Islamic State 'retreating' in key Syria town of Kobane

[flamingdem]

Source: BBC

Islamic State militants are retreating in parts of the strategic Syrian town of Kobane, a Kurdish official has said.

Idriss Nassan told the BBC IS had lost control of more than 20% of the town in recent days.
US defence officials say hundreds of militants have been killed around Kobane as US-led air strikes intensify.

The news came as US President Barack Obama and European leaders agreed on the need to do more to stop the IS advance in Iraq and Syria.

In a video conference, Mr Obama and the leaders of the UK, France, Germany and Italy agreed to step up support for an "inclusive political approach" in Iraq and training for local forces in Iraq and Syria, a statement by UK Prime Minister David Cameron's office said.

'Cleaning operations'
Mr Nassan said Kurdish YPG forces in Kobane were making progress against IS.

"Maybe in the few past days [Islamic State] was controlling about 40% of the city of Kobane, but now... less than 20% of the city is under control of [IS]...," he said.

"Today YPG started cleaning operations in the east and south-east of Kobane."

US defence department spokesman John Kirby said "several hundred" militants had been killed in and around the besieged town, though "it could very well still fall" to IS.


Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29629357

---

The Iraqis are complaining that they lack air cover now because planes have been sent to Kobani.

Lesson? Invest in the Kurds. Don't let them down even if Kobani is symbolic they have shown their value as fighters and allies. Let Erdogan squirm and the Iraqi army get on the case.

[Recursion]

1. I've said for years we should back an independent Kurdistan and drop our other regional clients

They're the only ones who actually do things with the money we send...

[The Magistrate]

2. I Certainly Agree Establishing A Sovereign Kurdistan Is A Proper Course, Sir

I suspect it would solve more problems than it would create....

[shaayecanaan]

6. Unless Iraq agreed to the partition, it risks creating another Kosovo precedent...

and the West already looks hypocritical enough re its distinctions between Kosovo, South Sudan, the West Bank, etc and Abkhazia, Crimea, etc on the other.

[The Magistrate]

14. Kurdistan Is Already Effectively 'Partitioned' From Baghdad, Sir

The government in Baghdad has no means whatever of enforcing authority over the Kurdish regions of Iraq, and has not had much for some time. It has been substantially autonomous now for almost a quarter century. It was under the control of Baghdad previously for less than three quarters of a century, and for much of that time, only loosely.

Obviously where friction would come is the question of Mosul. A century ago it was a Kurdish city. They want it back, and of course, it comes with a good deal of oil.

Iraq, as was Yugoslavia, is not by any means a natural country, but something cobbled together from disparate parts for someone else's momentary convenience. It has only ever been held together by force and fraud in judicious mixture.

Purely in relation to Iraq, all the I.S.I.L. eruption amounts to is the secession of the Sunni areas from the Baghdad government, or more to the point, their separation from the Shia region of Iraq. Taken together with the state of affairs in Kurdistan, the partition of Iraq is already more or less accomplished, and by popular rising and popular feeling. An armistice freezing the present front lines would look pretty close to the partition lines a sound and fair-minded geographer would draw up, if given the task.

[shaayecanaan]

23. and Russia has been the de facto sovereign power in Crimea

since 1783. As you note, the arguments you use could just as easily be made by Islamic State, as well as others.

[The Magistrate]

24. I Have No Interest In Sidetracks, Sir

Each problem is peculiar, and solutions must be cut to suit, not made to measure off some standard pattern.

The problem of Kurdistan is an old one, with deeper roots than many suppose. It is not just that creation of an independent Kurdistan was proposed as part of the peace settlement in the Near East after the Great War, at a time when it at least seemed possible to leave the Turkish government remaining in Istanbul ruling no more than actual Turks, when Persia was in no shape to object to anything, and neither Syria nor Iraq existed. France was going to get much of southeastern Anatolia, where an Armenian state was to be erected; Italy was to get a good slice of the Anatolian pie as well. The eruption of Bolsheviks into the Caucasus, and of Gen. Kemal's Nationalists, upset these projections badly, with some bitter and murderous, but now largely forgotten wars. France held on to all it could as Syria and Lebanon, while England held the oil in the north of Iraq and Persia, and for the first few years of it fought a further covert war with the Turks, who aided Kurdish rebellion there with not just weapons but formed troops.

But even beyond this is the fact that their neighbors mostly detest them. Some of it is the standard low regard mountaineers and people of the lowlands feel for one another, but for much of the Ottoman period, the Kurds served as enforcers for Istanbul, providing reliable troops to suppress disorder among Arabs. They also carried out a great proportion of the killing in the various waves of massacre directed against Armenians, including the genocidal episode during the Great War. Few were sorry to see them left standing when the tune came to an end in the game of musical borders around 1922, and since then, they have been of some use to virtually all the countries who hold parts of their native range, as a means of causing trouble for some neighbor who also holds part of the Kurdish territory.

The Turkish effort to make Turks out of them, rooted in the whole reform and modernization effort of Ataturk ( nee Kemal ), is something separate. Turks never were a very large portion of the Ottoman empire, and absorption of the Kurds in eastern Anatolia, or failing that, their effective subjugation, was considered necessary to give Turkey sufficient heft to stand as a notable power in the region and the world. Since the Turks, in the Cold War period, were solidly anti-Communist and ruled from the right, Kurdish resistance inevitable took on a leftist tinge, which is most of why the chief political faction of Turkish Kurds, the PKK, is regarded officially by the U.S. as a 'terrorist' organization, a thing which is quite inconvenient at present for U.S. policy options....

[shaayecanaan]

29. Hardly a sidetrack...

The Kurds are hardly alone in their national aspirations, the Caucasus is veritable font of would-be states, and the Russians would waste no time in championing the emergence of South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Karabakh or Transnistria should the US champion an independent Kurdistan (which they probably won't anyway, given that even this would serve Russian interests more than those of the US - the Russians are pretty matey with the Kurds).

As it is, the Americans have their hands full trying to preserve the Turkic states as they are currently - even gently trying to cajole the Armenians into giving up their claims on Karabakh. It would be deeply inconsistent with US foreign policy to suddenly support an independent Kurdistan - as it is, the US cannot even formally acknowledge the Armenian Genocide, which, although important, is of far less practical significance to the Turks than the Kurdish issue.

You did well to note the historical misdeeds of the pesh merga, although the Armenians weren't the only ones to get a taste. Around 300,000 Assyrian Christians were also done to death according to tender Kurdish mercies, compared to which the recent conquest of historical Assyria by ISIS seems positively benevolent. If anyone has a right to Mosul it is the Assyrians, it has been their effective homeland since the time of Sargon the Great, 1000 years before the God of the Bible ever existed. For a while, it seemed that the Americans favoured an autonomous Assyrian entity in Iraq, but decided against it, and for probably sound reasons. Now, they can only await their fate, and dream of the good old days under Saddam, who notwithstanding his cruelties, was the best protector of religious minorities that the region has ever seen.

[The Magistrate]

35. Of Course It Is A Sidetrack, Sir

Last edited Thu Oct 16, 2014, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)

The discussion is not one of any general principle of national aspiration, but of what might eventuate from a particular situation.

Personally, I neither oppose nor support the establishment of a Kurdish state. I simply observe that the thing is coming into being, and that, as I said in my first comment here, it could solve more problems than it creates. That the existence here of a people who do not have a state, and desire one, has been a long-running problem in the region, and a source of much instability and bother, cannot be seriously denied.

It is true that the massacres of Assyrian Christians in the Great War tend to be overlooked. They were on smaller scale in absolute terms than that inflicted on the Armenians, but certain of similarly devastating proportion to the communities affected. In the latter stages of it, a small detachment from the English NorPerForce ( an item which is quite a tale in itself ), gave assistance to a large body of Assyrian refugees in flight from attack. During England's occupation of Iraq, Assyrians provided the English with their most reliable native infantry in the region. That, shall we say, did not endear them to their neighbors, and at times all the way down to the present the community as a whole has been made to pay for it. Even in the Gulf War of the '90s, Hussein juggled force deployments somewhat to ensure Assyrian conscripts came under heavy bombing.

I repeat that Iraq is not a natural nation, not the expression of a people conceiving themselves as more one than not and desiring to rule themselves. It is an artificial creation of three elements, which are not only disparate from, but hostile to one another. Their continued rule under one central authority must always consist in a contest between them to be in the position of either doing down the other two, or joined in alliance with one to do down the singleton remaining. It was set up in a manner intended to assure that the Sunni Arab minority would be dominant over the other two, and throughout its history this condition was maintained by force applied from the capitol. This was most marked in the latter stages of the only period in which the place could be truly regarded as independent, namely the forty-odd years of Ba'athist rule, between the removal of the foreign Hashemite monarchy, and the U.S. invasion under the Bush regime. Probably the mistake of greatest scale made in the latter act was the failure to realize the actual dynamics of the place, and the natural consequences which would flow from disturbing them. We kicked the keystone out of an arch, an arch that bridged the Middle East as a whole, and somehow are still amazed to see rubble falling and ruination as the result of it. The keystone cannot be set back into place; the arch cannot be restored. The rubble may yet sort itself into natural piles, and that is about that best that cam be hoped for as an outcome.

[Leontius]

75. It would just be correcting a mistake made in Paris in 1919.

[pinto]

17. I agree Mag. A de facto recognition of the regional realities in a way. And come what may.

Good to see you around.

[leftynyc]

25. It's what Joe Biden suggested

years ago. I'm not aware of any connection to PNAC with VP Biden.

[The Magistrate]

83. Thank You, Sir

Always a pleasure to encounter you.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. Independent Kurdistan where?

Iraq, Syria, Iran, and Turkey might have something to say about that, since Kurds claim parts of all their national territories.

Yeah, Iraqi Kurdistan is pretty much a de facto state, Syrian Kurdistan has been outside the control of the central government for a couple of years, but most of the Kurds are in Turkey, and they want to be independent, too.

[Major Hogwash]

21. But, isn't that exactly what PNAC wanted?

They wanted Iraq to be broken up into 3 smaller nations, along ethnic and religious lines.

[Recursion]

27. PNAC also breathes oxygen

I'm not going to stop just because they do.

That said, the US partitioning countries is the worst possible outcome. We should quietly support the Kurds in seizing a state and pressure the losing governments (most of whom are our clients) into accepting the fait accompli.

[MADem]

26. They are smart, they have integrity and they are good people. I agree with you. nt

[candelista]

60. All of them?

That strikes me as a racist generalization.

[MADem]

76. One would have to wonder why it would "strike" you in such a negative way.

Having lived among Kurds, I think I can speak to the finer qualities of the culture.

Why don't you give it a go, and then report back if you think you can prove me wrong.

[candelista]

77. Because all generalizations about cultures are idiotic.

Including positive ones.

[MADem]

81. I'll consider the source, thanks anyway. nt

[ballyhoo]

3. It's not just the Kurdish YPG forces that driving them back. It

is another group that may have made a surprising deal with the west.

[blackspade]

4. And that would be?

[ballyhoo]

5. Hezbollah.......The article is below.

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/10/10/has-isis-crisis-pushed-cia-bed-hezbollah-274517.html

[flamingdem]

9. How about that

Another strange bedfellow pops up.

[ballyhoo]

11. Hard to keep track of... Nashrallah is a military

genius but he hates the US, so something must have changed where they had to work together. But you'll never hear Joe Biden admit the US is working with Hezbollah. I think I understand it more now, but I don't like what I understand. One thing I'd like to know is how much of total oil production is ISIS selling itself.

[shaayecanaan]

30. There is no practical necessity for direct relations between them

The US openly acknowledges that it obtains intelligence from Syria. Given that there is not much that Hezbollah would be willing to tell the Americans but not the Syrians, and additionally that neither Hezbollah nor the US want to be seen to be talking to each other, it is likely that anything HA wants the US to know they could simply convey via the Syrian government.

[ballyhoo]

34. I know that, but "direct" and working together because

of similar goals forms many relationships in war and in life.

[karynnj]

57. You ignore that being against the same group, does NOT mean they are working together

Together implies at least some coordination. With Syria and Iran, the Obama administration has used the word "deconflict" -- which is a nuanced step down from cooperate or coordinate. That word, which I at first thought they made up, is very good. It means that they are insuring that they don't get in each other's way and that they do not do anything that would further inflame US relations with those entities. Given that the US has said Assad is a war criminal and must go, here, the fact that there have been no Syrian reactions to US strikes in Syria and that even Lavrov has moved to referring to this being "on the border" of legality - rather than his previous against international law.


With Hezbollah, even that is more than they would state.

[ballyhoo]

59. Nor does that mean the obverse. "deconflict"...oh, God....

[karynnj]

63. You said they are working together - I said you did not PROVE that

Given that Hezbollah has long been on the US terrorist list, you need more to state they ARE working together.

[ballyhoo]

65. "may have made a surprising deal with the west".

I still believe they are. I've given enough to sustain the conditional of the word "may".

[The Magistrate]

68. As A Question Of Basic English, Sir, 'May Have' Does Not Mean 'Has Done'

And you have given nothing, repeat nothing amounting to evidence that what you claim to be certain fact is anything but speculation and rumor. Further, in your efforts to try and appear to show your claim is actual fact, you have presented two completely separate and independent politico-military bodies as if one were a branch of the other, as ignorant and false to fact as if one were to claim, say, that the Republicans of Spain were the same thing as the Republicans in the United States in the thirties. You have claimed people engaged presently in a mutual campaign of assassinations against one another are allies on the battlefield. And all while dropping dark hints of inside knowledge and deep research. To call your postings on this a joke would be to over-rate them astronomically.

[karynnj]

54. You have presented NOTHING showing they are working together - why smear Biden?

Not to mention, exactly why is he a "military genius"?

[ballyhoo]

61. Is your opinion. Fine. Everyone can draw their

own conclusions after DDing it on sites you would considered not suitable. I don't consider my statement on Biden a smear. Interesting that you would?

[The Magistrate]

10. You Know, Sir, An Elementary Knowledge Of Geography Often Aids Understanding

Given who actually holds what territory in Syria, it is awfully hard to see how Hezbollah fighters could have got to the battlefield at Kobane. Government forces in Syria have no passage from the area they control through the belt of rebel and Islamist held ground on a line Azaz to Dier al Zor, through al Bab and the I.S.I.L. headquarters at Raqqa between them and Kobane.

Hezbollah has long been fighting alongside Assad's forces, and doing so to some detriment to its standing in Lebanon. In the present situation, where we are in a de facto alliance with Iran, doubtless there are noises of co-operation made from Iran's clients. The article you cite certainly does not establish co-operation between Hezbollah and the C.I.A., not by a long sight. In fact, a very large portion of the article is devoted to questioning the veracity of information claiming there is such collaboration.

[karynnj]

52. Nicely stated --- Newsweek"s title is ridiculous and clearly aimed to just get hits

Nothing in the article comes close to saying they are even "deconflicting" actions, much less cooperating. All they are saying is that both are fighting IS -- the same thing that can be said of Iran, Assad and many others that NO ONE would argue was "in bed" with the CIA.

[blackspade]

16. Holy crap.

Thanks for the link....

[Comrade Grumpy]

20. I haven't seen any evidence that Hezbollah has a presence in Kobani. Do you have any?

I know they have been fighting on the Syrian government's side in the civil war.

The article is a bit of a stretch, as it itself admits at the end.

[The Magistrate]

28. Nor, Comrade, Has The Article Any Mention Of Hezbollah Fighting With Kurds On The Turkish Border

As is often the case, the poster has claimed things his supposedly substantiating link does not support....

[ballyhoo]

33. Nothing more than I've presented and similar

articles I have not presented. I don't share your "bit of a stretch" evaluation at the end. If anything, it looks to me that Faddis thinks it a horrible "done deal". BTW, there are many articles I won't post here because their reception based on source. But you are free to look for them. Try "Turkish Kurds Hezbollah".

[The Magistrate]

36. And Again, Sir, You Fail To Read Past Headlines, And So Cite Things Which Do Not Say What You Claim

Here is a typical example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2786890/Funerals-fallen-battle-against-ISIS-Kurds-Hezbollah-bury-dead-desperately-try-stop-extremists-rampage.html

The headline says 'Funerals for the fallen in the battle against ISIS: Kurds and Hezbollah bury their dead as they desperately try to stop the extremists' rampage'.

The first sentence runs: 'Kurdish and Hezbollah fighters have been killed in suicide bombings and border clashes with ISIS militants as they fight to stop the extremists from extending their influence across the region.'

One can see where a person in a hurry to appear authoritative might take that as indicating two bodies fighting side by side, but of course no one with much knowledge of the geography and course of the conflict to date would have made that mistake, even on a cursory glance. And the body of the article makes it clear that the reference is to events in two widely separated locales, border regions of Lebanon, for the Hezbollah fighters, and the on-going battles on the Turkish border for the Kurds.

There is a small fundamentalist Kurdish group calling itself 'Party of God' ( Hezbollah ), but it is not affiliated with the Lebanese Shi'a body, and its militants and those of the P.K.K. shoot one another periodically.

It is worth point out this is hardly the first time you have done this. I remember well your citing not too long ago an article reporting that a large number of Yizidi were refugees in a particular location in support of a hasty claim you had made that most of the refugees in that place were Christians....

[bemildred]

37. Newsweak is not a good source, and that story is mostly a rehash (as one would expect from Newsweak)

The Christians in Lebanon developed a much more positive attitude towards Hezbollah after IS tried to take over the North, looking for an exit to the sea was my guess - and to cut Assad off from the coast, last Spring. I was talking to Shay (I think it was) about that a while back.

Hezbollah is like the Kurds, we are stuck with them whether we like it or not, and they are part of the government of Lebanon, one of the major political actors in the legitimated political system, and more to the point we have failed for decades to even put a dent in them, and so for that matter have the IDF and Israel. Generally, you get a bloody nose for trying it too. So it's better to get along. And, once you decide to live with each other, at least for the moment, it's better to talk.

The colonial arrangements in the Middle East (instituted after WWI and the French/British re-conquest of the area) are collapsing. People on the ground there understand this perfectly well, and they know their history and are looking to their interests. They will be happy to let us bomb their enemies for them, but they won't be taking orders.

Erdogan is talking about renewing the Ottoman caliphate. Putin wants to restore Russias influence in the near-abroad. The EU wants "growth". China wants to reassert itself. So does India. So do we all. The Kurds want a state, so do the Palestinians, so do a lot of others. The last hundred years was not good for empires, and the bigger they are, the more such issues they have to tear them apart.

Meanwhile, pretty much every place we have "helped" is falling apart, forming new nascent little states struggling to breath free. And in this environment, it is the Nasrallahs who everybody wants on their side, the Giaps, the guys who win dirty little wars.

The MIddle East is awash in unemployed young men, and Middle Eastern politicians think they should make excellent cannon fodder. It's going to be at least a regional war.

The Magistrates point about "how did Hezbollah get there" is well taken. Nasrallah is much more comfortable defending Lebanon than he would be sending his men to defend the Turkish border or the Kurds. He gets some heat for defending Assad as it is, but the ISIS guys did a good job of convincing the rest of Lebanon that maybe Hezbollah was not so bad.

---


Jumblatt: Relations with Hezbollah excellent: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2014/Oct-02/272703-jumblatt-relations-with-hezbollah-excellent.ashx

[The Magistrate]

38. Thank You For The Lnk, Sir

I forget to look up 'The Star' as often as I ought to.

Jumblatt dynasty is of course Druse, but has displayed extraordinary agility down the decades, so that they have often served as the decisive factor in local politics, whether these were being pressed in parliament or in battle.

[bemildred]

40. I do too Sir.

It shows up on my news aggregator, but I mostly used if for Lebanese news, so it tends to get stuck in the corner.

But Shay & I were talking about the Lebanese Christians and Hezbollah and that's how I got into that.

But I've been slacking off in general. What is being retired for, Sir, if not for slacking off?

[The Magistrate]

42. Bob Knows a Man Needs Slack, Sir....

"If you can't tell shit from shinola, don't order tuna-fish in a French restaurant."

[ballyhoo]

39. I agree with most of what you said; however,

Newsweek, indeed, may not be a good source, but it is at least a source some self-appointed judge will not throw out as not being suited for the forum. I use many direct contacts now I have with people in other countries who use local news sources. They may not be any good either but they are many times too small to have their owners press them into lying for a bag full of nickels. Whatever, I stick to my position Nasrallah and local Kurdish Hezbollahs are assisting in the fight against ISIS and making a difference. A known enemy purposely or inadvertently helps many times during war. I have seen it with my own two eyes long long ago.

[bemildred]

41. Hezbollah is most definitely fighting ISIS, the question is where? nt

[ballyhoo]

45. Lebanon and on the Turkish border...

both Hezbollahs but not related one to the other. Here is a hint so I don't have to use a local Turkish website that will come back as being prohibited. The former leader's name is Huseyin Velioglu. He was killed in a clash with Turkish Police Forces. They are Sunni, but still fighting with the Kurds against ISIS.

[bemildred]

48. I think I heard of that guy getting killed.

So, another "Party of God" then: "Hezbollah", but nothing to do with Nasrallah or Lebanon particularly.

The Kurds are diverse in their religious practices, but mostly Sunni. I would imagine the ISIS fellows would consider them suitable for beheading anyway,

[ballyhoo]

50. Yes, he was killed in a clash with Turkish Police Forces. Oh, ISIS

would definitely consider them suitable for beheading. Maybe I should have mentioned in my opening mention of Hezbollah that there are more than one branch of Hezbollah. I thought everyone knew this. Oh, well...

[The Magistrate]

55. It Is An Interesting Little Splinter, Sir

Locally, it is widely suspected of having been formed by the government, as a cat's paw to weaken the P.K.K., back in the days of Army rule. You know my general view on such allegations, but I would not rule it completely out. If it was so fostered, it got out of hand as mainline P.K.K. leadership was killed or arrested round the turn of the century.

Hard to say if they would be hostile to I.S.I.L. or not, and if I.S.I.L. regarded them with hostility, it would be more in the nature liquidating a rival to maintain a monopoly rather than a disagreement on basic aims --- after all, I.S.I.L. does not just want a theocratic dictatorship, it wants to be the dictator in it.

[bemildred]

69. I know almost nothing about it.

The Kurdish Hezbollah. I've seen it mentioned once or twice. I may have to start paying attention to Kurdish isssues again. After a period of "stability" things are really in play in Iraq again.

With regard to ISIL, I'm relying on their reputation for being religious sticklers, dogmatists that is, and the Kurds general repuration for being open minded about religion. Plus, I'm pretty sure the Kurds don't want to join the Calphate either.

[The Magistrate]

70. They Have Been Quiescent For Some Time, Sir

The thing devolved into a kidnap racket, which is what led to the killing of the founder by police, and which is one of the reasons I am a little more open to a 'hidden hand' narrative than usual regarding it.

[bemildred]

71. It's good to know that the government takes a firm hand with that sort of thing, Sir.

[The Magistrate]

72. When You Sign a Contract, Sir, You Have To Keep Up The Payments....

Where police move against such a racket, I generally suspect a quarrel over the split o' the swag....

Or else the need to show protection money really does buy a man something....

[bemildred]

73. Well, you're supposed to stay bought.

Not too much free lancing allowed. If you aren't under control, you are just another crook.

And it's good to give them a kick once in a while anyway, just as a reminder that it can happen.

So yeah, could be.

[The Magistrate]

49. Give It A Rest, Sir, Seriously

If they are fighting alongside the P.K.K. against I.S.I.L., they are doing in breaks between shooting at each other....

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/10/turkey-syria-kurds-kobani-pkk-kurdo-islamists.html#

"A call bound to escalate tensions between Huda-Par and the PKK appeared Oct. 7 through a Twitter account said to be belong to the YDG-H. It read, “To the attention of all our security units in Kurdistan and Turkey. Arm yourselves. Hezbollah-contra-Huda-Par members are to be executed wherever they are seen.” After the tweet, YDG-H members began attacking Huda-Par religious centers, associations and party premises in Diyarbakir, Batman, Bitlis and Siirt, where they are known to be strong. Huda-Par responded with arms, and the clashes intensified."

[The Magistrate]

43. Your Problem, Mr. Ballyhoo, Is Citing Hate Sites And Making Clear Expressions Of Bigotry

Last edited Thu Oct 16, 2014, 01:06 PM - Edit history (1)

As demonstrated here:

1)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=787698

Baloney. It's because of Victoria Nuland and her band

of nincompoops actions. Putin was just out riding his hog when the tires in Kiev started burning. He had to do something. Maybe if Nuland hadn't been listening to her neoncon husband Kagan, none of this would have happened. Look at this woman: if she ain't possessed, no one is.

http://wideawakegentile.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/fuck-you-victoria-nuland-and-fuck-your-whole-miserable-neocon-zionist-family/

( link to an extreme hate site, obviously Anti-Semitic )

2)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=790363


What is the matter with anyone trying to rid a town of

drugged-out gypsies? Have you ever had contacts with gypsies? They are not a savory type.

( endorsement of ethnic cleansing against Roma )

3)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=797508

Whatever has to be done to stop this

by the Right and the Nazis, sir. Some of us care about stuff like this. Some of us don't understand there just might be a conflict when the reporter of the Crimea voting happens to be on a Human Rights Group of Urkaine.


http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/05/05/kiev-and-right-sector-kristallnacht-odessa-extreme-graphics/

( links to yet another hate site )

4 )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=798523

Or...he's one of, if not the greatest,

leader of our times. He protects his people wherever they are; he throws financial crooks in jail; he maintains a morality that suits the greatest percentage of his people;, and he likes cats.

( some of that real 'Putin love', including an endorsement of anti-gay legislation in Russia )

5 )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014850023#post26

Accuses, as near as can be understood, the pilots or passengers of deliberately flying into anti-aircraft fire:

'Frame of reference....If the "victims"

knowingly and wantonly entered prohibited air space (a war zone), they are at least partly responsible for their fate. I'll leave the cute icons to you.'


It was particularly entertaining at the time to hear you pretend you had not a clue as to what sort of a site 'wide awake gentile' was, insisting it just came up first on your search for Victoria Nuland. A person who could honestly state he had no idea what a site title like 'wide awake gentile' peddled would need help tying shoes and crossing streets on the green.

[GGJohn]

47. Holy crap!!!!!

That is some bigoted, hate filled links.
Thanks for opening my eyes on this particular poster.

[karynnj]

44. The title of the article distorts the more complication situation that the article speaks of

The TITLE, not the article, falls prey to the false belief that the enemy of your enemy is your friend. The article does establish that IS (aka ISIS, ISIL, Daish etc) has MANY enemies.

The example here is that Hezbollah stopped IS from sending arms to LAF, a Hezbollah enemy - that we also are against.

The fact is that the US should be against ALL terrorist groups - rather Shiite or Sunni. The fact that Obama held back from arming the Sunni rebels because some were terrorists or allied with terrorists was not a mistake - even if the Republicans, Clinton, Panetta and the media think so.

In the case of Hezbollah, it is a Shiite terrorist group, but also has a political/governing wing that is part of the government of Lebanon. It is in Syria, allied with Iran, Syria and Russia - all of which are also against IS. One complaint in the past, was that until IS attacked Assad facilities, these forces fought most of their battles with Sunni rebels -- some that we support and some, like Al Nusra, that we do not support and fight as part of AQ.

In some ways, ours is the trickier position. They support Shiite, whether terrorist or not. We are fighting Sunni terrorists - both IS and AQ, while also trying to support Sunnis forming a moderate society that could play a reasonable role in a future Syrian government and in the Sunni area of Iraq. In Syria, the majority of people are Sunni, so it is not unreasonable that they have some representation in their government. (In Iraq, they are a minority.)

Both artificial states, Iraq and Syria, still suffer from the colonial "trick", that control of the country was easiest for the colonial power, when the MINORITY culture was given preference and power over the majority culture.

In Iraq, the minority Sunnis still feel that they deserve the power they had when Sunni Saddam ruled. In Syria, it is a minority Alawite family, that is allied with the Shiites that has ruled Syria for decades.

Cold war allegiances - on both sides - seemed to have preserved the worst governance everywhere.

I

[ballyhoo]

46. Yep. I think you understand. I'm right now

in the process of DDing Huseyin Velioglu, the former leader of Turkey's Hezbollah, who is now dead, to see who really followed him in power and why the Sunni Turkish Hezbollah is fighting ISIS. I have always had trouble with these crossovers.

[karynnj]

51. In earlier articles, writers have noted the similarly named group is unrelated to the Shiite group

of the same name. From Mr Google, Hezbollah (hisbullah) means "Party of God" in Arabic. So, it is not surprising to see theocratic parties - Sunni or Shiite - taking this name.

From the Wikipedia article n Velioglu, I followed the link to the Turkish Hezbollah article that states that it is also called Kurdish Hezbollah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_Hezbollah

I would expect that ANY Kurdish entity would be anti IS at a point where IS is attacking Kurds in Kobane and in Iraq. (It is interesting that they are said to be active against BOTH the government of Turkey and PKK. ) What is clear is that Turkey/Kurds may have a huge number of pre existing sides and that that has immensely complicated Turkey's actions with respect to IS. (It is pretty clear that the Obama administration is aware of Turkey's role in all of this -- ie Biden was not speaking out of turn - even if he had to soothe Turkey's hurt feelings.)

[The Magistrate]

56. Factionalism Has Always Been the Curse Of The Kurds, Ma'am

Saddam was able to find Kurdish allies even when his forces were engaged in the most brutal campaigns against the Kurds as a whole.

[ballyhoo]

58. Right. You explained it well. And looking broadly at your

last paragraph, this is the main reason the US should not be in the middle east. We don't know who we are really fighting; we don't know who the people we are fighting are fighting; and we don't know a victory in whoever we are fighting will be really a victory or a loss. We seem to be fighting just to be fighting--a neocon orgiastic dream come true.

Sure wish Christina was still here to explain it all. But great response, karynnj.

[The Magistrate]

62. Make Up Your Mind, Fella

This kiss here, slap there stuff is no way to win friends and influence people....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=920030

[karynnj]

64. You missed that what Obama is doing is OPPOSED to the neocons

Notice that he has been bashed by the neocon Republicans, the neocon Democrats and the neocon NYT and WP. Note that both Obama and Kerry have argued that this has to be the fight of the people in the region.

[ballyhoo]

66. They shouldn't be in the region period. And my further position

on this debacle would please you even less than you appear now. At the end of this fight, I will be dead and you will be old. And it will have been all so unnecessary with many young men whose fathers I may have served with killed by bullets the US paid for.

[The Magistrate]

67. For Him, Ma'am, as With the Old Lady And The Turtles, It Is Neo-Cons All the Way Down

Seriously, a splendid example of what happens when an ideological obsession meets a mere hat-full of knowledge and sets out on the inter-tubes crying "Excelsior!'

[freshwest]

7. For those who use Twitter, I found an excellent link on TOD today on this. A guy who is there:

Thomas van Linge @arabthomness

#Kurdistan BREAKING: #YPG and allies are in control of 70% of #Kobanê according to local journalists. #TwitterKurds #Rojava
10:05 AM - 15 Oct 2014

Unfortunately, I don't do Twitter and unable to make it show. Some TOD comments on the Twitter feed above:

japa21

If Turkey would allow passage of Turkish Kurds to go help in the fight, IS would be thrown out completely in just a matter of days. Erdogan is missing a major chance to gain good will from the Kurds...

And one more point. If IS does get tossed out of Kobane, it will mark a major defeat. If they can’t beat the Kurds, who were underarmed and who had a lot of women fighting, they will lose a lot of their draw. Additionally, the Iraqi forces, including the Sunnis, will not want to be shown up by the Kurds, particularly the female Kurdish fighters.

Losing Kobane, after gaining almost 70% of it, will be, if handled by the allies properly, a major turning point in the battle against IS. It won’t be over immediately, and you can be sure they will make a major push somewhere to show they still have “what it takes”, but resistance in other areas will be hardened...

I went to this guys timeline. Wow, full of stuff and not just about Kobane. I have been out of it so I didn’t realize that Ansar al Sharia, one of the groups implicated in the consulate attack, had taken over control of Benghazi, but it looks like they are being routed by a combination of Libyan army and locals.

Today's issue of TOD.

[flamingdem]

8. Yes, and Isis is taking lots of casualties

Including a notorius Chechen commander. On twitter Kurd siurces said that the Turks let three Kurd fighters bleed to death at the border. On npr they reported that Turk authorities let Kurds fleeing be locked up or return to Syria.

[Cha]

12. What!? Good news.. thanks, flamingdem

[flamingdem]

13. Rare good news Cha

The good guys are hanging in there and in spite of many misgivings about US involvement this one is a "good fight".

[Cha]

15. Of course it is!

[Cha]

19. For you flamingdem..

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/10/15/fantrum/

[longship]

31. Cha comes through yet again.

What a post!

Warms my black heart.

Viva la difference. The Kurds are awesome.

Ta ta, my friend.

[Cha]

32. It warmed my heart, too, longship.. I want these Kurds to be safe.

They're helping our Planet!

[flamingdem]

74. Yay, the Kurds will win the propaganda war with this

at least among those Isis members and wannabe members who can still think for themselves.

[Cha]

79. I forgot to add this Tweet with the 2nd graphic..

Mutlu Civiroglu @mutludc
Follow
Spksmn of #YPG Polat Can: YPG cn be a major prtner on the ground & play an essential role in fight agnst ISIS #Kobani

5:21 PM - 15 Oct 2014

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/10/15/fantrum/

I'm impressed, g.. I didn't know much about this at all.

[MontyPow]

22. Here's a lesson to be learned ... Leave the Middle East

[yellowcanine]

53. Did we also kill their second in command?

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. US: Hundreds of ISIL fighters dead in Kobane

US-led air strikes have killed several hundred ISIL fighters around the Syrian town of Kobane, the US military has said, but cautioned that the town near Turkey's border could still fall to the Sunni rebel group.

The US-led coalition launched about 50 air strikes on the mainly Kurdish town of Kobane in the past 48 hours, the largest number since the strikes inside Syria began on September 22.

John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said bad weather in Iraq had freed up coalition firepower to attack Kobane targets.

But he added the situation was fluid, with the Kurdish militia still controlling the town, although with pockets held by ISIL fighters.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/10/us-hundreds-isil-rebels-killed-kobane-2014101614044473902.html

[Cha]

80. A Message of Thank you to the United States & Pres Obama for Supporting Kobane, flamingdem..

Jenan Moussa @jenanmoussa
Follow
#Kobane Chief sends a "thank you" message to the United States for supporting Kobane.

Read here --> http://ow.ly/i/7eQaS v @mutludc
3:11 AM - 16 Oct 2014 282 Retweets 146 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/10/16/chat-away-448/

[nilesobek]

82. The President's strategy is working.

We are killing thousands of ISIL fighters by bombing the columns of vehicles they display so proudly while masked and waving AK-47s. What a bunch of cowards they are. If they are so proud, why the masks? At any rate, the airstrikes have reduced ISIL to just another wandering band of insignificant Sunni tribal terrorists. Its only a matter of time they are ruined completely and PBO will be vindicated for not putting, "boots on the ground."