President Obama on Journalist's Killing: 'No Just God Would Stand For What They Did'

[cal04]

Source: NBC News

President Barack Obama said Wednesday that “the entire world is appalled” by the beheading of James Foley, an American journalist, by the Islamist militant group ISIS.

He said that he had spoken to Foley’s parents and told them that “we are all heartbroken.”

ISIS released a gruesome video documenting the beheading, and it threatened the life of a second American journalist, Steven Sotloff, if the United States does not stop the airstrikes it has carried out against ISIS since Aug. 8.

(snip)
Using a different acronym for the militant group, Obama said: “ISIS speaks for no religion. Their victims are overwhelmingly Muslim, and no faith teaches people to massacre innocents. No just God would stand for what they did yesterday and what they do every single day.”

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/james-foley/obama-journalists-killing-no-just-god-would-stand-what-they-n185076

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(snip)

"They may claim out of expediency they are at war with the United States or the West. The fact is they terrorize their neighbors and offer them nothing but endless slavery to their empty vision. The collapse of any definition of civilized behavior," he continued. " People like this ultimately fail. They fail because futures are won by those who build, not destroy, shaped by people like Jim Foley and overwhelming majority of humanity are appalled by those who killed him."

Obama also pledged that the United States would "do what is necessary to see that justice is done."

"There has to be a common effort to extract this cancer so it does not spread. There has to be a clear rejection of the kind of a nihilistic ideologies. One thing we can all agree on is group like (ISIS) has no place in the 21st century," he said. "Friends and allies around the world, we share a common security a set of values opposite of what we saw yesterday. We will continue to confront this hateful terrorism and replace it with a sense of hope and stability."

"That is what Jim Foley stood for."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/obama-isis-james-foley

[AngryAmish]

1. Since there is no gods humans are responsible for this

[Phlem]

2. Exactly.

using "religion" as an excuse. Ahh, the power of religion.

[newthinking]

3. And ultimately; we need to learn that you cannot defeat religious fundamentalism with violence

There is a reason that more and more extremist sects are growing out of the last 50 years. The more the western world turns on the heat and tries to use war measures to eliminate these groups the more radical the general population becomes.

We are in a cycle of violence.

We need to get the primitive thinkers out of our cabinets and get thoughtful strategists into place before we destroy any semblance of the progress we have made in the last 100 years.

[Psephos]

14. Do you have any evidence-based solutions to offer?

I hear a lot of opinions such as yours, and am sympathetic to the desire to not become that which we oppose, but I think it's immoral to not vanquish true evil when confronted by it.

As for modern times being more violent than former times, I recommend reading more history.

My view, supported by science, is that we all contain violent capacities, and that civilization and effective rule of law are what keep them in check. My guess is the answers lie in that direction.

No amount of education, conciliatory talk, or moral equivalency can alter our genes. We are not responsible for what we feel, but we are responsible for what we do.

So, I'm asking you sincerely for some new thinking here. No retreads that haven't shown to work reliably.

[newthinking]

15. Only my own experience including a (mistaken) stint in a fundamentalist religion

I know how fundamentalism works well having seen it first hand. I never really "fit in" at the time, but it was a very valuable education.

Using force against fundamentalism is counterproductive, because it actually enhances the power of leadership over their "flock". All the major religions emphasize that they will be "persecuted" for their beliefs. When force is appled to a fundamentalist sect, most "believers" become hardened and more determined. In addition, by using weapons of force that also cause destruction on the more moderate around them, like bombing a country to try to kill off a minority threat, that actually also drives people into the arms of fundamentalists.

I understand a lot about this from how it works, but I am not well versed enough to give you sources. But I do know that this phenomenon is well studied.

(Opinion and generalization warning)
The best way to "deradicalize" most people is to give them peace and stability, and the best way to counter fundamentalist ideology is to show them that the alternative works much better. That is why fundamentalism has much more difficulty gaining hold in places of peace and low in authoritarianism, while it tends to increase in areas that are not stable.

Of course there are other ways we could be much more effective. For instance, much of the growth of modern fundamentalist islam came about from **our dollars**. If President Carter had been successful in moving the country away from oil imports Wahabism, which in a large part grew out of tithes from Oil riches, would not have grown to the extent it has.

If I might add: Containment is what Sadaam Husein was all about correct? His country was an example of it. I don't think we all want to be living in such a place?

[Amonester]

26. Problem is, these extremists want to win the contest of who's the biggest badass on Earth...

And they want to win it quick, murder thousands for refusing to convert, or for any other made-up reason.

I can understand the governments of the "so-called" civilized world not wanting to stay on the sidelines and just watch their massacres continue without trying something.

It's only human, which these fucks have shown nothing in common with...

[Psephos]

29. I appreciate a considered response.

It sounds like your firsthand experience with fundamentalism was truly educational.

Many of the theorists behind Iraq War II actually espoused what you said about de-radicalizing extremists by showing them that a better, more peaceful and stable life was possible. Who knows, maybe even a few of those neocons believed it.

But it's beside the point. The problem is that the murders and genocide are happening now.

There are structures in civilization that keep violence in check. Radical fundamentalism is only one of a number of disruptive forces that can unleash the worst in humankind. Attempting to methodically address the discontent and rootlessness that drives people to extremist religions takes years or decades.

These guys are burying people alive today. Hacking off people's heads and photographing their smiling children holding up the heads today. Threatening to blow up major dams today.

I don't know if the US has much it can do effectively, or if other people elsewhere are better disposed to act. The UN is a joke. NATO has no real business in the Middle East. Opportunist nations of the region circle like vultures.

Recent history shows the US is incapable of bringing peace in the Middle East through conventional war. Recent history also shows that doing nothing except wringing hands and watching on the internet means thousands of people will die horrible deaths.

So, doing nothing doesn't work. Doing the wrong thing doesn't work. That leaves doing the right thing as the only option.

So, figuring out the right thing to do is where the debate should be. Evidence-based decision-making, not political opinion. Otherwise, the head-hackers justly believe that they are destined to prevail while cowards look the other way and have political debates instead.

[olddad56]

20. I believe in a power greater than us humans, call it what you want, call it God if you want..

call it whatever you want,or deny it, but we are not here by accident. That being said, this wasn't caused by God, this was caused by humans. The god of my understanding doesn't govern people's will. People do wrong or right, good or bad, based either on their own free will or the rules of some stupid religion that has not made spiritual sense for thousands of years. People once believed the world was flat, so that shows me that people will believe whatever they are told to believe, especially if they are not educated enough to decide and choose what they want to believe. Just look at the people in this country who believe what they are taught to believe by religious leaders and political leaders. These people, by enlarge, don't have control of their own mind.

[Iamthetruth]

24. Okay

Than lets let the humans from America kill all the humans in Isis. I'm all for that.

[ballyhoo]

4. "No Just God"? I just don't get that...So

if God is not just, nothing will happen to the perps?

[HoosierCowboy]

5. Time to turn...

...the USAF loose against ISIS and turn it into spare parts.

[GeorgeGist]

7. Just like Vietnam ...

eh, Cowboy?

[HoosierCowboy]

13. ISIS...

...is just a rapist street gang loose in the desert. They have no resource base, they are just a swarm of locust consuming everything in their path. They cannot govern or provide services.
..and they are surrounded by hostile forces on all sides.
..and they have one big disadvantage, they can't hide among the population, because wherever they go, the population flees.

All that's happening now is they are squaring themselves up to be completely cut off.

Yah...Bombs away

[flamingdem]

8. There are tens of thousands of them in Syria

and the US can't go in there..

[elias49]

25. I heard estimates of 15,000

Sorry I don't remember who it was but I know that at the time I has confidence in the individual who made that claim. (So what, right? I know...just saying)

[GeorgeGist]

6. There is no just God.

[onecent]

11. you are correct. IF there was a just God, this shouldn't happen but

I am not going to get into religion right now, or I will get a jury trial. lol

[valerief]

9. Oy vey, while our Congress starves US children. What god does that? nt

[Rhinodawg]

12. Oy vey is right.

+ 1000

[Dems to Win]

10. The Abrahamic god is not a 'Just God' - just ask Lot's wife

Lot offered his daughters to a mob to be raped, and God thought that was peachy-keen. Lot's wife looked back, and got turned into a pillar of salt. Nope, not a just God in this story.

I wish President Obama would lose the God-talk. Since I have such a dim view of the Christian/Muslim/Jewish god, I find it all pretty off-putting.

[swilton]

17. Off-putting?

I find it patronizing-insulting...how stupid does he think we are....

[J_J_]

22. +1000000

n/t

[Arugula Latte]

28. Yahweh is a dick.

The world would have been infinitely better off if the Big Three desert-originated paternalistic monotheisms had never been made up by humans.

[RussBLib]

16. I take this to suggest that Obama is an atheist

A "just" God would not allow this kind of thing. But since this kind of thing happens, a lot, either God is not "just" or there is no God. Since so many claim that God is a "just" God, they are wrong.

If there was a God and if "he" was "just" he would not allow this.

If there was a God and he was not "just" what good would he be?

The simple answer is there is no God. We're on our own, people.

[Amonester]

27. You don't get it, he was talking about THEIR god...

Although, HIS dog is supposed to be kind of the same deity, but I agree it's confusing, and that's why I don't believe in any such fairy tale, AND I'm not POTUS either nor ever want to become one lol

[blkmusclmachine]

18. Religion destroys a working mind, Mr. Prez. Mass suicide of 909 persons @ Jonestown religious center

[blkmusclmachine]

19. http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130625111106/scars-of-the-past/images/f/f4/Jonestown_Bodies.jpg

[J_J_]

21. And his point is? Because America is not God

It states very specifically in the bible that God will judge.

He did not ask America to carry out what they believe is his wishes.

In fact, God might be a little mad about all the lies, and the mindless killing of countless Iraqis...by America!


Was Obama this upset about Ferguson?

Because it is Obama's job to uphold the constitution in this country.

[Arugula Latte]

30. If there really was a powerful deity, why would it be mad about anything?

Shouldn't it be able to control things to its liking?

Plus, the Bible was only made up by humans 2,000 years ago. The universe is billions of years old.

It's pathetic we as a society still put any creedence into a book of obviously fictional stories from a primitive people. Why not just go by stories of Zeus or Thor?

[J_J_]

23. The entire world was appalled at the theft of millions of homes,then bankers getting a $$ bailout

I sure wish Obama felt the same about Americans that had their homes stolen in fraudulent foreclosures

"do what is necessary to see that justice is done."