Second Dallas nurse with Ebola was on Frontier Airlines flight 1143Article title
Source: Yahoo News
DALLAS A second nurse who treated Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan has been diagnosed with the deadly disease a day after flying from Ohio to Texas, officials said.
The nurse, identifed by WFAA-TV as Amber Joy Vinson, reported a fever on Tuesday and was immediately isolated at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, officials said.
The CDC said Vinson was not experiencing symptoms at the time of her flight, but asking all 132 passengers on Frontier Airlines flight 1143 from Cleveland to Dallas-Fort Worth which landed at 8:16 p.m. Monday to call 1-800-232-4636.
After 1 p.m. ET, public health professionals will begin interviewing passengers about the flight, answering their questions, and arranging follow up, the CDC said in a statement. Individuals who are determined to be at any potential risk will be actively monitored.
A bleary-eyed Dr. Daniel Varga, the hospital's chief clinical officer, called the second worker's infection an unprecedented crisis during a news conference.
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-diagnosed-in-second-dallas-nurse-105542930.html
Will the Obama administration be able to handle this?
still_one
(92,061 posts)Has the legal authority to respond to the outbreak and control of infectious disease. Power extend by/through HHH(?).
still_one
(92,061 posts)Response to candelista (Original post)
Little Star This message was self-deleted by its author.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)What power of quarantine, food distribution, etc?
I think at best, he can close government offices, maybe the Post Office, and maybe some banking regulations. I don't think he could even expand admissions to Veteran's Hospitals.
For one thing, he could stop the planes coming in from Liberia.
sweetloukillbot
(10,968 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)sweetloukillbot
(10,968 posts)There are no flights from the hot zones. Travelers yes, and I do think some better screening should be in place. But nobody flys from Liberia to America. They fly to Europe and then to America.
candelista
(1,986 posts)Psephos
(8,032 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)karynnj
(59,498 posts)You do realize that the flights are usually from Europe to the US.
Not to mention, what about any US citizens currently in Liberia - will we bar their entry back home?
candelista
(1,986 posts)Potentially infected people are STILL being allowed to enter the US. And do you know what happens when they arrive? TSA functionaries check their temperature.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)Quarantine anyone - of any nationality including US - for 21 days when if they fly to the US having visited any affected country --- even if they thought they had no contact?
Not to mention, what about anyone from Dallas, where there were THREE cases? For any individual the probability has to be near zero -- but it is NOT zero.
I think the measures the CDC is taking -- and the fact that as more people are treated, treatment will improve as they learn what works. This is NOT AIDS where the government ignored the epidemic as it spread. Sure it is scary that you can catch something that could kill a completely healthy person quickly.
candelista
(1,986 posts)No one enters the US with a Liberian passport or stamp, or a stamp from another affected country, until the epidemic is over.
Eventually you will agree with me when this disease starts popping up all over the US.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)Where are they suppose to say. Your response goes beyond my first question which was to require a 21 day quarantine - which likely would be quite expensive to accomplish.
Not to mention --- if it pops up all over the country and some places handle it as poorly as the Texas authorities did, it could be that fewer people contact it from someone from overseas than from US epidemics that do not need to happen! (ie they could have REALLY quarantined the contacts -- with no air flights allowed. Note that contacts of another person - in NJ - were not suppose to leave their homes. )
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)No US airlines go there. You have to go through Europe and then Lagos, Nigeria to get there.
candelista
(1,986 posts)So someone goes to France from Liberia. The French check his temperature at the airport. He's normal. He gets on a plane for the US from France. He arrives in NYC. They check his temperature. It's normal. So he leaves the airport. Next day, he has a temperature.
He's contagious.
Did I really have to spell this out for you?
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Do I have to spell out to you why not??
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)This is a well understood power in times of epidemics.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Maybe the FBI and ATF can be considered to be police agencies, but I don't see them as much use in this situation.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)In United States constitutional law, police power is the capacity of the states to regulate behavior and enforce order within their territory for the betterment of the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of their inhabitants.[1] Under the Tenth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the powers not specifically delegated to the Federal Government are reserved to the states or to the people. This implies that the Federal Government does not possess all possible powers, because some of these are reserved to the State governments, and others are reserved to the people.
Police power is exercised by the legislative and executive branches of the various states through the enactment and enforcement of laws. States have the power to compel obedience to these laws through whatever measures they see fit, provided these measures do not infringe upon any of the rights protected by the United States Constitution or in the various state constitutions, and are not unreasonably arbitrary or oppressive. Methods of enforcement can include legal sanctions, physical means, and other forms of coercion and inducement. Controversies over the exercise of police power can arise when its exercise by the federal government conflicts with the rights of the states, or when its exercise by federal or state authorities conflicts with individual rights and freedoms.
840high
(17,196 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)amandabeech
(9,893 posts)years ago. It was designed for biological warfare damage containment. It seems that was a hot topic during the anthrax scares. Perhaps a revised version should be considered now, to be on the safe side.
calimary
(81,098 posts)way. Especially the GOP Death Panel members (which is actually just about ANYBODY in the GOP. Hell, I'll go farther than that. Anybody who votes for them or gives them money!)
"Republican Cuts Kill"
http://agendaproject.org/give/
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)The President can draft various professions like epidemiologists, physicians, nurses, veterinarians to work for the government to help control a disease outbreak. Executive order can do that really fast, it's already drawn up in case it's needed quick.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)I'm pretty sure there are even limitations on using the Armed Forces.
Going back to Katrina, it seems to me that the President can't even send in FEMA until requested by a governor.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)The most the CDC can do is quarantine a state and port of entry, they have no authority within a state. The last time an entire state was quarantined was the spanish flu epidemic about 100 years ago.
http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/aboutlawsregulationsquarantineisolation.html
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Neither is the CDC, America's Privatized Health Care System, the American Domestic Flights System or anything else with the exception of workers at Emory Hospital in Nebraska right now.
This is a OUTBREAK. Folks need to get their head out of the sandbox, stop with the Politics Game of "It's His or Her Fault" and realize this is ALL OF OUR FAULT to failing to care about this growing outbreak in West African countries until it hit our backyard -- where we are wholly UNPREPARED to deal with it.
The Virus has MUTATED. It is known and we are not being told the truth. Plain and simple.
C Moon
(12,208 posts)"An unusual statement alleges confusion and lack of protocol at the Dallas hospital where a Liberian man died."
"...In addition, they said, the nurses tending him had flimsy protective gear and no proper training from hospital administration in handling such a patient."
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-dallas-20141014-story.html#page=1
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)C Moon
(12,208 posts)weren't covered properly, and were told to use medical tape to block it up.
Wish I could find the link, but it may have been on the radio.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)I'm unsure how they could have had an open break or entry point (Nose, Mouth, Cut, Ears, Eyes, Private Parts, ETC....) on their neck. If they are worried the virus can gain entry via skin, then the news media need to STOP LYING and confirm this virus is airborne.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)On the neck might account for that. Either way, the nurses SHOULD HAVE had proper equipment, of course, and obviously did not.
Why do I have the feeling we are just beginning to learn what really happened???!!!
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Should have had ALL the Proper Equipment, Period. Also, yes we are at the beginning of learning about the series of band-aid missteps that have occurred.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)to aerosol spread. And make sure you bone up on the actual meaning of those epidemiologic terms before you go any farther.
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)...after the hospital sent him home with a 103 degree fever. Guess what the CDC did? They told the hospital to admit him, instead of sending CDC people to handle the case. The CDC has recently apologized for this.
marlakay
(11,425 posts)so it wouldn't spread further.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)CDC was not called during Duncan's first visit.
Only during the second visit, after which he was not send home.
candelista
(1,986 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I've not heard that the virus has mutated.
PSPS
(13,579 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)I suspect it may have become more transmissible, said Ira Longini, a biostatistician at the University of Florida, who cited recent cases among health workers who thought they were taking careful precautions. The Dallas health worker case announced today does raise a red flag, but you cant prove anything from it, he said.
Longini is studying the probability that the secondary infection rate -- or how many fellow household members get the disease from an infected person -- is higher in the current outbreak than it has been in the past. A greater number of secondary infections per case could indicate that the virus has become more transmissible, he said.
The Ebola virus circulating in West Africa is already different from previous strains. While scientists dont fully understand what the changes mean, some are concerned that alterations in the virus that occur as that pathogen continues to evolve could pose new dangers.
Researchers have identified more than 300 new viral mutations in the latest strain of Ebola, according to research published in the journal Science last month. They are rushing to investigate if this strain of the disease produces higher virus levels -- which could increase its infectiousness.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-15/ebola-outbreak-boosts-odds-of-mutation-helping-it-spread.html
Mind you, of course the virus as with ANY VIRUS that has been around for over 30 years (since 1976) has MUTATED over the course of time. Now, can we remove heads out of the sandbox about Ebola and its' dangers?
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Viruses and bacteria mutate all the time. That doesn't make them more deadly. There is no scientific evidence that ebola has mutated in any significant way that affects severity or transmissibility. Period.
I SUSPECT it MAY have become more transmissible means absolutely zilch. A statistician, SPECULATING about the world's first truly widespread ebola outbreak, which does not appear to be any different than any other except location, location, location that let it spread among a denser population than the mostly far rural outbreaks previously, doesn't amount to squat.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Why is a Bio-Statistician affirming the likelihood the virus has mutated is HIGH and are you a Bio-Statistician or just a internet poster acting as if they have a Ph.D for the knowledge base resource necessary to question a Bio-Statistician?
Waiting on this beautiful bean footage response....
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)research results.
Do you not understand this??
Good god.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Acting like Chicken Little based upon your own theories never turns out well.
candelista
(1,986 posts)Try again.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 15, 2014, 02:07 PM - Edit history (1)
When it OBVIOUS that our Privatized Health Care System of Band-Aid Care (with the exception of Emory Hospital in Georgia) have no idea how to handle this virus to lessen transmissions.
Thirties Child
(543 posts)The hospital in Nebraska is a different entity. Both seem to be doing a good job handling ebola patients.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)The Hospital in ATL is Emory and Nebraska is the...Nebraska Medical Center...
"Mukpo, 33, is being treated at the Nebraska Medical Center and had a blood transfusion from Dr. Kent Brantly, the first American who contracted the disease while working for a missionary organization in Monrovia. Brantly recovered from the disease."
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/nebraska-ebola-patient-ashoka-mukpo-tweets-road-good/story?id=26167082
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)out loud, stop delaying.
UNLEASH THE CAPITAL LETTERS!!!!
candelista
(1,986 posts)People are saying that the government screwed up, that's all.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)But of course viruses mutate.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)candelista
(1,986 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)wrote POST 4--a completely different person--who made that entirely unsupported claim.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=918599
You need to follow the conversation.
crim son
(27,464 posts)The same rude poster told at least three people goodbye when they did not agree with him/her, just this afternoon. In my case, included with the farewell was this, "ymmv," which *could* mean "you marvelous model of valor" but I doubt it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)a difference of opinion....e.g. "I find the turkey and avocado sub to be the most delicious choice at SUBWAY, since you aren't very fond of guacamole, YMMV."
I think some of the problem here is the poster's failure to follow who's conversing in the thread. It's exacerbating the situation and making the conversation confrontational.
crim son
(27,464 posts)Thank you for explaining YMMV!
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)I suspect it may have become more transmissible, said Ira Longini, a biostatistician at the University of Florida, who cited recent cases among health workers who thought they were taking careful precautions. The Dallas health worker case announced today does raise a red flag, but you cant prove anything from it, he said.
Longini is studying the probability that the secondary infection rate -- or how many fellow household members get the disease from an infected person -- is higher in the current outbreak than it has been in the past. A greater number of secondary infections per case could indicate that the virus has become more transmissible, he said.
The Ebola virus circulating in West Africa is already different from previous strains. While scientists dont fully understand what the changes mean, some are concerned that alterations in the virus that occur as that pathogen continues to evolve could pose new dangers.
Researchers have identified more than 300 new viral mutations in the latest strain of Ebola, according to research published in the journal Science last month. They are rushing to investigate if this strain of the disease produces higher virus levels -- which could increase its infectiousness.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-15/ebola-outbreak-boosts-odds-of-mutation-helping-it-spread.html
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)You are making yourself look like a complete fool.
candelista
(1,986 posts)From the article: "Researchers have identified more than 300 new viral mutations in the latest strain of Ebola, according to research published in the journal Science last month."
What do you think the journal Science is? Chopped liver?
I am afraid it is you, my friend, who looks like a fool.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Boarded a Plane (Domestic Air Flight from Dallas to Cleveland and Back) DAY before she shown symptoms. If that is not a cause for concern, then keep playing in the sandbox. Your choice....
jtuck004
(15,882 posts):fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear::fear:
This is a little like 4th grade. That was a waste of time too. Congratulations.
Bye.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)meanwhile...less hope the passengers on the Frontier Airlines Traveling from Dallas to Cleveland and back....not develop any symptoms from the virus. Also, less hope she was not coughing, sneezing or other sharing bodily fluids while in the close quarters of the plane -- since we KNOW that the exposure to bodily fluids is this virus spreads.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)this may get really bad. It may not. But it is most assuredly a motherfucking serious situation. Keep the hipster douchebag talk to yourself for awhile.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)anonymous chatter and insults as I am being offered. I'm comfortable.
douchebag <- we will see
I bet a thousand bucks you won't be getting your hands dirty when the real work starts. Will be in-vis-i-bull or in the way if and when you do show up. Met lots like that.
bye
On edit: Just a thought. Spend time reading about it, you won't be so...whatever you are.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Who is providing the links of information. That would be moi....
Meanwhile, maybe instead of knocking the science and proof actual reading for the fainthearted would be a fundamental skill...
Unless of course, to do so would back up a verification of the facts as presented, thus far.
Have a wonderful afternoon, evening and lifetime in the sandbox...
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Aside from that, if you're actually a medical "professional" who spends his/her free time making fun of those concerned about the possible outbreak of a deadly disease, I contend you're anything but a professional. Finally, what fucking moron do you intend to find to take you up on your ludicrous wager? I'm not a medical professional, and as such, there's no fucking way I'll "get my hands dirty when the real work starts". What kind of medical professional wants untrained people getting their hands dirty during a serious outbreak? Does this represent your typical thought process? Please just let me know you don't practice your craft in Northern California and I'll feel some small modicum of relief.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)WTHeck is this?
longship
(40,416 posts)That's what biology does. However, there has never been a documented case of a virus mutating to give it a new mode of transmission. NOT ONE. Ebola does not infect the lungs. Therefore, it cannot be airborne. Ever.
QED.
What was your "quod erat demostrandum"? That we don't have to worry about Ebola because it isn't airborne? So I guess AIDS is not a worry, either?
FarPoint
(12,287 posts)Thus, the Ebola virus is 99% not likely to mutate.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)"When viruses enter a cell, they make copies of their genetic information to assemble new virus particles. Viruses such as Ebola virus, which have genetic information in the form of RNA (not DNA as in other organisms), are notoriously bad at copying their genome. The viral enzyme that copies the RNA makes many errors, perhaps as many as one or two each time the viral genome is reproduced. There is no question that RNA viruses are the masters of mutation. This fact is in part why we need a new influenza virus vaccine every few years.
The more hosts infected by a virus, the more mutations will arise. Not all of these mutations will find their way into infectious virus particles because they cause lethal defects. But Osterholms statement that the evolution of Ebola virus is unprecedented is simply not correct. It is only what we know. The virus was only discovered to infect humans in 1976, but it surely infected humans long before that. Furthermore, the virus has been replicating, probably for millions of years, in an animal reservoir, possibly bats. There has been ample opportunity for the virus to undergo mutation.
More problematic is Osterholms assumption that mutation of Ebola virus will give rise to viruses that can transmit via the airborne route:
If certain mutations occurred, it would mean that just breathing would put one at risk of contracting Ebola. Infections could spread quickly to every part of the globe, as the H1N1 influenza virus did in 2009, after its birth in Mexico.
The key phrase here is certain mutations. We simply dont know how many mutations, in which viral genes, would be necessary to enable airborne transmission of Ebola virus, or if such mutations would even be compatible with the ability of the virus to propagate. What allows a virus to be transmitted through the air has until recently been unknown. We cant simply compare viruses that do transmit via aerosols (e.g. influenza virus) with viruses that do not (e.g. HIV-1) because they are too different to allow meaningful conclusions.
One approach to this conundrum would be to take a virus that does not transmit among mammals by aerosols such as avian influenza H5N1 virus and endow it with that property. This experiment was done by Fouchier and Kawaoka several years ago, and revealed that multiple amino acid changes are required to allow airborne transmission of H5N1 virus among ferrets. These experiments were met with a storm of protest from individuals among them Michael Osterholm who thought they were too dangerous. Do you want us to think about airborne transmission, and do experiments to understand it or not?
The other important message from the Fouchier-Kawaoka ferret experiments is that the H5N1 virus that could transmit through the air had lost its ability to kill. The message is clear: gain of function (airborne transmission) is accompanied by loss of function (virulence)."
http://www.virology.ws/2014/09/18/what-we-are-not-afraid-to-say-about-ebola-virus/
countryjake
(8,554 posts)FarPoint
(12,287 posts)Please stop listening toHannity Show if intentional misinformation.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)"The virus can survive for several hours on surfaces, so any object contaminated with bodily fluids may spread the disease. According to the C.D.C., the virus can survive for a few hours on dry surfaces like doorknobs and countertops and can survive for several days in puddles or other collections of body fluid. Bleach solutions can kill it.
In the current outbreak, most new cases are occurring among people who have been taking care of sick relatives or who have prepared an infected body for burial. Health care workers are at high risk.
More than 8,000 people in Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, Senegal and Sierra Leone have contracted Ebola since March, according to the World Health Organization, making this the biggest outbreak on record. More than 3,800 people have died.
The disease continues to spread in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone. The C.D.C. said on Sept. 30 that Nigeria appears to have contained its outbreak.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published a report in September that outlined a worst-case scenario, in which the total number of cases could reach 1.4 million in four months. The C.D.C.s model is based on data from August and includes cases in Liberia and Sierra Leone, but not Guinea (where counts have been unreliable). It also projects further into the future and adds ranges to account for underreporting of cases."
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html?_r=0
Yep, it can survive for HOURS surfaces yet is not a mutated or airborne virus because preparing for what could be to come is like crying wolf to some. Feel free to keep playing in the sandbox....
FarPoint
(12,287 posts)Just stop listening to right winger radio.... They are spreading hysteria misinformation. I listen on my car radio daily for the traffic reports...thus I am forced to hear the hype...
Additionally, yesterday I attended a lecture on Ebola. It was given by several Infection Disease Physicians... They addressed Ebola virus mutation and shared that it was 99% unlikely.
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)Viruses mutate. That is one of the things they are good at. But that doesn't mean the mode of transmission has changed, which is what I assume you are referring to. There are different types of viruses. The type of virus determines how they are transmitted Viruses do not mutate from one type to another. Nothing that has happened up to now suggests that anything has changed in how the virus is transmitted. You do not understand how easy it is for a virus that is transmitted through bodily fluids to infect a health care worker. All it takes is one breakdown in handling protocol. Stop shouting and educate yourself a bit.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Really? That is my right to shout if I so choose. It is also an equal right to spread the FACTS. The facts are this virus has mutated and a mutated virus can grow stronger as has been proven by it strengthen mutations in Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia -- as the virus lives on surfaces for hours and up to days if not treated with bleach or other strong disinfectants.
Meanwhile, keep your head in the sandbox, if you so choose. That's your choice however, don't promote the same for everyone.
yellowcanine
(35,693 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)From what to what and where is your link with that bit of information?
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Or at least put on the tinfoil hat.
karynnj
(59,498 posts)By the way, Emory University Hospital is NOT the Nebraska hospital - though both have treated or are treating patients.
Note that Obama did order military to help build hospitals in Africa before anyone got sick here.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)can't be prepared for anything as long as they have a manipulated media doing the bidding of the MIC. Do you think they will eventually declare martial law?
Darb
(2,807 posts)You get your info from Fox news types, or talk radio types trying to influence an election via panic.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Darb
(2,807 posts)not too impressed.
Cute reply though...nah, not really. Childish actually.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)While we just learned today the Ebola Virus can live on Surfaces for DAYS, in a Male Sperm for 90 days on have a 42 incubation period. Not airborne? Think again.
I suspect it may have become more transmissible, said Ira Longini, a biostatistician at the University of Florida, who cited recent cases among health workers who thought they were taking careful precautions. The Dallas health worker case announced today does raise a red flag, but you cant prove anything from it, he said.
Longini is studying the probability that the secondary infection rate -- or how many fellow household members get the disease from an infected person -- is higher in the current outbreak than it has been in the past. A greater number of secondary infections per case could indicate that the virus has become more transmissible, he said.
The Ebola virus circulating in West Africa is already different from previous strains. While scientists dont fully understand what the changes mean, some are concerned that alterations in the virus that occur as that pathogen continues to evolve could pose new dangers.
Researchers have identified more than 300 new viral mutations in the latest strain of Ebola, according to research published in the journal Science last month. They are rushing to investigate if this strain of the disease produces higher virus levels -- which could increase its infectiousness
"http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-15/ebola-outbreak-boosts-odds-of-mutation-helping-it-spread.html"
Darb
(2,807 posts)someone who says it is airborne. Sputa is not airborne. Is it contagious? Yes. Very? Yes, sure. Is it floating in the air? No.
Please produce someone who says it is airborne, or consider tamping down on the panic a bit.
Also, how many posts does it take to recognize panic? None, some of us just lurk.
LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)Thanks for the update. Sounds like we are all going to die, and there is really no hope.
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)No, the virus has NOT mutated. It is NOT an "outbreak" in America. It is 3 cases, and probably up to half a dozen more by the time this is all over.
From a public health perspective, do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? We have bigger "outbreaks" of TB and other serious illnesses. Yet nobody is running around with their hair on fire about these. Why? Because we can and do manage them. Just like we can, and are, managing ebola. Except "ebola" is now being treated as "OMG, killer clowns from Mars are attacking and we're all going to diiiiiiiiiie! It's the end of the world!" No, it really isn't.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)You do realize, that viruses of all sorts are constantly mutating, don't you?? It's actually EVOLUTION, but in microbes it happens on a time scale that we can actually watch.
I think you probably mean a mutation that allows it to spread via aerosol droplets below 5 or 10 microns, right? That has never happened in all of our decades of observing viruses and studying how they mutate. There are multiple reasons why this is not only unlikely but pretty much evolutionarily impossible. You should listen to several hours' worth of podcasts on This Week in Virology before you go digging that hole any deeper.
http://www.twiv.tv/tag/ebola/
Dopers_Greed
(2,640 posts)I was at first disbelieving of the media's fear mongering. But now we' seen how weak, lax, and passive this is being handled, I believe an outbreak is almost certain.
Shitty for-profit healthcare system
No policies in place for handling ebola patients
Happening in the state with the highest % of uninsured in the country
Happening in a city with a giant hub airport
candelista
(1,986 posts)They now admit that they should have sent their own people to Texas right away.
hamsterjill
(15,220 posts)One would think it would be logical for the health care workers to stay put in Dallas and not widen the circle of people they were in contact with during the period of time in which they might contract the disease.
That seems elementary to me, and yet obviously, was either not discussed at all with the health care workers, or the health care worker in this instance didn't abide by recommendations. I doubt it's the latter.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)There were 70 health care workers for Mr. Duncan. Are they flying all over the country, too?
I absolutely cannot understand why this person thought it would be okay to travel. And the fact that they are trying to find everyone who was on both flights worries me too --- so is a person contagious when they are asymptomatic or not?
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)And flying tourists from hot zones to here is good. Cluster fuck.
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Sorry but Dr. Varga is an idiot..... 2 people is not a crisis. The crisis is the complacency that these hospital workers are exhibiting. Infectious diseases are serious, and with EVERYTHING in the news the past month about the Ebola infections in Africa, why they did take more precautions is beyond scope. This man was in a waiting room for 3 hours....The administration of this hospital should be held accountable, not the President.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Our Privatized Healthcare System is the Problem, Our Issue with Making Everything a Political Issue is the Problem, The Profit Instead of Caring About People over Profits and Revenue is the Problem, the President himself is not the Problem --- our ENTIRE SYSTEM is the issue.
We should have helped the West African Nations when this outbreak occurred in late 2013-2014. The fact that we did not use the vast resources of the USA to help, is the problem!
rtracey
(2,062 posts)Historic NY
(37,449 posts)Dallas Hospital should have been locked down weeks ago...those with patient contact identified and isolated....
Its getting further out of the region..
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)The CDC is an embrassment at this point.
Response to Historic NY (Reply #40)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
maxrandb
(15,295 posts)Chico Man
(3,001 posts)Did they have a drink in a plastic cup?
Did they sneeze or cough - even once?
Seems like an issue to me.
Baitball Blogger
(46,682 posts)Are people who take care of Ebola patients getting free tickets to fly? Seems to be a pattern that should be avoided.
Here's a request: Have you taken care of an Ebola patient in that last 21 days? Yes? Do us all a favor and delay your travel plans.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)This simple question should be asked and a demand should be made, one would think....
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)So how the hell did she manage to get on a plane?
Baitball Blogger
(46,682 posts)that the nurse will have to field.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)Apparently she checked her fever. She had a fever. Then apparently she hopped on the plane back to Dallas.
BobbyBoring
(1,965 posts)If all 132 passengers (and crew of 8) somehow became infected. I know that's a stretch, but an air liner cabin is a hostile environment. Until I started dosing myself with Airborne (good name huh?) days b4 flying, I would get at the least a nasty cold.
That could lead to a real epidemic.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I have no faith, however, in this hospital or frankly ANY red state 2nd or 3rd tier private hospital to deal with Ebola effectively.
Their approach to infection control seems to be: Protocols? We don't need no stinkin' protocols from those elites and gubmint workers. We'll do what we damned please cuz we're Texans and we always do it right!
Psephos
(8,032 posts)Now THAT is scary.
CDC has bungled and happy-talked this from the start.
Their deepest core mission is to have epidemiological protocols in place. Before they spend a dime on anything else, they should have that nailed down.
They didn't.
Response to candelista (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
Chico Man
(3,001 posts)She left on an airplane because it was the normal she was seeking..
Daemonaquila
(1,712 posts)Asymptomatic (i.e., non-contagious) person was on a plane. She became symptomatic later, and now is being treated. What's the issue?
The statement that this is an "unprecedented crisis" just shows that this one doctor (who probably knew next to nothing about ebola until just very recently) doesn't handle stress very well. The reality is that we'll probably have a few more Dallas cases, especially people treating him from the time he got to ER until a couple days later when they got the protocols better straightened out. They'll catch them early, and hopefully most will pull through.
We've gone through TB crises, especially after WWII with many sick immigrants and asylum seekers who were infected while trying to escape slaughter. We've gone through a polio crisis. We've gone through the AIDS crisis. Ebola? This is not a crisis in America. It will be a few cases, but we're not about to have an epidemic. Only docs and politicians and media who know nothing of the REAL health crises we've had are running around with their hair on fire.
LisaL
(44,972 posts)She already had fever when she flew.
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/10/15/second-dallas-hospital-worker-diagnosed-ebola/17290677/
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)....I'm really, really, REALLY trying not to get freaked out about this....but this has me worried...
LisaL
(44,972 posts)They admit she had a fever when she flew, which means she was already symptomatic.
So claims that she had not symptoms were false.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)truthisfreedom
(23,138 posts)for this new crisis.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)The Surgeon General has nothing to do with the CDC. SG is a PR job.
Sgent
(5,857 posts)The Surgeon General is head of the Public Health Service, which one of 7 uniformed services and includes 1000's of active duty doctors, nurses, dentists (and even a few vets detailed to the CDC) who ultimately report to him. In a time of national emergency or war, they are the reserve corp of physicians and other experts. They also provide all medical care to the Coast Guard and NOAA.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)And they are a uniformed service.
AngryOldDem
(14,061 posts)You have people whose sole attention should be focused on working toward protocols to control this disease. Instead, they have to stop and be the point-people for the media, do rumor control, and everything else that should by job description be handled by a surgeon general.
Indirectly, the GOP -- by rejecting the SG nominee for a totally bullshit reason -- is responsible for some of the clusterfuck we're seeing now.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)"On Sunday morning political shows, it was left to an official with the Obama administration, senior advisor Dan Pfeiffer, to talk about the deadly Ebola virus. Obviously, Pfeiffers political expertise does not qualify him to reassure the public about a potential infectious disease health crisis, and it may have led one to wonder exactly where Americas doctor, the Surgeon General of the United States, is hiding and why they are not stepping into the spotlight to put Americans minds at ease. The truth is this nation has not had a Surgeon General for a year, but not because President Obama failed to appoint an extremely qualified candidate; he did last November. However, the National Rifle Association, no Americans idea of an organization concerned with the health and safety or preventing even one American citizens death, issued an edict to Senate Republicans that a vote to confirm the Presidents appointee meant an immediate end to their political career. Going into a hotly contested midterm election, Senate Republicans did precisely as their NRA masters dictated and made sure America will not have a Surgeon General unless they support spreading the epidemic of gun deaths in America.
Last November 14th, the President nominated Dr. Vivek H. Murthy, an extremely qualified candidate to replace acting Surgeon General Dr. Regina Benjamin. It took three months, but the Senate finally got around to holding a confirmation hearing for Dr. Murthys appointment. However, the National Rifle Association exerted its very substantial legislative prerogative and blocked Murthys confirmation because he does not recognize that the NRA is fourth and all-powerful branch of the federal government and called for sane gun restrictions to prevent more Americans from dying unnecessarily from the gun violence epidemic. It is exactly what a real medical professional, and highly-qualified potential Surgeon General of the United States, is supposed to do; help prevent a deadly epidemic from spreading to save American lives." ....
Nihil
(13,508 posts)Thanks for the update - I was about to go on a google side-track to find out why there was no current Surgeon General.
What a screw-up ...
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)and a wake up call...
We just can't let the NRA dictate public health policy --or any policy--anymore.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,221 posts)The poll turned up one oddity: Those who claim to be following the outbreak the most closely also have the most inaccurate information about it.
For example, people who are paying a lot of attention to Ebola are twice as likely to hold the erroneous belief there is effective medicine to treat it. They are also more likely to believe it is spread easily, even though the deadly fever is less contagious than the flu, said Redlawsk.
"Ebola is particularly scary, with no cure and a high death rate," said Redlawsk. "Believing it is easily spread feeds this fear," he said.
"The tone of the coverage seems to be increasing fear while not improving understanding," he said.
In general, women respondents were more likely to hold misconceptions about Ebola, with 73 percent believing it is easily spread, compared to 60 percent of men. Respondents under the age of 30 are also more likely to see the fever as highly contagious.
http://www.nj.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/ebola_poll_nj_fears_an_outbreak_here.html