Judge rejects Ebola quarantine for nurse

[missingthebigdog]

Source: Yahoo (AP)

FORT KENT, Maine (AP) — A Maine judge has rejected a bid by state health officials to restrict the movement of nurse Kaci Hickox, who defied a quarantine for medical workers who have treated Ebola patients.

Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere ruled Friday that she should continue daily monitoring and coordinate travel with state officials so monitoring can continue. But, because she's not showing symptoms, the judge says she's not infectious.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/life-goes-nurse-standoff-over-ebola-053514854.html

---

One small step for civil liberties!

[notrightatall]

1. And so it goes......

A big win for sanity!!


Gov. Ebola can go f himself.

[missingthebigdog]

2. It's always such a relief when logic and reason trumps fear and panic.

Seems so rare these days. . . .

[notrightatall]

3. All too rare......

[Warpy]

53. Thank goodness somebody in Maine can read (besides the nurse)

Kudos to the judge for knowing what's going on.

[jopacaco]

62. No need to trash all Mainers here

This fool of a governor got elected with just over a third of the votes in a 3 way election. Most of us here are literate and sane.
(Now I may have a different opinion if this fool manages to get re-elected on Tuesday).

[heaven05]

4. excellent

[democrank]

5. K & R

Rachel Maddow did an enlightening Ebola segment last night.

[malthaussen]

6. Well, that's useful.

Now, is the Guv going to appeal? I wouldn't put it past him, but I dunno if this kind of ruling can be appealed.

-- Mal

[Scairp]

48. He is such a tool

Who knows with that guy. Good for the judge though. It's nice to see common sense and reason win out.

[Voice for Peace]

7. excellent, a judge who believes in science!

難以置信 <-- I think that says "incredible" in Chinese

[dlwickham]

12. actually it says

your mother smells of elderberries and your father is a hamster, or vice versa

[Voice for Peace]

16. LOL

難以置信

According to Google it is Chinese for "incredible" and I
tried it in reverse as well.

[riqster]

26. To be fair, having a hamster for a mother would be incredible.

[Voice for Peace]

65. especially if you are a baby hamster, it would be wonderful.

[sarge43]

8. Gee, common sense

Who da thought.

[Eridenus]

9. Politics should NEVER trump fact-based science.

I'm sick of hearing the same old shit.

Flu is even more dangerous than Ebola, for crissake. That's why I got my shot last Friday.

I suggest you do the same, and worry the least about Ebola. The nurse knew the risk and I just read about a Stanford doctor willing to self-quarantine after his deployment. That is his choice, and of course, Stanford will cover his salary (based what I've read).

I'm glad the judge lifted the order - he did the right thing.

When she becomes symptomatic (which I highly doubt), she will go where she needs to go.

[missingthebigdog]

13. It has been very disheartening to read the threads here on this matter.

DU has a substantial number of members who seem to feel that infringing on someone's civil rights is absolutely fine if we happen to be afraid or a little uncomfortable.

It doesn't seem to matter that there is no science to support them- their argument seems to be that there is not 100% conclusive proof that they are wrong, so, for the sake of safety, we should just assume they are right.

I hope that this decision persuades them otherwise, but am not holding my breath.

This nurse is a hero for what she has done for Ebola patients and for what she has done to defend the civil rights of Americans. It would have been easy enough to just stay home for a few weeks. and not fight this fight. She has my admiration and respect.

[Jazzgirl]

22. Please...... Don't hold your breath!

i find it very discouraging to see many so called "progressives" echoing the same crap repuke claim. Lots of trolls here now.

[cynzke]

56. Sort of like.....

Hang her, she's a witch feeling/hysteria that took over settlers in Massachusetts.

[ReRe]

10. This whole issue is nothing but a...

... war between science and ignorance. Just heard someone on Ronan Farrow's show say that what we really have is an epidemic of fear.
I'll go him one better: What we have here is an epidemic of ignorance.

[dlwickham]

11. thank goodness

[Renew Deal]

14. I knew a guy by the same name as the judge.

He was a huge Iron Maiden fan. It can't possibly be the same person.

[MNBrewer]

15. OH?

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/31/health/us-ebola/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[notrightatall]

17. OH. what??

[MNBrewer]

18. Dueling headlines? "Ebola update: Maine judge orders quarantine for nurse Kaci Hickox"

[notrightatall]

21. Read your own link .

[LeftInTX]

28. The quarantine order was only for one day

I think it was so the judge would have time to review the case and issue a decision.

I agree it is confusing. The media apparently was slow to pick up on the quarantine order. Shortly after they did, the judge issued his decision.

[notrightatall]

33. It "stood" for less than 3 hours.

[FiveGoodMen]

58. It says rejects, not orders

Ebola update: Maine judge rejects quarantine for nurse Kaci Hickox

[missingthebigdog]

20. From your link:

A Maine judge on Friday ruled that state health officials failed to prove the need for an order enforcing an Ebola quarantine for a nurse who defied the quarantine in a tense standoff with state authorities. (emphasis added)

To be fair, CNN has apparently not changed the headline from their article published last night, and this is an update.

[TM99]

19. This is actually a step in the right direction.

She must submit to "direct active monitoring," coordinate travel with public health officials, and immediately notify health authorities should symptoms appear.

This is a step up from the simplistic idea that a health professional is somehow 'special' and can just self-monitor only while carrying on whatever public activities they so choose.

[Fred Sanders]

51. It is exactly what she had already agreed to, it is a total win for Hickox, believe what you like.

T"he order hands a win to the Kaci Hickox in her high-profile battle with state officials. She said in a press conference outside her house: "I am very satisfied with the decision. ... I will continue to be compliant. And yes, it's just a good, a good day."

Maine Gov. Paul LePage issued a statement saying they would abide by the law.'

Ebola governors 0. Kaci Hickox, R.N., M.P.H, 2.

[Scairp]

57. Where have you been?

She's already doing that. State officials with CDC have been to her house every day since she got home. He only reinforced the fact that the virus is not transmittable by someone NOT exhibiting symptoms and told her to do what she is doing. She has been home six days so if she were going to get sick she will know probably by Monday. Fingers crossed for her that she doesn't.

[magical thyme]

71. iow, he ordered her to keep doing what she was already doing.

She was already following CDC recommendations, which is what the judge ordered her to do.

And in fact, in the discussions that "broke down" she had offered to do *more* than what the judge ultimately ruled.

But yeah, keep trying to smear the nurse and paint it like a victory for the teabagger who is politicizing a public health issue for the election.

[TM99]

72. She was following the self-monitoring guidelines.

The new CDC ones, as of 10/27, are broken down into levels. I already posted that link. Self-monitoring IS NOT direct active monitoring. You know that, right?

I don't have to smear this nurse. She has done a bang up job all by herself.

[magical thyme]

73. she agreed to follow the CDC guidelines all along

if they changed their guidelines, then she's agreeing to their new guidelines.

Your link downthread doesn't work.

"She has claimed that she should be exempt from anything except the most basic of self-monitoring. She can go where she pleases, when she pleases, and if she gets sick, then she will deal with it. She is zero risk in her mind."

Link to those claims?

[TM99]

74. Every fucking news report

and her own words.

Look it up yourself. I am done catering to those with myopic minds and attitudes.

[magical thyme]

75. you made the claim. it's up to you to back it up.

I live in Maine and am a healthcare worker. I have read extensively on the outbreak since it's beginning, and being a Mainer, especially followed those articles regarding Kaci Hickox's incarceration.

I've also followed the bombastic teapartier's politicization of Ebola from the moment he made his big announcement re: the negative test for the suspicious patient who was treated in my hospital system a few weeks back.

He tried to score political points off an MSF volunteer and simultaneously bail out his teapartier friend, Crispe Creme. They both ended up with egg on their faces.


Myopic mind?

Good day to you to.

[mythology]

23. Good

The facts should win out.

[SCVDem]

24. 400 years ago

The frightened citizens would have burned her at the stake!

Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong!

America hasn't changed a bit. Land of the free and home of the brave my ass!

[7962]

32. Well, staying home isnt on the level with burned at the stake!

I think what the Pres did the other day was a good shot. Read my post below.

[malthaussen]

59. No, they would not have done.

They would have been afraid of contracting the disease. What they would have done is wall her up in her house and set fire to it.

-- Mal

[MontyPow]

25. I love it when reason triumphs!

[Gothmog]

27. Why did Maine take this to court

This case was a loser

[missingthebigdog]

29. I agree, but I don't think that was the consensus here.

I've read WAY too many posts over the past several days attacking this woman, and insisting that quarantine was necessary and appropriate.

[Android3.14]

36. lepage is in a losing election battle and is grasping at straws

This was the Hail Mary Pass.

[Travis_0004]

30. Obama should invite her to the whitehouse to show there is no danger.

I think it would help aleivate some fears.

[7962]

31. Pres Obama standing with doctors recently back from Africa said a lot.

News people kept saying the "21 days" hadnt gone by yet, was the president taking a risk, etc. To me it showed him backing up what he thought was right. The old saying, put your money where your mouth is. Well, by standing with these doctors, Obama did just that.
I remember years ago a problem with the local water supply was cleared up and the head of the water dept standing on TV and filling up a glass from the tap and drinking it, to show everyone that the water really WAS safe to drink.

[Fred Sanders]

52. And the mass media almost totally ignored it, you notice that? Fucking media, they hate being

pointed at as the trolls they have become.

[Shadowflash]

34. And reality steps in.

[uppityperson]

35. EXCELLENT! Thank you for the article and thank you Judge.

"people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely rational."

[TM99]

38. Finish the whole quote, please.

While many people were acting out of fear that is not entirely rational when it comes to the deadly Ebola outbreak, the judge said that fear was present and real.

The actions of Hickox, as a health professional, "need to demonstrate her full understanding of human nature and the real fear that exist," LaVerdiere wrote. "She should guide herself accordingly."

This is being spun as a total victory for Hickox. It is not. She has claimed that she should be exempt from anything except the most basic of self-monitoring. She can go where she pleases, when she pleases, and if she gets sick, then she will deal with it. She is zero risk in her mind.

The State of Maine wanted a strict isolation-style quarantine in her home because they believe the risk is higher.

The judge denied that, and yet still put stricter requirements on her than what she has said she would tolerate. The new CDC guidelines from 10/27 speak to this new reality - http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/fs1027-monitoring-symptoms-controlling-movement.html.

The judge considers her actions to fall into the 'some' to 'high' risk category as his requirements for her follow that level of CDC recommendations not the 'no' to 'low risk' status categories.

She must submit to direct active monitoring and she must notify officials of any travel plans. I applaud the ruling as it strikes a good balance between her belief that she is zero risk and the reality that until the 21 day incubation period passes, due to her work in Africa, she is some risk or even high risk.

"She should guide herself accordingly" I repeat. She has not until now, and today she is being required to do so.

[rocktivity]

45. She has been following the CDC guidelines and has never refused to.

Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2020, 12:52 PM - Edit history (3)

The latest recommendations are here:
http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/fs1027-monitoring-symptoms-controlling-movement.pdf

What's she's refused to do is follow the guidelines that Christie and LePage were making up as they went along!


rocktivity

[Fred Sanders]

66. Now the fear crowd are resorting to misinformation to cling to their debunked positions?

[Android3.14]

37. It's the home paper in Fort Kent & requires a subscription, but the local folks knew what was what

State fails to convince court to force Hickox to follow guidelines she is already following

FORT KENT – Maine Governor Paul LePage failed to convince Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere Friday, October 31, that Kaci Hickox must follow U.S. Center for Disease Control guidelines, which other experts say she is already following.

Fort Kent Police Chief Tom Pelletier spoke with Hickox this morning, and told reporters they just had a conversation, and that he was not arresting Hickox or her boyfriend, Ted Wilbur.

More local coverage headlines and ledes at the link.

There's also a poll on the right-hand side of the page you can vote on - Does public fear trump a person's Constitutional rights?

[vlakitti]

39. Yeah, this is the money quote from the AP article:

"The court is fully aware of the misconceptions, misinformation, bad
science and bad information being spread from shore to shore in our
country with respect to Ebola," he wrote. "The court is fully aware
that people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not entirely
rational."

So the Judge is not only clued in on the science issue but the stupid and lying misinformation campaigns out these.

As for the nurse Kaci Hickox, this is total vindication and a triumph over three lousy and pandering governors, AND a real victory for civil liberties.

[TM99]

41. Yes, I like the rest of quote better which gives

the full context of his ruling:

The judge said that fear was present and real.

The actions of Hickox, as a health professional, "need to demonstrate her full understanding of human nature and the real fear that exist," LaVerdiere wrote. "She should guide herself accordingly."

[vlakitti]

46. You are taking the quote out of context

The judge was not criticizing the nurse, not at all.

"In a case that has come to define the clash between personal freedom
and fear of disease, Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere ruled Hickox must
continue daily monitoring and cooperate with health officials if she
chooses to travel. The judge said there's no need to restrict her
movements because she's not showing symptoms of Ebola.

"In his ruling, the judge thanked Hickox for her service in Africa and
wrote that "people are acting out of fear and that this fear is not
entirely rational.""

That's exactly the protocol she's been following. Do you think she's utterly irresponsible? She knows all about Ebola, and the turkey governors she's defied don't.

And she's a champion for civil liberties.

[Live and Learn]

47. Notice the judge didn't say the fear was justified.

Don't let your unjustified fears ruin other people's lives.

[TM99]

60. Oh, for fuck's sake!

I am not scared of Ebola. I do recognize that the public at large is. He said she has a responsibility. Period.

[Live and Learn]

61. Sorry but your post seemed to justify the public's fear even though it

is not real. Why does she have a "responsibility" to acquiesce to others irrational fears?

[TM99]

63. Fear is real.

The realities behind it often are not. Education not brow beating and bleating on about 'science wins' is how the fearful become un-fearful.

Public health policy is the balance between science, politics, and social psychology.

Look to the actions of Dr. Dahn for elucidation of this.

[notrightatall]

76. This is all that can be said to you:

[TM99]

78. Don't quit your day job.

Your mind reading sucks.

[yellowcanine]

40. Reason and Science prevail, at least in Maine.

Now I would like to see someone challenge N.J. and Krispy Kritter in court on whether he can detain air passengers landing in N.J. when they are not showing symptoms and have tested negative for Ebola.

[rocktivity]

43. At the very least, Christie should be requring that above-normal forehead scanner readings

be confirmed with an oral thermometer reading at the airports, as Nurse Hickcox has taught us that the forehead scanners are not reliable.

Of course, if Christie really wanted to protect the people of New Jersey, he would have required that anyone wishing to travel from an Ebola-affected country wait 21 days and pass a blood test -- even if it meant cutting into his Port Authority's airline ticket income.


rocktivity

[yellowcanine]

44. Christie doesn't care about no steenkin oral thermometer reading.

He's a doctor. He knows when someone is sick.

[KMOD]

49. Christie is obviously ill.

[Enthusiast]

42. Kicked and recommended!

[diabeticman]

50. YES!!! some common sense!

[Louisiana1976]

54. I'm happy this judge ruled as he did. Because as long as she's healthy Hickox shouldn't have to be

quarantined.

[NutmegYankee]

55. WOOHOO! A win for SCIENCE and Civil Liberties.

[ashling]

64. Judge couldn't see

he was blinded by science!

[Fred Sanders]

67. He saw that people were blinded by fear, science illuminated the fear. The fear is real, it is wrong

but unfortunately is the human condition generated by the media and must be grudgingly accepted.

Too hard for some to grasp, I guess.

[Chemisse]

68. The fear mongers should be embarrassed by the courage this woman has exhibited.

Not only has she stood up to two governors and braved the fear and wrath of strangers, she has actually been with Ebola patients and treated them. And she comes back to the US to find the rest of us scared of our shadows - terrified to have someone among us who is not sick, not contagious, but could possibly get the disease at some point in the next few weeks.

And what's even more ludicrous is the public panic over a virus that is proving to be a lot less deadly when faced with modern health care - such as IV fluids. So far, Duncan is the only victim who died; he is also the only one who didn't get medical care early in the course of the disease.

[uppityperson]

69. Still makes me happy this happened. One small step for civil liberties.

[AtheistCrusader]

70. They should send the bill for all court related costs to Chris Christie's happy ass.

C.O.D. motherfucker.

[Orsino]

77. We demand due process.

Until condemned by a qualified witch-smeller, this so-called nurse should mind her tongue.