Merkel calls for bilateral ceasefire between Ukraine and Russia

[reorg]

Source: Deutsche Welle

On her first visit to Ukraine since the crisis between Ukraine and Russia began early this year, Merkel called on Saturday for Moscow to engage in a peace plan with Kyiv. She said success was not possible if only one side was interested in a diplomatic solution.

"There must be two sides to be successful. You cannot achieve peace on your own. I hope the talks with Russia will lead to success," said the German Chancellor.

"The plans are on the table...now actions must follow," said Merkel, adding that peace is possible in Ukraine but that a ceasefire, agreed with both sides, would be necessary.

Merkel, who has been spearheading efforts to resolve the crisis in Ukraine, said the lack of controls along the Ukraine-Russia border was the main obstacle standing in the way of a ceasefire between Ukraine forces and pro-Russian separatists.

Read more: http://www.dw.de/merkel-calls-for-bilateral-ceasefire-between-ukraine-and-russia/a-17873455

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Deutsche Welle getting into a bit of a jumble with their wording, but the message is clear: Merkel demands ceasefire from Ukraine and that Russia be included in talks about "decentralization".

[The Magistrate]

1. And Here Is Her View Of The Chief Obstacle, Sir

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/23/us-ukraine-crisis-aid-convoy-idUSKBN0GM0IS20140823

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday the standoff over Ukraine could be solved but only if control was tightened over the Ukraine-Russia border across which, the West alleges, Russia has been funnelling arms to help a separatist rebellion.

She said the main obstacle was the lack of controls along the nearly 2,000 km (1,300 mile) border. She proposed a deal between Kiev and Moscow on monitoring of the frontier by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE).

"Now we need a two-sided ceasefire linked to a clear controlling of the Russian-Ukrainian border, otherwise peace won’t be achieved," Merkel said.

Diplomats say Merkel came to Kiev with two objectives: primarily to show support for Kiev but also to urge Poroshenko to be open to peace proposals when he meets Putin next week in the Belarus capital, Minsk.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

6. Actually, I think the wording is correct.

The problem here is that Putin is not going to let go of his excellent imperialist adventure, and the reality is that Ukraine can't stop him, much as they'd like. Obama is entirely correct that they don't make anything and that their importance on the world stage is minimal, but if you're a small, poor country on their border you can't really expect to do much more than fight them to a standstill, even with the help of the West. That means having to negotiate some sort of way to live with Putin for the duration of the twenty years or so until the next time Russia collapses from its own backwardness and refusal to advance itself, which appears to be some sort of weird bug in their actual culture. That's not usually the kind of judgment I pass, but Argentina is a country I ignore except to make fun of it for that reason, and it appears Russia is going to be the 2nd on this very short list. Anyone with brains or the means gets out of there, and the unfortunate souls left behind get to have their lives run by people who are even more criminal and stupid than the usual run of politicians in a normal country, which is saying something. Russia is too big to ignore even if its actions are risible, which they are, except for the fact they cause so much bloodshed for their neighbors.
Anyway, Ukraine wants to be part of the EU and of NATO, but the latter is completely off the table, and the former is going to be a long haul, and won't happen at all without getting Putin off their back. The only way to do that is to throw him and the mangy dogs around him some sort of bone to chew on.

[The Magistrate]

7. I Have No Quarrel, Sir, With Either The Position Or The Policy Laid Out There

There cannot be a cease-fire without real control of the border, and an end to delivery of heavy weapons and recruits from Russia to the secessionists.

If there is a cease-fire, a degree of federalization, with more local control over local matters and revenues, not only could but ought to be negotiated.

What cannot be allowed is Russian conquest under guise of 'secession', in the eastern portions of Ukraine.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

8. I don't know if that can be disallowed.

In a weird way, the "humanitarian convoy" farce may have been Putin's way of signaling that he may be giving up on that, though. The trucks were seen to have gone to a factory or two or three, all of which made military parts, and to have gone back with either machines from those factories or the parts from them, or both. That sounds like he's trying to salvage what he can of the arms making capability Ukraine has that he may no longer have access to if he concedes and withdraws. We shall see.

[The Magistrate]

9. You May Well Be Right About The Convoy's Significance, Sir

It could prove to have been a swan-song....

[amandabeech]

10. WP: Russian trucks leave but Ukraine says they’re taking military parts with them

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-escalates-tensions-with-aid-convoy-reported-firing-of-artillery-inside-ukraine/2014/08/23/dbb76290-2a96-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

KIEV, Ukraine — A convoy of Russian aid trucks that had entered Ukraine without permission returned to Russia on Saturday, but Ukrainian officials continued to express alarm, saying that Russians had loaded sophisticated military equipment onto the vehicles before they left.

Col. Andriy Lysenko, Ukraine’s military spokesman, said that trucks that had driven into the territory “under the guise of humanitarian convoys” had crossed back into Russia on Saturday morning after being packed with Ukrainian-made equipment used to produce an advanced aircraft-tracking system, as well as ammunition for small arms.


If the Russians are carting off Ukrainian made military equipment and the working parts of factories that make them, then Angela Merkel's job will be that much more difficult. If this factory is owned by Ukrainian oligarchs, they're going to be pretty darned pissed that the Russians carried off their means of production, and they're going to want it back. They may be just as important to settling as Poroshenko.

Merkel is obviously trying, but when two parties want to fight, sometimes they just have to slug it out. This may be one of those times.

[Demeter]

2. Angela, when you aren't sure who the victim of a con is

you are the victim.

[Igel]

11. I agree.

Russia wants peace ... a Russian peace. (Which, oddly, is homophonous with Russian world ... chisto po-russki. A standard pun.)

But if it can drag things out long enough, it's still hoping that the weaker, inferior nation will realize it's mistake and if not repent at least be crippled and hobbled. If they're repaying humiliation, humiliation is the coin of the realm.

It--with is to say, Putin and his "paleocons"--may not want annexation. The way that Transnistria has 30% of the population yanking around the other 70% is acceptable, provided that it screws over other uppity inferior races that refuse to submit to the Great Russians. (Which, sadly, appears to be a pun, or perhaps sarcasm, but given the requests from russists to have the "great Russian state" intervene in one way or another has to be interpreted straightforwardly. There's no whiff of any intent for it to be taken otherwise, however darkly comic the appeals are. They believe or want us to believe they believe Russia is great and glorious, even in partitioning Poland in WWII, the treatment of ethnic minorities and its own population, and the GULags ... because they were important and feared and believed themselves powerful. Irredentism and yearning for empire. And, sadly, there are DUers who fall for that con and consider it "enlightenment".)

[jakeXT]

3. Well, if Biden can propose federalism for Iraq

Another approach that is emerging is a “functioning federalism” under the Iraqi constitution, which would ensure equitable revenue-sharing for all provinces and establish locally rooted security structures, such as a national guard, to protect the population in cities and towns and deny space for ISIL while protecting Iraq’s territorial integrity. The United States would be prepared to offer training and other forms of assistance under our Strategic Framework Agreement to help such a model succeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/vice-president-biden-iraqis-can-rout-isil-by-rising-above-differences/2014/08/22/0dcfdc06-2a12-11e4-958c-268a320a60ce_story.html

[Igel]

12. Russia can show how it's done.

That's what a lot of protesters are being punished for now, censorship's being imposed, and so forth: Mentioning the idea of federalism in Russia. Strictly a no-no.

Hey, the Russian PTBs were fine killing hundreds of thousands to stop Chechen independent. Federalism is viewed as a way towards independence.

Heck, Russia doesn't want independence for independent states.

It's just russist hypocrisy.

[reorg]

14. Exactly. Given that this is what the people in east Ukraine wanted

in the first place and overwhelmingly voted for in the referendum, I don't think they would object. According to reports, it was also "Putin's Plan" early on.

Even "locally rooted security structures" may be a good idea, given the experiences with "national guardsmen" who fired into the crowd to prevent people from participating in the referendum in Krasnoarmeisk on the 11th of May 2014.

Mercenary Battalion "Dnipro" is blocking the referendum in Krasnoarmiisk, 11th of May 2014. Ukraine

Ukraine. Fire on civilians in Krasnoarmeysk. 05/11/2014

[newthinking]

17. The prospect of peaceful resolution is so difficult for some to

take when they had their sights set on war.

[cosmicone]

4. Angela needs Russian gas

Ukraine's territorial integrity is a small price to pay for making sure German factories and homes are not cold this winter and machines keep running.

Especially true since Germany is dismantling all nuclear power structures.

[reorg]

15. and German industry wants to keep doing business in Russia

The German association for industry and trade, the Deutsche Industrie- und Handelskammertag (DIHK) has alreday pointed out that sanctions can be bypassed, "water always finds its way".

Nobody in Germany wants conflict with Russia, the leading media's full frontal propaganda assault notwithstanding.

A critical look at the latter by Eckart Spoo, longtime editor of the liberal daily newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau and editor of bi-weekly Ossietzky (he is also a peace activist since the early eighties):

With English subtitles

[pinto]

5. Someone of influence in the EU needs to step up. Yeah, it starts with a ceasefire.

[Igel]

13. It would have been nice.

Perhaps a ceasefire could have been arranged in 1942 in Europe. While the fronts were frozen, perhaps the Jews, Roma, and gays at the time could have been entirely exterminated. And Germany rebuilt and restocked, ready for an even harder, nastier fight that would have wiped out whole cities.

Or maybe in 1863 in the US. Then we could have slavery in the South as they discussed, interminably, with skirmishes along the way, a "transition" to something else.

The results of all these ceasefires are Gazas and West Banks, Transnistrias and S. Ossetias, they're the Indo-Pak LOC. They freeze conflicts and allow people to rearm and play kick the can, making people suffer for years in limbo until there's another war. Somebody benefits--and it's not the countries involved.

Sometimes the surest path to peace is winning or losing. But the fight and the truth about what is actually happening must be admitted. Then it can be admitted--we are letting Russia trample on another country in order to recreate a pseudo-empire, and are fine with sacrificing others for our peace (didn't they try that once before, back in the 1930s ... Let's hear it for 'peace in our time'! Huzzah!) or we can figure out if there needs to be a war and it's merely wimpishness that's facilitating one side's intervention. Some bully's you fight and it's a mess, but in the end apart from a bit of blood nobody's much worse of than you'd have been otherwise; others you just have to stand up to and then the bully just stops. Having stood up with both results in my time, it's not always easy to spot the difference. Both provide a kind of dignity, however. For those who've never done it or are ideologically opposed to it, the difference simply doesn't make sense. They, typically, asked for help and relied on others for protection. Or hold opinions about something they have no direct experience with.

[newthinking]

16. You sound deeply dissapointed that war may not continue?

[CJCRANE]

18. Germans know what it's like to fight a huge war. They know propaganda

when they see it. And they see it coming from the MSM and western leaders.

There is no appetite to fight more wars for the neocons.