Ferguson no-fly zone was to keep media from covering protests

[Newsjock]

Source: Associated Press

The U.S. government agreed to a police request to restrict more than 37 square miles of airspace surrounding Ferguson, Mo., for 12 days in August for safety, but audio recordings show that local authorities privately acknowledged the purpose was to keep away news helicopters during violent street protests.

On Aug. 12, the morning after the Federal Aviation Administration imposed the first flight restriction, FAA air traffic managers struggled to redefine the flight ban to let commercial flights operate at nearby Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and police helicopters fly through the area — but ban others.

“They finally admitted it really was to keep the media out,” said one FAA manager about the St. Louis County Police in a series of recorded telephone conversations obtained by the Associated Press. “But they were a little concerned of, obviously, anything else that could be going on.”

... The conversations contradict claims by the St. Louis County Police Department, which responded to demonstrations following the shooting death of 18-year-old Michael Brown, that the restriction was solely for safety and had nothing to do with preventing media from witnessing the violence or the police response.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Ferguson-no-fly-zone-was-to-keep-media-from-5865231.php

[Caretha]

1. So much for the "free press"

when we can control where they go and how they get there......

Yay ....& God Bless the fucking free US.

Might as well live in N.Korea

[Caretha]

7. And shut down airspace?

Really?

Please point me to that particular law.

[Caretha]

11. There was a crime scene

where people were legally congregating to protest?

Which " situation" as you put it, was illegal where the police were protecting a crime scene? Was there a crime committed because people were protesting?

You have some very convoluted thinking my friend.

[KingCharlemagne]

14. Please stop insulting the word 'thinking'. You've come face to face with a copologist* and

'thinking' is anathema to the species.

*Copologist: someone who believes police can never do any wrong nor commit any crime because 'might makes right.'

[blackspade]

40. Um, no.

I said the police can keep people and the press out of situations.

No, you didn't.

You said this:

You as a private citizen or press, don't get to just walk into any crime scene you want to.

and this:

Nor do you get to go into any active police action.

Demonstrations are not crime scenes, and they are not police actions.
Nice obfuscation and back peddling though....

[gopiscrap]

57. ...and because they're fucking asshole shit stain pigs

usually cops become cops because they can't fit in anywhere else, have rage or control issues!

[Ash_F]

19. Comparing the Ferguson protests to a "hostage situation"?

We got a live one over here folks!

[Ash_F]

37. Nah, your other posts in this thread spell you out.

Later.

[blackspade]

41. Logic...

[Xithras]

13. Per the USSC, local governments (including police) have no authority over air space. At all.

Per federal law, local police departments do NOT have the authority to close airspace. They can request that the FAA issue a TFR and close it, but the FAA is under no obligation to comply with that request, and local police agencies have no recourse if the FAA declines.

Under federal law, TFR's are only to be granted if the requesting authority can demonstrate that leaving the airspace open presents an immediate threat to passing aircraft or to people on the ground. There have been situations where TFR's have been legitimately issued for police actions, including hostage situations where live TV coverage would have given hostage takers operational information about the police surrounding them.

If FPD requested an airspace closure simply to keep the press away, the request was not legal. It's certainly not the first time the government has done this sort of thing (the government also closed the airspace above the BP oil spill for a while), but it's not something that is legal OR legitimate. The government does NOT have the legal authority to do this kind of crap, but we still see this kind of Bush-era behavior because nobody has bothered to slap their hand for it yet.

It's time for the media to file some lawsuits so the courts can commence with the hand slapping. The Constitution protects the press, not the police.

[KingCharlemagne]

18. How would live coverage "inflame the situation and make it worse"?

[KingCharlemagne]

29. "Keep in mind they are breaking windows and stealing everything that isnt [sic] bolted down." If the

protests were happening in front of MY house, I'd be offering to turn my house into a base of operations for the protests. Same if it happened in front of a business that I owned. I want the police to 'STAND DOWN' and 'CEASEFIRE' in Ferguson.

I think we're done here, as you're just out and out telling lies about the Ferguson Resistance. And I have little or no time for liars.

[blackspade]

42. Now you've resorted to race baiting...

Couldn't resist, could you...

[JonLP24]

44. I screwed up here

I was jury #2 but accidentally hit "Leave it alone" for some reason, still must be tired. That was the most straight-forward racist post I've seen here, usually they say what he/she but in so many other ways.



On Mon Nov 3, 2014, 06:51 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

You fake sanctimonious white giult is sickening.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=935020

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

look at the context please sens this bigot to MIRT

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 3, 2014, 06:59 AM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So many places to start to explain what it is wrong with this post
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Stupid even for a troll.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: this is over the top.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[blackspade]

45. It happens....

I'm just glad the poster finally stepped far enough over the line to get axed.
It was inevitable though...

[KingCharlemagne]

17. You are responding to a copologist, someone who believes the police can

never do anything wrong. Thanks for your efforts, not that they will make much difference.

[reACTIONary]

28. We all depend on the police...

..to enforce the law in the interest of peace and justice. Their duties are legitmate and deserving of respect.

[KingCharlemagne]

34. Oh puh-leeze. That may sound good in 8th-grade civics class. A constabulary's

duties are legitimate and deserve respect, the society that employs them not necessarily so (think racist Ferguson and racist St. Louis County).

[reACTIONary]

36. There really is nothing wrong...

...with eighth grade civics, and I'm definitely am in agreement with them. Another basic aspect of civil behavior and respect is to take your fellow citizens seriously when they express their opinions in good faith and refrain from denigrating them with insults like "coptologist".

[heaven05]

46. SHOES

if they fit..........

[KingCharlemagne]

50. The person whom I was referencing with that term appears to have left the building, as all of his or

her comments seem to have been removed from this thread. So his or her transgressions may have been more serious than a pure, unabashed love for all matters police-related.

IOW, I'm not sure that person was expressing "their opinions in good faith."

[reACTIONary]

54. S/He certainly did flame out rather quickly...

...with the crude racist crap.

[2banon]

56. Reality is much different

You said : (bold emphasis mine)

to enforce the law in the interest of peace and justice

(bold emphasis mine)

Police are not inclined to cite their mission in those terms.

They see their mission as to keep "Law and Order" with a strong emphasis on ORDER but in reality, it's all about Control and Order

"Peace" and "Justice" ummm.... not so much.

[reACTIONary]

59. So what's the difference between. ..

...between the law and justice? When you enforce the law, you uphold justice. What is the difference between peace and order? Can peace exist without order? Is chaos conducive to peace?

If you believe that a law is unjust, then you work to change the law. That isn't a police issue. When the law has been changed how will it be upheld? By the police.

[2banon]

60. there's a huge chasm between Justice and the Law, Peace and UNCHECKED AUTHORITARIAN CONTROL

HUGE DIFFERENCE.


It's clear to me that you are not really interested in the distinctions, so I'm not going to waste my time writing up an essay to illustrate what would actually be obvious if you for instance stepped into the shoes of any citizen engaged in any number of peaceful demonstrations over a myriad of issues over the past several decades, and had been a victim of over zealous police brutality.

[reACTIONary]

61. I am interested...

...I would appreciate it if you would explain to me in what way you distinguish between justice and the law.

My own opinion is that law is a codification of more general and less specific principles of justice. Codification makes it ethicaly reasonsble to enforce these principles since it clarifies expectations and provides a vehicle for rational deliberation, discussion, and, to some degree, consenses.

What I don't understand is how a condition of justice could effectively be established and prevail without codification into some sort of body of law and without enforcement that would amount to a police power. If you have any insight into this question I would appreciate learning of it.

I fairly regularly participate in peaceful protests, and there is always a police presence. I haven't found it to be a problem. Of course, it isn't the police itself I am protesting, so my experience isn't going to be the same as some others.

[billhicks76]

20. Revoke It

We act more and more like a common dictatorship with and every passing day. This can't end well.

[KingCharlemagne]

12. Before this, I've tended to pooh-pooh those who call the U.S. either a

'police state' currently or even an incipient version thereof. But this report makes me think I may have been too quick to dismiss those concerns.

[diabeticman]

2. And with that little stunt we see the first amendment being violated in 2 different ways

Freedom of the press as well as The right to peacefully assemble....


This is police state people.

[cstanleytech]

3. I would be lying if I said this is a surprise because it isnt. nt

[Downwinder]

4. Believe nothing of what you hear, and half of what you see.

Applies to government, too.

[Caretha]

8. Straw man

arguments here at DU are highly frowned upon and normally torn to bloody shreds, with the opposing poster being as kind as possible, without stripping any and all dignity from the aforementioned "straw man" poster

We just hate to call people stupid, gullible and just obtusely ignorant, if we can avoid it.

[billhicks76]

21. What Are You A Cop?

After reading your comments I'd suggest that you are an embarrassment to all freedom loving people. Disgraceful.

[KingCharlemagne]

22. If not a cop, then certainly a 'copologist'. Authoritarian personality type who thinks cops can

do no wrong, because 'might makes right.'

[reACTIONary]

31. Might doesn't make right...

...but without might, right doesn't stand a chance. Without enforcement, justice doesn't exist. You aren't against justice, are you?

[KingCharlemagne]

32. I'm against the Ferguson and St. Louis County police forces as they are currently

constituted. You?

[reACTIONary]

35. Your use of term "coptologist" to....

...denigrate someone who is arguing a specific (and not unreasonable) point concerning police power in general, suggests to me that you have an ideological position or bias that trancends a more narrow concern about a specific locality.

I don't think the current constitution of the Furgison police force has anything to do with the reasonableness of the police requesting limitations on the airspace. If you think differently, you might want to explain that connection, rather than calling names.

[KingCharlemagne]

48. Did you follow the protests at all in the aftermath of Wilson's execution of Brown? If you

did, you're probably aware that Amnesty International has issued a report that the Ferguson PD violated protesters' human rights. Well, if I'm violating people's human rights, I think I might just have a wee bit of self interest in shielding my violations from the glare of public scrutiny.

Look, we are not going to convince one another on this matter and are simply going to shout slogans at each other. You trust the Ferguson PD and St. Louis County PD's bona fides as currently constituted and I do not. In our current society, the only measure that would restore my trust at this point is for the entire leadership of BOTH forces to be completely reshuffled and the perps of the human rights' violations tossed into the dustbin of history AND the recusal\resignation of St. Louis County DA McCulloch from the Grand Jury proceedings. Otherwise, there will be no justice for Michael Brown or for any of us common folk, assuming the GJ does not indict Wilson.

[reACTIONary]

53. Shouting slogans? Who, me?

Sorry, I don't indulge in that sort of thing.

I used to live close by Furgison (Chamberland, closer to W Floresant than Halls Ferry) and I have relatives who live in Furgison now. To be truthful, they are not always on the right side of the law (Not going to say anything about myself!) so I've gotten a few first hand reports concerning F LEO standard practices and procedures. Of course, nothing comparable to being shot dead, so I don't want to claim to be one of the oppressed, but I sympathize with the protesters and believe strongly that reform and reorganization is needed.

[heaven05]

47. I was called that

very word recently from someone on here who disagreed with my position on how racist and fascist amerikkka is and always has been in it's laws, systems and institutions related to this vaunted 'democracy'. No one said anything about that affront. We, on this site, I believe , have been infested, with certain other people and ideas drifting in from a sister site. There are some real 'david duke' type apologists here now that have not been here before. SAD. I used to think I had a site I could go to without disguised RW drivel slobbered and spit all over the place.

[blackspade]

43. That was a sad personal attack....

cloaked in a negative reference to the President.

Pathetic.

[daleo]

23. Imagine if Putin had done this

[DeSwiss]

30. ....

The Obama Administration U.S. government agreed to a police request to restrict more than 37 square miles of airspace surrounding Ferguson, Mo., for 12 days in August for safety, but audio recordings show that local authorities privately acknowledged the purpose was to keep away news helicopters during violent street protests.

/fixed

- For clarity's sake.

[reACTIONary]

33. I have relatives in Furgison, and...

...when some associates of mine found out, they approached me about hosting a drone operation to fly survaliance for a media outlet. I talked to my fam, and they asked around and the consensus was that neither side would take kindly to it and it would just cause trouble. Probably not much good either.

[whereisjustice]

49. Too close to elections, the truth will be the first causualty in a class war gone hot. Sick

of police state apologists... "Did you see how rude those protestors were?"

From Democrats, no less.

[blkmusclmachine]

52. ,

,

[TorchTheWitch]

55. who is this FAA boob?

Keep the media out? The media was on the ground all over Ferguson. There were constant daily reports from the media about Ferguson. It's obvious why they didn't want non-police air traffic... because it obviously wasn't safe. And the police sure didn't need to be thwarted by news choppers putzing around the skies and getting in the way. That shit is dangerous.

This is stupid. The media was all over Ferguson. Nobody just imagined all those photos and interviews and videos up close and personal. What possible good does it do to try to keep the media out by only resticting the air space but not the media on the ground who not only weren't restricted but some got in the middle of a shooting fight between the police and two scum in a car shooting at an apartment building who the police had to rescue because they were really that fucking stupid. Even after that fiasco media was never restricted other than from the air which is normal procedure whenever police are doing a helicoptor chase or whatever.

Illogical dumbassery yet DU just eats it up.

[harun]

58. The Revolution will not be Televised

[Helen Borg]

62. They could have still sent News Drones.

hard to see them...