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alp227

(31,962 posts)
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:44 PM Nov 2014

5 family members killed on 'dream trip' to Disney

Source: AP

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — A 16-year-old boy driving his family on a "dream trip" to Disney World apparently fell asleep at the wheel, causing the sport utility vehicle to veer off the highway and roll over, killing three children and two adults, authorities said Thursday.

The teen, who had a driver's license, was charged with reckless operation of a vehicle following the crash on Interstate 20 near Calhoun, Louisiana, at 11 p.m. Wednesday, said state police spokesman Michael Reichardt. The driver, who was not identified, and two additional passengers suffered minor injuries.

While en route to Orlando, Florida, from Terrell, Texas, the 16-year-old veered left onto the median and then tried to get back onto the highway but overcorrected, causing the 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe to roll over, police said.

Authorities identified the adults killed as Michael Hardman and his wife, Trudi Hardman, both primary-school teachers from Terrell, Texas, and three of their children: sons Dakota Watson, 15, and Adam Hardman, 7; and daughter Kaci Hardman, 4.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/d905286d9bcb4ad088df00f06fa4880e/5-die-crash-way-disney-world-police-say



Monroe, LA News-Star: Tributes pour in for Texas family involved in I-20 crash
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5 family members killed on 'dream trip' to Disney (Original Post) alp227 Nov 2014 OP
the poor kid & surviving family irisblue Nov 2014 #1
And they charge him with a crime? Comrade Grumpy Nov 2014 #2
I know right? Scairp Nov 2014 #5
That was my thought also Marrah_G Nov 2014 #7
His self guilt will be with him the rest of his life justamama83 Nov 2014 #20
I had that same thought. NutmegYankee Nov 2014 #22
Of course. What, they should ignore the fact that he was responsible for MADem Nov 2014 #37
Perhaps the vehicle's owner or the parent designating the driver... Orsino Nov 2014 #54
Sure, and that will happen in front of a judge. MADem Nov 2014 #57
The victims bear some responsibility- LiberalElite Nov 2014 #79
Yes, but the driver should have said "This car isn't moving until MADem Nov 2014 #82
He's a kid nt LiberalElite Nov 2014 #83
Yes, he's a kid who was operating a vehicle that has potential to kill people. MADem Nov 2014 #85
He's a kid in a car with adults in it. What LiberalElite Nov 2014 #86
Yeah, THE END all right--the adults are dead. MADem Nov 2014 #87
He likely won't get jail time. joshcryer Nov 2014 #38
Had he been following the laws? Live and Learn Nov 2014 #44
There Are No RobinA Nov 2014 #45
I hear you. liberalmuse Nov 2014 #58
+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #68
If he's left off without having to answer, the guilt will eat him up. MADem Nov 2014 #84
Drowsy driving falls under reckless driving. joshcryer Nov 2014 #64
It add further hardships to an individual's life that just lost his entire family. Live and Learn Nov 2014 #66
You actually are not supposed to drive while tired Ash_F Nov 2014 #65
Yes we know, being human is now illegal. nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #67
Hey, no kidding. Anything should be legal if it only involves your family, right? Dreamer Tatum Nov 2014 #52
No, everything should have severe legal consequences Live and Learn Nov 2014 #69
Falling asleep at the wheel isn't what I would call innocent it it was my family killed. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #72
He is 16. How long did he have his license? LisaL Nov 2014 #74
16 or 60 if you get behind the wheel to drive you are responsible. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #76
I still remember all the shocked reaction about SUVs flipping over..... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Nov 2014 #9
Is not wearing seat belts a "freedom" issue in Texas? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #14
Everyone must wear seat belts here awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #21
Yeah,...but is there a culture of "patriots" who refuse to wear them? Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #23
I haven't heard about it... awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #26
Yeah,...buncha heroes. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #33
a family gets killed and you are looking to make jabs at people in Texas snooper2 Nov 2014 #56
That'll change when Texans stop wearing stupid as a badge of honor. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #61
last time I checked that honor belonged to the state of Mississippi snooper2 Nov 2014 #62
We're preparing to hold the world's largest mud wrestling match.... Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #63
That's really offensive, rudolph the red Nov 2014 #70
Texans are famous for "sweeping attacks" when they drag someone behind their pickup trucks. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #71
Double-down on the stupid, good for you! rudolph the red Nov 2014 #75
That's part of my charm. Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2014 #77
They were probably asleep, imo. joshcryer Nov 2014 #40
My niece borrowed our Expedition to drive to Gulf Shores last spring: Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2014 #15
I always find it interesting that Connecticut has no helmet law, but mandatory seat belts. NutmegYankee Nov 2014 #25
A case can be made that it is good policy to keep the driver in his seat and passengers ..... Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2014 #30
I don't disagree with seat belt laws. I just am amazed that there is no helmet law. NutmegYankee Nov 2014 #31
Yes. I got ya. I agree. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2014 #32
SUVs are like electric guitar feedback rocktivity Nov 2014 #47
Indeed. They would all have lived if they had been wearing seatbelts. The Nay Nov 2014 #17
+1 nt Live and Learn Nov 2014 #43
+1 cosmicone Nov 2014 #11
I've owned them since 1985... Historic NY Nov 2014 #24
Your new SUV has something that the accident vehicle didn't have that May have saved them. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2014 #55
Stabili-trak was standard Historic NY Nov 2014 #78
Not sure what you mean by only loss of traction. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2014 #80
German automakers weren't holding their noses Blue_Tires Nov 2014 #27
They weren't wearing their seat belts. joshcryer Nov 2014 #39
How awful. LuvNewcastle Nov 2014 #4
^^^^Yeah!^^^^ SCVDem Nov 2014 #8
That's a 16-hour drive rocktivity Nov 2014 #6
They were going to Disney SCVDem Nov 2014 #13
Motels are getting extremely expensive Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #36
There are so many along that route - TBF Nov 2014 #60
That poor kid, what a terrible tragedy. greatlaurel Nov 2014 #10
.... 840high Nov 2014 #12
These adults thought it was a good idea lexington filly Nov 2014 #16
Me too. The parents rest their souls were the ones who made the mistake. arikara Nov 2014 #53
how horrible noiretextatique Nov 2014 #18
"was charged with reckless operation..." < That is ignorant and cruel if he wasn't intoxicated or jtuck004 Nov 2014 #19
I think the rofl smilie is a little tacky here itsrobert Nov 2014 #29
Torturing prisoners of war is a little tacky anywhere. But your passion for using the correct jtuck004 Nov 2014 #34
Sleep driving is negligent... joshcryer Nov 2014 #41
Driving while sleep deprived has been proven to as or more dangerious then DUI. Exultant Democracy Nov 2014 #73
You have no idea what I would see. If this was a long distance trucker or other professional who jtuck004 Nov 2014 #81
Horrific tragedy. montana_hazeleyes Nov 2014 #28
Sad. As a parent, I only let my kids drive incrementally the first couple years. TwilightGardener Nov 2014 #35
I feel the same way deutsey Nov 2014 #42
A guy in NYC ran over a 3 year old Amethyst Ring Nov 2014 #46
What a horrible story. LisaL Nov 2014 #49
At 16, the kid would have just gotten a driver's license recently. LisaL Nov 2014 #48
Especially overnight with TBF Nov 2014 #59
Adding a link. mahatmakanejeeves Nov 2014 #50
I don't understand charging him JonLP24 Nov 2014 #51

justamama83

(87 posts)
20. His self guilt will be with him the rest of his life
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:08 PM
Nov 2014

There is no punishment that our legal system could impose on this boy that will be more severe than the punishment he will put himself through. Hits home- my daughter just got her driver's permit- she will be 16 in a few weeks. Thoughts are with the survivors.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
37. Of course. What, they should ignore the fact that he was responsible for
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 05:07 AM
Nov 2014

these deaths?

How he's sentenced at the end of the day will depend on a lot of things--I'm sure the survivors will testify to the judge at his sentencing hearing and try to get him some sort of diversion program in lieu of prison time, but the fact that he is treated like anyone else who is responsible for a vehicular homicide is a good thing.

All too often vehicular homicides are shoved to the back burner. It's far too often treated as an accident even when there's evidence of clear negligence, like speeding or alcohol use.

If you've ever lost a relative to a reckless or careless driver, I think your attitude might be a bit different. No one wants the kid to be locked up and the key thrown away, but there needs to be an accounting for his conduct and an explanation for the survivors.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
54. Perhaps the vehicle's owner or the parent designating the driver...
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:40 PM
Nov 2014

...can get some small piece of the blame?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
57. Sure, and that will happen in front of a judge.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

Not sure who died in that accident, but one of those might be among that number.

It's helpful for the kid, too, to be called to account. Being required to say, go to a high school and talk about safe driving practices might be a "punishment" but it also is a guilt-assuager for the person responsible for those deaths.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
79. The victims bear some responsibility-
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:37 AM
Nov 2014

for not wearing seat belts. That was reckless on their part.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
82. Yes, but the driver should have said "This car isn't moving until
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:11 AM
Nov 2014

you buckle up." He's the operator, and he needs to take responsibility for not verifying that his passengers were secured.

The victims have already paid the ultimate price for their failure to abide by the law, anyway...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
85. Yes, he's a kid who was operating a vehicle that has potential to kill people.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:26 AM
Nov 2014

He needs to answer for his conduct.

He was old enough to drive that car, he was old enough to be licensed to operate it, and he took responsibility for those passengers when he got behind the wheel.

You know, a fourteen year old "kid" murdered a young teacher in a MA town--in a school bathroom, in fact-- a year or so ago. He dragged her body to the woods in a rolling garbage can and committed indecencies upon her corpse. He then stole the dead woman's credit card and went out to the films and a meal.

This "kid" was put in juvvie awaiting trial, where he nearly killed a facility worker by attempting strangulation.

Should he be let go because "he's just a kid?"

Actions have consequences. A good judge will scale the consequences to be appropriate to the offense.

LiberalElite

(14,691 posts)
86. He's a kid in a car with adults in it. What
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:31 AM
Nov 2014

about the adults doing what they're supposed to do? THE END

MADem

(135,425 posts)
87. Yeah, THE END all right--the adults are dead.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:49 AM
Nov 2014

The "kid" took responsibility for his leg of the trip. He exercised poor judgment and paid dearly for it. Now he'll go before a judge who will decide the appropriate accounting for him.

"He's a kid--THE END" is what's wrong with a small subset of "kids" today. They expect Mommy and Daddy to bail them out. They assume there will be no consequences for their actions because their battles have always been fought for them--their helicopter parents will fight with their teachers, their after-school employers, do their homework for them, write their college entrance essays, and they feel no need to take any responsibility.

That said, the law is that when you cause the death of another, you ANSWER for it. "The End." You can not like that all you want, it doesn't change what is going to happen.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
38. He likely won't get jail time.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 05:14 AM
Nov 2014

But what he did was reckless and justice is blind. It doesn't matter if your entire family dies because of your actions and you didn't mean it and all that, what matters is that you follow the laws.

Had he been following the laws his family would be alive right now and at Disney World. Granted, everyone else in the car was not wearing a seat belt (likely asleep), and the vehicle looked quite survivable had they been...

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
44. Had he been following the laws?
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 07:48 AM
Nov 2014

What law is that? Don't drive while tired? Hell, half the working population doe that every day. The kid was 16 years old.

It was an accident (a tragic one albeit it). Whatever happened to treating accidents as accidents and human behavior as human?

RobinA

(9,878 posts)
45. There Are No
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 09:21 AM
Nov 2014

accidents in these delightful times we live in. SOMEONE MUST PAY. Even a 16 year old in over his head. Makes me want to crawl into bed, pull up the covers, and stay there forever. Who knows if today is the day some moment of inattention or poor decision obvious only in hindsight will land you in trouble with the law.

liberalmuse

(18,670 posts)
58. I hear you.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:03 PM
Nov 2014

Armchair judges, juries and executioners in internet comments sections are not going to be the ones who decide this child's fate, and thank the gods for that.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
84. If he's left off without having to answer, the guilt will eat him up.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:19 AM
Nov 2014

If he is accountable under the law, and is required to go speak to new drivers/high school kids about driving while tired, not checking pax seat belts, etc., he will at least begin to feel that he has paid society for the inadvertent tragedy he caused.

When people mess up, even when they don't intend it, there should be an accounting. It doesn't have to be cruel, but it should be just. Actions have consequences.

Someone killed my family member a year ago, driving recklessly. They didn't set out intending to kill anyone, they did want to drive an eight cylinder sports car at twice the speed limit on a narrow country road, though.

We're still not even CLOSE to a trial--those Big Money lawyers (and this driver's family is rich-rich-rich) sure know how to kick the can down the road. They think we'll just tire and fade away. They think wrong.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
64. Drowsy driving falls under reckless driving.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 07:03 PM
Nov 2014

Though some states have passed laws making it negligent homicide if you kill someone while drowsy driving.

100,000 crashes are due to drowsy driving and 1,500 deaths.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/summaries-of-current-drowsy-driving-laws.aspx

As I said, he won't get jail time and the charges may even be dropped, but it just had to automatically happen. It makes people think. "Wow, that guy killed his whole family and got charged... maybe I shouldn't drive while drowsy either."

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
66. It add further hardships to an individual's life that just lost his entire family.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 09:10 PM
Nov 2014

Anyone with even an ounce of empathy could see the futility and utter wrongness with charging him for anything.

By the way, the original article was incorrect.

The 16-year-old was cited with careless operation, a misdemeanor, not reckless operation of a vehicle, which is a felony.

http://www.chron.com/news/us/article/5-die-in-crash-on-way-to-Disney-World-police-say-5906452.php

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
65. You actually are not supposed to drive while tired
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 07:09 PM
Nov 2014

This case serves as an example.

I am not saying the kid should do jail time though.

Driving long distances can be hypnotic. I have felt it myself. He is young and probably had very little experience with this phenomenon.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
72. Falling asleep at the wheel isn't what I would call innocent it it was my family killed.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 11:12 PM
Nov 2014

Driving while sleep impaired has been proven repeatedly to be as dangerous or more dangerous then driving drunk.

Not that this kid need to do hard time, but the justice system should do it's thing when there is a reckless homicide.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
74. He is 16. How long did he have his license?
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 11:15 PM
Nov 2014

He likely had no experience to relay on.
Why punish the kid for something he likely should have been allowed to do in a first place (driving long distances on a highway)?

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
76. 16 or 60 if you get behind the wheel to drive you are responsible.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 11:19 PM
Nov 2014

Not that he needs to do hard time, but he committed a crime and a lot of people died.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
3. I still remember all the shocked reaction about SUVs flipping over.....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:54 PM
Nov 2014

They were sold as "safer" than cars when in fact they were more dangerous.

Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #3)

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
26. I haven't heard about it...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 PM
Nov 2014

but I am sure there are plenty who don't wear them just because they are supposed to.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
62. last time I checked that honor belonged to the state of Mississippi
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 04:11 PM
Nov 2014

Oh, and stop draining Lake Mead I might want to go skiing there someday LOL

 

rudolph the red

(666 posts)
70. That's really offensive,
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 09:20 PM
Nov 2014

You just love to make sweeping attacks on people based on your own stupidity it seems.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
15. My niece borrowed our Expedition to drive to Gulf Shores last spring:
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:17 PM
Nov 2014

I made her email this video to all her passengers before they could take the truck:

https://m.

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
25. I always find it interesting that Connecticut has no helmet law, but mandatory seat belts.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:18 PM
Nov 2014

Granted, I don't need a law to tell me to wear one. It's just an obvious step to take and I feel weird without it. However, if you drive through the state on a nice day and some guy passes you on a motorbike without a helmet, it really is legal. In other news, if you need an organ donation, we seem to have plenty of donors here...

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
30. A case can be made that it is good policy to keep the driver in his seat and passengers .....
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:35 PM
Nov 2014

..... off the driver's head in the event of an accident that doesn't result in the vehicle coming to a complete stop.

I'm not proud of the fact I once ran over the short retaining wall/curb by my parking spot, causing my truck to jump and lurch forward, causing my unrestrained coffee holding carcass to slide forward on the leather seat, driving my foot further in to the gas pedal, causing my truck to peel out across the alley, almost driving through my neighbor's garage.

I was in a big hurry and cut it too short trying to go around the 6ish inch high wall. Coffee in one hand and the wheel in the other. No seat belt on yet. Luckily there was no one walking or driving by. All I got was a red face and a fucked up running board - one of those heavy gauge pipes ended up with a big crease in the middle.

NutmegYankee

(16,178 posts)
31. I don't disagree with seat belt laws. I just am amazed that there is no helmet law.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:39 PM
Nov 2014

So many motorcycle crashes would be survivable with one versus without.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
47. SUVs are like electric guitar feedback
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:01 PM
Nov 2014

Last edited Sat Nov 4, 2017, 11:45 PM - Edit history (1)

Extra dangerous in the hands of amateurs.

I remember entering a cloverleaf on the (New Jersey) Garden State Parkway on an misty day. I saw an inverted SUV, a police car, and a man talking to a policeman. "What's wrong with this picture?" I thought. "Where's the car the SUV collided with?" Silly me...


rocktivity

Nay

(12,051 posts)
17. Indeed. They would all have lived if they had been wearing seatbelts. The
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:46 PM
Nov 2014

vehicle is nowhere near destroyed -- the passenger compartment is undamaged.

 

cosmicone

(11,014 posts)
11. +1
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:09 PM
Nov 2014

I pity those who drive the Yukons, Tahoes, Expeditions and Excursions. They are a symbol of American lack of aesthetics, beauty and gluttony.

European cars are far better designed and made. Unfortunately, BMW, Mercedes and Porsche have all succumbed (probably holding their noses) to the American SUV craze.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
24. I've owned them since 1985...
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:13 PM
Nov 2014

the new 2015 actually gets more mileage than most cars. They are built on a full frame. I have full curtain air bags and more safety stuff on this than any previous one I've ever owned. Any one could have had this accident its fairly common, panic over correct and it will go over, not just these type vehicles. It appears there was air bag deployment but if your not buckled in your flying around inside and will be ejected out the window. This vehicle would have had full seat belts should harness from front to the rear. It appears they even had the third row seat in use...

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
55. Your new SUV has something that the accident vehicle didn't have that May have saved them.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:43 PM
Nov 2014

Electronic stability control. Mandated in all cars in 2012.

I've read up on it after the feature saved my ass when somebody stopped on the interstate in what was probably a panic due to rapidly deteriorating near white out conditions. I was in the process of slowing down as the snow really kicked up when I saw brake lights. I didn't realize the guy had stopped completely until I was right on him doing 50mph. I swerved hard left, then back right and the car apparently lost traction when the ESC kicked in. My car handled like a go cart on a track. The noise the brakes emitted made me think I clipped the other car. It was the ABS using the brakes to steer the car.

ESC is meant to help in these single car over steer accidents. The NTSB estimates ESC will save about 4500 lives per year. Statistics show 67% reduction of these types of accidents in SUVs with ESC.

"Thanks, nanny-state, job-killing, commie pinko government regulators"

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,273 posts)
80. Not sure what you mean by only loss of traction.
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 12:48 AM
Nov 2014

ESC helps correct over steer and under steer. It senses inputs in to the steering wheel and uses brakes to achieve desired result in the event of loss of traction.

It's not only traction control that keeps your wheels from spinning on acceleration. Although they all work with the ABS and may retard engine power.

And yes it is standard. It is mandated on all passenger vehicles after 2012.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
27. German automakers weren't holding their noses
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:19 PM
Nov 2014

it's a very lucrative market to get into, and if you think BMW, Mercedes and Porsche/Audi/VW weren't sprinting full-speed to get their SUVs to the dealers and collect those massive profits (which in turn have funded the R+D on the rest of their product lines), then I don't know what to say...

Nevermind the fact that when a 16-year-old falls asleep at the wheel on the interstate, the outcome is going to be pretty similar no matter which automaker's badge is in the grille...

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
39. They weren't wearing their seat belts.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 05:16 AM
Nov 2014

Not disagreeing but if you look at the photo in the article everyone should've survived that with maybe some whiplash. It's quite an unfortunate accident. Everyone appears to have been flung from the vehicle because they were probably asleep.

edit: my bad, I see another poster pointed this out... disregard.

LuvNewcastle

(16,820 posts)
4. How awful.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 09:57 PM
Nov 2014

The police shouldn't have given that kid a ticket. He just lost most of his family, and he's probably going to spend his life blaming himself for this tragedy. I don't think he was being reckless, unless the toxicology report shows something in his system. People fall asleep at the wheel sometimes. It doesn't mean they are reckless. Shit happens that we can't control sometimes. Besides, I think they crammed too many people into that Tahoe. The parents should have at least made all the kids wear their seat belts, too.

rocktivity

(44,555 posts)
6. That's a 16-hour drive
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:02 PM
Nov 2014

Last edited Fri Mar 18, 2016, 05:17 PM - Edit history (2)

The distance between Terrell and Orlando is about 1,050 miles — a 16-hour drive. The family left their home in Terrell about 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. Wednesday, said Michael Hardman's brother, Timothy Hardman, meaning the accident occurred early in the journey.

It also means that the kid most likely didn't have the experience to spend three hours behind the wheel of an SUV after dark. One of the adults should have been awake and co-piloting him anyway -- did he at least take a nap before the departure? The adults should have driven first, and I hope they'd planned to spend the night at a motel along the way, despite the expense.


rocktivity
 

SCVDem

(5,103 posts)
13. They were going to Disney
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:11 PM
Nov 2014

That's expensive for me.

This trip may have been made by saving change. Tag team driving saves money.

I hope he finds some peace.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
36. Motels are getting extremely expensive
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:35 AM
Nov 2014

I was just talking to someone who had just come back from Montana and Idaho, and he said that basic motel rates there were close to $100 for a single. The last two or three times I stayed at a hotel/motel in the US (single), it cost me more than $100 each time. And those were just run-of-the-mill motels-- nothing fancy, unless "roach-free" is considered "fancy" these days.

TBF

(31,922 posts)
60. There are so many along that route -
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:34 PM
Nov 2014

we've driven it at least a dozen times. We have never made it through without stopping (we've tried and gotten stopped by rain, fog, or just plain too tired). If you can afford Disney for a week at $100 day/per person you can afford Motel 6 for 6-8 hours of sleep. I don't blame the kid and know he is going to have a hard time dealing with this. The adults in this story sadly made a very bad decision

greatlaurel

(2,004 posts)
10. That poor kid, what a terrible tragedy.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:08 PM
Nov 2014

That is just too much for any kid to have to handle. My condolences to the family.

Those SUV's are so unstable and are very difficult to control even for experiences drivers.

That poor kid.

lexington filly

(239 posts)
16. These adults thought it was a good idea
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 10:41 PM
Nov 2014

to make an inexperienced, green 16 yr old driver responsible for all their lives???
Therein lies the only crime that I see.

arikara

(5,562 posts)
53. Me too. The parents rest their souls were the ones who made the mistake.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 02:38 PM
Nov 2014

Everybody asleep without seat belts, with a young inexperienced driver at the wheel. And the cops are charging him? The boy has to live with this for the rest of his life, that will be punishment enough. The poor kid.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
19. "was charged with reckless operation..." < That is ignorant and cruel if he wasn't intoxicated or
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:00 PM
Nov 2014

didn't exhibit some other behavior that would relate to negligence.

But, hey, United States of Torture, right? We just can't get enough...and then we complain about how terrorists actions are pointless.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
34. Torturing prisoners of war is a little tacky anywhere. But your passion for using the correct
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:13 AM
Nov 2014

Internet salt in a person's text is noted. I'll reserve mine for things that really hurt people, as opposed to things that people choose to be hurt by.

Sadly, I can't think of a more appropriate emoticon, since that is my reaction to clowns. Perhaps you have one, which you are free to use, in regards to state-sponsored torture, done for very good reasons we were told, by the self-acknowledged most important Democracy in the world. At least by nearly everyone I have ever asked.

ymmv

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
41. Sleep driving is negligent...
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 05:22 AM
Nov 2014

...it's true that he shouldn't be punished for it, and probably won't be (either no jail time or charges dropped so he can move on, if he can), but justice is blind.

People on the scene ascertained what happened, and determined what charges were appropriate. It'll be up to the DA or judge / jury to determine his fate from that point.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
73. Driving while sleep deprived has been proven to as or more dangerious then DUI.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 11:15 PM
Nov 2014

As we see here it was fatal. If the person who had fallen asleep at the wheel and killed that family had been in another car I doubt you would see an issue with it.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
81. You have no idea what I would see. If this was a long distance trucker or other professional who
Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:11 AM
Nov 2014

violated rules, then there would be negligence.

Having worked as a medic in a large city, I actually do have more than a little experience at digging people and their parts out of cars smashed by negligent drivers. You? If not, any experience beyond a keyboard? Not discounting your opinion, which you certainly have a right to, just noting the lack of any content.

"Driving while sleep deprived" sounds intentional, like he pulled out a weapon and killed them. It's criminal when it is intentional, but it is how we live our lives, and what we teach the kids to do. I see no formal report which would indicate you know jack shit about his condition, so I guess we can discount that. Similar comments are made by ableists against other common human "frailties", so nothing new there. He may have merely fallen asleep after too much adrenalin, being overly excited for days about a pending trip with the family and a new responsibility. Or perhaps he had a medical condition that no one has discovered yet.

But this is a stupid game. If, using your guidelines, someone is alert and driving within their rules, should be fine. Like the sheriff here who mowed down the 15 year old kid in the crosswalk on his bike a few months back, dead and bloody on the side of the road.

No problem, they said. The deputy, doing 60 mph on surface streets in the dark with no safety lights, had the green. No fault, kid shouldn't have been there.

See how silly that is?

Here's a thought. Unless that kid has a few years of on the road experience, which, tragically, was far more common buy 16 in past decades than it is now, and working swing shifts instead of going to school during the day, those parents engineered exactly what happened here.

The problem is biology, not negligence.

You probably won't write anything else I want to read.

montana_hazeleyes

(3,424 posts)
28. Horrific tragedy.
Thu Nov 20, 2014, 11:34 PM
Nov 2014

I feel so bad for all involved.

This poor teen will carry this his whole life. Hope he has a good support system to help him.

In Calif. we have seat belt law. All in vehicle must wear one. And the cops look out for it too. I wish all states would do this.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
35. Sad. As a parent, I only let my kids drive incrementally the first couple years.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:42 AM
Nov 2014

Back and forth to school (5 miles), back and forth to the supermarket or their jobs (10 miles), that sort of thing. There's no way I would have expected or wanted them to drive even one leg of an interstate trip with the whole family in the car. Just not enough experience.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
42. I feel the same way
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 06:06 AM
Nov 2014

I don't want to sound like I'm blaming anyone here, but as a parent in that situation I would've made sure everyone had their seatbelts on throughout the drive and I would not have let my 16 year-old son drive late at night.

I would've let him drive a part of the journey during the day with either me or my wife up front with him. If we were going to drive over night (not sure I'd do that, personally, but I understand hotels are expensive), I would've tried to sleep during the day and take the wheel at night myself.

It was a terribly tragic incident that may well have been avoided. That poor kid will have to deal with this the rest of his life; that just tears me up to think about it.

Amethyst Ring

(15 posts)
46. A guy in NYC ran over a 3 year old
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 09:44 AM
Nov 2014

and got no jail time, was charged with no crime, and his 'trial' lasted all of 47 seconds. http://www.wnyc.org/story/little-girl-lost-and-justice-denied/

He was awake, broad daylight and not under the influence -- so apparently it wasn't a crime. I would have said that made it *more* of a crime but I'm not a traffic-court judge.

Charging this kid with anything is absurd. The real responsibility lies with the parents and they have already paid.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
48. At 16, the kid would have just gotten a driver's license recently.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:17 PM
Nov 2014

Doesn't sound like he was ready to be driving long hours on a highway.

TBF

(31,922 posts)
59. Especially overnight with
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 03:29 PM
Nov 2014

everyone else asleep. We've done that trip several times (TX-FL). A few times we've said "let's try to drive straight through" and we've never accomplished it. Either there's fog through Mississippi, traffic slows us down in Baton Rouge, or simply get too tired and know it's time to stop. It was a little dicey after Katrina with hotels but now most have been repaired so there are many, many places to stop at the last minute (and these are affordable interstate motels - not the pricey downtown hotels).

mahatmakanejeeves

(56,897 posts)
50. Adding a link.
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 12:46 PM
Nov 2014

I hadn't seen this thread until now.

Horrific crash kills 5 family members on 'dream trip' to Disney World

Published November 21, 2014
Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS – Michael and Trudi Hardman had always talked about taking their six children to Disney World, and just a week before Thanksgiving, it seemed their "dream trip" was to be a reality.

But just a little more than three hours after they took to the road Wednesday night, their SUV veered off a highway and rolled over in Louisiana, killing them and three of the kids.

Police believe the couple's 16-year-old son apparently fell asleep behind the wheel of the SUV en route from Terrell, Texas, to Orlando, Florida.
....

The teen driver veered left onto the median and then tried to get back onto the highway but overcorrected, causing the 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe to roll over, police said.

So far this is just speculation, but the wreck appears to have occurred due to a combination of drowsiness and inexperience.

This might not be of national importance other than the warning to be alert and call upon your experience when behind the wheel in the days ahead.

It's sad all around.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
51. I don't understand charging him
Fri Nov 21, 2014, 01:57 PM
Nov 2014

He was likely tired which is similar to intoxication impairment but he isn't the adult to make the call to pull over or find a place to rest.

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