Ukraine crisis: PM Yatsenyuk to seek Nato membership
Source: BBC
Ukraine's prime minister has said he will ask parliament to put the country on a path towards Nato membership.
Arseny Yatsenyuk said the government was sending a bill to MPs urging that Ukraine's non-bloc status be cancelled.
The remarks come as Nato holds an emergency meeting to discuss the crisis in eastern Ukraine.
The West has stepped up its accusations of direct Russian involvement in the conflict following advances by pro-Russian rebels.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28978699
Understandable. When Russia invades your country, you are likely to want a way of stopping it happening again.
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Turbineguy
(37,317 posts)says NATO
KoKo
(84,711 posts)
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Not members.
truth2power
(8,219 posts)
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)"Then NATO will have to get involved in our fascistic 'anti-terrorism operation.' We could really use the help, cause we're getting our butts kicked by the Separatists right now. Thanks so much." (signed, 'Ukraine')
What a wonderful offer! How, oh how could NATO refuse?
pampango
(24,692 posts)the road. (Of course, Putin may decide that a 'rump-Ukraine' is as dangerous as a whole-Ukraine. A Ukraine absorbed by Russia will definitely not join NATO.)
NATO was designed for collective security against the possibility of a Soviet invasion. It worked in that sense. Pre-Putin it seemed to have become an anachronism. His angst over the collapse of the USSR and his actions to bring back the past, may make NATO relevant again. Ukraine's prime minister seems to think so.
VanGoghRocks
(621 posts)Slavic languages, that would be a 'rump border.'
Translation: Lviv.
7962
(11,841 posts)
bemildred
(90,061 posts)LAKE SELIGER, Russia, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin said Kiev's operation in eastern Ukraine where government forces are fighting pro-Russian separatists around the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk is reminiscent of the World War Two Nazi siege of Leningrad.
"Small villages and large cities surrounded by the Ukrainian army which is directly hitting residential areas with the aim of destroying the infrastructure... It sadly reminds me the events of the Second World War, when German fascist... occupants surrounded our cities," Putin told a youth camp outside Moscow. (Reporting by Alexei Anishchuk, Writing by Thomas Grove; Editing by Christian Lowe)
http://www.trust.org/item/20140829104607-a6hw4/
The Magistrate
(95,244 posts)I am prepared to do the man the courtesy of believing he knows he is talking poisonous drivel when he says that, but it is still grotesque distortion, on a par with calling a birth-control clinic a headquarters for genocide....
bemildred
(90,061 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Aug 29 (Reuters) - European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger told Reuters on Friday he expects the trilateral talks between Russia and Ukraine, brokered by the EU, to resume by mid-September.
Oettinger has been in Moscow where he met Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak.
Russia stopped supplying Ukraine with gas in June after the former Soviet republics failed to agree on gas price and debt. Around half of Russian gas exports to Europe flow via Ukraine. (Reporting by Denis Pinchuk; writing by Vladimir Soldatkin; Editing by Polina Devitt)
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/ukraine-crisis-gas-talks-idUSL5N0QZ2RJ20140829?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=bondsNews&rpc=401
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Russia is open to talks on resuming gas supplies to Ukraine and willing to offer a price cut of nearly 20 percent, Energy Minister Alexander Novak said on Friday, but the discounted price is still above the level Kiev demands.
Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed late last year to cut the gas price for Ukraine to $268.50 per 1,000 cubic metres after then-Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich said he would drop a planned trade agreement with the European Union in favour of joining a Russian-led Customs Union.
But Yanukovich was toppled by mass protests in February, and Moscow hiked the price to $485, which was rejected by Kiev. Russia cut off the gas flow in mid-June after the two sides failed to agree on pricing and debts owed for previous gas supplies.
Novak said after meeting European Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger in Moscow that Russia was ready to apply a retroactive discount of $100 per 1,000 cubic metres for April-June. Ukraine has insisted on returning to the old price of $268.50, while signalling it might agree to pay just above $300.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/29/ukraine-crisis-gas-talks-idUKL5N0QZ29O20140829?rpc=401&feedType=RSS&feedName=governmentFilingsNews
bemildred
(90,061 posts)(MOSCOW) - Russia's energy minister Alexander Novak warned Friday of a high risk of disruptions to Russian gas supplies to Europe this winter as international tensions over Ukraine mounted.
"The situation is extremely critical as the heating season approaches," Novak said at a joint press conference with the EU's Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger.
"There is a high risk that gas delivered by Gazprom for Europe will be illegally taken by Ukraine for its own use," he warned.
Russia in mid-June cut its deliveries for Ukraine after a pro-Western government took power and disputes over prices led to what Novak said was the accumulation of a debt of $5.3 billion.
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/ukraine-russia-gas.xit
bemildred
(90,061 posts)PanARMENIAN.Net - Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk urged the International Monetary Fund on Friday, Aug 29, to release the next tranche of a $17 billion loan and bemoaned the heavy cost of fighting a pro-Russian rebellion in the east, Reuters reported.
Ukraine has complied with conditions for the two-year aid package, which is intended to shore up depleted foreign currency reserves and support the state budget, but the country faces risks due to the eastern conflict, the IMF has said.
Ukrainian troops and pro-Russian fighters have been fighting since April in the heavily industrialized regions of Donetsk and Luhansk, which together contributed nearly 17 percent of Ukrainian gross domestic product in 2013.
"The (revenue) that we haven't been receiving from Donetsk and Luhansk is miniscule compared with the billions we are spending on war," Yatseniuk said at a government meeting.
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/182010/
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The International Monetary Fund agreed to disburse $1.4 billion to Ukraine under a loan program whose success is threatened by the intensifying conflict against separatists tied to Russia.
The money released today will bring total disbursements under the arrangement to about $4.51 billion, the fund said in an e-mailed statement after completing the first review of the deal. A fuller statement will be issued later today, it said.
The Washington-based fund four months ago approved a $17 billion loan to aid an economy battered by deadly anti-government street protests, Russia’s annexation of Crimea and a pro-Russian insurgency in the nation’s eastern industrial heartland. The conflict has intensified since, and both the IMF and the government see the economy contracting more than the 5 percent forecast earlier this year.
“If the situation were to be exacerbated, the program would need to be significantly re-calibrated, including potentially financing,” IMF spokesman Gerry Rice said in a press briefing yesterday. “The degree of uncertainty continues to be very large.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-29/ukraine-gets-1-4-billion-from-imf-as-fighting-intensifies.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)KIEV, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Ten Ukrainian soldiers have been killed and 30 wounded in fighting with pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine in the past 24 hours, Kiev's security and defence council said on Friday.
Fighting between government forces and rebels has intensified since separatist advances opened a new front in the conflict this week just as Ukraine's army appeared to have gained the upper hand by virtually encircling the separatists in their main strongholds of Donetsk and Luhansk.
A senior United Nations human rights official said on Friday that a total of 2,593 people have died in fighting in eastern Ukraine since mid-April. (Reporting by Pavel Polityuk; Editing by Mark Heinrich)
http://www.trust.org/item/20140829110710-zwot4/
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW—Russia’s President Vladimir Putin on Friday called on pro-Russian separatists to release Ukrainian soldiers who have been surrounded by the rebels in eastern Ukraine.
Putin’s statement came several hours after Ukraine accused Russia of entering its territory with tanks, artillery and troops, and Western powers accused Moscow of lying about its role and dangerously escalating the conflict.
NATO said at least 1,000 Russian troops are in Ukraine and later released what it said were satellite photos of Russian self-propelled artillery units moving last week.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov dismissed the accusations of an invasion in a televised news conference on Friday, saying that Moscow “has not been presented with any facts” proving that it had happened.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/08/29/putin_calls_on_separatists_to_release_ukrainian_soldiers.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Russian President Vladimir Putin for the first time on Friday publicly addressed pro-Russian rebels fighting in southeastern Ukraine, praising their "major success" inside Ukraine.
The Kremlin released a late-night statement from Putin on its website in which he appealed to the militia of "Novorossyia," or "New Russia."
It's a term he has used before to describe the regions in eastern Ukraine where fighting has raged for months — a term that describes the area north of the Black Sea that was conquered by Russia in the late 18th century through peace treaties with the Cossack Hetmanate and the Ottoman Empire. In 1922, the area became part of the Soviet Union. The term is mostly used now by Russian nationalists who wish for Russia to reconquer the area.
"It is clear the militia has achieved a major success in intercepting Kiev’s military operation, which represents a grave danger to the population of Donbass and which has already led to the loss of many lives among peaceful residents," Putin said in his statement to the militia.
http://www.businessinsider.com/putin-addresses-pro-russia-rebels-in-ukraine-2014-8
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)Rubbing their noses in it.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)smile he gave in that picture. Still, I think it's a done deal which can be accomplished in a few different ways. What I don't understand is why the US began the IS entanglement in Syria at this time, which gave Putin more freedom of movement. I think Poroshenko is approximately out now. Great job of supplying links. I got PM's with even more links first thing this morning.
The Magistrate
(95,244 posts)Hard to see any other meaning that "What I don't understand is why the US began the IS entanglement in Syria at this time" could convey....
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I just go through my news feeds and pick items I think are indicative, there are usually lots of articles about any particular story. I try to pick "credible" sources, usually.
Some days there is nothing, some days there is a lot. I'm not pushing an agenda particularly, though I have a point of view. Today there was a lot about Ukraine. Some days it's all old stuff that's already been chewed over.
The US in not in control and not of one mind either. I don't think IS is particularly relevant to this move in Ukraine, it doesn't hurt, but it's not important either. The fact that Russian cooperation is needed in various other problems does give Putin more freedom of action. But mostly what matters is that Ukraine is right next door with a long porus border with Russia.
Poroshenko gambled he could control the East before Winter, so as to be in a stronger negotiating position with Russia, he has lost that bet. "The West" will have to decide what to do. It's going to cost them to continue playing. Or that's how I see it, anyway.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)President Vladimir Putin said that Ukraine must be forced into negotiations to end five months of bloody battles between pro-Russian insurgents and the army, whose assaults on cities he compared to Nazi Germany’s tactics.
“The Ukrainian authorities must be forced to begin substantive talks,” Putin said today at Lake Seliger in Russia’s Tver region. “There has to be a substantive -- diplomats like using this word -- understanding of what rights the people of Donbas, Luhansk, the whole of the nation’s southeast will have.”
Putin said the Ukrainian military’s attempt to retake separatist-held areas of the country by force reminds him of World War II when Nazi troops besieged and bombed cities including his hometown of St. Petersburg.
The government in Kiev was joined yesterday by the U.S. and Europe in accusing Russia of escalating the five-month conflict in Ukraine by sending troops over the border to support a counter offensive by the separatists. The U.S. and the European Union threatened Putin with further sanctions. Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said today that his nation may seek NATO membership as a result of the latest military deployments.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-29/putin-says-ukraine-must-be-forced-into-talks-to-stem-conflict.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Lessening its dependency on the US dollar in an era when the West is imposing sanctions on Moscow in response to the ongoing Ukraine crisis, Gazprom Neft, the oil arm of Russian gas monopoly Gazprom, said it has agreed to accept rubles and the Chinese yuan for crude oil deliveries.
For exports from the Novoportovskoye field in the Arctic, the company said it would accept the Russian currency, while China could use its own currency for oil delivered from the Eastern Siberia-Pacific Ocean pipeline (ESPO), the Russian business daily Kommersant reported on August 27.
The Russian government and several of the country’s largest exporters have widely discussed the possibility of accepting payments in rubles for oil exports.
Two weeks ago, Russia began to ship oil from the Novoportovskoye field to Europe by sea. Two oil tankers are expected to arrive in Europe in September. According to Kommersant, the payment for these shipments will be received in rubles.
http://www.neurope.eu/article/russia-snubs-dollar-welcomes-rubles-yuan-oil
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The head of the CSTO says its peacekeepers are ready for any operations, including in Ukraine, but their deployment requires the go-ahead from leaders of all member-countries.
"Deployment of the CSTO peacekeeping force can be ordered only by the Collective Security Council – the supreme body formed with heads of state of the member countries. By a joint decision these leaders can order the use of peacekeepers both on the territory of the member-states and also outside their borders,” General-Secretary of the Collective Security Treaty Organization Nikolay Bordyuzha, stated on Friday.
“The CSTO peacekeeping force was formed several years ago and its units have already completed the training in combat cooperation. The servicemen in these units are well trained and equipped with all necessary weapons and hardware,” Bordyuzha noted.
http://rt.com/politics/183644-russia-csto-peacekeepers-ukraine/
KoKo
(84,711 posts)There have been reports that some Ukrainian fighters feel they were conscripted and don't want to fight against the Separatists because of their loyalties to Russia. So, I guess this would help them.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Putin is making a move, but it's not clear what.
In his interview/speech he mentions the Arctic too.
The basic message seems to be he's not backing off.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)The conflict in eastern Ukraine has killed nearly 2,600 people since mid-April, the United Nations said today in their latest report, explaining the sharp increase by fighting in densely populated areas between Kiev's army and pro-Russian rebels.
"At least 2,593 people have been killed in Ukraine between mid-April and 27 August 2014," the report said, noting human rights violations like abductions and torture are "committed primarily by the armed groups" fighting the Ukrainian army.
http://www.outlookindia.com/news/article/Conflict-in-Eastern-Ukraine-has-Killed-Nearly-2600-People-UN/857602
bemildred
(90,061 posts)An average 36 people are dying every day as the conflict continues to rage in eastern Ukraine, with both Government forces and rebels being accused of targeting civilians in a violation of international law.
The death toll has reached at least 2,593 people, including civilians killed in Government assaults on separatist-held areas, according to the United Nations.
A report issued by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) on Friday documented the deaths of people trapped in besieged cities and abuses including torture and abduction on both sides.
It came after the release of Nato satellite images appearing to show Russian troops and tanks in eastern Ukraine and Vladimir Putin’s comparison of the Kiev Government’s military operation to the Nazis.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-crisis-death-toll-tops-2500-as-un-report-finds-civilians-targeted-by-government-and-rebel-forces-9699442.html
bemildred
(90,061 posts)SELIGER, Tver region - Russian President Vladimir Putin has said that an agreement has been reached with Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko about the handover of Russian airborne troops held in Ukraine.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/poroshenko-says-strayed-russian-paratroopers-will-be-repatriated-putin-362570.html
Busy day.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Thanks for the links...!
bemildred
(90,061 posts)If you collect all the current babble in one place it's easier to see patterns.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Ian Bremmer from the Eurasia Group's comments on Ukraine are interesting. He also reports for Bloomberg Business so is credible. The photo at the site is priceless...the look Putin gives Poroshenko at that meeting in Minsk this week. Putin escalated ground efforts right after that meeting.
---------------
BREMMER: Putin Has Now Cornered Ukraine And Its President
Brett LoGiurato Aug. 28, 2014, 9:07 AM
Ukraine's government is in a perilous position after advances by Russian troops into southeastern regions in the country, and it's likely the country will have to accept a cease-fire that hands over large swaths of territory to pro-Russian separatists.
Geopolitical expert Ian Bremmer, the president of Eurasia Group, told Business Insider in an email that Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is now backed into a corner. And Bremmer said Poroshenko would most likely seek a quick cease-fire solution to prevent his country's economy from completely collapsing.
"The Ukrainian government has been in an impossible position, they gambled, and they've lost," Bremmer said. "Poroshenko now needs a cease-fire so that he can try to restart negotiations, the terms of which will effectively mean freezing the conflict and ceding significant pieces of Ukrainian territory to the separatists. That's politically perilous for him and risks counterdemonstrations against his government in Kiev. All the while his economy will be falling apart, with very limited support from the West.
"But there's no other way out."
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-russia-at-war-invasion-2014-8
bemildred
(90,061 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)and that the ATO was a folly. I had hopes after Poroshenko came in that they would work things out, but no such luck.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)So, there's that. The people on the ground are more aware than we are here (so far away) and they make their judgements based on their local experience.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Elmergantry
(884 posts)As they have learned the bitter lesson of unilateral disarment in exchange for worthless promises.
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)The fireball in this video is about thirty miles in diameter . . .
Elmergantry
(884 posts)by other countries. imagine that!
MattSh
(3,714 posts)sounds like a blast.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)bemildred
(90,061 posts)NOVOAZOVSK, Ukraine (AP) -- Pro-Russia separatists, relaxed and well-equipped, held firm control on Friday of the strategic coastal town of Novoazovsk, a day after Ukraine claimed tanks and armored vehicles had invaded from Russia.
Associated Press reporters saw at least a half-dozen tanks in the town of about 12,000 people, bearing the flags of Novorossiya, the would-be state proclaimed by rebels in two eastern Ukraine regions. None of the tanks bore Russian markings, but ready-made meals seen near one of the tanks carried markings that they were issued by the Russian army.
"There is no Russian equipment coming through here. We are fighting with the machinery the (Ukrainian forces) abandon. They just dump it and flee," said a rebel commander who identified himself only by the nom-de-guerre Frantsuz (The Frenchman).
Although such claims of using only confiscated Ukrainian equipment are common, top rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko himself has said Russia was supplying equipment and fighters. And Russia's consistent rejection of the allegations is hotly dismissed by the West.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-08-29-09-24-14
bemildred
(90,061 posts)BRUSSELS - Nato chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said Ukraine is free to pursue membership of the Western alliance despite Russian opposition.
He told press in Brussels on Friday (29 August): “I’m not going to interfere in political discussions in Ukraine. But let me remind you of Nato’s decision at the Bucharest summit in 2008, according to which Ukraine ‘will become a member of Nato,’ provided of course, Ukraine so wishes and fulfills the necessary criteria”.
“We adhere to the principle that each and every country has the right to decide [its foreign and security policy] for itself without interference from the outside”.
Rasmussen spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors with Ukraine’s envoy to the Western bloc.
http://euobserver.com/defence/125399
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)1. The West never wanted to be involved in this.
2. Putin has been so brazen that we had no choice but to pursue sanctions to avoid looking weak.
3. The sanctions haven't deterred him, so we look weak anyway.
4. Some NATO countries don't even want the sanctions to continue, let alone to go beyond them, because of the impact on their economies.
5. Meanwhile, the member states most under threat from Russia (e.g., the Baltics and Poland) are seeking much more assertive measures, including military buildup on their territories.
6. The US does not want to be distracted from the threat of ISIS, which is chaotic but far more resourceful than al Qaeda at this point, but can't ignore naked aggression from Russia.
7. Ukraine did not appear interested in NATO membership until it was clear they needed it, which is a pretty poor basis for a relationship.
8. Giving them NATO membership would drastically increase the obligations of the states mentioned in point #4, far beyond the mild economic sacrifices they're already chafing under. At best it would certainly mean a radical intensification of sanctions, possibly to full embargo. It could fracture the alliance and possibly lead some states under minimal direct danger from Russia to abandon it.
9. Giving Ukraine NATO membership could also, in legal terms, automatically escalate a regional conflict into World War 3 unless the membership treaty has a lot of irregular language specifically designed to avoid that - e.g., exempting any obligation to deal with aggression of a level commensurate to what's already occurring. Which would, of course, undermine the treaty's credibility and that of the organization, humiliate Ukraine, and make everyone involved look weak and feckless.
10. However, refusing them NATO membership would look even worse than weak and feckless - it would reek of fear, and be an open invitation for Putin to brazenly invade and conquer Ukraine. And that could in itself cascade into a wider war anyway, as appeasement tends to do.
My solution would be to talk them down from asking for NATO membership and get them to settle for a deal that involves advanced armament and logistical support without any de jure obligations. If they can defend themselves given technical and financial parity with their invader, then in the future it could be worth the trouble of signing them up. But if they want membership in order to have US, French, British, German, etc. soldiers dying for them...that's not a commitment anyone in the alliance is politically prepared to make.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)may be introduced to Colonel Putin instead of Major Putin. Let Ukraine first pick a more moderate President who concurrently knows what he's doing. Then let them detach from the West, accept Putin's discount for gas and let things rest for awhile. Putin went to war because of American hegemony--not to prove he was a bad ass. Could he want to rebuild the SU? Sure. But he will be careful and settle for less if conditions dictate. Depends mainly on the new alliances forming as a result of all the countries that have been attacked by the US. The neocons need to vacate government and get back to playing bridge.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)What Vladimir Putin wants is immaterial to the decisions of free people whom he threatens. There is international law, which he is openly violating; treaties that he is violating specifically to do with Ukrainian territorial integrity; and every other word out of his mouth on the subject of Ukraine is some laughable, bald-faced lie or victim-blaming psychotic madness.
Suggesting that Ukrainians should nullify their elections because Vladolf Putler doesn't like the results is contemptible. Nor should their decisions about whom to align with be affected in any way by the imperialistic threats of a bellicose neighboring country that sees them as its property rather than a sovereign nation.
They appear willing to defend their country, but can't even begin to match the weaponry and financing of the Russian military, so that's an area where we can assist. It's their call whether they want to ultimately take back Crimea - land guaranteed to them by UN recognition and treaty signed by Russia - but their decision should be based on their own values and priorities, not on the raw physical power of Russia to prevent them from controlling their own territory.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)spirit thereof when the US entered Kieve to replace a leader more conducive to the West so they could move Russian pipelines out of Ukraine and turn it into Greece2. Ukraine is losing and will continue to lose until they do some constructive appeasement, if you will, and decease their role as a neocon puppet state. The elections were questionable as were there no money from the West some of the the votes of the vote determiners would have changed. I will stick to what I said would happen if Ukraine and the Candy Man begin an military power surge. Ukraine won't like it when the air is full of Shysters and Sandals.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)No one other than the Russian government makes those claims, and no one outside of Russia believes them.
Tell me, is there any significance to your having signed up for DU on March 17 of this year? Like, for instance, that being the very day that Crimean separatists declared Crimea's secession from Ukraine, when large numbers of Russian commenters started flooding English-language news and political sites with outlandish, alternate-universe propaganda?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)accusatory suggestion which sounded like something that came out of an interrogation by the CIA. I come to DU for a host of reasons and participate it many discussion--not just ones regarding Ukraine and Russia.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)Because I'm a big softy.
Do you really think the things you're saying aren't glaringly conspicuous on a liberal American website?
Democrats typically don't go around advocating Russian military expansionism, telling countries being invaded and occupied by foreign aggressors that they need to work harder to appease them, promulgating conspiracy theories that trace back to Kremlin press releases as their ultimate source, and regurgitating the talking points of a radical right-wing foreign dictatorship.
Your comments stick out like a sore thumb.
If you really want to promote this crap, be more subtle.
VanGoghRocks
(621 posts)proposal in March for a 'federal' Ukraine?
I'm very disappointed to see the Russophobic elements here completely ignoring Lavrov's eminently sensible proposal, almost as though he never made it. Nuland and Pyatt's ignoring and dissing it, I get. But DU?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)back will cause the West to have a lot of egg on Kagan and his string-puller's faces. And the current regime seems to fear egg more than reasonable corrections.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)The fact that he represents a government currently invading and occupying Ukrainian territory does not magically grant him such status.
Moreover, it's beyond fatuous to suggest that the Russian government can act as an honest "mediator" between the Ukrainian government and separatist rebels armed, indoctrinated, supplied, funded, and militarily commanded by Russia.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)through international TRW to see if they've had any recent wires of huge sums of money?
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)This thread is about Ukraine requesting NATO membership to defend its territory against the Russian invasion that no one other than Russia denies is occurring.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)its structural interest, but you don't say who we can use. I get you in spades, "True Blue Door".
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)Response to True Blue Door (Reply #68)
ballyhoo This message was self-deleted by its author.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)to not pursue mediation and act unilaterally to protect its UN-recognized sovereign territory, including Crimea.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)when they allowed the US to knowingly and wantonly attempt with success to overthrow the government in Kieve. Let the Kieve government take their case to an international court and have the US called to answer questions as to the efforts of one Victoria Nuland and associates in her efforts to bring down from power one Viktor Yanukovych. If said international court says the treaty is still bonified than Kieve can get whoever they want to mediate redresses. The US government cannot do what it wishes anywhere in the word without be called on it anymore. Usually they resort to more extreme means, but this is just as wrong.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)You're sticking out like a sore thumb here.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)board. Vlad will work out everything and soon Crimeas will have their own Nieman-Marcus and be dotted with Subways. And the people will sing and chant for their benefactor, like they are doing now. Putin started out badly but began to have second thought about his life. I think he even saw the Dali Llama. Nothing wrong with my thumb but my daughter did drop a chair on my left foot today, and I can hardly walk. Tomorrow I just may post all day, but probably more on IS and work with the team to try and figure out a strategy on taking them out. No more insults--
VanGoghRocks
(621 posts)absolutely ZERO proof or evidence provided for that outlandish assertion).
What's beyond fatuous is for the neo-Nazi and fascist putschistas to think they could ban the Russian language and that the people of Eastern Ukraine (largely Russian Slavic) would take that insult lying down. Oh yeah and let's not forget the putschistas' outlawing of the Ukrainian Communist Party after said party received 13% of the vote in the last pre-putsch elections. Speaking of fatuous.
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)Calling people defending their country against fascists "fascists" themselves.
Calling people who reject Putin's grandiose fantasies of militant ethnic expansionism "Nazis" because it's always Opposite Day in Russia.
Calling people who gave up on peaceful protests when a Kremlin-backed dictator started massacring them "putschistas" while Russians have no political rights anymore under Emperor Putin.
Be honest - who do you think you're actually brainwashing with this crap? We have eyes. We know the facts from countless different sources, every democratic government and international diplomatic organization on Earth, and the only people spewing the alternate-universe crap you just did are the Kremlin, RT News, and Ron Paul.
So tell me, why do you feel it's appropriate to come on a website for an American political party with liberal values and spout that Big Lie garbage in defense of military conquest and fascism?
What do you think it's going to avail you, seriously?
Do you think we're going to start doubting our own eyes and reason because you tell us 2 + 2 = 5?
Think you can Jedi mind-trick the entire world into believing that Russia has a right to invade sovereign nations wherever there are Russian-speaking communities, literally the argument Hitler made for annexing the Sudetenland?
Propaganda like this makes the world hate Russia more. It makes free people sick to their stomachs listening to incessant, compulsive lies that are so stupid their only possible purpose could be as an insult, not an actual attempt to deceive.
So just stop it.
Response to True Blue Door (Reply #65)
Post removed
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Please meet Stepan Bandera. Perhaps he is a (distant) relative of
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=883249
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accuses me of being a Nazi. Also, pretty obvious Putinbot troll.
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Aug 29, 2014, 10:21 AM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.
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Explanation: Personal attack.
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I'd suggest they stick with the classic Margherita, and ask that it be made in
a wood-fired oven...
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)
muriel_volestrangler
(101,306 posts)a couple of hours earlier: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=883136
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)Coming here is one of this contingent's more bizarre targeting decisions, like we wouldn't notice the sudden appearance of people spamming word-for-word Kremlin talking points.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)People need to be more assertive in their online communities in dealing with these highly organized information warfare assaults by a foreign dictatorship.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts)
True Blue Door
(2,969 posts)They're behind a Great Firewall now. Or should we call it the Iron Firewall? Electronic Curtain?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,232 posts) bemildred
(90,061 posts)SELIGER, August 29 (RIA Novosti) – Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko violated no laws when she signed a gas deal with Russia, and her persecution by the former Ukrainian leadership damaged ties between Kiev and Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday.
“When Tymoshenko was sent to prison, we clearly articulated our stance on the issue: I usually said [that] I considered the use of criminal law methods in politics inadmissible. This had a negative impact on Russian-Ukrainian relations. We were convinced that her signing of gas contracts with Russia constituted no crime,” Putin said.
Tymoshenko served two terms as prime minister under Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko and narrowly lost to Viktor Yanukovych in the 2010 presidential election.
In 2011, Tymoshenko was sentenced to seven years in jail for abuse of office for personal benefit for signing gas contracts with Russia in 2009. According to the prosecution, the conditions of the agreements caused large-scale material damage to Ukraine’s state-owned Naftogaz amounting to roughly $190 million. The opposition called the sentence politically motivated.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140829/192463118/Putin-Says-Tymoshenko-Did-Nothing-Wrong-Persecution-Damaged.html
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Tymoshenko is a snake disguised as a woman.
VanGoghRocks
(621 posts)in eastern and southeastern Ukraine, so I take your point.
That said, I think Putin is trying as best he can to be conciliatory, although his efforts thus far have been routinely rebuffed and rudely rejected. Putin strikes me as the sole adult on that particular playground. I'm glad he's at the helm of the Russian Federation. Can you imagine the situation were Limonov or one of the other radical Russian nationalists in charge? Jesus.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Just two days after the presidents of Ukraine and Russia agreed to work toward peace in Eastern Ukraine, tensions between the countries are rising again with fresh accusations from Kiev on Thursday.
Ukraine officials have accused Russian troops of entering Ukrainian territory after a rebel leader admitted that there were Russian volunteers among their ranks. ""Among us are fighting serving soldiers, who would rather take their vacation not on a beach but with us, among brothers, who are fighting for their freedom," said rebel leader Alexander Zakharchenko. Russia has denied these allegations as “senseless.”
Meanwhile, former Prime Minister and Ukrainian political leader Yulia Tymoshenko has called for martial law to be declared in Donetsk and Luhansk, and has also requested foreign military assistance.
"We must call an urgent session of the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) and adopt the introduction of martial law in Donetsk and Luhansk regions and ask governments and nations of the whole world to grant Ukraine effective military assistance," said Tymoshenko.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Ukraines-Tymoshenko-Calls-for-Martial-Law---20140828-0033.html
A charming creature. She is quite wealthy I hear too.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)BRUSSELS, Aug 29 (Reuters) - Ukraine wants supplies of weapons but does not expect NATO to send soldiers to help it fight Russian troops in its eastern provinces, Kiev's ambassador to NATO said on Friday.
Asked if any NATO member was currently supplying Ukraine with arms, Ihor Dolhov told reporters after an emergency meeting with NATO ambassadors: "No, unfortunately not."
Dolhov said Ukraine was also not receiving any state-of-the-art weapons, despite Russian suggestions to the contrary. "No, not yet," he told reporters.
Dolhov was speaking in Brussels after ambassadors to the alliance discussed the escalating crisis in which NATO said well over 1,000 Russian troops are now operating inside Ukrainian territory.
http://www.trust.org/item/20140829150930-1i1lb/
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)
MFrohike
(1,980 posts)Isn't the continuous expansion of NATO one of the major problem areas of the US-Russia relationship?
Xolodno
(6,390 posts)Response to muriel_volestrangler (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bemildred
(90,061 posts)
PersonNumber503602
(1,134 posts)we will stop attempts to join NATO"
