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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:06 AM Jul 2014

Pope: World War I should teach us: No more war

Source: AP

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis is marking the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of World War I with an impassioned plea for people to "not repeat the mistakes of the past," urging them to embrace dialogue to overcome conflicts.

Francis cited current warfare between Israelis and Palestinians, as well as in Iraq and in Ukraine. He told pilgrims and tourists in St. Peter's Square Sunday that he was thinking of children — killed, maimed or orphaned by war — who "for toys, have the debris of war."

"I beg you, stop. I ask you with all my heart," Francis said.

He cited World War I-era Pope Benedict XV's denunciation of the Great War as a "useless massacre."


Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/pope-world-war-i-should-teach-us-no-more-war

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Pope: World War I should teach us: No more war (Original Post) n2doc Jul 2014 OP
"When will they ever learn"... Historic NY Jul 2014 #1
For you: Brigid Jul 2014 #15
Isn't it interesting that all-out nuclear warfare hasn't happened? Jerry442 Jul 2014 #2
There's no money..... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #20
I remember... ReRe Jul 2014 #3
Obiously their faith in God and Heaven isn't strong enough n/t n2doc Jul 2014 #4
Francis incites conflict using martial language, he has declared that fighting LGBT people is 'God's Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #7
That's right. ReRe Jul 2014 #8
When does the DU contingent leave for the warfront? No Vested Interest Jul 2014 #19
We're still dealing with the fallout, behind on learing the lessons Cresent City Kid Jul 2014 #5
He is so self serving, this man who calls himself Francis has often declared that opposition to LGBT Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #6
Ahem... ReRe Jul 2014 #9
Since the OP refuses to answer a question, I'll ask you one.... Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #10
In my view, those who offer sneering lectures but refuse to answer direct questions are Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #11
It's amazing how a few nice-sounding quotes (some out of context)... knowledgeispwr Jul 2014 #12
Excuse me? ReRe Jul 2014 #22
Because it is news that people might be interested in n2doc Jul 2014 #17
Wars to resolve conflicts aren't IMO as bad as wars to expand Empires. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #13
Political and religious leaders have a lot saidsimplesimon Jul 2014 #14
I think I'll pull out my "All Quiet on the Western Front" DVD today. Brigid Jul 2014 #16
Benedict XV also condemned the war (whereupon they called him the "Pape boche" MisterP Jul 2014 #18
It did teach the actual participants...... DeSwiss Jul 2014 #21
The only things learned from WW1 was not to do trench warfare any more and.... steve2470 Jul 2014 #23
Trench Warfare only occurred when the more powerful side decide NOT to attack. happyslug Jul 2014 #28
"When will they ever learn?" -- Pete Seeger. They never will. nt raccoon Jul 2014 #24
I recently heard the very best description of what it was like to be a soldier in WW1... Javaman Jul 2014 #25
I saw a movie once where WWIII was averted because the pope threatened to excommunicate CBGLuthier Jul 2014 #26
Catholicism should teach us: no more religion. truthisfreedom Jul 2014 #27
No Disrespect Here - But Isn't He A Little Bit Late With This?...... global1 Jul 2014 #29
If the Hundred Years War didn't teach us, nothing will tabasco Jul 2014 #30

Jerry442

(1,265 posts)
2. Isn't it interesting that all-out nuclear warfare hasn't happened?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 08:16 AM
Jul 2014

Could it be that the 1% realized that in a nuclear war there was no way they could sit safely back behind the the lines and reap profits like they have throughout history? That they would suffer a fate just as gruesome as the 99% do in wars?

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
3. I remember...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:02 AM
Jul 2014

... back when GWB was getting ready to invade Iraq, when millions of people were marching in protest all over the world (including myself.) I knew Pope John Paul was ill, and of course he was against the invasion too, but I wondered why he didn't fly to Iraq and put his body in harms way and say STOP! And I'll say the same thing now. Why do religious leaders not protest with their lives? If I was the Pope, I would go over there, take every one of the Cardinals and spread every one out all over the country. Not just the I/P war now, but in any war. Like Shadrack, Meshack and Abednigo walking into the fiery furnace, like Daniel walking into the lions den, like Jonah into the belly of the whale.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
7. Francis incites conflict using martial language, he has declared that fighting LGBT people is 'God's
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:28 AM
Jul 2014

war' and he urges his followers to fight that war. Calls for holy war on your neighbors. He is part of the cycle of violence, his Bishops in Uganda are calling for blood in the streets and elimination of all gay people.
Nice to see where you stand.

Cresent City Kid

(1,621 posts)
5. We're still dealing with the fallout, behind on learing the lessons
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:16 AM
Jul 2014

The world maps we learned in school, at least if you're old enough to have gone to school during the Cold War, were created at this time. People with centuries old ethnic conflicts were jammed into countries together with little regard for the ramifications.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
6. He is so self serving, this man who calls himself Francis has often declared that opposition to LGBT
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:22 AM
Jul 2014

rights is 'God's War, and we must fight it'. So why would a man who claims to use all of his being to oppose war indulge in words of war when urging his followers to attack LGBT rights?

The Hypocrite Pontiff urging Argentine Catholics to vote against equality-
"God told his people in a time of great anguish: ‘This war is not yours but God’s.’ May they succor, defend and join God in this war.”

So to the OP. Please consider the nature of the hate monger you are promoting here. The intense hypocrisy and self serving nature of this dishonest man.

Let me ask you OP, are you fighting what you think is God's fucking War? Do you think you and God are in a war against gay people? If not, why are you posting this?

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
9. Ahem...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:35 AM
Jul 2014

... where is it written that one has to espouse the content of a posted article? Just because he/she posted it, doesn't mean they are promoting anything.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
10. Since the OP refuses to answer a question, I'll ask you one....
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:57 AM
Jul 2014

What reasons would you accept for DU OP's glorifying a man who says he is at war against your household and wants his followers to fight it with him? Answer that.
 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
11. In my view, those who offer sneering lectures but refuse to answer direct questions are
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:13 AM
Jul 2014

displaying the exact sort of disrespect for others that allows raging bigots like Francis to hold sway. You were asked:
"What reasons would you accept for DU OP's glorifying a man who says he is at war against your household and wants his followers to fight it with him?"

Would you ever accept positive posts about some preacher who says your household is evil and God wants others to destroy it?

If you can not even answer that, you and the OP both need to consider what is gained in posting about a hate mongering bigot in a community filled with those hated by the bigot. Also consider what might be lost.

knowledgeispwr

(1,489 posts)
12. It's amazing how a few nice-sounding quotes (some out of context)...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jul 2014

and a few humble/populist but ultimately meaningless gestures by Pope Francis can lead to such adulation from some liberals and progressives.

Francis continues to support and run a highly misogynistic and homophobic organization with no evidence of change in policies which hurt and subjugate large swaths of humanity.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
22. Excuse me?
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 05:03 AM
Jul 2014

Did you get up on the wrong side of the bed or what? If you're looking for a fight, count me out. I'm not a fighter. Besides, I'm on your side! Forget about the Pope. Live your life as you wish. Really... life is way too short for you to be waiting around for the Catholic Church to suddenly change it's ways.
Get a grip, OK? Peace.

n2doc

(47,953 posts)
17. Because it is news that people might be interested in
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:00 PM
Jul 2014

And unlike you, I do not think that Francis is such a heinous person that he should never be spoken of. I can post things from people I don't agree with on all, or even most, points. And I will continue to do so.

If you are going to go around disparaging posts about "Hate Mongers", you are going to be a busy and lonely person.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
13. Wars to resolve conflicts aren't IMO as bad as wars to expand Empires.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 11:38 AM
Jul 2014

WW I was fought to settle disputes, while the Vietnam War was fought, as far as I can tell, to enrich the MIC. The Iraq War was fought because a small time dictator (Cheney) decided he could.

saidsimplesimon

(7,888 posts)
14. Political and religious leaders have a lot
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 12:15 PM
Jul 2014

in common. Representing a diverse group is no easy task. President Obama walks a tightrope in order to carry out his oath of office to serve the interests of all US citizens, not just those who supported and voted for him.

It's not likely someone of my humble station would ever be given a papal audience. Rest assured, even within the inner circles of religious organizations, there are those who regret the past, present and future exclusion of the lgbt community .

I'm in favor of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. We all have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, free from religious discrimination.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
18. Benedict XV also condemned the war (whereupon they called him the "Pape boche"
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:29 PM
Jul 2014

and kept him out of Versailles)

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
21. It did teach the actual participants......
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:32 PM
Jul 2014

....no more war, but they're all dead. And they didn't start the fight to begin with. But it reinforced the lesson that the TPTB had already learned.

- About how much money and power they might gain by having them.....

K&R

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
23. The only things learned from WW1 was not to do trench warfare any more and....
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 07:41 AM
Jul 2014

no more toxic gas warfare. Otherwise, nothing was learned by humanity.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
28. Trench Warfare only occurred when the more powerful side decide NOT to attack.
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 10:03 AM
Jul 2014

Germany was the stronger side in the West till 1918. The US entrance and Russian Exit changed the situation and you ended up with a much more mobile war. In France, since the Germans decided NOT to attack, the French and British came to think they were stronger and thus kept on attacking. The Germans would defeat every such attack by transferring troops from other fronts.

On the other hand, Germany saw it had greater opportunities elsewhere, first against Russia in Poland, then the Balkans and then the Ukraine. Germany concentrated its forces in these locations for they promised the greatest amount of victories for the least lives. When Russia fell out of WWI in 1917, Germany transferred most of its Troops that had been on the Russia Front to The Western Front and you had the Spring Offensive of 1918, where Germany advanced more in a couple of days, then either side had done in 4 years of fighting. The US Troops were essential to end that offensive and became increasingly import as the Allies turned to the attack, and Germany found itself starving and with a severe shortage of men to fill the ranks. It was this renewal of mobile warfare do to the weakness of Russia then Germany that saw the end of Trench Warfare during WWI.

A similar situation developed in Korea in 1951. After a year of see-sawing of both sides, the North Koreans taking most, but not all of South Korea, the US Counter attack that push North Korean Forces into China, and China blitzkrieg attack in the Winter of 1950-1951. The US decided they were fighting the wrong war with the wrong enemy at the wrong time and decided the 38th parallel was as good as border as any and decided that would be the defensive line the US would hold. If the US took North Korea, then the US would have to end further infiltration by going into Manchuria, which would require the US to go into China Proper, while Stalin was laughing in Moscow for such a situation benefited Russia the most. Thus the US drew the line at the 38th Parallel and the US ended up in two years of trench warfare again. Notice the reason was the same, the Stronger side decided it was NOT worth attacking and drew a line and defended it.

As to gas warfare, it appears to have been dying out by 1918, Gas was still used, but both sides had effective gas masks so the effectiveness of using gas was dropping. Gas is best used against people without masks, since WWI that has been mostly civilians.

Javaman

(62,442 posts)
25. I recently heard the very best description of what it was like to be a soldier in WW1...
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:59 AM
Jul 2014

go in your back yard and dig a hole, now dress in all wool clothes.

then fill that same hole half way with water.

now get in.

Then continue to spray that water on you for the next 4 years through the heat of summer and the bitter cold of winter.

This of course doesn't include: rolling drum artillery, dum dum bullets, gas attacks, 7 foot high fields of barbed wire, the constant thread of sniper fire or the stepping up to the line, waiting for the whistle to attack across no mans land.

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
26. I saw a movie once where WWIII was averted because the pope threatened to excommunicate
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 09:20 AM
Jul 2014

anyone that got involved in it.

Made me laugh so hard I nearly wet myself. How about he talks about what went on in Rome in the 30's and 40's when the church sat on their ass while the world burned.

global1

(25,168 posts)
29. No Disrespect Here - But Isn't He A Little Bit Late With This?......
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:45 AM
Jul 2014

Since WWI we've had WWII and countless other wars. It's time for World Peace I.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
30. If the Hundred Years War didn't teach us, nothing will
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 12:33 PM
Jul 2014

We are a murderous, depraved species - too stupid to prevent our own extinction.

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