Pakistan mob kills woman, girls, over 'blasphemous' Facebook post

[hue]

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A Pakistani mob killed a woman member of a religious sect and two of her granddaughters after a sect member was accused of posting blasphemous material on Facebook, police said Monday, the latest instance of growing violence against minorities.

The dead, including a seven-year-old girl and her baby sister, were Ahmadis, who consider themselves Muslim but believe in a prophet after Mohammed. A 1984 Pakistani law declared them non-Muslims and many Pakistanis consider them heretics.

Police said the late Sunday violence in the town of Gujranwala, 220 km (140 miles) southeast of the capital, Islamabad, started with an altercation between young men, one of whom was an Ahmadi accused of posting "objectionable material".

"Later, a crowd of 150 people came to the police station demanding the registration of a blasphemy case against the accused," said one police officer who declined to be identified.

"As police were negotiating with the crowd, another mob attacked and started burning the houses of Ahmadis."

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/28/us-pakistan-islam-murder-idUSKBN0FX0GF20140728

[cpwm17]

1. I guess the mob's faith is pretty weak if they can't tolerate different opinions n/t

[samsingh]

3. there is a deeper message here - some are applauded everytime

they kill someone and claim honor.

[samsingh]

2. i was just about to post this disgusting atrocity - where is the public outrage over

how minorities are treated in Pakistan?

[RVN VET]

4. Actually,

the mob's "faith" demands that they not tolerate different opinions. Islam's better practitioners live in the 21st century, but the masses of muslims (as shown by the barbarity of this mob of celebrants) still know only medieval ignorance and fear. They show their deity, a cruel and heartless entity, more child-devouring Saturn than merciful Allah, their devotion by destroying anything that can be construed as insulting to him. By barbarous acts in his name, they assure themselves that he will not crush them.

Christianity was just that way centuries ago, and vestiges of it traveled to the New World where it faded away over time -- in most places, and in most Christian hearts. Maybe because the Christian world managed to stumble on ways to enlighten and, most importantly, feed its people with food and aspirations for a better life on this side eternity.

[cpwm17]

5. In much of the world Muslims were able to get along with minority religions

That's why the ME has/had a diversity of religion, some existing there for a couple of thousand years. You can't say that about the West.

The recent rough history of the ME, much of it imposed on the ME from the West, is certainly threatening much of the diversity. Bad elements are causing a lot of problems. Crazies with guns seize power when natural order beaks down -- in some places more than others.

Pakistan seems to have a lot of backwards hillbilly types that don't tolerate diversity. Seems to be more about their particular culture than Islam in general.

[CanonRay]

8. Where, exactly, do Muslims get currently along with minority religions

That used to be the case in Lebanon, in Iraq, in Syria, but no longer. So where are minorities still accepted? I don't think there are more than a handful of Muslim countries that accept minorities. That part of the world seem hopelessly screwed up to me.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

25. It depends on which periods of Islam you're talking about

After the death of Muhammad Islam invaded and colonized north Africa where Christianity predominated and forced the local native population to convert or die. Then they turned their attention to Europe and colonized most of Spain and twice attempted to take France by the sword but failed.

[get the red out]

27. Yes, but that was because of the United States

No, wait!!!!

[heaven05]

6. religion

creates such violence and idiots to perpetrate it. Humans and religion=stupidity and murder. Those women did not deserve to die because of religion. I hate religion.

[FrodosPet]

16. It sucks, but all we can do is stand back and watch and hope they grow from within

Our condemnations are pure hypocrisy. We see the horrors perpetuated by other nations, other cultures, but we must remain silent. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

When America purifies itself, when we have at least a complete century of history when we can honestly say we are noble and perfect, then and only then can we condemn the actions of other peoples.

[heaven05]

18. Well I'm part of no war mongering

racist american religion. I condemn on principle. RELIGION SUCKS!!!!!! America will never purify itself. Too much blood on it's hands, both because of cultural stupidity and ignorance and international arrogance and imperialism. I will condemn the religionists who killed those women and nothing can stop me from voicing my disdain for the religion that created these murders.

[get the red out]

29. False equivalency

That's a stinky load of false equivalency you could put on your garden!

Has peaceful Pakistan never made war?

Cultures that murder like this are DISGUSTING. No lofty, snotty, better-than-though false equivalency can make that fact go away.

If you ask me, the human race needs "purification" but there are culturally entrenched atrocities that the world must speak out about for there to be any hope. And we have to get down to the root cause, shitty, ignorant, hateful cultures that need serious reformation.

[Nye Bevan]

26. I hate barbaric religions that preach fatwas and murder.

I don't hate all religions.

[get the red out]

28. That's me also

I agree.

[heaven05]

42. oh I just get so sick of humans

with this type of power and control over other humans. I like some Buddhist sects. Theravada beliefs are some beliefs that helped me deal with the challenges of being a soldier in s.e.asia. I recently got introduced to the Sikh religion and am studying. The Universalist Unitarian beliefs sound interesting, was talking to an adherent the other day at a local watering hole. Yeah, that fatwa stuff and RW christian rigidity verging on calling for murder against non believers is disturbing to me.

[Plucketeer]

7. Just one more example

of how STUPID religions are - period.

[Orsino]

9. Star-bellied sneetches.

This was a crowd that wanted blood. Religion as manifested here is a symptom, not a cause.

[Plucketeer]

19. So...........

You're saying that had not religion been a factor - this would've happened anyway? I mean - sure, this world is full of crime where no particular faiths are involved. But THIS particular incident would've happened as it did, regardless of the instigating factor? I don't see it like that.

[Orsino]

24. I think I'm saying...

...that if a religion calls for an insufficient number of blood sacrifices, those of the right mindset will convert to bloodier ones, or invent new ones to justify that particular lust. Arthur Miller didn't write The Crucible about hanging witches, and some of our televised sports seem to scratch the same itch. Not to mention some of our politics.

[Gore1FL]

22. It's an easy thing to rally people around.

It's effective for that. Whether a symptom or a cause, religion is an effective way to dehumanize.

[Arugula Latte]

40. Yep. Fucking religion. It's the scourge of the planet.

Killing over a particular brand of mythology -- how senseless.

[cosmicone]

10. I will not post anything here

Lest a coordinated group will get it hidden, true or not.

[tabasco]

12. How pathetic that you use this thread

to pout about something.

[Hugabear]

11. Kinda like how many Christian fundies consider Muslims to be heretics for believing in Mohammed

After all, Islam teaches that Mohammed was the last in a line of prophets that included Jesus, an idea that many Christian fundamentalists find absolutely intolerable.

[KurtNYC]

13. Couldn't they just "unfriend" them?

Or are the buttons there: "LIKE", "SHARE", and "FORM LYNCH MOB" ?

[uppityperson]

17. Black humor sometimes helps.

I appreciate black humor sometimes, thank you. Was wondering what she'd posted, too many farmville requests?

Back to reality, I do not understand people like them.

[Plucketeer]

21. I don't get it either

But then I THANK my lucky stars that I was never brainwashed and taught to strive for that "final reward". Cause if I had been, I might could see things their way.

I sorta wish we'd see some public stonings in this country (USA) so that we could see just how faithful folks are about the dictates of the Bible. T'would be interesting to see if onlookers chanted in support or intervened.

[freshwest]

41. The Tea Party uses those buttons, too. But they've only wanted to lynch Obama since 2008.

But seriously, this is what tribalism and theocracy looks like.

[dawn frenzy adams]

14. "Chauvinist Death Cults!"

That's how an African American historian once described the 3 religions.

[candelista]

15. These wahhabis have nuclear weapons.

Gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[The Green Manalishi]

20. h, yes, the "Religion of Peace".

[valerief]

23. Another day of fundie fun.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

30. "A 1984 Pakistani law declared them non-Muslims" (WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTO OF DEAD PERSON)

To me, that's the scariest part of this story. Everywhere in the world there seem to be groups of crazy people, mobs that get out of control. Americans cannot look down their noses too much, even to these lawless mobs in Pakistan. I think back to the Chinatown massacre of 1871 in Los Angeles where a mob of over 500 white men invaded Chinatown and robbed, raped, and murdered Chinese people on a street called "Nigger Alley" (excuse the "N" word in this instance please). Eighteen (18) Chinese people were murdered by hanging them from telegraph poles for merely being of a different race and religion, making this the largest mass lynching in U.S. history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871_%28Los_Angeles%29





However, an official decree or law of the Pakistani government has made the sect involved here outsiders to mainstream Pakistan, untermenschen that probably puts even more of a target on their backs. Why can't Pakistan let the religions in the territory they govern decide for themselves if they are Muslim or not? It would seem to me that our ally in this part of the world is a religious state and one that is not very enlightened.

[Bragi]

33. You should remove the truly awful photo you posted.

Or at least put a warning sign on your post. I get haunted by such pictures, and I'm older, and would like to have the option to not look at harsh images. I have enough already embedded in my memory.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

36. Sorry you had that reaction

I've seen far worse photos in my high school history book, including mangled corpses from Civil War battles and scenes of Nagasaki and aftermath. I remember the incident shown on national TV during Vietnam where Nguyễn Ngọc Loan, South Vietnam's chief of National Police shot a suspected Viet Cong right before our eyes. I think as adults and Americans we should be encouraged to see such things and not feel too comfortable about where our society comes from, the same way I think students should see films from the Nazi death camps.

[Bragi]

39. I agree with your points

And I thank you for adding a graphic image warning. That fully addresses my concern. I too have endured the shocking images you list, and don't advocate trying to ignore the horrors to be seen by an observant eye. But I've had my fill, so unless a graphic image is essential for understanding something, I'll take a pass. It's just a personal choice. So warnings are good. As are links.

[snagglepuss]

34. That is pointless whataboutry, particularly pointless given

the immense strides that have been made in the US and other non-Islamic countries since 1960s. What Islamic country hasn't gone backward in the last 50 years.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. The 1960s was practically yesterday

I remember marching as a young man in 1970 over the torture/murder of mentally retarded 16 year old Charles Oatman in jail in Georgia. The African American community rose up in protest and the police killed six of them. I find it outrageous that people forget the RECENT past and would point a self-satisfied finger at others and remark that they are so much more civilized. The Chinese Massacre of 1871 and the 1970 bloody response by the police (two among innumerable such incidents) prove that American society has the potential to be ugly. According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, as of present day 2014 there are 939 active hate groups in the United States, a 56 percent increase since 2000. Countries evolve at different times. While I deplore a lot of the backwardness and violence in Islam I would hope we would continue to urge them to enter the 21st century and not write off all of Islam. America has only recently become more enlightened on issues of race and women's and gay rights. But if you think there are no hate crimes in America, often by members of the many white supremacist groups in this nation, you really need to do a little research.

[snagglepuss]

37. The deplorable rracism that exists in non-Islamic countries is not state sanctioned.

These govts dont stone adulterers and homosexuals to death, they dont' hang apostates. Hell apotasy isn't even a crime. All this hass not been accomplished in the dark. Islamic countries and their imans have witnessed the progress that has been but they persist in their ignorant ways.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

38. I agree - that's a major difference

and that's what my original post tried to touch upon in referencing the fact a law was passed that contributed to the persecution of the Pakistani minority The fact the governments in these Islamic countries such as in Pakistan are accomplices to violence and perpetuate the ignorance and barbarism is a difference with the West.

[heaven05]

44. no???

then why are all these tea party and republican jerks being voted into the halls of power to pass laws that take away a woman's right to her own body and to limit minority voting? Laws come from the 'state' and usually these type of restrictive laws are transparently created and coveted by religious people. It's not just imans that spew vitriolic hate toward 'non believers'. Just look at your typical "christian' television preacher. I suggest that if it was possible, the burning of witches and stonings like described in the old testament would happen again with the wrong combination of leadership in Wash. D.C and on the state and local levels. Amerika is not that far removed from religious insanity in this day and age.

[snagglepuss]

46. Do any of the above asshats get to stone people to death?

[heaven05]

45. teach

+1000 and the 2004 dragging of a black man behind a truck until his body was torn apart in Texas is an example, to me, also of what you speak.

[snagglepuss]

47. Horrific but it is not state sanctioned.

[heaven05]

43. wow!

hadn't known of this. Reminds me of another part of amerikkka at that same time, late 1800's. wow. Amerikkka can never claim moral or religious superiority over any other culture or religion, ever. Even today in the 21st century

[longship]

31. Of course they do.

Islam countries hate women, always blame women, cover them in Burkhas, etc. Islam is the most misogynist ideology in the world.

For Christ sake -- so to speak -- a woman driving a car is illegal in Saidi Arabia! Hopefully they will not behead her for it.

[snooper2]

32. more uneducated stupid fundies