US man in North Korea given 6 years of hard labor
Source: AP-Excite
PYONGYANG, North Korea (AP) North Korea's Supreme Court on Sunday sentenced a 24-year-old American man to six years of hard labor for entering the country illegally to commit espionage.
At a trial that lasted about 90 minutes, the court said Matthew Miller, of Bakersfield, California, tore up his tourist visa at Pyongyang's airport upon arrival on April 10 and admitted to having the "wild ambition" of experiencing prison life so that he could secretly investigate North Korea's human rights situation.
Miller, who looked thin and pale at the trial and was dressed completely in black, is one of three Americans being held in North Korea.
Showing no emotion throughout the proceedings, Miller waived the right to a lawyer and was handcuffed before being led from the courtroom after his sentencing. The court, comprising a chief judge flanked by two "people's assessors," ruled it would not hear any appeals to its decision.
FULL story at link.
Matthew Miller, a U.S. citizen, sits on the dock at the Supreme Court during his trial in Pyongyang, North Korea, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2014. North Korea's Supreme Court on Sunday sentenced Miller to six years of hard labor for entering the country illegally and trying to commit espionage. (AP Photo/Kim Kwang Hyon)
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20140914/as--nkorea-detained_american-06a6426366.html
Zorro
(15,756 posts)madville
(7,413 posts)To not get imprisoned in North Korea is to not travel to North Korea. I also plan on not getting kidnapped and beheaded in Syria or Iraq by not traveling to the Middle East, it's a strategy of mine, seems to work.
Works for me too.
yuiyoshida
(41,871 posts)Had gone to North Korea to slip an Illegal Bible into a public place, and was caught leaving one at a cafe in Pyongyang. They had said that these North Koreans needed to be Christians and by golly he was going to leave a Bible because it was his right to do so.
I guess he didn't have that right in North Korea.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)does not allow missionaries from other countries into their nation anymore so why should North Korea have to allow it?
Now our diplomats will begin talking to them about his release. If you want to go into North Korea or any other nation that you know will use any means to arrest you then you should go at your own risk.
this.
chrisa
(4,524 posts)Imagine US police breaking the doors down of churches and arresting everybody in there, or arresting people for having a Quran on them. Very authoritarian.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)freedom of religion - which ever religion we chose. North Korea and India have their own laws. Because we have freedom of religion in our own nation does not give us the right to override their laws. And yes they are authoritarian.
India is not quite as bad as North Korea as they do allow churches led by native peoples to exist. They had so much trouble with outsiders that they put a stop to it back in the 60s. Now if you want a leader for your church in India they have to be native born leaders. I assume that many go out of the country for training as my church has many in our colleges.
Oppression? If this young man went into North Korea knowing that he could be arrested because he is breaking their laws I do not call that oppression. Oppression is when you are doing nothing illegal but still get punished for your faith.
Township75
(3,535 posts)We don't have the right to override laws that prevent women from driving nor divorcing their husbands?
These guys are idiots for getting themselves into this mess but just because a different country won't tolerate a bible doesn't mean it's ok to but people into slave labor camps for it.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Saudi Arabia so their women could drive?!
It's not "ok" to do many things governments do. That includes illegally invading sovereign nations and killing their citizens based on lies about WMD's.
Nose in our own trough, you know?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)work to send one idiot in to protest it. The only way I have seen the attitudes towards women change is through education and their own actions. We do what we can to help but we do not send people in to override their laws. If you know where we are doing this I would be interested in knowing where?
In the case of religion we do just that. Not we the government but we the churches. Apparently you think we have the right to do that and there will be no consequences. Unfortunately those who are dealing with North Korea are dealing with a selfish dictator who does not care about justice only about getting his own way. Our government warns travelers that it is unsafe. And our government will no doubt see what they can do to get the fool out.
chrisa
(4,524 posts)Actually, laws themselves can be a means of oppression. By that logic, carrying out genocide against an entire faith would not be oppression because the country where it is happening passed a law allowing the genocide to happen. Oppression by governments by very definition is legal.
Lars39
(26,117 posts)They do help start churches.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Lars39
(26,117 posts)Not healthcare workers at all. Everything's hush hush since their presence there is illegal.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Except there is already a network in place developing churches in India. Just ran across an old article talking about a church in Memphis that spends more than 5 million on missions to foreign countries, India included. Just mind boggling. Hard to read, but here it is. The missionaries I know did not come from that church...
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/local-news/india-bellevue-baptist-goes-on-global-mission-h
jwirr
(39,215 posts)India does nothing when these outsiders come. My church obeys the laws and sends the medical help they need. That does not mean that they do not talk about their faith. They just provide a needed service while doing it.
JI7
(89,287 posts)if anything they have too many of them
jwirr
(39,215 posts)JI7
(89,287 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)moral law. He was breaking a government law which is valid in that country. That is what he is being tried for. A moral right includes consequences. That was the whole point of Thoreau's writings.
Response to jwirr (Reply #6)
Hoppy This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hoppy
(3,595 posts)The Koreans, too.
jmowreader
(50,589 posts)The first person to discuss is Matthew Miller, the one who was just given six years to explore human rights abuses in North Korean prisons. I feel confident the guards in whatever labor camp they put him in will joyfully give him LOTS to explore.
The second is Kenneth Bae, a Christian missionary given 15 years for attempting "a Christian plot to overthrow the regime."
The third is Matthew Miller, who left a Bible in a hotel room. This one is especially sad: He says he has a wife and three elementary-school-age kids who depend on him for support, so naturally the first thing he had to do was go straight to a country that throws people in jail for proselytizing and start doing it.
If Jesus was going to save North Korea, one would think he'd have done it by now.
yuiyoshida
(41,871 posts)are Matthew Miller... The second is Kenneth Bae...that's two people. There is a third?
jmowreader
(50,589 posts)He's the one who left the Bible in his hotel room.
toby jo
(1,269 posts)EEO
(1,620 posts)Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)That doesn't make sense.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Which I would think no one would.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...much less their excuses for imprisonment, or a prisoner's waiving a right to representation.
A government that deliberately confuses journalism or mental illness with espionage is just flexing muscles.
Historic NY
(37,460 posts)At a trial that lasted about 90 minutes, the court said Matthew Miller, of Bakersfield, California, tore up his tourist visa at Pyongyang's airport upon arrival on April 10 and admitted to having the "wild ambition" of experiencing prison life so that he could secretly investigate North Korea's human rights situation.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Do we actually buy that?
Historic NY
(37,460 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Good point. But still - it seems possible that his behavior/comments may have been coerced.
Who knows?
Clearly, I am not as up on this story as I should be.
I don't fully have a handle on what this guy is all about.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)That behavior is not what I'd expect of someone tryingto avoid going to prison.
VScott
(774 posts)He knew he was fucked anyways (whether he wanted it or not).
I suspect the only reason he was even allowed a choice was because hes a
Westerner, and AP was there.
Hell, they probably would have put the defense attorney on trial if he was suspected of trying
to hard to get his client off the hook.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)karynnj
(59,510 posts)write of NK human rights abuses. What is clear is that he really made a serious error in judgment in doing this and he will be paying for that. In addition, he certainly has a family that is being put through hell dealing with this and likely frustrated that they can not protect this young man from what he brought about.
Had he been a soldier, a reporter, an aid worker who was arrested while doing something that - by most - could be seen as needed, if not heroic, there would be a lot more sympathy. Even the other two, have the misguided sympathy of evangelicals. Looking at the article, the demeanor of the boy (young man), what I see is a kid, who may not have clearly thought out this action and - maybe for the first time in his life - is in trouble. Because he is a 24 year old, who had the money to book a trip to NK as a tourist, he likely has had a pretty privileged background. Now, he is causing another headache for the State Department, which has many other problems to deal with.
To me, it is amazing that anyone would go to a country, which we do not have direct relations with because we have designated them as not deserving them, and INTENTIONALLY create a conflict there. (I don't even get why anyone would go there as a tourist as there are many many other countries to visit!)
This case is different than the other two - which are both Christian missionaries, who are intentionally breaking the law because they think their religions call to convert non believers means they should. Those cases, and one in Iran, where an Iranian born US citizen who was previously jailed (and freed) for Christian proselytizing returned to Iran and was convicted of breaking the same law again, are tougher. In both cases, you have evangelists in this country saying they did nothing wrong - rather they are doing God's work and in both cases, are complaining the State Department is not helping them.
This ignores that neither of these countries take proselytizing lightly and these people have proudly done just that. Additionally, the US has very little leverage with either country. (In the case of Iran, Kerry was asked in the House hearing on the interim agreement with Iran why the release of this man was not a precondition to that agreement. Kerry pointed out that it would be wrong to "give" Iran anything in that agreement in return - pointing out the House committee would not want him to do that.)
To me, it is amazing that anyone would go to a country, which we do not have direct relations with because we have designated them as not deserving them, and INTENTIONALLY create a conflict there. (I don't even get why anyone would go there as a tourist as there are many many other countries to visit!)
Spot on as far as those points! All of these individuals have thrown themselves to the wolves and expect the US Government to bail them out. They went knowing the risk and still did it!
On another note: As I have stated before I live in South Korea. Until several years ago there use to be day tours over to Kaesong (that is the industrial city just above the boarder). The falling out between the two Koreas led to the canceling of the tours. One of my good friends and former co-worker went on the tour and I had hoped to go as well. I think given what has happened in the last five years I've changed my mind and will wait for the regime to fall instead. Plus it was going to be $175...a little steep.
rpannier
(24,350 posts)Just for the eerie effect it was worth it
I went the year before it closed down
If they opened it again I would go
The only thing about the trip I didn't like was the South Korean border official confiscated one of my book of stamps I bought.
I was stupid though. The following day I was going to Japan for four days. The official asked me if I was staying in Korea.
I said I was.
If I had said I was leaving for Japan tomorrow, they would have given me the stamps at the airport and I could have mailed them back to Korea from Japan
Oh well. It was very educational
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)My FIL was born in a village outside Pyongyang and fought on the side of South Korea. I spend a lot of time reading about and learning about North Korea as it is fascinating.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)or something like that.
He seems to be lucky when it comes to having a wish come true.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Brigid
(17,621 posts)About Protestant heroes like William Tynale, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, and of course the granddaddy of them all, Martin Luther. Apparently he failed to pay attention to what happened to most of them.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Hope he survives.
jmowreader
(50,589 posts)mackerel
(4,412 posts)find he has committed some made up offense while in prison.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Assuming that the story is accurate?
cali
(114,904 posts)JI7
(89,287 posts)of how to do it in a way that others have.
just because someone wants to do something doesn't mean they can do it.
especially if his only training was religious work .
he also seems like the type that will go back even if we do bring him back here.
rpannier
(24,350 posts)Humanitarian visit from someone most likely
iandhr
(6,852 posts)should be required to reimburse the taxpayerson what it's going to cost to get them out of there choir