Poroshenko claims Ukraine presidency

[muriel_volestrangler]

Last edited Sun May 25, 2014, 02:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: BBC

Ukrainian confectionery tycoon Petro Poroshenko has claimed outright victory in the country's presidential election.

Mr Poroshenko, known as the "chocolate king", won more than 55% of the vote in the first round, exit polls suggest.

Announcing he had won, the 48-year-old businessman promised to forge closer links with the EU and restore peace in restive eastern regions.

Pro-Russian separatists severely disrupted voting there. Some 20 people have died in fighting in recent days.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27569057

[joshcryer]

1. Anti-democratic separatists.

[Texas Elvis]

5. Thye held a referendum two weeks ago with a large turnout for separation.

Why do you so badly want them to be under the thumb of Kiev? From the video's I've seen they look like regular people that don't want rule by neo-nazi groups that have been killing them in mass. Here's a video of their "Thank You" parade for their fallen soldiers. They don't seem anti-democratic at all. As a matter of fact they seem inspiring in their desire to fight against fascism.

Why do people like yourself try to rationalize that these people should be supressed and subjugated to being under a regime they have no desire for? Why should they send their wages to a city that wants them wiped from the Earth.

[joshcryer]

6. Those elections were a sham.

Even Putin, who has never been legitimately elected, didn't recognize it.

Don't know why you think dictatorial Russia is better than Europe.

[Duckhunter935]

11. I can make a million copies

of prefilled out ballots and bar reporters and international observers and call the same bullshit as they did there.

At least these elections were monitored and had rules, too bad some had to destroy polling places and ballot boxes to try and stop the free choice of the Ukrainian people for several cities in the East

In the city of Donetsk, no polling stations were open and ballot boxes confiscated by armed separatists were stacked in front of the regional administration insurgents have long occupied and marked as “trash” bins. One polling station managed to open briefly in the city of one million but was closed ten minutes later by masked gunmen. And in the nearby town of Horlivka, right in the heart of east Ukraine’s so-called Bermuda Triangle, where dozens have gone missing in the past few weeks, no polling stations opened. With four hours until the polls closed, the turnout in Donetsk was only nine percent, compared to over 40 percent in the rest of the country, according to the election commission.

Across both oblasts the story was the same: the polling station in Dokuchaievsk was scheduled to open late at 10 a.m. but separatists ordered election officials in the town of 24,000 not do so and they didn’t demur.

In Luhansk oblast, eight districts failed to open up out of 12, according to Interior Ministry officials, but local reporters said only two were functioning.

International rights organizations monitoring the east condemned what they described as “a violence spree” by armed insurgents.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/25/separatists-shut-down-vote-in-eastern-ukraine.html

Way to allow the people to voice their vote at the polls

[Texas Elvis]

14. The Daily Beast? Come on. You have to do better than that.

Here's what ballot boxes were used for in Donetsk. Trash receptacles at the parade for their soldiers who are fighting against neo-nazi fascists.

And once again here is their parade for their soldiers who have died fighting the Right Sector.

And here's a ballot from Donetsk. Some people are voting. In this case the person voted for Chuck Norris.



Why are people like yourself and Josh against separating the country and letting the East live in peace without oligarchs and fascism?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Because people like you are talking BS like 'neo-Nazi fascists', perhaps?

The parliament in Kiev is the one elected in 2012. What changed was the president - who got out, after it was clear his support had gone. It's also clear that he was massively corrupt. And now they've elected a new one.

Guess which side the neo-Nazi fascists in Greece, 'Golden Dawn', support?

https://news.vice.com/article/i-know-you-are-a-fascist-but-what-am-i

Putin, of course.

[Texas Elvis]

21. Maybe you can explain who these guys are.

Graham Philips confronting them right after his release.

You do know who Right Sector is and what they stand for right?

[karynnj]

22. Do you know that Right Sector never had over 5% of the vote?

In the 1960s, George Wallace had easily 3 or more times as much, yet NO ONE would describe the US as if it was run by George Wallace. (Not to mention, Wallace at least had some states where he was strongest - right sector - not so much.)

Where is your sense of history? Ever since the USSR fell, a major concern with RUSSIA has been their growing national movement that has been anti any group not Russian! Their fascist party's are far larger and they are encouraged by Putin.

[Texas Elvis]

29. Right Sector is the violent arm of the Svoboda party

that has 12% of the vote. Svoboda is also closely aligned with the nationalist "Fatherland Party" which comprises most of the vote in the West of Ukraine. They all worship Stephen bandera of the SS Galacian division that worked alongside Hitler. They murdered all those people at the Trade Union House. Some were raped. Another was a pregnant woman who was strangled. Can you explain that womans strangulation or that rape? They played a major role in the new Kiev government.

You can't brush over what they have done when the video's are all over the internet for everyone to see. Did you see the BBC special on their party and influence? That has nothing to do with Putin. I know the Western press wants to keep Putin as the bogeyman for blind people to focus upon but those that support what went on in Ukraine are twice as bad as Putin. Massacres took place by Right Sector in Odessa and Mariupol. Here's a link to the BBC story after Maidan which proves I am correct in my understanding of them.

They haven't dissapeared. The election hasn't chnaged that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. You're just parroting RT propaganda

Right Sector and Svoboda are separate, and Svoboda does not have much power in the government. They do not "all worship Stephen bandera". The fire in Odessa was started by molotov cocktails, which both sides in the riot were using. There has been extensive violence by the people who have proclaimed themselves in charge of Donetsk; they are more dangerous than Right Sector.

[Duckhunter935]

34. leader of the Svoboda Party

Oleh Tyahnybok / Svoboda 1.3 percent
Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh won 0.9 percent of the vote

HUGE majority

A little less than 12% you think for the president elect.

Does not seem to be anywhere near a majority. Yes I am sure all of the West is all no-fascist Hitler loving zealots in another reality.

and Yes I am sure there are some thugs that think they are the shit. That would be on both sides.

[newthinking]

47. Right Sector had 0 percent because they were recently formed. Why talk about what you know nothing

about? Please. Or are you willing to tell people what they should believe without doing research first?

Right Sector formed during Maidan. But they have quickly become a formidable force, not because they are predominant, but because of the role they had inb Maidan, the executive positions they were given in the Kiev administration, and because everyone is afraid to cross them.

Now Svoboda, one of the other neo-nazi groups had about 8% in the last election. But they have grown since them. But really what you are pointing out is that indeed they, and "Maidan" were actually a minority government that only came to power through threat using neo-nazi's. That bears out in the election yesterday, since even without full participation of much of the south and east a far more moderate person won and NONE of the candidates that represent the current political junta received much of the vote at all.

[Duckhunter935]

25. and they got less

than 1% of the vote. The former Presidents party got way more votes, even when in the East, they were prevented from voting by closed polling location and threats of violence.

another epic fail

Klitschko calls for end to Maidan in Kiev: Thank you for sacrifice-now I call on everyone to help remove barricades.

http://t.co/IYXmLlwHQA

Lets see if they do and also if the they do this in the East as not there is a democratically elected President.

[newthinking]

107. And if they replace the heads of National Security, Defense, and the Attorney general

as long as those people stay in power it suggests that little will really change and the existing balance of power remains unchanged.
The Parliament removed the President's ability to replace them directly.

More power to him though

[Texas Elvis]

31. Oh and here's your Kiev governemnt by the way....

volume warning.

Do you seriously think the people in the East want to be part of that? Who would? If that's a legitimate mature government then I'm Elvis Presley.

[Duckhunter935]

35. it happens

in other countries also

[Texas Elvis]

37. But Ukraine does it best!

This candidate from the East was beaten, had his house burned down and has received death threats. The EU decided it wasn't enough and actually put sanctions on him. How is that for justice?


From Wikipedia.

Tsarov was a self-nominated candidate in the 2014 Ukrainian presidential election.[2][5][6] On 29 March a Party of Regions convention supported Mykhailo Dobkin nomination as a presidential candidate.[2] On 7 April 2014 the political council of that party expelled Tsarov from the party.[2] On 11 April 2014 Tsarov traveled to Donetsk and said he was ready to become a leader of the so-called "South-east movement". According to one source quoted by the National Press Agency of Ukraine, Tsarov also assured separatists in Donetsk that would do everything to disrupt the May 25, 2014 presidential elections. "I'm sure that will be no elections," he said. He then promised that he would create a "central authority" within the center of Donetsk.[7] On 14 April, Oleg Tsarov was beaten by a mob after an interview in the ICTV building in Kiev. The beating was denied by some,[8] though press agencies published videos of the mob and photos of Oleg Tsarov half-naked with bruises.[9][10] Tsarov withdrew his presidential candidacy on 29 April.[8] He claimed to so because it was dangerous for him to continue his presidential campaign and meet with voters in Kiev (earlier that month Tsarov said he had been beaten by pro-Western radical Ukrainian activists in Kiev).[8] Tsarov called on "all presidential candidates representing Ukraine's eastern and southeastern regions" (namely) Petro Symonenko, Mykhailo Dobkin, Serhiy Tihipko and Renat Kuzmin to boycott the election; because "An election that is being held while a civil war is unfolding must be boycotted".[8][11] He added that if they did not withdrew they would be "playing into the hands of the illegitimate authorities and legitimizing not only them but also their decision to start a civil war against the eastern regions".[11]

On May 13, 2014 Tsarov was sanctioned by the European Union for calling for the creation of Federal Republic of New Russia (Novorossia).[12] Also in May 2014, a recording of a death threat phone call allegedly made to Tsarov by the governor of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast and owner of PrivatBank, Ihor Kolomoisky, began circulating in social media. In the call Kolomoisky tells Tsarov that there is a bounty of $1 million on his head, and to stay in Moscow if he doesn't want to be killed. Tsarov claimed the call was authentic.[13]

[Duckhunter935]

40. At least he was not shot in the back or

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/
worse tortured and dumped in the river after being murdered.

two bodies were found "brutally tortured by pro-Russian" militants near the eastern city of Slaviansk.

Mr Turchinov said in a statement that one of the bodies was that of Volodymyr Rybak, a member of the ruling Batkivshchyna party, who had recently been abducted by “terrorists.”

Local media said Mr Rybak was kidnapped in Horlivka, a nearby locality, on Wednesday last week.

Police from the regional headquarters in Donetsk said that the body of a man who died a violent death had been found in the Seversky-Donets river and that it resembled Mr Rybak, a local councillor in the town of Horlivka, near Donetsk.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/23/uk-ukraine-crisis-politician-video-idUKBREA3M0U520140423
http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20140423&t=2&i=891209853&w=580&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=CBREA3M0XSG00

[Adrahil]

71. That's a whole lotta BS For being a 1 day member....

... I smell a banned member alt.

[newthinking]

106. So new members should not express a position different than yours?

Last time I checked, one's understanding of events in Ukraine was not a TOS violation?

[joshcryer]

114. I don't think banned.

But can't disagree alt, I've seen that writing style before.

[davidpdx]

116. The Koreans

I've lived in Korea for 10 years. Never underestimate the Korean National Assembly..

Hell even the women get in on it:

[newthinking]

49. Putin is mostly immaterial. The problems have been the power and positions they gave to the neo-nazi

leaders. They were given power over the military, national security, and the Attorney General. In addition basically a secondary army was allowed to roam and create fear that was made up of these people.
As it turns out they were also given material support by one of the oligarchs, and indeed they have had a dramatic impact on events. It is simply SHAMEFUL to try and minimize the impact that extreme and fairly extreme elements have had. Too many people have died because of it.

Thankfully, the real majority, in both the west and east bypassed the parties in the MINORITY government and voted for the most moderate candidate (that was allowed to participate without threat of bodily harm).

The remaining problem is that the current MPs have essentially voted themselves in to a 5 year term and will resist another election so that they can be replaced by people who really represent the country.

Just what the hell are people here thinking? You are supporting the opposite of democracy!

[LittleBlue]

87. So Josh...

Please explain to me how the people of Ukraine are better under this oligarch.

I bet the Crimeans are kicking themselves that they won't be able to venerate their Chocolate King

[joshcryer]

95. They will move toward EU anti-corruption.

The oligarchs will become plutocrats. It will be marginally better. It won't be great. Rather than wholesale theft they will resort to political maneuvering and cronyism.

[newthinking]

102. Which will be a good thing, as long as they stop using fascists thugs and the press to

disenfranchise and demonize half the country.

I am in support of this change, not because I think this Oligarch is clean (I doubt it), but because he does not seem like he is interested in the racist undertones that have dominated the current government and he is likely to at least attempt to clean out the neo-nazi's or at least marginalize them. That is what the Oligarchs did 10 years ago, they do have a kind of order they establish. They like having an edge in getting wealthy, but they prefer not to do so violently.

[LittleBlue]

112. Let me get this straight

The Chocolate King is going to move Ukraine toward anti-corruption?

Do you actually believe that?

[joshcryer]

113. The Maidan protests were anti-corruption.

So if he does not then he will be seeing protests just as his two predecessors.

Which is quaint when you see pro-Russia tweeters mocking him and saying he will be "ousted" soon too. We'll see if he wants to take Ukraine on the right track or whether he wants to screw it over even more. The fact that he's called for new elections is very promising. I expect efforts to federalize the country as well so that the eastern states can have more say.

[Texas Elvis]

2. Was there ever any doubt for that guy?

The entire Western media establishment had called the election for him well before it had ever begun. One pro western oligarch vs one pro eastern. Not much has changed except the people will pay twice as much for austerity measures and have their resources sold off to western companies.

[karynnj]

27. Yes there was - but over time he first became the front runner and then

eventually a frontrunner looking to get a landslide in an election with somewhere around 21 names on the ballot.

In the last week, the POLLS showed that he was the dominant force and likely to get more than 50%. That is why the entire Western media wrote articles saying he would likely win. I would assume that if you are from a country which has elections, you have seen someone poll very well, be labeled the likely winner -- and then win. It is NOT mysterious.

Here, if you bothered to follow anything, you would know that he was helped in this because AFTER he became the frontrunner, 2 other major candidates conceded and endorsed him --- stating they wanted a conclusive victory.

[newthinking]

50. And the parties in current power did not win. Even though the West voted more heavily than the east.

Imagine that? But we were told that the current administration represented the majority. You and the other posters here are on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of democracy. You have been sold a bunch of bullshit that has maligned most of the people of Ukraine.

[Duckhunter935]

60. and the ones in power now did exactly what they said

have elections in 90 days and follow the will of the people. Now they have an elected president and will have early Parliamentary elections. You now seem to be willing to follow the will of the people in electing a President that wants a united Ukraine and won with good majority of the votes. Kiev has a new democratically elected Mayor and is calling for the removal of the Maidan barricades. Now we will see if the self appointed non democratically elected people in the east follow suit. The new President elect has even said whis first action will be to go see the separatist leaders and talk.

[newthinking]

62. Where have you heard that the current government has announced early parlimentary elections?

Citation please or it did not happen. All I have heard is that the elected President wants them, which is indeed a good thing.

[Duckhunter935]

63. My mistake

The new President-elect is calling for them. Unlike in the east were they have not had any elections and some guys just appointed themselves.

[karynnj]

65. Rather weird - YOU spun that the west was all fascist

The fact is that the interim President was picked with the idea that he would not run -- and he didn't. The man who won is by no means a rejection of the west. He was was Pro-Maiden and pro-EU.

YOU were the one saying that Svoboda and Right sector were dominant in Kiev - even as people disputed you and your RT links.

I have no idea if the new President elect will be a good or even great leader, but I know Putin is not a good guy.

[Adrahil]

73. How did the Party of Regions do?

Yeah, someone is peddling bullshit.

[newthinking]

78. POR was severly neutralized and much of the East/Southeast did not show up

Of course that will not be how it is presented. You have it backwards on who is peddling bullshit.. or alternatively talking out of their you know what because they have not researched and do not know the situation as well as they say.

Granted I am glad for this election because this guy is much more moderate.



Here is one of the polling places in Xarkiv - Look at those lines!!

[Duckhunter935]

82. did not show up, bull

they were prevented from voting by armed thugs that destroyed ballot boxed and threatened poll workers.

Outside the Donetsk regional administration building, which has been occupied by government opponents since early April, a group of masked men drove up carrying confiscated ballot boxes and made a show of smashing them in front of a journalist's camera.

One polling station in the city opened in the morning, but minutes later a group of gunmen arrived and forced the election commission out, its chief, Nadia Melnyk, said on Ukraine's Channel 5.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/5/25/ukraine-presidentialelections.html

[newthinking]

93. That was only in a few districts. The video is from Xarkiv where they were not under any duress

Why are you so intent on having to show a "white" view that is not only incomplete but really not necessary at this point.

The propaganda and one sided view is part of what brought things to a boil. And if you really care about the people there you might not want to continue to demonize half the population.

Everyone is going to accept the "Chocolate Oligarch" regardless if the vote was complete, because most of the population wants the current government out. What is more important to simmering things down is for this disenfranchisement of significant swaths of the population halt, so they can get the bad actors on both sides out and get back to democracy. Hopefully also get a handle on corruption, though that will not be so easy as while they selectively removed a few people in a partisan fashion there was no real sweep and corruption is endemic in the West just as in the rest of the country.

So why is it so important to continue this black and white meme? The more nuanced truth will server the future better for all concerned?

[Zipgun]

44. I do not know if he is a good guy, but I am sure Putin is a bad guy.

And Putin is not just looking at the Ukraine. If I were any of Russia's neighbors, I'd be a little nervous.

[Duckhunter935]

3. Hope he will do well

Screwed up situation and he wants to dialog with the Eastern provinces.

http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/topic/ukraine___presidential_elections_2014

The former presidents party candidate received around 5%
Looks like the right sector boogeymen got less than 1%

I am curious on how RT will spin this. Not bad since armed men stormed and threatend many polling stations in the East.

At least this election had many, many international observers to monitor if it was free and fair.

[davidpdx]

13. Well certainly they can not blame the right sector anymore

though we know they'll continue to use that as along as they can. The guy was elected, gained a majority of the votes, and was monitored by international observers. What more can they ask for? Yes, it will be interesting how this is spun because most likely they are going to say it is another government overthrow.

Those in the east have two choices, continue what they are doing until it turns into a violent bloody civil war or sit down and talk about the changes that need to be made with the new administration.

[Duckhunter935]

16. At least the new President elect

wants to to talk to the east and is even offering amnesty for most.

Presidential candidate Petro Poroshenko, who has mustered over 55% of the vote, according to exit polls, has confirmed plans to travel to Donbas on his first visit as president.

"I will travel to Donbas on my first presidential visit," he said at a press briefing at his campaign staff on Sunday.

Poroshenko thanked "thousands of residents of Crimea and hundreds of thousands of residents of Donbas" for taking part in the polls.

"We can say with confidence and determination: the whole of Ukraine cast its ballots. It is the choice made by the whole of Ukraine," Poroshenko said.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/poroshenko-pledges-to-travel-to-donbas-on-first-presidential-visit-349305.html

[davidpdx]

18. Though I'm not so sure about the idea of him going to these hotspot areas

The lawlessness and hatred for anyone in power will pretty much give them carte blanche to open fire on anyone they don't like.

[newthinking]

51. Trouble is the current MPs have removed much of the President's power to change the executive and

given themselves a full 5 year term.

It will be a fight to get back to democracy.

[Texas Elvis]

24. Why does it have to be a civil war for you guys?

Why can't the East have their own peaceful country next to the fascist one?

[karynnj]

30. Such a short sentence and so much wrong

1) The majority of the people in the East do not want a separate country per the only poll done ---- the seperatist election was a farce - done without even any poll records. Not to mention, they stuffed the ballot boxes. How many countries have recognized the two entities as countries?

2) Less than 1% voted for Right Sector, which Russia has claimed as who was running Ukraine. Russia has spammed the East for weeks with dishonest news speaking of the "fascists". (Now, Putin has to deal with no Russians willing to take the train to Crimea for a holiday. So there is very little tourism there this spring!)

I KNOW the real Elvis was not from Texas - something makes me question whether you are even from this country.

[Texas Elvis]

33. We all saw the elections in the East.

The turnout was massive. The video's are everywhere. How can you, who sit comfortably in the US, speak for all those people who came out to their referendum? What right do you have to decide their future with your inaccurate information?

Why wouldn't it make sense that an entire region that borders Russia filled with Russian people who speak Russian want to not be aligned with nazis who want to kill them and suppress them? How hard is that for you to figure out. The geographical lay of the land is what makes them who they are. There is no way Kiev even with the support of the West is going to suppress that many people not with the internet and video showing it all. The atrocities against them are already adding up.

Maybe they don't want the deaths of all their loved ones to be just so Joe Bidens son and John Kerrys aquaintance can get rich.
How you guys rationalize starting a civil war against these people is beyond comprehension. Obviosuly you don't really care about them and have your own agenda.

At least with splitting the country along naturally divided ethnic lines no one has to die. I would figure that may be a better way to go. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess you think the loss of life is worth it?

Oh and not that it's any of your business as you question my ability to post (which is quite KGB of you) but Texas Elvis was my dog who died last year. He was a great dalmatian with twice the honest character and integrity of someone like yourself who writes that civil war may be an option. Why would you want all that killing when things could be decided by peaceful means. This is a liberal ant-war site I'm on , isn't it?

[Duckhunter935]

38. So new to the forum

And spewing so much in such a short time.

No one here is wishing for a civil war. So the entire west of the country is just Nazi's trying to to kill and suppress the east. Yes there was a large turnout in several cities in the east. There was also ballot stuffing no controls over ballots, pre-filled out ballots seized. No international observers. reporters barred from polling places or having a minder assigned. A vaguely worded question for the vote. And the polls showed a very different result

Many questions on that vote

Today's vote
Free and open in most of the country, international observers welcomed. Much better ballot security. Reporters free to record and observer voting. Polls seemed to match the outcome. Even with the threats to voters and voting officials in the and the forced closing and destruction of voting locations in some eastern cities.

I think I would recognize today's vote as free and fair as opposed to the sham.

[karynnj]

39. I did NOT write that civil war is an option

The fact is that it is not hard to get photographs of a large number of people -- in a region with millions of people. It would have been incompetent for ANY reporter to not find large crowds voting.

However, even from Russian accounts, it is pretty clear that NONE of the normal work to insure a fair election were done. There were huge areas - outside the population centers most behind the secession where there was no voting. Not to mention, it was not comply clear what exactly they were asked to vote for. There were accounts where many voted FOR the question, but argued that the East should remain a part of Ukraine. (So, people voting yes - could mean that they wanted more regional power within Ukraine, an independent state, OR that they wanted to become part of Russia.) Another description for that is a hot mess.

Another problem was they had no voting rolls. Why is this important - it means they cannot control who votes or even know how many times they voted!

You have called the Kiev interim government "illegal", but it was instituted by the elected Rada and was INTERIM because they called for an election in 90 days. 90 days was about as quick as any election could be organized, international observers put in place. In contrast, the "leaders" of the two breakaway areas were self appointed and they actually attacked many of the elected officials of those areas. ( Note that those officials were NOT appointed by the interim government. It is interesting that the local officials seemed to have little or no role in the seperatist groups. Not to mention, many people involved were not even from the local area. )

[Igel]

41. You saw the videos.

You utterly missed the context.

There was a nifty report. I think it was at novosti.dn.ua. The reporter went to vote at the 5 voting stations in Donetsk--the largest city.

Hundreds of thousands of voters. 5 polling places. Open 10 hours. Think it through.

He went to one with a set of stock questions. "Can I vote here?" "Do I need my passport?" "Can I vote for my wife?"

At the first place with long lines he needed his passport and couldn't vote for his wife. He reported that the urns weren't all that full. At the second place he didn't need his passport but couldn't vote for his wife. The urn was half full, 2-3 people were there. At the third place he needed no passport and could vote for his wife, no line. The urn was rather full. Reporters at the fourth place, he needed a passport but they let him vote for his wife, and there were long lines. And the urn wasn't even half-full. The fifth place he voted for himself and wife with no passport, and the urn was reasonably full. No lines.

A few quips that he added. First, the fullness of the urns was inversely proportional to the presence of cameras. The length of the lines was directly proportional to the presence of cameras (and empty charter buses parked nearby). He voted 5 times, once at each polling station. He voted twice for his wife, although if he had her passport all the places would have let him vote. He didn't have her passport, though, mostly because he's single and didn't 't have a wife ... even though she *was* able to cast two votes.

On 5/11 the reports were "long lines" in areas with lots of voters and few polling places. It was attributed to large turnout. Today the reports are "long lines" in areas with lots of voters and few polling places. It's attributed to the fact that if you have 2 workers working 10 hours and they can process 120 voters per hour (tops), you're guaranteed long lines even if you only have 1500 people turn out. Yet 80 thousand supposedly voted at each polling place in Donetsk on 5/11.

You've been manipulated.

[Duckhunter935]

80. The so call Nazi's

lost in this election big time. But we will have to just disagree as I believe there was no coup and the democratically elected Parliament replaced the disgraced President as he took his loot and fled the country in the middle of the night. The interim government called for elections in 90 days and that has now happened and the Right Sector party did very poorly at the polls. These elections were monitored by many countries and I am sure we will hear what they saw, you can not keep that many people quiet.

Now in the East some guys just self imposed themselves in power and are have not had any elections. The referendum was poorly worded so people did not know if it was to join Russia, Independence from Ukraine as a new country or just a Ukraine federation with more power to the regions. No international monitors were allowed in.

I assume you now mwean all of the people in the west are just Nazi thugs killing the people in the east.

[Duckhunter935]

104. you are not the nice poster today are you now?

"What are you Joe Biden's fucking overprivileged son?"

What kind of bull is this, you really need to calm down and be a little more polite.

apology accepted

[OKNancy]

117. they are banned now

they were a sock of a poster on the time out list. You could probably guess who it was/is

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. Will the original account get banned too?

I can see one enthusiastic poster on Ukraine who is currently 'on a break', but the account isn't banned yet.

[OKNancy]

120. the admins will have to do it

but that has been the procedure in the past when others have done the same

[Duckhunter935]

121. I figured it was just a matter of time nt

[William769]

122. You want to talk about honesty character and integrity

Ok lets talk about that. You are now banned because you have tried to abuse the system. The reason you were banned is because you are also the DU member "go west young man" http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=157733

And here is the reason for this account. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=314717&sub=trans

Here's a little gem from you http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4994202

This http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2262779 to this http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=811439

For transparency on DU3 I want people to know who exactly you are so when and if you are ever able to post again as "go west young man", they will know all about your honesty character and integrity.

[greatauntoftriplets]

123. I KNEW that Texas Elvis was a troll.

Good work, MIRT!

[William769]

124. Just goes to show some of the dirty trcks that some will stoop to

To further their lost cause. Reminds me of the bullshit Russia Today tries to pull.

[greatauntoftriplets]

125. Unfortunately, he's not the first.

I totally agree that RT is BS. From Putin's lips to the true believers' ears.

[William769]

126. ...

[greatauntoftriplets]

127. Oh yes! I don't watch either.

[Duckhunter935]

128. Good work MIRT

and to you sir to prove what a liar this poster was, thanks for the update.

[geek tragedy]

135. Doesn't that mean he should be automatically banned? the GWYM account

is still active, just suspended.

[William769]

136. Thast has to be done by the Admins.

We shall see.

[geek tragedy]

137. Nice work, sir, exposing a turd within a turd within

a homophobic, Putin-loving piece of shit.

[Adrahil]

45. I assume you mean fascist Russia? NT

[newthinking]

55. The new Pres is actually more moderate. The regime's partys did not win. So things may calm somewhat

Really, like what happened here after 9/11, people run for safety when they fear. The country just had a junta come to power with very extreme components. But in general people in Ukraine actually got along well in general before we and Europe interfered.

[karynnj]

129. You keep saying that, but exactly what was the regime's "party?

It was an interim government that was there to organize elections and keep things stable until a new President was elected. It was not a junta.

[newthinking]

130. Svoboda, Fatherland (Batkivshchyna), Right Sector, UDAR (supported Poroshenko)

Fatherland is the largest. Their candidate was Tymonshenko.

As I have said previously. despite the propaganda that tried to establish the contrary, anyone who knows ukraine understood that the group that came to power represented a minority block that has been unable to come to power through democratic means (since the one time they came to power via a vote where there was massive (underreported) disinfranchisement in the south and east). They lost the next election because they left the country in shambles and have never been able to achieve a majority.

[davidpdx]

115. Reading comprehension is key there spanky

I said they have the choice of trying to talk to the current administration and work things out or take the risk that the violent behavior (on both sides) turns into a civil war.

A separate country is not an option. A peaceful solution that keeps Ukraine together is an option.

[newthinking]

103. As long as violent extremists (Right Sector, Svoboda) are in places of high power it will continue

Seriously.... THINK.. how would you feel if a Neo-Nazi was head of Homeland Security in the US? That is one of the positions that a neo-nazi holds.
It remains to be seen if he can truly clean things up. But I am hoping.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. It's always nice to have a billionaire leading a nation into austerity.

Say hello to the IMF for us, oh Chocolate King.

[joshcryer]

7. The IMF couldn't leverage were it not for oligarch theft.

[Texas Elvis]

9. Speaking of billionaires I found something interesting the other day.

The US gave millions of dollars to fund the Kiev media last month. Guess who they gave a large portion to? The Kiev Post and guess how rich the owner of the Kiev Post already is? http://www.newsweek.com/mohammad-zahoor-oligarch-kiev-63573 He's worth billions yet we sent him millions to help his paper post lies. Try to put that one together. People here are homeless and starving and we just gave a billionaire millions more dollars.

[Duckhunter935]

12. Can you please link to where you found this out?

I am sure you can find it again

[dipsydoodle]

17. USAID Increases Support for Media and Press Freedom in Ukraine

WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) is providing an additional $1.25 million to the U-MEDIA program in Ukraine, a project of Internews and its Ukrainian partner organizations aimed at supporting Ukrainian media outlets as they prepare for the Ukrainian presidential election on May 25th. Members of the media in Ukraine have faced serious challenges and dangers over the past several months. More than 500 journalists have been harassed, beaten, abducted and one journalist killed, since November. Media outlets have been attacked and news-gathering equipment has been seized or destroyed.

“USAID supports a strong and independent media in Ukraine,” said Paige Alexander, Assistant Administrator for the Bureau for Europe and Eurasia (E&E). “This additional funding will help to protect vulnerable journalists while also advancing press freedoms and democratic governance in Ukraine.”

USAID supports respect for universal values around the world as central to its mission to end extreme poverty and promote resilient, democratic societies. The agency’s work is committed to increasing awareness, creating strong legal foundations for independent media and civil society, improving government responsiveness to constituents, and supporting platforms for free and open communications.

These new USAID funds will support activities such as:

>

>

http://www.usaid.gov/news-information/press-releases/may-2-2014-usaid-increases-support-media-and-press-freedom-ukraine

Presumably.

[polly7]

20. NED - supporting freedom around the world.

Ukraine:

http://www.ned.org/fa/where-we-work/eurasia/ukraine

For NED and American neocons, Yanukovych’s electoral legitimacy lasted only as long as he accepted European demands for new “trade agreements” and stern economic “reforms” required by the International Monetary Fund. When Yanukovych was negotiating those pacts, he won praise, but when he judged the price too high for Ukraine and opted for a more generous deal from Russia, he immediately became a target for “regime change.”

Last September, NED’s longtime president, Carl Gershman, took to the op-ed page of the neocon-flagship Washington Post to urge the U.S. government to push European “free trade” agreements on Ukraine and other former Soviet states and thus counter Moscow’s efforts to maintain close relations with those countries. The ultimate goal, according to Gershman, was isolating and possibly toppling Putin in Russia with Ukraine the key piece on this global chessboard.

“Ukraine is the biggest prize,” Gershman wrote. “The opportunities are considerable, and there are important ways Washington could help. The United States needs to engage with the governments and with civil society in Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova to ensure that the reform process underway not only promotes greater trade and development but also produces governments that are less corrupt and more accountable to their societies. An association agreement with the European Union should be seen not as an end in itself but as a starting point that makes possible deeper reforms and more genuine democracy.

“Russian democracy also can benefit from this process. Ukraine’s choice to join Europe will accelerate the demise of the ideology of Russian imperialism that Putin represents. … Russians, too, face a choice, and Putin may find himself on the losing end not just in the near abroad but within Russia itself.”

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/02/27/a-shadow-us-foreign-policy/

[dipsydoodle]

23. All at the expense of the Ukrainian people

[polly7]

26. Yes, unfortunately. nt.

[Texas Elvis]

36. Please do your own research.

I can't babysit you.

[Duckhunter935]

43. so you do not know how much the post got do you

that's OK I understand

I was able to find the link from the Google machine that directed me to Ron Paul's site (eyes still burning). Nothing in it about giving money to the Post but I am sure you have the inside information since you put it out as fact in your post.

[Duckhunter935]

28. How much is a large portion given to the The Kiev Post?

[Purveyor]

48. Interesting, indeed and might I add...I do appreciate your participation on this

topic. The commentary is pretty much pro-kiev around this joint and a different perspective is enlightening to those that seek all info.

I might warn you to wear your flamesuit but I think you know that already.

[Brother Buzz]

10. Free candy bars and chocolate ponies for everyone!

[Igel]

42. Akhmetov did a mitzvah last week.

Of course, he's a Russian-speaking Tatar, probably Orthodox, but let's not let that stand in the way of using the word.

On 5/11 there was the ruckus at the police station. That night there was a lot of hooliganism and banditry. (Most of the Russian words are redolent of Izvestiya socialist-speak or 19th century literature, sadly.) The next day wasn't much better. So Akhmetov, the country's richest person, got his metalworkers and miners to team up with police and do two things. (1) Get the DPR bandits off the street. (2) Get the non-DPR hooligans off the street.

Of course, the DPR is incensed because it hates Akhmetov. He doesn't support independence, nor does he want to give the coterie of fools in Donetsk millions of dollars in taxes. Their response is to declare businesses that do this kind of thing "enemies of the people" and to nationalize and liquidate the holdings, kidnapping the owner or whoever, stripping the office of equipment and destroying records. Because nothing helps the people like destroying the businesses that pay them, esp. when it's a few people saying how everything they do is for the people. After all the money's confiscated--literally, since they've been holding up banks and armored cars, even if the money is pension funds--they're sure to need a NEP.

Which explains why the people's mayor in Slavyansk wears Armani suits, drives a BMW with no plates or registration (the BMW dealership was raided and cleaned out last month by the DPR), and has a Mac iBook, even though last year his job was dressing up as Father Frost with the Snow Maiden for private functions. Nothing quite says "serious revolutionary" like Father Frost.

[polly7]

8. Well that's a surprise!

Different deal of the cards

“A revolution? No, it’s just a different deal of the cards,” said sociologist Volodymyr Ishchenko, deputy director of the Centre for Society Research in Kiev. A few weeks after Yanukovych’s removal, his frustration was clear: “This government defends the same values as the previous one: economic liberalism and getting rich. Not all rebellions are revolutions. It’s unlikely that the Maidan movement will lead to profound changes that will justify calling it a revolution. The most serious candidate in the presidential election on 25 May is Petro Poroshenko, the ‘chocolate king’ [because of the fortune he made in that industry], one of the richest men in the country.” Even as demonstrators were being shot in the Maidan (Independence Square), the centre of popular anger since 22 November, a bizarre handover of power was being brokered behind closed doors with the powerful businessmen who have now taken control of Ukraine.

Over the past 20 years, Ukraine has experienced a form of development referred to as oligarchic pluralism. Many businessmen who amassed huge fortunes buying up mines and factories privatised cheaply after the fall of the Soviet Union have gone into politics. Oil and gas traders have become ministers or heads of major institutions. Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a leading figure in the 2004 Orange Revolution who was held up in the West as a martyr when she was imprisoned in 2011, made a fortune in the gas industry. A revolving door has developed between business and politics. Some powerful businessmen have played a more discreet role by financing the campaigns of politicians whom they expect to represent their interests. This system, which became the accepted way of doing things under President Leonid Kuchma (1994-2005), assumes constant reconfiguration shaped by the competing interests of the powerful, and their alliances and feuds.

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/new-deal-same-players/

Ukraine and the Grand Chessboard

By Pepe Escobar
Source: Asia Times
April 24, 2014

Pay up or freeze to death

Ukraine is for all practical purposes broke. The Kremlin’s consistent position for the past three months has been to encourage the European Union to find a solution to Ukraine’s dire economic mess. Brussels did nothing. It was betting on regime change to the benefit of Germany’s heavyweight puppet Vladimir Klitschko, aka Klitsch The Boxer.

Regime change did happen, but orchestrated by the Khaganate of Nulands – a neo-con cell of the State Department and its assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs Victoria Nulands. And now the presidential option is between – what else – two US puppets, choco-billionaire Petro Poroshenko and “Saint Yulia” Timoshenko, Ukraine’s former prime minister, ex-convict and prospective president. The EU is left to pick up the (unpayable) bill. Enter the International Monetary Fund – via a nasty, upcoming “structural adjustment” that will send Ukrainians to a hellhole even grimmer than the one they are already familiar with.

http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/ukraine-and-the-grand-chessboard/

[OKNancy]

15. The title now reads: Poroshenko claims Ukraine presidency

if you want to edit

[joshcryer]

46. Nice, he already called for new parliamentary elections!

No wonder the fascist separatists created the New Russia party, they didn't want to be left out of a future Ukraine: http://ukrainianpolicy.com/welcome-to-new-russia/

[newthinking]

53. Good, though he will likely have to fight for it. The MPs claimed, and their courts approved, a 5

year term.

But he seems pretty capable.

You do realize that he wants to take the current regime out of power don't you? He obviously does not think they have been representative.

Essentially the people, heavily weighted on the West as participation was lower on the East, yet the most moderate candidate (that had a chance) was chosen. Seems that all the claims that the junta represented the people are falling left and right.

[joshcryer]

56. The temp government was just that.

It was never anything more. It had to exist otherwise the entire country turns into the chaos we see in Donbas.

The good thing is Right Sector is now marginalized and should lose half their seats if not more.

Great news!

[newthinking]

57. They should have had no seats. They were never in a parlimentary election. Imagine that?

??

[joshcryer]

58. Svoboda is their party.

[newthinking]

61. That was my understanding as well

I haven't been able to find out how many were brought in that were right sector members when they reallocated MP positions but given the executive positions it seems likey at least a few of the new "Svoboda" PMs may have been right sector.

[joshcryer]

66. Here the breakdown:

The two names in red are the nazis. Bad, but not as bad France or worse, Greece, who elected dudes in jail!

This is an incredible outcome.

[newthinking]

75. Unfortunately it is not a parlimentary election - #9 is Svoboda also - Lyashko #3!!!!! OMG

Lyashko has called for people sympathetic to Russia to be shot. Looks like that is where much of the fascist votes went.

Surely you must know this stuff? Why do you post it this way?? I hope that was a mistake..

[joshcryer]

77. Big deal.

We've had teabaggers say similar shitty crap. You exaggerate the support for the fascists.

[newthinking]

79. No, I recognize that they are a minority, which is exactly why the current government coallation was

not representative and was a problem.

[joshcryer]

81. Maidan protesters booed the interim vote.

You have to understand that svoboda got seats in the cabinet because the communists abstained and dozens of party of regions guys fled.

That is water under the bridge. It's also important to have those parliamentary elections. To act as if they were permanently in power is a joke.

[newthinking]

91. LOL, so that is quite a different story. So now the truth comes out that indeed Party of regions PMs

fled (in fear). Indeed they and their families had been threatened. So had the communist party, which had many of it's offices forcefully closed and burned.

I have seen pictures showing MPs voting not only in their own seat, but in empty seats next to them. Including Yats. And the assertion is that the pictures are from the vote to remove Yanukovich. I had not been able to verify as the videos in the press are focused on the speaker and you can't tell well from the angle how things happened.

I had not posted those here because i do double check and there is a lot of false info out there. but this seems to suggest that it may have been true.

either way, you just made the case that the vote was not really appropriate because several parties were not able t vote freely and folks were under duress.

[joshcryer]

96. They fled because they were criminals.

Illegally passing an anti-protest law drafted in Moscow. They probably would've all gone to jail.

The point is that's how those assholes got power. If the communists didn't abstain (they were present, they just didn't vote, on purpose; why they supported the oligarch, I dunno) it could've been different. There could've been communists in the cabinet instead, or at least a 50/50 split.

[newthinking]

97. There is that west is white, others are black meme again

You clearly have never been to Ukraine or Russia, or you are married into some extreme Nationalists who have distorted your view. Because corruption there was/is not "just" in the Presidency, it was endemic, in *every* part of government. Even the school teachers propagate "blot".

It has to do with their history. In the Soviet Union people were taught that everything belonged to everyone, including money. And they still have a lot of work to do to understand that is not the way things work in a just democracy, that everyone cannot just take what they want (or feel they need) just because they are in a position where they can do so.

Don't get me wrong, the people there have incredibly redeeming qualities in general.

[joshcryer]

109. All bloc states underwent extreme corruption.

It took a decade for many of them to root it out, it still exists on a high level, the closer in proximity you are to Russia. Corruption was complete and absolute in the Soviet Union.

Get away from Russia, adapt western style methods to root out corruption, and you begin to solve the problem. Move toward Russia and its oligarchs, you wind up making it worse.

[newthinking]

131. You sure do throw out unsupportable one sided views as "fact"

Seriously, I know this is emotional for some of us.

I checked the site (which is partisan by the way, again you use a partisan site, it would be better to go to the International Transparency site itself)

I can't find any mention of perception being higher in the east. In fact, that does not seem supportable that it would be somehow related to Russia (as you infer), since Russia is lower on the perception index than Ukraine?

[joshcryer]

133. The map can be read by anyone.

My statement is true. There are whole books dedicated to Russia and its culture of corruption.

[newthinking]

134. The map only shows countries. Is there another that shows regions or are you talking

out of your hat?

Maybe you would be interested in this:

Spurious correlations: Margarine linked to divorce?

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27537142

[newthinking]

59. Also, the current government has said a lot of things they have not followed through on. The Presid

The parliament removed the power of the president to change much of the executive leadership. So it remains to be seen if they will essentially stand down. I certainly expect that they will not be excited for a new Parliamentary election, because by then the marginalized parties may be back in some shape.

[joshcryer]

110. The question is whether the separatists allow the election.

Which is unlikely without getting rid of them or having some kind of dialog where they allow for it, which is unlikely.

[newthinking]

64. I see nothing there. You know that is a propaganda site don't you?

Mat Babiak does writes PR for Euromaidan and is one of the people who tried to push the false flag pictures of a "Russian soldier"

[joshcryer]

72. They are fascist terrorists...

[joshcryer]

76. No, the couple of hundred.

New Russia, Eurasia, Dugin, all fascist, Nazi tendencies. For real. Objectively.

[joshcryer]

85. The fascists drafted and illegally passed an anti-protest law.

Which caused Maidan to go violent to begin with. They were torturing, disappearing people, cutting off body parts and leaving them to die in the middle of winter in the middle of nowhere. Several pro-Maidan politicians were murdered, dropped in rivers.

[geek tragedy]

88. What is shameful are people so eager

to believe everything they read/hear from Russian state media. The level of hyperbole and bogus claims in your posts re: Ukraine would make Bibi Netanyahu blush were he to say them about Iran.

[OilemFirchen]

89. Pardon the machine translation:

вернуться домой марионетку.

[newthinking]

99. Extremists have arisen out of both sides with most of the population stuck in the middle. It is only

in the propaganda that one side or the other is the white hat. But in this case one group of extremists has a better deal and has been more successful at painting the other, all at the cost of the people themselves, who truly are the "white hats".

[joshcryer]

111. One side prevents an election from happening.

The other side has elections, open, transparent, and with international observers.

[Ash_F]

52. Why do 'tycoons' end up ruling countries?

Should be a public servant, no?

[newthinking]

54. Because the far right and religious extremists we support ultimately will not give away the farm

So eventually the real preference gets into place.

Oligarchical capitalism is now worldwide.

[Nye Bevan]

92. Did you vote for John Kerry (net worth $200 million) in 2004? (nt)

[newthinking]

100. I have, but I would never do so again.

[Ash_F]

108. I thought he married into it?

That doesn't count.

[brooklynite]

86. An election is held, and the losing candidate concedes...sounds like a conspiracy to me...

[newthinking]

101. I don't think anyone is claiming conspiracy. Innacurate... disinfranchised, maybe, is it the best

thing given the situation? Probably....

[Duckhunter935]

105. oh yes there are some here are doing just that

and the referendum held on the 11th was run perfectly and no problems could never have happened.

[dipsydoodle]

118. Ukraine Election Largely In-Line With International Commitments, Says OSCE

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, the main outside group monitoring Sunday's presidential election in Ukraine, is painting a generally positive picture of the vote in its initial report.

In a preliminary review issued Monday, the OSCE, which had 1,000 observers in Ukraine, described the election as "characterized by high turnout and the clear resolve of authorities to hold what was a genuine election largely in line with international commitments and with a respect for fundamental freedoms in the vast majority of the country."

The group did report problems in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions in eastern Ukraine, where pro-Russian separatists have seized government buildings and held referendums seeking to secede from Ukraine. The vote didn't proceed at all in Crimea, which has been annexed by Russia.

But the generally positive tone of the OSCE report bolsters assertions by Western leaders that the election could mark a milestone in efforts to resolve the crisis. Russian President Vladimir Putin has also said in recent days he would respect the results.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304811904579585583703352194?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304811904579585583703352194.html

[newthinking]

132. This will help - But it is important to understand even the OSCE has expressed some bias in their

analysis. Which has been surprising.

It has been surprising the extent to which old cold war feelings are still deep in our institutions. OSCE is a good organization, but as a rights organization they have not been completely neutral and have "overlooked" rights violations on numerous occasions while being extremely thorough on one side.