NBA player Dion Waiters informs he is a Muslim and plans to skip national anthems

[pettypace]

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Dion Waiters was nowhere to be found when the national anthem was being sung. He was absent when the starting lineups were introduced.

Turns out, Waiters was just acting in accordance with his religious beliefs.

Waiters informed Northeast Ohio Media Group that he is a Muslim and that's the reason he excused himself prior to the national anthem.

"It's because of my religion," Waiters told NEOMG. "That's why I stayed in the locker room."


Read more: http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/11/dion_waiters_informs_neomg_tha.html

---

Very similar to another pro basketball player who made the exact same stance in 1996. Back then he refused to stand up for the anthem but eventually compromised to turn his back to the flag and pray.

I think Waiters is taking a dangerous but courageous step in garnering attention to the political happenings by his government overseas.

[paper boy]

1. Yet another reason not to give a fuck about basketball.

[RandiFan1290]

32. Does it make you mad, boy?

[paper boy]

69. Not mad, just uninterested.

I would say more uninterested but I'm already completely uninterested so that would be impossible.

[amuse bouche]

46. "another reason"?

So what's the first reason?

[paper boy]

70. It's boring and stupid and turns jack asses like Dion Waiters into role models for children.

[Ash_F]

85. Children shouldn't be independent thinkers?

I feel sorry for yours, if you have them.

[paper boy]

86. so are you saying celebrity role models don't influencethe development of impressionable children?

Or that parents have no business influencing the growth and development of their own children? I find either premise completely ridiculous.

[Ash_F]

88. I find you completely ridiculous

But welcome to DU anyway.

[paper boy]

89. I notice you were unable/ unwilling to answer the question

and opted to go the personal attack route instead. I think we both know what that means, don't we? yeah, it means you just started and then lost an internet fight in like 2 posts. Now whose ridiculous? sleep on that internet fight loser.

[Ash_F]

90. Bested by the paper boy...

Oh you will have a bright future here.

[paper boy]

91. The paper boy is here to deliver the news

and the news just got delivered to you. and everyday the paper boy brings more.

[LanternWaste]

140. Less news, and more simply an unsupported editorial.

Less news, and more simply an unsupported editorial. However, I do realize that we often allow our personal dislike of a thing to interfere with rational thought...

[paper boy]

144. I guess you didn't recognize the levity.

your bad.

[olddad56]

51. who needs a reason.

you either are interested or you re not.

[paper boy]

74. not true. People are interested in various things for various reasons

likewise, people are uninterested in various things for various reasons.

[ballyhoo]

57. I stopped watching all sports after the first baseball strike,

and never returned to them. However, were I still watching them, and some sports player refused to stand during the US National Anthem, I would have stopped watching that sport too. More out of remembrance of days walking through the jungles of Vietnam than any profound sense of Patriotism, especially now. That is pretty much gone... Good luck to you.

[paper boy]

73. The steroids scandal ruined baseball for me.

I spent 8 years in the Army and while I harbor no special feelings for the Army, I still consider myself patriotic and I still sing the national anthem for no particular reason occasionally.

[ballyhoo]

78. Me too occasionally...

[CreekDog]

145. i love my country but there's no need to like or sing the national anthem

for those people that have religious beliefs that they feel conflict with singing the anthem or pledging for the flag, it has no bearing on their ability to be role models that they don't participate.

[paper boy]

147. That's seems a lot like saying I love my spouse but there's no need to tell him/her.

I don't personally have a lot of use for hyphenated Americans with divided loyalties. It's a free country so people are free to sing it or not and that's fine but once those divided loyalties lead to things like bombs being planted at Marathons, I have a real problem.

[CreekDog]

148. stupid response. the national anthem is not saying "I love you to the country"

enjoy your stay.

[paper boy]

150. ......

[mallard]

94. Way to hijack ...

... a fairly interesting discussion topic with vulgar, vain and irrational claims of disinterest. Why write except to distract if genuinely disinterested? The idea is to express distaste and encourage general disrespect as the new mode of fait accompli. Muslims are from now on to be handled and dealt with as a lower caste. Ho hum.

Waiter is making a bold statement at a time when anti-Muslim sentiment is at fever pitch heights. Open opposition to any other readily identifiable groups - this one comprising a quarter of the world's population - has never been too closely associated with concepts of fair play and mutual respect.

While IS and Boko Haram have certainly managed to churn up and even fuel the anti-Muslim side with their violent campaigns, doing more damage to Muslim reputation than anyone else in 1430 years, they really don't represent authentic Islam and they certainly don't predate wars brought down on places like Iraq and Libya - as if these countries were to be 'helped' by military action undertaken.

Imagine how the discussion might go if Muslims were actually welcome to make their own case. Instead, the post 9/11 wars of attrition are likely to continue for several more decades. Bush & Co are still apparently to be credited by some 'disinterested' parties for turning much of the Arab world on its heels.

People who aim to put God first should never have become an 'enemy'.

[cosmicone]

107. Bush and Cheney shouldn't get the entire blame

and Muslims shouldn't get a free pass.

Bush and Cheney could never have succeeded without overt help from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Emirates, Qatar, Jordan and Egypt. Only Turkey refused to allow its territory to be used against Iraq.

If Saudis had the guts, they could have told Bush to stick that idea in Bush's nether regions. Without Saudi soil as the staging ground, it would have been impossible for Bush to attack Iraq so decisively.

Why is it that Muslims don't have the insight to see that it was the Saudi and Kuwaiti hatred of Saddam that was instrumental in the Iraq war? The last time I checked, both Saudi and Kuwaiti regimes are Muslim.

I'd support Muslim protests against Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait first and then support protests against the US. They are the ones who are secretly funding ISIS and Boko Haram.

The last insight that is sorely needed is that Islam of today is perceived as the only religion where violence is exalted and looked up to. When are mainstream Muslims going to disavow violence, have candle-light vigils/peaceful protests against violence and prove that it is actually a religion of peace? All the world sees right now are Muslims cheering ISIS and forced conversion of Yazidis and Kurds with a rah rah rah theme of Islam dominating the world. Contrast this with dozens of protests against Bush's wars in American society.

[uppityperson]

114. Why would skipping a national anthem be "another reason"? What is wrong with doing that?

[paper boy]

125. he has a right to disrespect his country and I have a right to not observe it.

what's wrong with that?

[uppityperson]

127. How is avoiding a national anthem "disrespect his country"?

I can think of a hell of a lot better examples of disrespecting a country than avoiding a national anthem. False patriotism combined with avoiding paying taxes with supporting politicians who do harm to most of the people in the country for example.

Or let's keep it simpler. Invading and occupying a foreign country for its oil.

[paper boy]

131. refusing to show reverence for one's country is a statement especially in such a high profile manner

and the statement is pretty clear, I do not care for this country even though it has enabled me to be successful and even wealthy. Attributing your lack of reverence to Islamic religious beliefs further suggests that being Islamic and American are somehow incompatible which is even more disrespectful considering how successful Islamic immigrants have been in America. It's kind of like saying thanks for everything you have done for me now fuck you.
edit: and I'm really not interesting in getting into the weeds regarding the rest of your post. No disrespect intended.

[uppityperson]

133. In your view, is standing for the anthem while supporting invading other countries showing "respect"

for your country? Is voting against environmental protections while wearing a flaggie pin showing "respect"?

[paper boy]

134. Standing for the anthem is a show of reverence for one's country.

doing it while supporting the invasion of other countries? I'm not sure I follow.

But given the reality of our two party political system and our petro-dollar based economy, and the fact that we have all benefitted from the decisions that were made on behalf of our petro-dollar based economy, I think complaining about it is very much hypocritical. It's like saying, "I don't support war for oil, but I support having an economic system that allows me to create infinite amounts of money to pay for all of my various interests".

[uppityperson]

135. You look down upon those who do not participate in public displays of revering their country?

Our economic system "allows me to create infinite amounts of money for all my various interests"? Seriously?

Doing massive environmental damage is ok, so long as you wear a flaggie pin to show you "revere" your country?

wtf?

[paper boy]

137. You would prefer that I look up to such people?

Our economic system "allows me to create infinite amounts of money for all my various interests"? Seriously?
You, like every other American, has benefitted immeasurably by the petro-dollar arrangement. Seriously.

Doing massive environmental damage is ok, so long as you wear a flaggie pin to show you "revere" your country?
Those are your words, not mine. I never once commented on the environment. that's all you.

wtf?
You would prefer some anti-American sentiments and some intellectual dishonesty?

[uppityperson]

138. I judge on what people do vs mere public displays. Regarding "infinite" amounts of money.

I can create "infinite" amounts of money? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

You did not comment on the environment but seem to be saying it doesn't matter what someone does, so long as they do public displays pf Patriotism (tm) like standing for the anthem, or pehaps wearing a flag pin. I disagree.

We either show public displays of reverence to the national anthem, or are "anti-american"? Ohhhhkay.


Have you checked out Discussionist forum? It is better suited for such beliefs.

[paper boy]

139. Dion plays a game, gets paid a lot of money to do it, and then disrespects the country

that enabled him to become wealthy playing a game. That's my judgment.

I can create "infinite" amounts of money? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
It's pretty obvious that I was saying you reap the benefits of living in a country that can create infinite amounts of capital to finance and maintain a standard of living envied throughout the world and which would not be possible were it not for decisions made by leaders from both political parties and that it's more than a little bit hypocritical to live in this country reaping those benefits while denouncing those decisions especially if you have reaped the benefits to the tune of millions of petro-dollars. If it bothers such a person so much that they have to engage in BS stunts like skipping the national anthem, they should just pack up their bags and be on their way and if they can't, certainly don't expect me to be impressed by your statement. That's really all I'm saying.

We either show public displays of reverence to the national anthem, or are "anti-american"? Ohhhhkay.
I don't think I laid it out quite like that.


You did not comment on the environment but seem to be saying it doesn't matter what someone does, so long as they do public displays of Patriotism (tm) like standing for the anthem, or perhaps wearing a flag pin. I disagree.
I think I have made my point abundantly clear and I'm done here. I may actually have to catch a cavalier game just so I can watch Dion sing along to the SSB. Let's play ball Dion.

[LanternWaste]

141. Bumper-sticker patriotism is little more than a bumper-sticker.

Is reverence for a country earned or merely demanded? On what objective measure is that reverence predicated on?


I do however, realize the pretense we often hold that others show their bumper-sticker patriotism in the same way we ourselves do to better validate our dogmatic and rigid lack of critical thought, and better support our own personal biases.

[paper boy]

146. and bumper sticker unpatriotism is somehow better?

like, for example, showing discontent with this country by engaging in some symbolic act of unpatriotism right before going out on the court to make a boat load of money to be used to finance a well above average level of comfort. How is that more than a bumper sticker?

[Scairp]

2. So...

He's not American anymore, he's just a Muslim? This makes no sense at all. He is in Ohio, he should wear his asbestos sneakers as I predict it's going to get hot for him there in Cleveland.

[cosmicone]

3. What has attending the anthem got to do with Islam?

Muslims everywhere attend and sing national anthems of India, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Gambia, Turkey, Mali, Morocco, Malaysia etc.

I can understand simply standing up and not singing along but simply not attending is not okay. I'd have more respect if he quit his job and stopped taking money generated by American fans, American advertisers and American consumers who all revere the country.

Lastly, he is doing a disservice to other Muslims who will suffer because of this - he may escape the wrath because of his celebrity status but a Muslim taxi driver or Muslim factory worker may suffer with no fault of their own.

[7962]

4. +1!! Another great post. And read the last sentence of that article

I guess maybe it depends on whether or not he's starting!

[Shemp Howard]

5. Well said. (nt)

[840high]

15. +1

[MADem]

53. He's making the shit up as he goes along.

And you are right, he is doing a disservice to Muslims everywhere. He should maybe take some advice from successful American athletes like Kareem Abdul Jabbar or Muhamad Ali about this, because plainly, he has no clue.

[ballyhoo]

60. Good one, cosmicone. I agree completely.

[DAngelo136]

66. There have been several prominent Muslims in sports

Muhammad Ali immediately comes to mind. Then there was Kareem Abdul Jabaar, Ahmad Rashad, Jamaal Wilkes, Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Quawi Muhammad, and Mahmoud Abdul Raouf.

I held him last because of his controversial stand or shall I say, not standing while a player in the NBA:


http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5544920/mahmoud-abdul-rauf-nuggets-national-anthem

[treestar]

100. I wonder that too

If Saudi Arabia has a national anthem, then it can't be objection to that itself. He's still an American, no one says being Muslim means you aren't.

[LanternWaste]

142. No more and no less than attendance for an anthem has to do with playing basketball.

"What has attending the anthem got to do with Islam?"

No more and no less than attendance for an anthem has to do with playing basketball.

[BillZBubb]

6. Dion is getting some bad advice.

There is nothing in Islam that prohibits standing for the National Anthem. So, he is either ill-informed or being dishonest about his reasons.

At least he isn't courtside during the anthem.

[jaysunb]

8. +1 n/t

[FarPoint]

30. Thats what I thought too.

Its a song....

[Igel]

56. That's a non sequitur.

Point to the official definition and codification of Muslim belief that a person must subscribe to to be a Muslim. Be sure to include Shi'a and Sunni, Salafi and Sufi.

You'll find that it's not nearly as neat, cut and dried, as Catholic belief. And even then, there are a lot of people who say they're "Catholic" and who's Catholicism is taken to be authentic who don't subscribe to the official statement of beliefs and all the outworkings that have official status.

The problem is declaring allegiance and fealty to a non-Muslim power and acknowledging that non-Muslims have legitimate claims over you as a citizen. It's one thing to be a guest and abide by their rules as long as they provide protection and allow you to live a virtuous life. It's another thing to be a supporter, esp. a supporter of a government that is killing those that you consider to be more "your people" than your neighbor. For many Muslims, the ummah takes precedence over those who received lesser revelations (who aren't equals, but at least have some status) and those who have rejected all revelations and are completely apostate.

And, yes, there is no new Prophet around to declare that people who believe and do such things aren't Muslims. Have fiqh, have fatawa, will travel.

The issue isn't that he's not going to stand. That's his business. It issue is that he's decided to make it a point of public relations, to aggrandize himself and point out how wonderful and virtuous he's being in his contempt. Which, oddly, is very post-modern American.

[msongs]

7. bet he won't turn his back on money nt

[KansDem]

26. The green, green, and green always trumps the red, white, and blue!

Always!

[workinclasszero]

68. "bet he won't turn his back on money"

Oh HELLZ NAW the $$$$ is OK , you damn BETCHA!

[LanternWaste]

143. I imagine he earns the money for playing the game rather than attending to symbolic gestures.

I imagine he earns the money for playing the game rather than attending to symbolic gestures.

[SheilaT]

10. I'm not a Muslim and I prefer to skip the National Anthem.

I also don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance. And I'm still not a Muslim.

[Judi Lynn]

21. You're not alone, not by any means. Many people have believed this way for generations. n/t

[whathehell]

35. Why?

[SheilaT]

49. I find the singing of the National Anthem at every sporting event

to be weird and unnecessary, and adding in God Bless America in the middle of a baseball game is another enforced patriotism I'm uncomfortable with.

The Pledge is likewise weird and enforced patriotism. The flag? Really? The flag is just a symbol anyway, and pledging allegiance to a symbol is nonsense. Plus the Under God part. First off I'm old enough to remember when it was stuck in there. I was in Catholic school at the time, and I recall the nuns not being very happy. And that part is an enforced religiosity that doesn't belong in secular life. Same with prayers before meetings of any kind. Prayer belongs in churches or in private, not in the public sphere.

[whathehell]

64. Oh, okay...

How 'bout at NON-sporting events, if, of course, you can remain

silent for the "under God" part? And as far as the Pledge and the anthem

being "enforced patriotism", I'm guessing you're wrong there,

as you, by your own admission, don't say it, don't sing it

and aren't being "forced" to do so.

Just a thought.

[Alittleliberal]

111. I was forced to say it when I was in elementary and middle school.

Why should I have to pledge my allegiance to a flag? It's a silly and outdated practice that only fuels irrational nationalism.

[SheilaT]

120. Think of it this way: It's a prayer.

It might be a secular prayer if not for the Under God part, but not saying those two words doesn't make any difference. Nor does it matter what the event is. The underlying assumptions that everyone will mindlessly go along with the Pledge need to be examined.

Sort of like when I was in grade school and every day at the start of school we'd do the Pledge and then The Lord's Prayer. It made me furious that I was supposed to recite the Protestant ending to it, but we never got to say a Hail Mary or an Apostle's Creed.

Perhaps I'm not being directly forced to say the Pledge, but the peer pressure is pretty amazing. I will usually stand but say nothing. When I'm feeling brave enough I don't even stand.

[JonLP24]

121. Agree

I don't understand the big deal myself even though it appears to be a misunderstanding.

The one time he misses the national anthem in his 3rd season of professional basketball is because he is Muslim. I tend to believe Waiters because if it was about what was originally reported, he would have done it much sooner, not the 4th game of the season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11848159/dion-waiters-cleveland-cavaliers-says-absence-national-anthem-was-misunderstanding

[Jake Stern]

112. Worked at a thrift store where the boss would gather us all together before the store opened

to recite the Pledge. It was implied that we were to join in "or else" until he was reminded that firing someone for refusing to recite the pledge would end with a trip to the courthouse with the company likely paying out a nice settlement.

I don't make pledges to flags anymore than I would pledge allegiance to a brass statue of Ganesh or a crucifix or pentagram or another symbol.

I show my love for this country daily by doing something, however small, to make it better. That is my pledge of allegiance.

[MADem]

106. And I'm guessing you don't run around telling people you are one, and using that as an excuse.

It's called courage of conviction in one's own personal preference, and the player needs to get him some.

[Botany]

11. Fine .... he isn't that good and I am sure that his contract has a behavior clause in it too.

Say good bye to 4.2 million per year idiot.

[bravenak]

12. I don't deify anything or pretend its sacred.

Its just a song and a flag.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Anyone who does is not well balanced. Thanks. n/t

[EX500rider]

108. So these guys were not "well balanced"?

[JonLP24]

115. They didn't

The fact that people did made that a myth or whatever.

It was a detail where they put up a second flag where they happened to be photographed because the Secretary of the Navy wanted the first flag raised for himself.

[EEO]

13. Right.

[SpankMe]

14. This should end well. n/t

[Dreamer Tatum]

16. Bet he doesn't skip the national currency, though nt

[whathehell]

36. Bingo!

We have a winner.

[treestar]

101. Yep And it still says in God we Trust

Not Allah!

[hughee99]

19. I recall what Hakeem Olajuwon (also a Muslim) had to say on the issue back in 1996.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/14/sports/basketball-a-puzzled-olajuwon-speaks-out-on-citizenship.html

Waiters will now have a whole bunch of people watching to see if he's strictly observing the Ramadan fasting rules and god help him if he starts wearing any gold jewelry.

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

20. No one should be required to stand, recite, sing, etc ANYTHING they do not want to

No one should be required to stand, recite, sing, etc ANYTHING they do not want to for any reason or no reason whatsoever.

I am a US Military Vet and Nationalism SUCKS I do NOT STAND OR SING or Show any reverence to ANYTHING Nationalistic, it is 100% BS, IMHO makes people do stupid things too, like attack other countries for no fucking reason what so ever except as an excuse to beat up weaker nations and take their stuff, it encourages group think and group action which never leads to anything good.

If one cares to be Nationalistic that is ones choice, but to belittle and attack others for making a choice for themselves for any reason or no reason is nothing but bullying.

One of the things I find really amusing is that so many wave the flag and shout USA, USA yet when it comes times to export that nationalism via military action, few actually join in all most do is wave the flag and expect others to do the dirty work for them.

America using its military might to blow the shit out of another country and kill all of its inhabitants is nothing to fucking cheer about or be proud of.

If one wants to wave the flag and sing nationalistic song that is your right but if one is not willing to die for the country they a flag waving for and singing about, well in my book that just makes one a hypocrite.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Your post is very deeply appreciated. Thank you, so much. Welcome to D.U. n/t

[tontonmacoute]

24. I only stand if the anthem is accompanied by fighter jets screaming through the sky overhead...

Call me a coward but I stand just to avoid the hassles that result from not doing so, as I did years ago overseas as they played their anthems. (Where you could disappear into third world jail instead of just getting beaten up.)

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

34. I would not call anyone a coward for making a personal choice

I am also not stupid either and would stand if jail was the option for not doing so. Countries that require that are also not free either. The USA is supposedly free, at least in theory, other countries have their own rules.

Besides what’s the point of nationalistic nonsense before professional sports events? Rather meaningless if you ask me.

[whathehell]

31. How about if they are willing to sing the national anthem AND die for the country?

Is that okay with you?

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

39. I don't care just don't bully those who don't partake.

[whathehell]

40. Awww...Poor widdle million dollar "victim"

[amuse bouche]

58. "How about if they are willing to sing the national anthem AND die for the country?"

They die for their country because they believe in freedom. Freedom not to participate... included

[whathehell]

62. They die for the freedom NOT to sing the national anthem?

Yeah, sure.

[amuse bouche]

83. Yes, believe it or not...freedom not to be a mindless sheep

but you go right ahead and join them

[JonLP24]

117. I served in a deployment, received combat pay

And agree with posters who'd prefer not to stand or sing for the National Anthem (to me standing up is simply standing up)

Where does that put me?

[amuse bouche]

47. Love your post

[BeyondGeography]

76. As an individual citizen, yes. As an employee who is part of a commercial endeavor

good luck with that, Dion.

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

92. If contractually obligated then mandatory participation is required but I doubt National Anthem

participation is even specifically mentioned in the contract.

Myself I actually read what I sign and have walked away from endeavors that would require me to do things that I do not want to do that are either directly related or indirectly related to the job I was hired to do.

If we want real positive change in this country people are going to have to stop acting like sheep.

[BeyondGeography]

95. Sacrifice is part of adult life; it is not being a sheep

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 09:33 AM - Edit history (1)

See how many teams and teammates want you when you turn the anthem into a spectacle every night. We all get roped into stuff that isn't part of the job description. You acknowledge it in your own post. You walk away when you don't want to pay the price. Dion might have to as well.

Anyway, he's already saying the whole thing is bullshit, or, as you might call it, going into sheep mode:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/11/08/dion-waiters-calls-report-he-skipped-national-anthem-due-to-being-muslim-a-damn-lie/

[uppityperson]

116. Exactly. Thank you for your post, welcome to Du.

[harun]

130. Good post. Nationalism is not the friend people think it is.

[NaturalHigh]

25. I don't see the big deal.

I always stand, but it's a personal preference. If it's against a player's religion, or if he just doesn't want to stand, it really doesn't affect me.

[NeoConsSuck]

55. Should we deport everyone

who doesn't stand for the national anthem at sporting events? Maybe we should also deport those who are standing but glancing at their smartphones?

[whathehell]

63. Oh, sure...Except I didn't say a damn thing about "deportation", duh

We do have people living here who are not citizens, genius.

[JonLP24]

118. Born in Philadelphia

He appears to be as much as a citizen as you or me.

[Fred Sanders]

28. Sports jocks make for poor political commentators. Being famous has nothing to do with being smart,

except in America.

Just keep dribbling, leave the politics to folks who do not make their living playing with their balls.

[whathehell]

33. So do a lot of posters on blogs like this one..

and if you think athletes and sports are only all important in America, you need to view

a few soccer riots in Europe.

[Fred Sanders]

38. What?

[whathehell]

42. I don't teach remedial reading..

Try again.

[Android3.14]

29. It's a stupid move

A sporting event is a cultural event with rules of behavior, ritual, traditions and mores, one of which is the singing of the national anthem.

In this climate of wounded jingoism, skipping the national anthem is a stupid mistake that will end his career and does nothing to promote his religion or moderate perceptions of Islam.

[rurallib]

37. I wish they would quit playing the national anthem or America the beautiful

at all sorts of trivial functions like sporting events and just play the damned games.
Save the anthems and patriotic songs for meaningful moments.
I think it really trivializes the anthem also.

[Strelnikov_]

44. Completely agree

For me, it feels kind of Orwellian.

As you allude to, it should be limited to governmental/political events.

[Vinca]

41. Dion who?

If he has no allegiance to the United States, he'd better pack his bags and find a team in the Middle East.

[Rhinodawg]

75. But he does have an allegiace to United States money.

[heaven05]

43. the intolerance

ignorance and religious bigotry present in the responses to this OP is just sickening. Rah. Rah Rah..... 1984 is here, in triplicate.

[alarimer]

124. I would have expected better of so-called liberals.

Fuck the flag and the anthem. Just jingoistic bullshit.

He is free to do what he chooses to do. Whatever the reason.

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Can any juror (or alerter) post the jury results for the 2 hidden posts above?

They are both posts I wouldn't have thought would have been alerted on, let alone hidden. Is there something I'm missing? Or is there a new spirit of censorship abroad on DU?

[cosmicone]

61. Ya think?

I would hate to subscribe to a conspiracy theory but I think there is a trend to hide posts that are critical of Islam and Muslims.

I personally think the jurors should not be secret and it is important to know who the jurors are. Since everyone has relative anonymity anyway, revealing jurors' screen-names shouldn't cause a problem.

Here is how the jury system can be rigged: If one has a few like-minded friends, one can IM them and tell them that one is alerting on a certain post. If 4-5 people happen to be online and respond, an alert is sent and the 4-5 friends keep hitting refresh until they are invited to be on a jury.

The only way to avoid this is to make the jury system transparent where jurors' screen names are revealed and ALL jury decisions are posted in a separate thread where anyone can go and see the details.

[alp227]

71. uhh those posts are not merely "critical" of Muslims...

they dehumanize Muslims by asserting that they are disloyal to the US if they DARE take a stand against US foreign policy towards mideast. One post even asserted that Waiters "join(ed) ISIS".

[cosmicone]

77. I don't think it is dehumanizing.

No one is arguing against taking a stand against US foreign policy towards middle east. I am against US foreign policy towards middle east. That doesn't mean I have to disrespect the very institutions that allow me the freedom to express my views.

What the subject of the OP is doing is saying that he is doing so because he is a Muslim -- not because he is against the foreign policy.

The irony is that for every Muslim that is sympathetic to ISIS, there are probably two who are all for destruction of ISIS because ISIS caricatures and defames Islam far more than any other opponent of Islam has ever accomplished.

[alp227]

80. "disrespect the very institutions"? Oh really?

So it's not OK to burn the flag or desecrate any national symbols to protest US policy? I never thought I'd see authoritarian "respect the national anthem" BS posted on DU.

[cosmicone]

98. You are confusing anthem sung at official events

with anthem sung at sporting events. The latter is not some expression of American power but simply a sociological symbol of "American-ness" because the league is on American soil. There are no speeches glorifying our wars in the middle east nor is anyone asked to join the military to go fight.

In that sense, anthem sung at sporting venues is just pop music.

The anthem itself glorifies the struggle of the revolutionary war and has nothing to do with foreign invasions. It should be objectionable to the British far more than Muslims.

Burning of flag etc. are political free speech primarily used by the weak, poor and powerless because all it costs is a flag and a couple of matches. Waiters is a person of means and he can easily launch a protest organization, have a website, place ads on TV/in Newspapers and use all mainstream means of dissent. Thus, what Waiters did was a publicity stunt.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. In what way are they 'dehumanizing'?

No, it didn't "assert that Waiters joined ISIS"; it asked "did he join ISIS" - sarcastically. Its point was that becoming a Muslim is no reason to be against national anthems; to go that far, you'd have to join an extremist group, like ISIS. That post explicitly goes on to say "I have Muslim and Jewish friends and they not only get along, they became US Citizens and are proud to be Americans even though they don't agree with all our policies." That's the precise opposite of 'dehumanizing' Muslims. The only people that post criticises are 'tea bagging flag wavers', and Waiters for his dumb comment on the anthem.

The next hidden post only criticises Waiters. It says nothing about Muslims. And now we have another hidden post, and all it did was criticise Waiters. What the fuck is going on? Are DUers not allowed to criticise public figures who make dick moves (which, it should be pointed out, he backed down from on Friday) any more?

Are you saying you want posts that are pro-Muslim, but that criticise an individual Muslim, hidden?

[cosmicone]

97. +1 n/t

[treestar]

102. I didn't find them hide-worthy either

I may not agree with the sentiments expressed, but they were opinions and not expressed rudely to other DUers.

[3catwoman3]

48. IMO, staying in the locker room is preferable...

...to standing there chomping gum with one's mouth open like most players do.

[dembotoz]

50. i try to avoid the anthem and the pledge

in terms of my faith i relate it more to the christian have no other gods before me and the whole golden calf thing from moses--or was that just in the movie....

between the gop and their flag pins and the usa usa chants makes me wanna gag

feelings started in high school as viet nam protest and have not go away
I generally use the bathroom at the start of sporting events
just easier

Does this make me less of a citizen in other folks eyes because i do not get all gingly at some tea party storm trooper goose stepping--i can live with that

[RufusTFirefly]

72. I prefer loyalty oaths myself. Preferably signed in blood

Apparently some people believe that standing for the Anthem inoculates them from accusations of being an a-hole.

I like it when people freely choose to join together to honor or celebrate. But this sort of enforced conformity (as opposed to an actual law) really gives me the creeps.

[MADem]

52. That's a load of horseshit.

Is his game suffering? Has he gotten some bad news from his team, like, "Shape up or you're gone?" Is he trying to make a case for religous persecution down the line?

He's an attention seeker who is following some bizarre "fundy" version of what he calls Islam.

These guys don't have any trouble standing for, and even singing, their anthems:

American Muslim Kareem Abdul Jabbar wasn't perturbed, either:

Nor was anti-war stalwart Muhammad Ali:

"It's because of my RELIGION..." Translation "It's because I want ATTENTION."

Don't use the "religious excuse" especially when the religion is Islam. There's way more wiggle room in Islam than the average westerner--or zealous convert--realizes.

Dangerous? Courageous? Please.

[ballyhoo]

59. Good post. There is something ironic about this

entire thread top to bottom.

[Feron]

99. Thanks to Jehovah's Witnesses..

children aren't forced to say the pledge at school.

Just because he may be a religious nutter, does not mean that he is necessarily wrong. People shouldn't be coerced/forced into praying, singing, reciting oaths, or any other activity that the individual doesn't want to do. Even if his reasons are suspect, he has that right as long as it doesn't infringe on others. And yes it takes courage to go against the grain and especially an American sacred cow.

Furthermore, he shouldn't have to stay out of sight while the anthem is playing. If America is so fragile that the sight of an American quietly sitting down and opting out of the anthem is so distressing, then it's time to stick a fork in the country. Because that would prove that we're more obsessed with conformity and symbols than actual substance.

I also don't buy the concern trolling about Muslims in this thread. People aren't going to suddenly hate Muslims because of him and those that hate Muslims are going to hate anyway. Attacking members of a religion because one prominent member doesn't sing a song basically tells me that the attackers would look for any excuse no matter how flimsy. I hate it when people blame the victims. Muslims could do everything "right" and still be attacked/discriminated against.

I really couldn't care less if one person doesn't say the pledge, pray, or sing an anthem. If people are upset about that, then they need to get a life, hobby, something.

BTW you missed Roseanne Barr's version of the anthem.

[MADem]

104. Look, he's the one that blamed Islam for his bout of diarrhea, or whatever his problem was.

I am not saying he "can't" sit out the pledge, or the anthem, or any patriotic display.

Just don't make up bullshit excuses about why he's doing it.

I didn't "miss Roseanne Barr's version of the anthem" but that has nothing to do with the point I am making.

This clown is making up the rules as he goes along. If he has a problem with US policy and that's why he's putting his behind down on the locker room bench, well, whoop-dee-doo. Fine. He can knock himself out.

He doesn't have the right to lie about a large swathe of people, though. He's taking the reason for his actions OFF himself and his views, and "blaming" Islam. He might as well have pulled a Flip Wilson and claimed that the devil made him do it.

He's full of crap. He doesn't have the courage of his convictions if he hides behind Islam as his reason for non-participation. The previously-posted examples proved that.

[packman]

54. National anthem is somehow religious?

Coulda fooled me? Warlike, glorifying military exploits, hyper-jingoist-but certainly not religious.

And here it is complete: NOTE that only the last stanza (never heard it sung) refers to God and conquering those we war against.

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave

[Rowdyboy]

65. If its okay with the fans of this insanely boring "sport" and his product endorsement checks

keep rolling in and his coaches/teammates have his back then I personally don't give a shit.

If it ever hits him directly in the pocketbook, I'm sure he will reconsider. Money, as always, trumps principle.

[rocktivity]

67. He should just stand silently, not disappear.

He IS a member of the team, after all.


rocktivity

[NordicLeft]

79. Looks like it is not true...Dion Waiters denies missing national anthem for religious reasons

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2014-11-08/dion-waiters-cleveland-cavaliers-national-anthem-absence-rumors-tweets

Dion Waiters Refutes Report On Why He Missed The National Anthem

http://deadspin.com/dion-waiters-refutes-report-on-why-he-missed-the-nation-1656343403

[Enrique]

81. I find it implausible that the reporter would fabricate those quotes

what would be the motive? More likely imho that Waiters regrets what he originally said.

[JonLP24]

119. I don't get why he'd suddenly make the move in his third season in the NBA

and 1 season at Syracuse.

[randome]

151. Maybe he had a Cat Stevens moment.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You have to play the game to find out why you're playing the game. -Existenz[/center][/font][hr]

[JonLP24]

152. I was 3 when that happened so I don't understand the controversy

the only thing that led me to even be aware of it was the "guilt by musician" criticisms of John Stewart having him at the rally. Lacking context all I see is him pointing the penalty for Blasphemy in the Quran which draws a distinction but.. "punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter, Except for those who return repenting before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

The questioned including the term "fatwa" which pertains to Sharia law. Better understanding of orthodox right wing sects of Islam are helped by honest answers in the context of "fatwa".

As far as Dion Waiters, it seems way too out-of-the-blue and he is refuting the report which means without recorded evidence, the claim is unproven.

Either way I couldn't care less. I always skip the national anthem & other spectacles surrounding sporting events with my remote.

[oberliner]

93. Actually, it looks like it is true and he is now trying to cover himself

The original report has quotes from Waiters.

Here is the followup from the original reporter:

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/11/claveland_cavaliers_guard_dion.html

[MADem]

105. Probably when someone pointed out that Kareem and Ali didn't mind, and there's no "rule" against it,

he backed off his first bullshit excuse.

I don't think the reporter invented his comments. I think the player got some pushback and he's spinning and making excuses.

[rafeh1]

82. what religion go to do with it

I am Muslim and have no issues with pledge of allegiance. We are part of community and society. this guy is just attention seeker

[roamer65]

84. Bad move on his part.

[KinMd]

87. I don't remember Kareem Abdul Jabbar doing this.

[Politicalboi]

103. LOL!

I couldn't care less about ANY sport, but I sure am happy to see this. Fair play just burns the GOP "christians".

[leftynyc]

126. I have no idea why you think this is funny

The player is full of shit - there is nothing anti-Islamic about the national anthem and now it looks like the coward is trying to walk it all back anyway. He's an attention seeker and is getting burned by trying to claim something completely untrue? And you find that funny enough to put in more than a dozen juvenile emoticons.

[Nye Bevan]

109. Wait... what does the Star Spangled Banner have to do with religion?

I thought the lyrics were inspired by a battle in the War of 1812 at Baltimore?

I could understand this guy wanting to skip the Lord's Prayer if this was recited before every game. But why the National Anthem?

[truthisfreedom]

110. Complete lyrics from the Smithsonian site

Star Spangled Banner

O say can you see, by the dawn’s early light,
What so proudly we hail’d at the twilight’s last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
O’er the ramparts we watch’d were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
’Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash’d out their foul footstep’s pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
Between their lov’d home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with vict’ry and peace may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the power that hath made and preserv’d us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto - “In God is our trust,”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

[Nye Bevan]

113. OK, well he could stay for verses 1 through 3 (nt)

[ileus]

122. I'm sure he hurt the National Anthems feelings...

[alarimer]

123. Everyone should skip it.

It's fucking stupid, jungoistic bullshit anyway. I never stand and when I'm at a game, make it a point of being in the bathroom when they play it. Seems appropriate somehow.

[Blue_Tires]

128. I might have had more respect for him had he said he did it for political reasons...

Just saying "because I'm a muslim" doesn't hold much water...

[randome]

149. ISIS is Muslim, too. I guess this guy spends most of his free time in bathrooms and locker rooms.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[okieinpain]

129. lol, man people love controversy. he will not be playing in the nba long. n/t.

[closeupready]

132. Conscientious objection is honorable, by definition, principled. He's obviously

trying to make people think about how all this senseless warfare is killing innocent people, mostly muslim.

Of course, the underlying purpose of his refusal will be lost on today's DU, where the most popular book of fairy tales is the one which is defended, and Waiters' is dis-respected. SSDD.

[WhoWoodaKnew]

136. They'll end up trading him.