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JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:02 PM Aug 2014

Palestinians returning home find Israeli troops left faeces and venomous graffiti

Source: The Guardian, UK

When Ahmed Owedat returned to his home 18 days after Israeli soldiers took it over in the middle of the night, he was greeted with an overpowering stench.

He picked through the wreckage of his possessions thrown from upstairs windows to find that the departing troops had left a number of messages. One came from piles of faeces on his tiled floors and in wastepaper baskets, and a plastic water bottle filled with urine.

If that was not clear enough, the words "Fuck Hamas" had been carved into a concrete wall in the staircase. "Burn Gaza down" and "Good Arab = dead Arab" were engraved on a coffee table. The star of David was drawn in blue in a bedroom.

"I have scrubbed the floors three times today and three times yesterday," said Owedat, 52, as he surveyed the damage, which included four televisions, a fridge, a clock and several computers tossed out of windows, shredded curtains and slashed soft furnishings.

(MORE AT LINK)

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/palestinians-return-home-israeli-troops-faeces-graffiti?CMP=twt_gu




Some of the graffiti Ahmed Owedat found on returning to his home in the town of Burij. Photograph: Harriet Sherwood


It goes on. At a wrecked school, the occupying forces left the graffiti "You will be fucked here" and "Don't forget it's time for you to die."
63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Palestinians returning home find Israeli troops left faeces and venomous graffiti (Original Post) JackRiddler Aug 2014 OP
I don't believe this propaganda. nt Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #1
Some pictures here alsame Aug 2014 #2
You got me. No one other than an Israeli could have written that. Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #3
Wasn't trying to 'get you', only alsame Aug 2014 #7
Failing a DNA tgest and/or video and/or an admission Dreamer Tatum Aug 2014 #8
And why do you see this as propaganda? starroute Aug 2014 #37
The Best properganda has always been the truth happyslug Aug 2014 #47
I like the two photos of the 155 mm Howitzer shell, someone forgot to put in the fuse. happyslug Aug 2014 #48
Neither do they 4now Aug 2014 #6
They are just following their leaders example 4now Aug 2014 #4
Are we BDSing everyone that deserves it SnakeEyes Aug 2014 #52
Interesting leftynyc Aug 2014 #5
I agree cabot Aug 2014 #9
What a sad and odious dodge. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #12
Sigh leftynyc Aug 2014 #17
Dodging again. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #26
Must this spiral down to obnoxious attacks? George II Aug 2014 #46
I see no picture. n/t cpwm17 Aug 2014 #33
Do you see a link? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #41
"Unmitigated hate speech"? Example? George II Aug 2014 #45
Not really very suspicious. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #18
But WHY leftynyc Aug 2014 #20
Most Israelis do not speak Arabic, in fact. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #22
All the Israeli's I know leftynyc Aug 2014 #23
And none of the ones I know do. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #25
So of course it makes perfect sense leftynyc Aug 2014 #29
When both are likely to share English as a second language? Yep. Spider Jerusalem Aug 2014 #32
Perhaps English was the soldiers first language sorta like Mark Regev's is azurnoir Aug 2014 #34
This is just how far SnakeEyes Aug 2014 #53
Sigh - I could just as easily say leftynyc Aug 2014 #61
So? JackRiddler Aug 2014 #27
One day you'll stop lying about what people write leftynyc Aug 2014 #30
You immediately sought to blame the victims JackRiddler Aug 2014 #40
It is the usual response -- like the hideous demonic meme that a people would want themselves to be The Stranger Aug 2014 #42
"hideous demonic" lol SnakeEyes Aug 2014 #54
Some of here are actually old enough SnakeEyes Aug 2014 #55
Those of us old enough (and who see through the fog) remember who supported Hamas' founding long The Stranger Aug 2014 #63
WRONG leftynyc Aug 2014 #60
I was ready to dismiss this accusation as non-sense, but your post makes sense. DRoseDARs Aug 2014 #49
There is nothing you won't excuse or deny on this topic. Marrah_G Aug 2014 #38
+1000 I'm not convinced wordpix Aug 2014 #44
Sounds like the phony crap that was said when bush's people moved into the White House... George II Aug 2014 #10
More Hamas lies, and in English for mass consumption seveneyes Aug 2014 #11
Doesn't surprise me, IDF are scum. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2014 #13
are you calling the vast majority of Israelis "scumbags"? 0rganism Aug 2014 #58
It's not mandatory for Muslims and Christians. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2014 #59
I was wondering what the talking point would be... JackRiddler Aug 2014 #14
Up is down, black is white. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2014 #15
LOL @ the pathetic attempt at propaganda. MrNJ Aug 2014 #16
so it is not possible? MFM008 Aug 2014 #19
It's unbelievable and contradicts common sense and logic. MrNJ Aug 2014 #21
Quick! There's an asshole anti-Semite in Australia! JackRiddler Aug 2014 #28
does it really contradict common sense and logic? renegade000 Aug 2014 #31
So does shelling a UN school. ForgoTheConsequence Aug 2014 #36
You do know that American troops Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #39
this isn't anything unusual, check out Bourdain's show on israel west bank and gaza JI7 Aug 2014 #24
Same type of stuff was found after Operation Cast Lead-from Haaretz azurnoir Aug 2014 #35
It's self-defense feces! JoeyT Aug 2014 #43
You'd be surprised what people will do to avoid being shot at while also needing to take a dump. Calista241 Aug 2014 #50
Since time immemorial... JackRiddler Aug 2014 #51
"Hamas did it" Rapillion Aug 2014 #56
you should read whats written riverwalker Aug 2014 #57
Both sides are all screwed up. none of this will be solved in any of our lifetimes. WhoWoodaKnew Aug 2014 #62

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
3. You got me. No one other than an Israeli could have written that.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:10 PM
Aug 2014


And only Israelis shit and piss. I forgot about that.

alsame

(7,784 posts)
7. Wasn't trying to 'get you', only
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:23 PM
Aug 2014

pointing out that it could be true. But I see your mind is completely closed. Peace.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
37. And why do you see this as propaganda?
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:33 PM
Aug 2014

Troops in wartime have very rarely behaved as perfect gentlemen. It seems to me the default position would be to accept it as not only true but expectable.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
47. The Best properganda has always been the truth
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 08:22 PM
Aug 2014

But I see your definition of "Propaganda" is that it is lies, and that is often NOT the case. Among US Politicians the term "Spin" is often used for what the rest of the world calls "Propaganda" i.e. interpreting facts in the best light for your side.

Just a comment, just because something is Propaganda, does NOT mean it is not true. These messages are common in most such situations. US Troops have reported similar actions when they take over something, and such messages have been left by US troops when they leave an occupied building.

Thus I suspect these statements to be True, I also accept they are propaganda, but I also understand that the best propaganda is always the truth and some times the only information you are getting are the propaganda messages of both sides in a conflict. Thus you must dismiss both sides if you do not give any credit to propaganda and make a decision based on no information. even when you look at both sides, some of the truth is leaking out (often all of the truth, The firsts reports issued on the D-Day Invasion of June 6, 1944 was from the German Propaganda Ministry. The Allied Armed Forces were being quite, thus the first reports of the invasion were all from Germany AND these were repeated in the US for it was NEWS and was the TRUTH as while as being German Propaganda.

Just a comment on what propaganda is, and more often then not it is the truth. You may NOT like the spin on that truth, but such spin is the nature of effective propaganda, and the most effective propaganda is the truth.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
48. I like the two photos of the 155 mm Howitzer shell, someone forgot to put in the fuse.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 08:38 PM
Aug 2014

155 mm Howitzers shells consists of three parts, the bad changes, the round itself and the fuse. The Charges and the Round itself are stored together for use. The Fuse is stored in another location. The fuse cost anywhere from $100 to a Couple of hundred dollars, the Shell and Charges, maybe $20. The fuse sets off the round. Without a fuse the round will NOT explode, and thus why that round was found intact and later hauled away for they is nothing to go "bang" in them except under certain situations. Moder explosives are very stable unless ignited by a Charge from the Fuse.

The photos shows a 155 mm Round without a fuse, which should be screwed on the front of the round. No Fuse no bang. On the other hand, in the right hands, the round could be made deadly, it does NOT take much. Someone was in a hurry handled the round to the loader who loaded the round, the gunner close the breach behind the round and fired the round. If it was a one round mission, which I doubt, they waited for a blast and none came.

On the other hand, the Howitzer was set, the fire mission called for, someone forgot to screw in the fuse, but the round was picked up, probably as the person in charge of setting the fuse was doing so on another round, given to the loader, who loaded the round then the charges, yelled "I see Red" and gunner closed the breech and fired the round. Then the gunner opened the breech, and a round with a fuse was loaded and fired. No one even noticed that the first round did not go off.

The phase "I See Red" is what 155 gunners say after the last charge in loaded, the base charge is always RED for it is the charge the igniting system is design to burn first. Thus the 155 mm has to have that red charge showing when the breech is closed, thus the saying "I See Red" meaning the Round is loaded AND the charge is loaded correctly.

What I have forgotten about 155 howitzers is immense, I was in a 105 mm Artillery unit, but I was trained on 155 mm howitzers in basic but only as a side line. The 155 does NOT use a brass cartridge, as the 105 mm round did. The 155 mm also used "charges" not the "Bags" used by 105 mm (Through both were called "Charges&quot . Thus my knowledge of 155 mm howitzers are limited, but that is clearly a 155 mm round AND it does NOT have a fuse, that is clear, for the same fuse was usable on the 155 mm round, the 105 mm round and the 4.2 inch Mortar rounds, going through the Howitzers and Mortars I fired when I was in the National Guard.

4now

(1,596 posts)
4. They are just following their leaders example
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:14 PM
Aug 2014

This is just completely disgusting.
How we could support this is beyond me.
Its a good time to remember to:
Boycott, Divest, and Sanction Israel.
http://www.bdsmovement.net/

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
5. Interesting
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:15 PM
Aug 2014

that the message is in English and not in Arabic or Hebrew. And by interesting I mean suspicious.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
12. What a sad and odious dodge.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:02 PM
Aug 2014

You expect us to believe an outfit that uses unmitigated hate speech in justifying the murder of children playing ball on a beach and the bombing of UN flight centers cares too much for public image to produce such mean graffiti? Tell me, did the family in the story also destroy their own house and throw their own computers out the windows?

This behavior fits the conduct of the Israeli offensive in Gaza and the extreme anti-Arab and anti-Muslim public discourse that has justified it, some of which we have seen on DU.

Not every Israeli speaks Arabic and not every Palestinian reads Hebrew, but English is a language that will send the message to the recipients. Here is a famous pictures of Israeli children encouraged to write hate messages in English, in much the same spirit as the IDF showed in Gaza, back during the assault on Lebanon.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
17. Sigh
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:29 PM
Aug 2014

I don't give a shit what you believe. So your claim is it's more likely for both the Israeli soldiers who you claim did this and the Palestinians who saw it both speak better english than both Arabic or Hebrew? I suppose that would make sense to you.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
26. Dodging again.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:53 PM
Aug 2014

I said nothing about which language is likely to be used. You're dodging.

I do say that English as a commonly shared language is possible, and not suspicious in itself.

More importantly, I showed (as if this was necessary) that in the past, Israelis have written (in fact, children have been encouraged to write by the elders) hate messages against Arabs IN ENGLISH while others photographed the event.

(Denial is apparently also a river in NYC among people who designate themselves as lefties.)

George II

(67,782 posts)
46. Must this spiral down to obnoxious attacks?
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 08:01 PM
Aug 2014

"Denial is apparently also a river in NYC among people who designate themselves as lefties"

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
41. Do you see a link?
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 06:55 PM
Aug 2014

Copy this, delete the space I inserted, that should show you the picture.

http://sabbah.biz/ mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642682_2fea4cce66_o.jpg

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
18. Not really very suspicious.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:37 PM
Aug 2014

A significant number of Jewish Israelis speak English. (English is taught in Israeli schools; per Wikipedia, 84% of the Israeli population speak English.)

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
22. Most Israelis do not speak Arabic, in fact.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:45 PM
Aug 2014

They do speak English. (And a Palestinan Arab who doesn't speak Hebrew may speak and read English. Which is an international lingua franca.)

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
23. All the Israeli's I know
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:47 PM
Aug 2014

(granted, a few dozen but still) speak Arabic and certainly the military. They watch Al Jazeera to see how things are being reported.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
25. And none of the ones I know do.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:49 PM
Aug 2014

More to the point, data on languages spoken in Israel gives 18% of the population as Arabic-speakers. So clearly your circle of personal acquaintance is not representative. (The plural of "anecdote" is not "data".)

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
29. So of course it makes perfect sense
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:59 PM
Aug 2014

to you that a person who speaks Hebrew writes a note in English to someone who speaks Arabic - makes perfect sense.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
32. When both are likely to share English as a second language? Yep.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:03 PM
Aug 2014

Just as it makes perfect sense to me that someone who speaks Dutch and someone who speaks Italian might converse in English if neither speaks the other's mother tongue. (English is also a spoken by many Palestinians, and the region was a British mandate under the League of Nations and UN, have you forgotten that?)

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
34. Perhaps English was the soldiers first language sorta like Mark Regev's is
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:21 PM
Aug 2014

after all wasn't at least one of the slain soldiers an American who made aliyah? Do you think he is the only one?

Note for those that do not know Mark Regev is an Australian who made aliyah, his name was Mark Freiberg

SnakeEyes

(1,407 posts)
53. This is just how far
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:33 PM
Aug 2014

they will rationalize so the what they want to believe against Israel is true in their mind

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
61. Sigh - I could just as easily say
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 05:47 AM
Aug 2014

anything hamas says is lapped up as gospel truth by so many here. Because they're such a reliable source.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
27. So?
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:57 PM
Aug 2014

Last edited Thu Aug 7, 2014, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Are they capable of writing "Good Arab = Dead Arab" in English?

Here's a story about people shattered by a month of bombs and shooting, returning to their ruined house, only to find soldiers took shits all over it and threw their computers and other stuff out the windows, as well as wrote hateful graffiti. And apparently your immediate instinct is to blame the victims. Because it's unthinkable that cohorts of the bombers and shooters of the children playing soccer on a beach could have written such vile things on a table?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
30. One day you'll stop lying about what people write
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:00 PM
Aug 2014

I've never blamed the victimes - the Palestinian people - I've only ever blamed hamas. That you can't distinguish between the two is entirely your problem.

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
42. It is the usual response -- like the hideous demonic meme that a people would want themselves to be
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 07:00 PM
Aug 2014

bombed, or that they would use each other as shields.

But it's not working any more.

SnakeEyes

(1,407 posts)
54. "hideous demonic" lol
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:34 PM
Aug 2014

Keep denying it tho and trying SO very hard to aggressively attack the fact. But far too many know the reality of Hamas and their actions.

SnakeEyes

(1,407 posts)
55. Some of here are actually old enough
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:42 PM
Aug 2014

to know these conflicts are nothing knew, only the figureheads change and so do side facts. We know who Hamas and those before them are. If Israel had the ground presence they used to use we'd see them putting children out in front of their weapons throwing rocks... again

Hamas hopes a school, hospital, or innocent is hit when they or Israel fires a rocket. Israel does not unless that hospital or school is being used by Hamas.

The Stranger

(11,297 posts)
63. Those of us old enough (and who see through the fog) remember who supported Hamas' founding long
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:47 PM
Aug 2014

before it was anything, and supported Hamas as a COUNTERWEIGHT to Fatah.

And Hamas' longest supporter was (wait for it) . . .

Israel.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
60. WRONG
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 05:38 AM
Aug 2014

I immediately said it was interesting and suspicious the message is in English. Then I blamed hamas. Why do you continue to lie? Or perhaps just show everyone here where I blamed the Palestinian people and not hamas. Go ahead and prove your charge.

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
49. I was ready to dismiss this accusation as non-sense, but your post makes sense.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:38 PM
Aug 2014

So it probably ISN'T poorly executed propaganda but rather more Israeli "self-defense" on display. Super.

George II

(67,782 posts)
10. Sounds like the phony crap that was said when bush's people moved into the White House...
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 03:49 PM
Aug 2014

...after Clinton - all the vandalism that turned out to be a gross exaggeration and mostly false.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
13. Doesn't surprise me, IDF are scum.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:02 PM
Aug 2014

You have to be a scumbag to join in the first place. If you kill children, shitting and vandalism are nothing.

It also doesn't surprise me that people on here are already denying what doesn't support their delicate narrative.

0rganism

(23,967 posts)
58. are you calling the vast majority of Israelis "scumbags"?
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:41 AM
Aug 2014

> You have to be a scumbag to join in the first place

That's an odd verdict, considering IDF service is mandatory for Israelis over 18. Would you like to clarify that statement?

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
14. I was wondering what the talking point would be...
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:04 PM
Aug 2014

Since, of course, this can't be defended. (It's easier to murder people and then call that self-defense than it is to say this is anything other than hatred being expressed.)

Now we know: Lies! All lies! Those people returned to their destroyed homes, shit and rubble everywhere, saw their stuff intentionally wrecked by the occupying force, and started scratching hate messages into the one still intact table.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
15. Up is down, black is white.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:10 PM
Aug 2014

Apparently the only media to believe is the American corporate media which is 100 percent pro Israel 100 percent of the time.

Remember, this is the same media that helped lie us into Iraq.


Amazing, isn't it? It's all one big pro Palestinian conspiracy now apparently. Haha.

MrNJ

(200 posts)
21. It's unbelievable and contradicts common sense and logic.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:43 PM
Aug 2014

But anything is possible, however I will need some proof before I get outraged.

renegade000

(2,301 posts)
31. does it really contradict common sense and logic?
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:02 PM
Aug 2014

I mean, there are pretty extreme bigots on both sides of this conflict, all it takes are a small handful of them to make their mark. If there are violent bigots on both sides willing to murder innocent teenagers for kicks (which helped spark this entire conflagration off in the first place), instances of unsavory graffiti are pretty mundane in comparison.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
39. You do know that American troops
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 05:54 PM
Aug 2014

were photographing themselves urinating on bodies of dead enemies, crapping on korans, forcing naked captives to act like dogs, and so on. Are you suggesting that Israeli troopers are so superior morally to American troopers, that the possibility of them even committing petty vandalism is 'unbelievable and contradicts common sense and logic'?

JI7

(89,262 posts)
24. this isn't anything unusual, check out Bourdain's show on israel west bank and gaza
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 04:49 PM
Aug 2014

there is a scene which shows some anti arab stuff written on some wall.

even if this specific thing may be fake it's not an unusual thing to happen there.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
43. It's self-defense feces!
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 07:13 PM
Aug 2014

Don't you think Israel has a right to defend itself, by slaughtering innocents, shitting on floors, and spraypainting furniture and walls, if that's what it takes?

Only an anti-semite would think an Israeli shouldn't shit on someone's floor.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
50. You'd be surprised what people will do to avoid being shot at while also needing to take a dump.
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:09 PM
Aug 2014

Since time immemorial, soldier and warriors have taken dumps and pissed in cramped spaces during battle.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
51. Since time immemorial...
Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:16 PM
Aug 2014

it is also true, is it not, that armies invading and occupying subjugated peoples have subjected such peoples to extremes of violence, cruelty, humiliation and denial of humanity. No? That's sure what this case sounds like - the gratuitous destruction of the family's computers and scrawling of threatening hate graffiti say as much.

And if they'd wanted to avoid being shot at while shitting, all they had to do was to stay home and not start the war in the first place. If war is even the word for a collective punishment initiated and carried out by an overwhelming force against a largely helpless, occupied population.

riverwalker

(8,694 posts)
57. you should read whats written
Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:16 AM
Aug 2014

in twitter replies to the photos of dead and wounded children. The most disgusting you can imagine, about dead children! Most originating from Israel. It makes you understand how such a slaughter could happen.

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