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Omaha Steve

(99,613 posts)
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 09:41 PM Oct 2014

Four Chain Stores Will Close On Thanksgiving Day To Let Workers Spend Time With Family

Source: Think Progress

BY BRYCE COVERT

Four major chain stores — Dillard’s, Burlington, REI, American Girl — confirmed to ThinkProgress on Thursday that they will stay closed on Thanksgiving Day as other stores begin to announce they’ll begin Black Friday a day early.

In explaining its decision, a spokesperson for Dillard’s told ThinkProgress, “We choose to remain closed on Thanksgiving in longstanding tradition of honoring of our customers’ and associates’ time with family.” The other three didn’t elaborate on the reasons for staying closed.

By contrast, last week Macy’s was the first retailer to announce that it would be open on Thanksgiving Day, starting at 6 p.m. That’s the second year in a row it has opened on the federal holiday itself, rather than at midnight as it had in 2012. Walmart also told ThinkProgress that nearly 1 million workers will have to report to work on Thanksgiving as it will be open all day long. More are likely to make the same announcement, as last year Kmart, Target, Toys R Us, Gap, Best Buy, and a handful of others decided to follow Macy’s lead and begin Black Friday on Thursday.

While the stores that open say employees are happy to volunteer and get extra holiday pay, that may not be the whole story for everyone. The United States is the only developed country that doesn’t guarantee that workers can take paid holidays. That ends up meaning nearly a quarter of private sector employees don’t get them, including 45 percent of service sector workers. On top of that, many retail workers struggle with erratic scheduling practices that leave them without enough hours to live off of, so they may be desperate to get the extra shifts. There were also reports last year of Kmart workers who were denied their requests to take the day off.

FULL story at link.




Read more: http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/10/23/3583661/dillards-burlington-american-girl-thanksgiving/

37 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Four Chain Stores Will Close On Thanksgiving Day To Let Workers Spend Time With Family (Original Post) Omaha Steve Oct 2014 OP
Last year PC Richards said they would remain closed Renew Deal Oct 2014 #1
good on ya to these stores oldandhappy Oct 2014 #2
I don't care what stores are open that day, because I will SheilaT Oct 2014 #3
You're missing the point. peacefreak Oct 2014 #6
And by stating we will not shop on that day publicly we are trying to dissuade those retailers from TeamPooka Oct 2014 #8
Almost my entire working life has been spent SheilaT Oct 2014 #15
The United States, ONLY developed country that doesn’t guarantee that workers can take paid holidays BlueJazz Oct 2014 #4
The rational for maintaining that was Stores were closed on Sundays in the 1930s happyslug Oct 2014 #25
Very good read. Thank you much! BlueJazz Oct 2014 #31
Good. bigwillq Oct 2014 #5
Good. Travelman Oct 2014 #7
I will probably gets some boos for this Omaha Steve Oct 2014 #9
Been there, done that Travelman Oct 2014 #16
No boos here; its your choice so have at it! 7962 Oct 2014 #23
I have worked retail my entire life Iamthetruth Oct 2014 #35
I used to love working holidays when I was in high school...double time and 1/2 snooper2 Oct 2014 #26
I work in a clinic that stays open most holidays. Laffy Kat Oct 2014 #28
I have no problem with people being paid HIGH wages to work that day happyslug Oct 2014 #30
Bravo to these companies! sheshe2 Oct 2014 #10
gawd, is it already that time? Skittles Oct 2014 #11
Also DSW Shoes QED Oct 2014 #12
I think it's a good thing... SoapBox Oct 2014 #13
we don't shop on holidays, period Doctor_J Oct 2014 #14
Good there are stores staying closed. I will be shopping at stores that stay closed on Thanksgiving. greatlaurel Oct 2014 #17
Publix is also closed on Thanksgiving which is very decent of them unlike alot of cstanleytech Oct 2014 #18
the truly stupid thing is that they are chasing the same amount of dollars. mopinko Oct 2014 #19
They open earlier each year to be the first ones to grab that finite amount of money liberal N proud Oct 2014 #24
The stores that do this... iandhr Oct 2014 #20
Sanity: It's not just a good idea. CBHagman Oct 2014 #21
My wife thinks there was a huge backlash from last year stunt and she thinks a lot more stores will diabeticman Oct 2014 #22
I read that Costco was also get the red out Oct 2014 #27
COMMIE PINKO'S!!11 Turbineguy Oct 2014 #29
Costco, too Beaverhausen Oct 2014 #32
I will have to call dillard's and thank them. niyad Oct 2014 #33
The fact that this is even a news headline makes me sad... llmart Oct 2014 #34
I thought Thanksgiving was that evil holiday... BKH70041 Oct 2014 #36
Well that is nice..... whistler162 Oct 2014 #37

peacefreak

(2,939 posts)
6. You're missing the point.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:13 PM
Oct 2014

We who work retail would love to be able to spend the whole day with our families. Trust me, it's not voluntary. If the store is open & you're scheduled, you have to be there. Most of the time there is no differential for the holiday.

TeamPooka

(24,223 posts)
8. And by stating we will not shop on that day publicly we are trying to dissuade those retailers from
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:29 PM
Oct 2014

opening and making you work.
So point missed back at you.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
15. Almost my entire working life has been spent
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:20 PM
Oct 2014

in industries that operate 24/7. I was an airline employee for ten years. More recently I worked in a hospital. I have almost always worked Thanksgiving and Christmas, but in jobs that absolutely needed to be staffed those days. I KNOW what it's like to work on days you'd much rather be off.

Stores do not need to be open on Thanksgiving. Period.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
4. The United States, ONLY developed country that doesn’t guarantee that workers can take paid holidays
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:00 PM
Oct 2014

Why do I even bother to stay here?

On Edit: Because my friends are here and I'm a glutton for punishment.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
25. The rational for maintaining that was Stores were closed on Sundays in the 1930s
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:32 PM
Oct 2014

We tend to forget the last time we had serious discussion and change of laws in regards to the Employee-Employer relationship was when the New Deal wa New. We have NOT addressed the issue since, even through almost all retails stores are now open not only Sundays, but the Major Holidays of Thanksgiving and Christmas (I would include Easter, but that comes under the end of Sunday Closings).

Some things HAD to be opened on Sunday and starting in the 1960s the Courts started to use that fact to say it was a violation of Equal Protection of the laws to require most businesses to be closed while other businesses could be open. The States went through the motions of defending their laws on Sunday Closings, but then refused to pass any law on how to enforce such laws except when the State wanted to enforce them (and the State then decided not to enforce them).

Side note: Most states still have their "Blue Laws" on the books, they are just not enforced, either by court order as violation of Equal Protection by the Decision of the GOvernor and State Attorney General NOT to enforce them.

Thus there has been NO discussion on how such Sunday and Holiday openings has affected low income families (the Families most likely to be force by their employer to work on those days). The affect has been hard for it is hard to maintain a relationship when members of a family are like ships passing in the night, i.e. they all live in the same house, they all know each other, but each gets up at a different time and go to bed a different time and have very little time together to interact as a family on a weekly basis. The famous observation was the healthiest and most intact families are those that eat the most meals together. If such getting together start to fall to less then once a week, you see the family slowly fall apart. It is no one.s fault, the various members end up going their own way (I should NOT say it is no one's fault, it is our fault as a society by NOT giving them the time or opportunity to remain a family and that is one of the results of Sunday and Holiday openings).

This needs to be discussed, but when it is discussed people scream "what about emergency workers" or other people who have to work on Sunday. The answer has always been, most emergency workers, including doctors and nurses, tend NOT to be low paid minimum wage employees. Such high paid employees have the power, to to their pay and position, to make sure they get to meet the other members of their families other then in brief periods. As to lower wage workers who have to work with them, exceptions can be made, but I offer a better solution, but one that businesses will hate.

The best solution is to say that anyone who works on a Federal Holiday (for starters, Sundays can be added later if this is found to work, but I would try to add Sundays from day one) must be paid at least three times the minimum wage. A rule can be added that is someone is earning on an annual basis 2080 times the minimum wage it is assumed they are NOT covered under that act, but if under that amount the rule must be used.

Sidenote: 2080 hours is what a person works in a year working 40 hours a week for 52 weeks. Minimum wage today is $14,872. Three times that number is $44,616. Doctors and most Nurses earn more then that so it would NOT affect them. Other emergency workers earning less then that in my opinion should be earning at least $44,616 and if they are NOT what would be the objection to increasing their pay?

Sorry, when the rest of the industrialized world adopted pay holidays for their workers, many did NOT close down on Sundays (We have letters from Germans living in the US during the late 1800s telling their relatives who were moving to the US of the fact stores were closed on Sunday as something that was different in the US from Germany). Many had Universal Military Service (again starting with Germany). In such countries they told employers they had to pay their employees while they were on military duty, thus adding day offs to that requirement was NOT a big step.

Side Note: In Germany from the Napoleonic War till the 1990s, the joke was was every adult male was in the Army, but on leave for 11 months of the year. Thus employers were use to paying employees for days they were NOT working and the addition of paid days off for holidays was a minor additional cost.

While these countries did NOT close down on Sunday as much as the US did, they did have other protections for low income families. Back to Germany, where strong Unions AND a strong Union based party existed to fight for the rights of low income people (Surprisingly supported by the Army, for a Soldier worried about his family back home was a lousy soldier in the field, so the Army had to make sure the Soldiers knew they families were being taken care of, including making sure they could keep the housing they were in). This same concern hit the US Army during WWII and forced the US to have most cities adopt Rent Control laws so soldiers wives and children would NOT be kicked out of their home do to the loss of income of the Soldier AND the increase demand for rental homes do to the massive expansion of industrial production in the US.

I am sorry, looking at how the States are NOT willing to enforce their own Blue Laws and the inability of anyone else to have standing to do so, the best solution would be an increase in the Minimum wage for workers on those days. If employers really want those employees to work, Employers would pay and that would compensate many low income families for the lost of time in being able to interact. For those businesses where opening an extra day would cost to much, then leave them close down, most people can wait 24 hours for most items (and most people can PLAN 24 hours ahead for the items they can not get in the day the store is closed).

The US did not address paid holidays in the 1930s for the stores were CLOSED on those days thus NOT a problem. It is only since the 1970s have stores fought to be open on Sundays and Holidays. I am old enough to remember those days, yes it cause some problems, but it was a problem people did live with (I remember my father driving on US 40 from Maryland into Pennsylvania trying to find an open Gas Station on a Sunday, think about it, Gas stations NOT open 24/7 as almost all of them are now, back then some were open, most were not and all of this was the days BEFORE Self Service Gas Stations).

Yes, closing on Sunday can bring Hardship, but with self service gas stations that can be unmanned, is there a non-emergency business that we can do without for a 24 hour period? If there are a business we need, would they close down rather then pay their employees $21 an hour for work only on that day?

I am sorry, the costs of NOT having time set aside for people to interact with their fellow family members is harmful. In theory we could pick any day of the week, but Sunday would end up being the best choice for a lot of people are closed that day anyway. In Theory we could request that employers permit their employees days off with their spouses, but that requires two employers to interact for many refuse to hire spouses of present employees, and may the do permit such hiring, rarely do it for the spouse has another job with another employer. Giving an Employee the RIGHT to pick a day of the week he or she can be off, with the employer having NO power to reject that offer could provide that ability to be with your spouse and children, but is that a better solution then triple pay?

Remember, Children go to school Monday through Friday and for that reason that has remain the "Work Week" for most people. I do a lot of Custody and Visitation Work, and we end up doing every other weekend with each parent do to the need to work around the School Week. Certain high paying jobs tend NOT to be problem when the parent works on a weekend, but when it comes to low paying jobs it is often an headache for one and sometimes both parents work the weekends and thus how do you set up a visitation Schedule where both parents can interact with the children? Sunday triple pay would keep most low income people from working on Sunday and thus a good day for Visitation with the non-custodial parent. As to higher paid parents, the main reason they are higher paid is the skills or need for their services and employers are more willing to work around the needs of the higher paid employee's family then they are for lower income people (Work the weekend or be fired, and if fired for refusing to work the weekend be denied unemployment for refusing to follow an employer's rule for times of employment).

Sorry, every time I review holiday and Sunday Closings, I end up endorsing triple Minimum wage for such days. Other than that you end up with laws, like the ones on the books today, dead letters for only the State can enforce them and the State is unwilling to do so. With triple pay you have the employee wanting the extra money, and if he or she is ever terminated, they could sue for the triple pay if never paid (And the employee has the right to sue for that pay under existing law, even if still an employee AND if terminated at that point can maintain it was a retaliatory termination relating to paying the lawful minimum wage and grounds to be award damages for the unlawful termination of employment).

Travelman

(708 posts)
7. Good.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:17 PM
Oct 2014

Stay home. Eat lots of turkey. Drink beer. Watch football. It's what people are supposed to be doing on Thanksgiving.


You couldn't pay me a million dollars to go out on Thanksgiving Day for pointless Christmas shopping. That shit will still be there tomorrow (though I personally hunker down on "black Friday" like a tornado's coming and literally do not answer the door or the phone that day).

Omaha Steve

(99,613 posts)
9. I will probably gets some boos for this
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:41 PM
Oct 2014

I will work Thanksgiving Day and get double time and 1/2 for it. I will observer the day after (Black Friday) on that day. That means the last day at work before I retire (Saturday the 29th of Nov. is my last work day) I will get double time and 1/2 because Black Friday falls on my regular day off.

Cavers will say I'm bragging. Most of you know I always try to promote these benefits for ALL workers. I've been doing it on the DU for almost 10 years.

OS

Travelman

(708 posts)
16. Been there, done that
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:42 PM
Oct 2014

No "boos" here


There are some jobs that just don't get a holiday. SOMEONE has to work Thanksgiving and Christmas and the Fourth of July in the E.R., for example.

Years ago, I worked for AAA. We wound up with an official motto that I unwittingly coined: "we never close." I didn't really mean to coin it, but I was on the phone with some lady who worried that we wouldn't answer the phone when she broke down on the side of the road at 9:00 on a Sunday night. She was greatly relieved and my supervisor was just delighted with that phrase, so it kind of stuck.

Fast-forward a year or so, and I was deeply involved in the 24/365 operations, and I worked Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's, etc. We all did our level best to work with one another so that someone who had their family stuff at 11:00 wouldn't have to come in until 3:00, and someone who had their family obligations at 3:00 would be out of there before noon. On the whole, it worked pretty well. And most people actually fought for those shifts because it was double time, and particularly for Thanksgiving, it was often double overtime (i.e. time-and-a-half X 2) by the time Thursday came around. AAA treated us all pretty well, and there were a number of us who also took in "orphans" who didn't have family to go to for the holiday in question.


But the E.R. doc or the AAA dispatcher or the cop or ambulance driver or fire-fighter or whatever is a whole lot more necessary than some shirt-folder at Dillard's who isn't necessary. BUT, and it's a big "but," if someone wants to come in after turkey and collect some double-time or whatever and get a little extra Christmas spending money, then I'm not going to hold that against them in the least.

I only really have a problem with ordinary, everyday retail stores opening up at 3:00 in the afternoon on Thanksgiving Day and mandating that those people come in and work. That's pretty crappy to me. Maybe those people do Thanksgiving dinner at 5:00 in the evening (as our family did for decades) or maybe they have some family tradition of sitting around watching whatever Detroit Lions game is on or whatever. It should definitely be a choice, not a mandate. And I have a HUGE problem with the whole "date-creep" of Christmas in general. Dammit, it's not even Halloween and they have freaking Christmas trees out everywhere. STOP RUINING MY HOLIDAYS BY DRAGGING THEM OUT FOR SIX FREAKING MONTHS!

Iamthetruth

(487 posts)
35. I have worked retail my entire life
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 08:47 AM
Oct 2014

When I was younger I loved to work holidays, the pay was good and I enjoyed being around people that were in a good mood. Now in more of a corporate management role working holidays suck.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
26. I used to love working holidays when I was in high school...double time and 1/2
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 02:52 PM
Oct 2014

sometimes that ran into overtime!

bonus check!

Laffy Kat

(16,377 posts)
28. I work in a clinic that stays open most holidays.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:06 PM
Oct 2014

Many of the workers bid for holidays just for the extra pay. Those that don't want to work will happily give up their shift to those who do. It's a win-win for some.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
30. I have no problem with people being paid HIGH wages to work that day
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 03:19 PM
Oct 2014

My problem are people working at minimum wage or slightly higher who have to work that day. Above I mention my proposal for minimum wage be three times the regular minimum wage on those holidays (and I also include Sunday for we have to think about such low wage people more then twice a year). That would relive my concerns about people being forced to work instead of being with their families that day.

As to people being paid WELL to work on that day, I have little objections for such people also tend to have a secure job so they CAN GET the time to spend time with their families when it the best time to interact with their family members.

sheshe2

(83,750 posts)
10. Bravo to these companies!
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 10:41 PM
Oct 2014

I am in retail, and no my company does not open on Thanksgiving. No company should.

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
17. Good there are stores staying closed. I will be shopping at stores that stay closed on Thanksgiving.
Thu Oct 23, 2014, 11:49 PM
Oct 2014

The stores that open on that holiday loose my business. My holiday shopping will be at Dillard's (a five + hour round trip) and my local independent bookstore. Good for all those stores for closing on Thanksgiving.

Glad there are still a few stores with management that has an iota of common sense.

Target lost most of my business after their anti LGBT stance came to light. I live in an area with very limited shopping choices. Since Target started opening for Thanksgiving, I have made sure to avoid them. Their management must be 100% chuckleheads. Walked through a Target looking for a specific item which I could not find in other store and the lack of merchandise along with the poor quality of what they did stock was shocking. Target will soon be going out of business, unless they have a drastic change very quickly.

cstanleytech

(26,287 posts)
18. Publix is also closed on Thanksgiving which is very decent of them unlike alot of
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:00 AM
Oct 2014

their competition in my area like Bi-Lo which doesnt care about its employees.

mopinko

(70,090 posts)
19. the truly stupid thing is that they are chasing the same amount of dollars.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:03 AM
Oct 2014

there wont be any extra money in consumers pockets because these dopes are out fishing for it for one more day.
they should look up the word "finite" and realize all they are doing is increasing their costs chasing a finite amount of money.

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
24. They open earlier each year to be the first ones to grab that finite amount of money
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:25 AM
Oct 2014

They want to get it from your wallet before the other guy can.

The profits come from taking it from someone else. And the employees and their families of those retail monsters all have to suffer.



iandhr

(6,852 posts)
20. The stores that do this...
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:14 AM
Oct 2014

…. will get good press and it will be good for business in the long run. There are lot people who would like to shop at places that treat there employees well.

CBHagman

(16,984 posts)
21. Sanity: It's not just a good idea.
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:34 AM
Oct 2014

Seriously, I have worked retail, and even once was employed by a store that did not close for Thanksgiving even when everyone else did, and I think it's obscene to open early on Black Friday, let alone on Thanksgiving itself.

Small Business Saturday, though, I like.

diabeticman

(3,121 posts)
22. My wife thinks there was a huge backlash from last year stunt and she thinks a lot more stores will
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 12:39 AM
Oct 2014

remain close...BUT she thinks American Girl was closed last year as well.

llmart

(15,536 posts)
34. The fact that this is even a news headline makes me sad...
Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:02 PM
Oct 2014

like it's a wonderful thing they're doing not making their employees work on Thanksgiving. It wasn't really that long ago that no stores were open on Thanksgiving, but now it's an anomaly.

BKH70041

(961 posts)
36. I thought Thanksgiving was that evil holiday...
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 09:09 AM
Oct 2014

... that celebrated those nasty, religious fundy, white Europeans using, stealing from, and eventually killing the peaceful Natives, and why should we be celebrating THAT!?!

Damn, this site can be confusing.

 

whistler162

(11,155 posts)
37. Well that is nice.....
Sat Oct 25, 2014, 10:23 AM
Oct 2014

Now how many go out to eat on Thanksgiving? My mother and I go to a local restaurant that has two or three serving times during the day and then close down so the staff can go to dinner/home. Easy for us and profitable for the staff, tips etal..

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