2 Ukrainian jet fighters shot down in rebel-held region
Source: USA Today
Two Ukrainian fighter jets were shot down Wednesday in the eastern regions of the country that are controlled by Russian-backed separatists, according to Ukraine's defense ministry.
Defense Ministry spokesman Oleksiy Dmitrashkovsky said the Sukhoi-25 fighters were downed in an area called Savur Mogila, according to the Associated Press and Reuters.
The spokesman said each jet could have been carrying up to two crew members each.
It was the first reported shootdown of a plane over eastern Ukraine since a Malaysia Airlines jet carrying 298 people went down last Thursday, killing everyone aboard. U.S. officials say the Flight MH 17 was apparently brought down by a surface-to-air missile.
Read more: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/23/ukraine-rebels-separatists-fighter-jet-shot-down/13034005/
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Anyone denying the fact is just plain lying.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and I have no recollection of anyone here denying it. Shoulder missiles are sufficient for that purpose.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)There was a video yesterday of them transporting them.
https://twitter.com/MiddleEast_BRK/status/491691639447228417
Ukraine got greedy, imho, thinking that since MH17 they had free air space over rebel territory. Not so fast. Rebels are desperate given that they are losing huge swaths of territory. They'll use every last bit of equipment Russia has spared.
Don't expect Buk's to be on the playing field though.
Going on 18 straight hours of watching these latest developments. Wow.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Igel
(35,191 posts)I forget the number. Motorized units, not MANPADs.
They acted like it was a big deal and it was new.
They announced the same thing in June. Can't reach the height of the Antonov that was knocked down, nor commercial flights at cruising altitudes.
Sounds like their "father Putin" took away the dangerous toys and left them with toys that they couldn't use to get into trouble. (That's an allusion to the Horlivka mayor's edict, made under DPR duress, that Russian flags be hung all over town with signs that read, "Russia's our mother, Putin's our father". Россия -- мать, Путин -- отец.)
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Igel
(35,191 posts)Yesterday it was reported that a column of 20 armored vehicles and 24 trucks with fighters/munitions crossed the border into Luhansk oblast.
Today one "activist" who's usually pretty good about his network of informants and amateur stringers said that was a false report, that no tech or fighters crossed the border from the night of 7/21 to 7/22. The situation down near the Marynivka crossing south of Shakhtarsk and Torez was too fluid to say much about--yesterday the rebels triumphantly claimed to have taken Kozhevnya and some other little farming village down there, thus opening the border, today they said that they were forced out by superior force and lost equipment.
This was the area where one Ukr unit said they'd come under real attack by Russian Grad fire yesterday. They said that today they came under "mock attack"--the Russian forces that had pulled up to 200 m from the Ukr border and faced the Ukr units just sat there yesterday, but today they staged a full frontal advance to within one or two dozen meters of the border and just stopped. I can imagine that triggered some phone calls ... and disrupted the lines facing the rebel forces.
No word on what happened with border crossings early morning 7/23. There was some fighting at the border in Luhansk yesterday and it may have made info collecting tough. Or perhaps silence = no crossing.
If true, and reflects a real change in Russian policy, it would be a big improvement. On the other hand, while people say that supplies crossed the border "every night" that was really shorthand for "just about every night."
Billy Budd
(310 posts)They funded Al-Qaeda, and now they blame the Muslim religion
Even though Bin Laden, was a CIA tactician
They gave him billions of dollars, and they funded his purpose
Fahrenheit 9/11, that's just scratching' the surface
"Bin Laden"
(feat. Mos Def)
LiberalLovinLug
(14,153 posts)He got the Crimea. Let the Ukraine keep the rest of their country.
And yeah, there is no doubt that without Putin's support, and especially if he would actually block arms to the rebels and denounce their actions, they would soon dry up.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)http://rt.com/news/175084-ukraine-fighter-jets-downed/
IDemo
(16,926 posts)Joe Isuzu, or Baghdad Bob? Oh, RT.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Two Ukrainian Su-25 shot down by missiles launched from Russia
Two Su-25 attack aircraft belonging to the Ukrainian anti-terrorist forces, according to initial reports, were shot down from outside the territory of Ukraine, spokesman of the info center of National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Andriy Lysenko has said.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/two-ukrainian-su-25-shot-down-by-missiles-launched-from-russia-357590.html
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)The reason I asked was to find out if a difference in altitude of 33,000 feet and 35,000 feet would mattered
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)difference for a SU-25 trying to reach it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system
The Aviationist says 39.400 feet, I don't know where that number comes from.
http://theaviationist.com/2014/07/20/inside-buk-telar-images/
This is borne out by the video footage obtained by the Rostov monitoring center. We would like to know why the Ukrainian plane was flying along a civilian route on the same flight path as the Malaysian Boeing, Kartapolov said.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741655
The manufacturer says the ceiling for the Su25 is 7km, but maybe it is possible to reach higher altitudes.
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)Make these psychos afraid to turn on their new toy.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Ukraine has not accused Russia of shooting down Ukrainian military planes in the military operation area in the eastern part of the country but only suggested it as one of the theories of the July 23 incident, Ukrainian National Security and Defense Council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/kyiv-denies-holding-russia-responsible-for-downing-two-su-25-warplanes-357802.html