Virgin Galactic spacecraft crash kills one

[Bosonic]

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2014, 05:47 PM - Edit history (4)

Source: BBC

At least one person is dead and another injured after Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo space tourism craft crashed in the California desert.

The craft was flying a manned test when it experienced what the company described as "a serious anomaly".

It was undergoing its first powered test flight since January over the Mojave Desert, north of Los Angeles.

Virgin Group founder Sir Richard Branson tweeted he was flying to California "to be with the team". "Thoughts with all @virgingalactic & Scaled, thanks for all your messages of support," Sir Richard said.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29857182

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Virgin Galactic's SpaceShipTwo Crashes During Flight Test

Virgin Galactic said its SpaceShipTwo rocket plane suffered a "serious anomaly" during a powered test flight on Friday that resulted in the loss of the aircraft.

The anomaly occurred after the plane was released from its WhiteKnightTwo carrier airplane and fired up its rocket engine in flight for the first time in more than nine months. Sources said SpaceShipTwo exploded in midflight, and debris fell onto California's Mojave Desert.

"The WhiteKnightTwo carrier aircraft landed safely," Virgin Galactic said in a statement. "Our first concern is the status of the pilots, which is unknown at this time."

Two pilots, equipped with parachutes, fly in SpaceShipTwo's cockpit during SpaceShipTwo's test flights, which originate from the Mojave Air and Space Port, about 95 miles (150 kilometers) north of Los Angeles. A source at the Kern County Sheriff's Department told NBC News that two parachutes were deployed after the anomaly.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/virgin-galactics-spaceshiptwo-crashes-during-flight-test-n238376

[FLPanhandle]

1. I hope the test pilots are okay

High powered rockets are never going to 100% safe.

[notadmblnd]

27. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that jets are used to launch this spacecraft not rockets

nt

[BlueEye]

35. The aircraft is carried up to the same altitude that commercial jets fly at by a turbine (jet)...

powered carrier aircraft. At that point, the rocket powered part of the aircraft is released and aims itself skyward to begin its journey to sub-orbit. So it's both forms of propulsion. Not necessarily a new concept either. The Air Force did this with the X-15 back in the '60s.

[notadmblnd]

36. ok, thanks for the correction.

[bananas]

33. 1 dead, 1 injured

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/virgin-atlantic-spaceship-in-flight-problem

[Plucketeer]

59. There were the SAME flavor of comments

from folks who saw the Wrights put on demonstrations of their tame, cotton-covered, cutting edge vehicle. In fact, an early passenger (A military man) died when one of the Wright's experienced a loss of control.

[notrightatall]

2. Private sector space flight. Maybe not a good idea???

Let's get back to funding NASA as we should.

[randys1]

3. Agree, but any activity that shows we are not complete moron assholes like teaparty

makes me happy

too bad this didnt work

[FLPanhandle]

4. NASA rockets & components have always been built by private industry

We've never had big NASA manufacturing plants.

[notrightatall]

5. But "not for profit" oversight and planning. BIG difference.

Space exploration and health care are two areas that should not be hamstrung by a profit motive. These are the things that a government should do.

[Renew Deal]

11. Shouldn't the private sector do Space as well?

Eventually travelling to space will be like flying across the country. NASA will not do that.

[notrightatall]

13. Seems not quite yet.

"eventually"? maybe.

[PatrickforO]

19. Let's add prisons to that list, as well, notrightatall. Then you'll be right :)

[dbackjon]

20. And utilities, especially water

[notrightatall]

34. No doubt

[FLPanhandle]

31. Disagree.

Frankly, if a economic model was applied to the Space Shuttle, it never would have been built. Single use rockets are far more effective and less costly to launch satellites.

NASA could have focused on that and remote exploring vehicles and a smaller space station supply shuttle or single use vehicle.

I love the space program and NASA should be funded far more than it currently is, however I'm well aware of NASA's limitations.

[George II]

8. But they were overseen by NASA engineers and were built to NASA approved specifications

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

24. Plus NASA had much more money to pretest this stuff

And they had MANY failures on land and in the air (remember Apollo 1), before the got things right.

[FLPanhandle]

28. Just like Apollo One was.

Wasn't that overseen by NASA engineers and built to NASA standards?

Bottom line: It's always going to be a bit dangerous when dealing with high thrust rockets and space.

This isn't a vindication or condemnation of one approach or another. It demonstrates that it's always going to be risky.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

43. You know what Gus Grissom did?

He hung cardboard grapefruit around the launch capsule of Apollo One, meaning it was a "big lemon".

And he paid for it with his life.

Yeah, I remember Apollo One burning up on the pad due to the pure O2 environment. Stupid, stupid, stupid.....

[LibDemAlways]

6. Agreed. And perhaps if corporate America

wasn't so anxious to lay off experienced engineers the results just might be better.

[notrightatall]

7. "But they can do it cheaper"!!!

No, it would seem they cannot.

[LibDemAlways]

32. My aerospace engineer husband was laid off 5 years

ago at age 59. He attended several engineering job fairs in which he was told outright that the companies were only looking for new college grads. Nothing wrong with being a new college grad except that you need the wisdom and help of the older, seasoned people. This is what happens when they're gone.

[daleo]

46. New college grads

From what country?

[LibDemAlways]

48. Aerospace is really the last bastion for American

engineers since so many programs are classified and require US citizenship and security clearances. If not for those requirements, all US born engineers looking for steady work at a decent wage would be up shit creek.

[Renew Deal]

9. They crash these things with their own money

Any contribution to space science is positive.

[Dont call me Shirley]

53. But the New Mexico taxpayers pick up the tab for the already built Spaceport

http://spaceportamerica.com/

[Gloria]

78. Not ALL NM is paying...

only those in the poorest counties...the vote was "close" ...the big push came from the powers that be. The PR was relentless.
Richardson held a meeting for parents in a school to plug the huge benefits of this boondoggle for "education"...and the public was
BARRED from attending! I think the results were rigged, esp. after the public was barred from that meeting.

There have been some efforts to make this a statewide responsiblity, but so far, no success. Dona Ana, Sierra counties are poor counties, and get we are paying the extra tax so that rich people can take a ride...

I'm so fed up with "help" for businesses...if you're a capitalist, raise your money and do it, without welfare $$ from people who don't have it.
Just before the crash, the push has been for funding for a more direct road to this thing...a TON of $...

The money put into this thing could have fed and clothed a lot of poor kids...yes, we've already had our annual "Coats for Kids" charity campaign to try to get kids winter coats...

It's a damned shame!!!

[Dont call me Shirley]

79. It is such a damned shame.

I have heard that Branson has already pulled out because of political nastiness of guv. This certainly is being kept out of msm, the guv would not be reelected if this came out.

It's time for redistribution of wealth and resources, equality for all!

[Gloria]

81. Parts of the El Camino Real obliterated because of this thing....

That ridiculous "spaceport" also messed up part of the El Camino Real "the official "Road from Spain" bringing the first colonists to the region beginning in 1598 -- 22 years before the Mayflower."

I know someone who was filming the sections that were going to be destroyed by this thing...

As for Branson having already pulled out...haven't heard that one...yet...Branson still says he's going to go up...

We'll see what unfolds...

[pangaia]

10. I agree about NASA, but,

these guys are really, really good.

[notrightatall]

12. so it seems

[Psephos]

14. Who do you think builds NASA's hardware?

Hint: it isn't NASA.

[notrightatall]

15. No shit......

But if you take the profit motive out of project management, you will get better results.
Does it cost more??? you bet your ass it does.

[philosslayer]

22. Do you not think that the companies...

That built the devices that sent man to the moon made a profit?

[zipplewrath]

29. It's HOW they make it

NASA/Government contracting requires you to explain the costs of everything, and then the profit is negotiated up front. Even for "firm fixed price" the profit is a know, negotiated element. Deviations too large can trigger an audit. A private entity like this can "keep" any profit from any corner cut. Furthermore, every decision is connected to the potential profit/loss possibility.

I know some of the guys still working tests over at the Cape. The private companies (Space X, Orbital, etc.) are doing WAY less ground testing than NASA required.

[AtheistCrusader]

65. Tell it to the hulls of Columbia and Challenger at your local museum.

Oh wait, you can't because they were blown to shit with all hands aboard.

"Better results"

[BlueEye]

38. To be fair,

Virgin Galactic does NOT represent a privatization of any NASA activities whatsoever. It is a space tourism venture, privately founded and funded. I wish them success and I would love to fly on one of their rockets someday, just as I fly commercially (albiet inside the Earth's atmosphere) all the time.

[cbdo2007]

39. NASA never caused any deaths??

[former9thward]

49. NASA killed 17 astronauts.

Nobody has clean hands.

[Travelman]

51. Lots and lots of test pilots died ultimately getting us to the moon.

We lost three astronauts in Apollo 1, but before that, we had all sorts of higher- and faster-flying aircraft, and a bunch of pilots died testing those things, pushing them to the limits.

And the Soviet Union lost quite a few, too.



The real lesson to be learned here is that going to space is still a very dangerous venture at this point, regardless of who is footing the bill or why.

[Historic NY]

54. Private sector is what built NASA....

[AtheistCrusader]

64. One accident and you want to cut and run?

I missed the part where it was ANYONE but VG/Branson, the team, and the board/investors decision to pursue this project.

[Kurska]

69. I'm absolutely for funding NASA better

But it is ridiculous to think the private sector shouldn't have an interest in space flight.

8% of all the spacefarers in history have died in their attempt. If you run a space program of any kind that does manned flight, it is a sad fact that eventually someone is probably going to die. If it was simple and safe we'd be doing it all the time by now.

[Xithras]

80. Roughly 10% of all launches are failures.

Those numbers drop to around 6% if you ignore the pre-1975 launches and only look at more current space vehicles, but the numbers still reveal the same truth. Space is HARD, and vehicles will fail no matter WHO is building them. It's rocket science, after all.

Just in case you want to run the numbers yourself: http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/logsum.html

[dembotoz]

16. bad week

let us hope development continues

[Historic NY]

56. Perhaps, but go back and read what was written....

hundreds of times in the past from before the Wright Bros to modern times man's quest to fly has been a bumpy path. Lots of air bases and testing sites named for dead pilots who dared. They will pick up the pieces, examine them, find the mistake and go on. Its what they do.

[GGJohn]

17. CHP reporting one dead, one seriously injured.

[mockmonkey]

18. SpaceShipTwo Flight test from 01/10/14 (video)

This gives you some idea of how the flight is done. SpaceShipTwo is in the Center part of the WhiteKnightTwo carrier plane until it disengages and flies on it's own.

WhiteKnightTwo landed safely according to the NBCNEWS link.

[PatrickforO]

21. The idea the private sector can do everything better, faster and cheaper is nothing but a sad

MYTH.

Too bad so many otherwise intelligent people fall for that neoliberal crap.

[groundloop]

25. I'm feeling this isn't a great time to bring political ideology into this discussion

There are many of us who have been following this program closely for a long time, some of us have known people who have worked on this program. I'm feeling somewhat devastated by this news and would prefer to hold off on the fingerpointing etc. Furthermore, space tourism is one area that NASA never has and never will be involved in.

[Jerry442]

41. Agreed. We should never, ever become indifferent to these tragedies...

...but we shouldn't be in denial and pretend that there was a time of mythical perfection when they didn't happen.

A good time to go back and re-read Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff.

[daleo]

47. Discussing safety after a disaster makes perfect sense

The idea of waiting for a decent interval of time just means the public will forget about it.

[PatrickforO]

62. Exactly! That's the strategy used by the NRA for sure.

In the face of horrible gun tragedies such as Columbine, Arapahoe High School, the theater in Aurora, someone always says, "Well, now's not the time to talk about it, because here we've had this tragedy," but you know what? Daleo is quite right when s/he points out that the actual thinking behind this meme is to put a sufficient time interval between the tragedy and the 'permission' to talk about it so that hopefully the public will forget.

My comment still stands though, with all due respect, and of course with condolences to the families of those killed. There simply are things the private sector shouldn't be doing.

[AtheistCrusader]

68. The private sector BUILT the fucking space shuttle program, you know.

The problems that led to its destruction, were built by NASA itself. Not by the private sector.

NASA management pressured Thiokol into green-lighting the cold-weather launch of Challenger. Thiokol's only crime was caving to NASA's pressure.

NASA managers limited the investigation into foam shedding damage, which destroyed Columbia.

[AtheistCrusader]

66. You have no idea what happened, why, and at the moment, one of the two test pilots is alive.

How many survived Challenger flight STS-51-L?
How many survived Columbia flight STS-107?

Hint, you don't need any fingers at all to count that high.

[groundloop]

23. BBC is reporting one dead and one injured

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29857182


Damn this sucks. I've met some of the people who worked on that program. Purely speculation, but I suspect this will kill the project.

[pinto]

26. Watching the reports. Apparently, engine failure on the test flight. Subsequent explosion in flight.

[diabeticman]

30. Please note : My wife's and my thoughts are with the families and the suriving pilot BUT

My wife's belief is that NASA should have never been commercialize. YES, she realizes rich millionaires money can help with creating and innovative in the now disbanded space program... And if this was still being tested by NASA this terrible outcome might have happened for NASA...BUt you put this accident together with the rocket ship that exploded a few days back. ( the rocket did have supplies for the space station.) It just doesn't make sense.

What should have happen was Virgin and other sponsors for this space tourism should have PARTNERED with NASA. Kept NASA as it was but let these billionaires use there money to update and maybe build a space shuttle fleet. One or two could have been set aside for "space tourism" so these guys could make the money they dream of BUT let NASA did what it did best ( Yes, it wasn't perfect. Yes, you had Challenger and Columbia accidents but on a whole )

[bananas]

42. This was a suborbital craft and not part of commercial crew

It couldn't replace the shuttle or Soyuz, it wasn't intended to ever reach orbit.

[jakeXT]

37. I wonder how Paris Hilton, Katy Parry & Co. feel now

19. The Pioneer Flights (101-500) passengers who deposited at least 100 000 USD __) Paris Hilton (USA) __) Tom Hanks (USA): Actor __) Angelina Jolie (Canada): Actress __) Brad Pitt (USA): Actor __) Michael Schumacher (Germany): Formular 1 Pilot #Ref __) Marc Hagle (USA): CEP Tricor International #Ref __) Sharon Hagle (USA) #Ref __) Vesa Heilala (Finland): #Ref __) Piers Linney (UK): CEO Outsourcery #Ref __) NASA #Ref : Booked three flights on Spaceship 2 SS2 #Ref __) Tom Cruise #Ref __) Justin Bieber #Ref __) Scooter Braun (Manager of Justin Bieber) #Ref __) Katy Parry (USA), #Ref

www.slideshare.net/ppalme/astronaut-passenger-list-spaceship-two-virgin-galactic

[Bosonic]

40. Michael Schumacher shouldn't push his luck

[LeftInTX]

44. It could have ended our Justin Bieber problem

This is total

[FLPanhandle]

60. LOL

Yes, I'm going to hell, but that made me laugh.

[Ex Lurker]

55. If I had the money, I would still go

Many things worth doing in life are hazardous.

[AtheistCrusader]

67. I would go as well.

Death could take me doing something as mundane as crossing the fucking street.

If I gotta go, and I go doing something like riding a rocket into the blue, I'll go with a smile on my face.

[Codeine]

75. If I had that kind of money I'd put my deposit down in a heartbeat.

We put our lives on the line every time we hop on the freeway for our morning commute or a weekend trip to the mall. I'd gladly accept a level of risk in order to experience the edge of space.

[hunter]

45. This is sad and not a public vs. private situation.

Rockets are not easy.

When they go wrong, they can go really really wrong.

[Baclava]

50. "a serious anomaly" = back to the drawing board... RIP to the test pilot

more bumps in the road to the stars

[flamingdem]

52. They won't give up as long as

Branson can afford to keep trying.

[Blue_Tires]

57. Branson is definitely committed to success

he'll have to be, since this tragedy will reset his project at least a few years...

[Baclava]

61. Analysis: David Shukman, BBC science editor - 'Massive Setback'

Even as details emerge of what went wrong, this is clearly a massive setback to a company hoping to pioneer a new industry of space tourism. Confidence is everything and this will not encourage the long list of celebrity and millionaire customers waiting for their first flight.

An innovative design for a spacecraft combined with a new type of rocket motor to make the development challenge exceptionally hard. Despite an endless series of delays to its spacecraft, Virgin Galactic has over the years managed to maintain some very optimistic public relations and positive media coverage.



I interviewed Sir Richard Branson when he first announced the venture and his enthusiasm and determination were undoubted. But his most recent promises of launching the first passenger trip by the end of this year had already started to look unrealistic some months ago.

Today's accident will delay plans even further. Space is never easy, and making it routine is even harder.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29857182

[Baclava]

58. Richard Branson, the billionaire founder of Virgin Galactic, sent out a message on Twitter on Friday

Richard Branson, Science Community React to Virgin Galactic Crash

Thoughts with all @virgingalactic & Scaled, thanks for all your messages of support. I'm flying to Mojave immediately to be with the team. @richardbranson

"My heart and prayers go out to the pilots of SpaceShipTwo and their families," Kevin McCarthy, who represents the Congressional district where SpaceShipTwo crashed, said in a statement. "Their courage and bravery to embark on missions that will lead towards expanding man's reach into space exemplify the ingenuity and imagination of America."

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/virgin-voyage/richard-branson-science-community-react-virgin-galactic-crash-n238706

[True Blue Door]

63. It's fucked up b/c VG isn't serious about spaceflight.

They risk their pilots for infrequent small-scale stunt flights that never go to space - just as busywork - but they haven't moved forward in years. It's all just advertising for the Virgin Group, so they barely ever fly to avoid the risks of flying, but ironically that makes flying even riskier because they never fly often enough to develop reliable rocket engines.

[joshcryer]

70. Joel Glenn Brenner basically summed it up:

Many others have reported the same, Parabolic Arc had some damning tweets: https://twitter.com/spacecom

@SpaceShipTwo @VirginGalactic Plastic/nitrous engine had a hard start on the test stand in May 2013, 3 weeks after first SS2 powered flight.

The engine blew apart, the rocket casing and nozzle ended up on the desert floor far from the test stand. #SpaceShipTwo @virgingalactic

It's too early to say exactly what happened today, but it's possible based on what we saw the engine suffered a hard start. #SpaceShipTwo

I have unpublished photos of the aftermath of the May 2013 test stand accident. I will likely post those when I can. #SpaceShipTwo

I had deep concerns over both the new plastic/nitrous oxide engine and so did other sources familiar with the testing. #SpaceShipTwo

The concerns were three fold. One, that it wasn't being tested sufficiently on the ground before it was flown. #SpaceShipTwo

Second: that modifications required to ship to accommodate the new engine introduced additional complexity and failure modes. #SpaceShipTwo

Third, handful of test flights they were doing with new #SpaceShipTwo engine before putting Richard and Sam Branson aboard were insufficient

Let me stress2 things: one, we don't know what happened yet, so I'm not making a snap judgment about what caused the accident #SpaceShipTwo

Second, these concerns about the new engine were not mine alone. Folks much smarter and knowledgble than me were worried. #SpaceShipTwo

I predict you will be hearing a lot more about these concerns and the problems they were having in the days and weeks ahead #SpaceShipTwo

I've been deeply concerned for months that this could happen. It disturbed my waking hours and seeped into my dreams. #SpaceShipTwo

If Branson wants to see the program survive he needs to open up his check book. This will be the fourth dead person attributable to the program (the Scaled Composites accident in 2007 on similar engines). The engines are a dud, the drawing board needs to be gone back to.

[True Blue Door]

72. Indeed, I agree. Open his checkbook wide open. Get serious for a change.

Go back to SpaceShipOne if necessary, but get back to space on a reliable basis.

[alarimer]

71. No One Should die so a billionaire can go to space.

This was not about science; this was about space tourism, which shouldn't even be considered until all the kinks are worked out.

I'm sure the people involved were doing what they loved, but, ultimately, if the billionaires want to go to space, shouldn't they take the risks themselves?

[FLPanhandle]

73. Yes, they were doing what they loved.

and getting paid for it.

Who are you to tell them they can't?

If a billionaire was willing to fund my dream job, then I'd be one happy man.

[PersonNumber503602]

74. How do you perfect something if you don't actually attempt to use it?

How do you know all the 'kinks' are out unless you test it in real world situations? You can run all the simulations and tests you want, but until you're in the real situation and environment, you can't be 100% sure everything will work. Even with all the kinks worked out, things still go wrong. Planes crash. Cars crash. Boats sink. The only way to prevent all accidents is to simply not do anything at all. Is that what you're looking for?

Also, these test pilots did this because they wanted to be pioneers. The work they are doing now will forever be remembered as the first steps into the future of space travel for the masses. Their names may very well end up being remembered like the wright brothers, chuck yeagar, superman, and all the early astronauts. Are you saying that none of those people should have taken the risks they took?

[customerserviceguy]

77. People sell their lives to others all the time

But I agree with you in principle, this means that some really rich people are going to have to find something outrageously expensive to do on their vacations for the next several years.

[JEFF9K]

76. Hey wait, doesn't private industry ...

Hey wait, doesn't private industry do things better than the government?