a criminal to point a gun at my head or have a knife at my throat, I'm going to assume that if they have the gall to enter my home without my permission, then they are a threat to me and my family's well being and I will take appropriate action, up to and including deadly force.

unless they have a gun pointed at your head or a knife at your throat, you are a murderer if you shoot them

You're wrong, the law says you have the right to defend your home against an invader.

[randys1]

44. Then you are a danger to society and your neighbors...period

You are saying that your life does not have to be threatened, that ANY person coming into your house for ANY Reason you have the right to kill them and you likely will.

I dont want to live in the same country with someone who thinks like you...

[IronGate]

47. Can't get anything right can you?

I never said that I would likely kill and intruder, I said that if someone is in my home illegally, I'm going to assume the worse and take appropriate action up to and including deadly force.
Whether or not I use my right to defend my home, myself, my family rests wholly upon the intruder.

Whether or not you want to live in the same country as I do is irrelevent to this discussion, the fact is that in this country home owners are legally allowed to defend their home against those that would violate the sanctity of that home.

In this case, Kaarma is, IMO, guilty of murder for setting a trap, which isn't covered under any form of Castle Doctrine.

In an earlier post I said this:

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[randys1]

48. You arent arguing with me, you are arguing with the human race

Human beings have a long ways to go, evolution wise.

When you evolve to the point where you would say "the very last thing I would want to do or do intentionally is take a life over property", then you will be getting close.

[IronGate]

51. And, I never said I would take a life over property,

but I would defend my family against an intruder who invaded my home, and if they have the balls to invade an occupied home, then I can assume the worse and be ready to take appropriate action to keep my family safe, if the intruder ends up getting hurt or killed due to their actions, that's too bad for them.

I and my family have no duty to retreat from our own home because someone saw fit to invade my home while we're there, that's the core of the Castle Doctrine and I fully support it.

[juajen]

54. A true story.

One night, about eight o'clock, my family and a friend were sitting around my dining room table, when a blonde, maybe drunk, thirtyish, just walked into my kitchen through my carport door.

We all were shocked at seeing a stranger walk in our door without knocking or any warning. I asked her if something was wrong, and she said she needed to hide, that she jumped out of a car to escape a man who was trying to detain her without her permission. It was a little scary. I immediately locked all doors and called the police. She never objected to my calling the police. I told them basically that a woman needed help and had dropped into my house unexpectedly to get that help. They sent a female cop, and she kindly asked a few questions, and told the lady that she would take her any where she needed to go and that she could file charges,etc.

If that had been a man, I can tell you that it would have really been frightening. She could have been scamming me also. But, my instinct was to get her some help and get her to where she would not be scaring my children, who were asleep at the time.

People do sometimes need help, but our society is so screwed up now that everyone fears strangers, and rightly so. The Milk of Human Kindness is disappearing from our society, but, as horrible as that is, we all have reasons to be cautious. Sad times.

[IronGate]

43. One more thing.

Don't want to get hurt or possibly killed? Don't break into other's homes.
As the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[LanternWaste]

52. Or get out of the bed in the morning...

"Don't want to get hurt or possibly killed? Don't break into other's homes..."


Or get out of the bed in the morning and live one's life...

[IronGate]

53. If living one's life means being a criminal breaking into other's homes,

then the risk of being injured or killed is greatly increased.

[upaloopa]

40. Especially if she makes a metallic clicking sound

Gunners live in fear and that makes them a menace to society. You see in this tread and others the only thing they can think is how can I protect gun rights.
I think they are sick because they are only motivated by the need to have a gun to face what we all do on a daily basis.

[randys1]

41. And is sickens me to find so many of them on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND

add these geniuses to the white privilege deniers and not much liberal about this place, sadly

[Judi Lynn]

13. Hope they will sell tickets!

Welcome to D.U. , Mrdrboi.

[IronGate]

14. Montana, not North Dakota,

and SYG doesn't apply here, Castle Doctrine does.

[onehandle]

20. Another gun culture atrocity. nt

[Sunlei]

22. it will happen in the USA where people will start to set deadly passive traps around their homes.

Then some people will argue that its their right to set, dead fall traps, bear traps, pungi-stick pitfalls and plenty of other crazy traps intended to maim or kill.

Then some innocent neighbor, a police officer or even their own kids will be killed. Only in America!

[Ed Suspicious]

25. I think karma is gonna be a bitch to these premeditated murdering fuckers!

'Kaarma allegedly told a hairdresser several days prior that he was waiting up to kill the intruders, whom he referred to as "kids,"'

[brewens]

32. I've been waiting for some kids to get killed on Halloween for some prank.

I can just imagine doing some of the stuff we used to do with all these trigger happy morans around these days.

[tblue37]

74. That already happened last Halloween, when a few kids pranked the car of a friend

who had pranked them some time earlier. The friend's father came out and shot into their car as they drove away, killing a 15-year-old girl:

"Arkansas homeowner who shot dead 15-year-old girl prankster says he only meant to ‘scare’ teens"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ark-homeowner-shot-dead-15-year-old-girl-meant-scare-teens-article-1.1619254

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/ark-homeowner-shot-dead-15-year-old-girl-meant-scare-teens-article-1.1619254#ixzz31iJOTwNC

ON EDIT: That car he shot at was full of young kids! :"Another teen, Dshone Nelson, 18, was cut by glass shattered by the bullets. There were also three 15-year-olds, a 14-year-old and a 17-year-old in the car."

[exboyfil]

77. You don't even have to do anything wrong

Just ring the doorbell when you have a Halloween costume on.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/24/us/acquittal-in-doorstep-killing-of-japanese-student.html

[yurbud]

45. stealing beer from fridges in open garages warrants a stern talking to be cops and/or parents

not death.

[Paladin]

50. +1. (nt)

[yurbud]

46. this guy could have set up a camera trap and had evidence to give the cops

unless he was dealing with an armed intruder, this is uncalled for.

[Louisiana1976]

76. Well said. Lock him up and throw away the key.

[Nay]

49. I've always wondered why gun owners who want to deter prowlers, etc., don't

buy a shotgun and fill it with a relatively non-lethal load of birdshot or salt. The cocking of a shotgun would scare off 99% of people with bad intentions and the shooter wouldn't have a death of any kind on his conscience, especially the death of a relatively innocent person (kid, neighbor, stranger seeking help, idiot drunk guy looking for a beer, etc.)

I keep coming to the disturbing conclusion that there are shooters out there who are simply looking to kill someone for jollies.

[oneofthe99]

65. It's that 1% that wouldn't be and also have a gun or a knife.

Even if the person isn't armed you have no obligation to tussle with him if he is in your home.
You have every right to end the threat with deadly force

[Lurks Often]

66. Fairly certain that "relatively non-lethal load of birdshot or salt" is illegal

and birdshot at close range causes horrendous injuries.

I think the homeowner is going to jail for murder. I am always skeptical about the initial reporting though.

While the teen did not deserve to be shot, if he had kept on walking he would be alive today, so he did bear some responsibility for what happened that night.

To put it another way, if you don't drive over the speed limit, you won't get a ticket for speeding.

[yurbud]

78. they miss the lynch mob days

[tblue37]

80. He waited up at night because he WANTED to shoot the intruders,

whom he acknowledged to be "kids" when talking about his plans prior to that night. He wanted to kill someone. (As did Byron Smith.)

"Kaarma had been burgled twice before, and he told his hairdresser that he had stayed up for three nights waiting to shoot some kid, prosecutors said <emphasis added>."

more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2621951/German-exchange-student-shot-dead-homeowner-garage-hopping-learning-local-kids.html#ixzz31vBmK67R

[truthisfreedom]

79. Bad Kaarma.

[christx30]

84. What we should take from this

is a lesson:
If you won't stop yourself from stealing from someone out of respect for other people's property, do it because there is a very good chance they will kill you.