Cleveland to release video of boy shot by officer

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Cleveland to release video of boy shot by officer
By MARK GILLISPIE, Associated Press | November 26, 2014 | Updated: November 26, 2014 12:39pm

CLEVELAND (AP) — City police plan to release the names of the two officers involved in the shooting death of a 12-year-old boy, along with dispatch calls and a surveillance video that authorities say clearly shows what happened.
The evidence and names will be made public at a briefing early Wednesday afternoon.

Tamir Rice died at a hospital after being shot Saturday by an officer who had responded to a call about someone with a gun at a Cleveland playground. Police say Tamir was told to raise his hands but instead reached into his waistband for what appeared to be a firearm. Police later determined it was an airsoft gun, which shoots small plastic pellets, that did not have an orange safety indicator at the end of the barrel.

Police Chief Calvin Williams told Cleveland City Council members at a safety committee hearing Wednesday morning that police will be making the evidence public "so that people can come to their own conclusions."

The family's attorneys saw the video Monday. They later called for the full footage to be released publicly. City officials had withheld the video, saying that it was evidence and that they wanted to be sensitive to the family, the community and the officer, whom they described as distraught.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Cleveland-to-release-video-of-boy-shot-by-officer-5918940.php

[gwheezie]

1. MSNBC ran the tape 10m ago

The boy is walking around the police roll up and literally in 3 secs they shoot him

[FreakinDJ]

2. All the KKK Law and Order types want this

As demonstrated on this forum by all the police apologist

[Scairp]

23. Try 1 1/2 seconds

There is no way they had time to shout orders to drop it or show his hands before they used deadly force. They also said he was 20 years old when they called it in. Can't those assholes tell a child from an adult? Jesus.

[Comrade Grumpy]

3. Where is the video?

[uppityperson]

4. Here is a link and holy shit. They drove up next to him and shot him. No time to do anything.

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/11/26/tamir-rice-shooting-video-released/19530745/

[Judi Lynn]

9. Doesn't take long to murder a child, does it?

They had the element of surprise, as well as the only weapons.

My God.

Thank you for your quick skill in providing this video. Thank you, uppityperson.

[ManiacJoe]

12. Why do we get an iPhone recording off a computer screen

when the actual video is available?!?!?!?


Regardless, this does not paint a good image for the cops....

[uppityperson]

13. Because it was the first one I found. Sorry for trying to post one fast. here's a youtube link to it

Next time how about instead of scolding and smacking your head you post a better link? You are welcome.

[ManiacJoe]

18. Sorry, not you but the media.

The youtube video is the same iPhone recording but with audio.

Lets see the actual MP4 file that was playing on the computer.

[uppityperson]

21. Ah, sorry, am touchy today for a known reason.

[uppityperson]

14. Here is youtube link, better than the other one which was media site.

[coyote]

17. Looks like a god damn execution to me. N/T

[tweeternik]

20. He shot too fast!! WTF!! Kid was trying

to show them it was a toy!

[Recursion]

51. That's a fucking drive-by. Outrageous. (nt)

Two

[HereSince1628]

5. The full footage...ell, that may not be the full history, but it's damning

If you think a person is armed with a gun, why pull a car within 3-4 ft of him?

Why give yourself fractions of seconds to jump out of the car door unholstering and shooting?

Whatever happened to stop at a safe, non-intimidating distance and rationally monitoring and directing a suspect person from the protection of the car?

[uppityperson]

6. Seriously, holy shit.

[George II]

7. We don't know what happened in the minutes just before the car entered the picture....

....maybe they did stop far away when they told him to drop the gun, maybe they got back in their car for protection to approach closer?

We don't know a lot about this, and the video doesn't answer the questions that are still out there.

[uppityperson]

15. The story says they yelled at him as they drove up.

[George II]

30. The story over the weekend was that witnesses said he was playing on a swing....

....THAT is obviously not true.

But we don't know what transpired in the couple of minutes before this video - who knows what was going on? I seriously doubt that the police just raced to the scene, pulled up, and shot.

LOTS of details are missing.

[uppityperson]

38. I don't doubt what the video shows and there is no evidence or report of them doing other than

what the video shows.

[Judi Lynn]

10. So true. n/t

[Adrahil]

60. I agree with this...

In tech situation to cops created, the kid DID go to his waistband for a gun-like object..... But why the fuck do that? They forced a very high speed confrontation. It didn't have to go that way. Out policing tactics suck.

[bobthedrummer]

8. I played with bb guns with my friends at that age in a housing project in Milwaukee. We weren't

murdered.

[Judi Lynn]

11. The cops may not have been as well-trained to drop children in their tracks, yet. n/t

[KatyMan]

22. Well, are you white? n/t

n/t

[bobthedrummer]

67. Are you part of the Rainbow Coalition of Racists, KatyMan? We were diverse, kids. n/t

[George II]

31. You grew up in a different era, as did I - back then we didn't worry about what the guy....

....next to us had in his backpack, either.

It's a whole new world out there.

[Judi Lynn]

16. Cleveland Police: 1.5 to 2 seconds Between Car Arrival and Shooting

Cleveland Police: 1.5 to 2 seconds Between Car Arrival and Shooting

http://www.nbcnews.com/watch/nbc-news/cleveland-police-1-5-to-2-seconds-between-car-arrival-and-shooting-364064835648

(Short video clip with Cleveland police chief in press moment regarding the killing)

[turbinetree]

19. Deaths by Gun

Today: 2 people will have been killed by a gun per hour
48 will die before the end of the 24 hour day,
17,520 people will die within a year.

As Ted Kennedy said on the floor of the senate on another subject which can be used in this context with this incident "STOP THE MADNESS NOW".
What is the police training now: Shoot first and ask questions later, are they that paranoid, and who created this society to be this way.
I mean really who is responsible?

[christx30]

24. I'd be ok with banning police from having weapons.

They seem to do an awful lot of shooting. Though, with the way they have been gearing up, I don't see that happening any time ever.

[cstanleytech]

27. The vast majority of shooting related deaths are not caused by police though

so unless you can also somehow confiscate all the guns in the country banning guns from the police probably wont have much of an effect on the overall number of deaths due to being shot.

[George II]

32. There are roughly 400 shootings a year involving police, meaning that....

about 17,100 shootings do NOT involve the police.

[Recursion]

54. Well, two-thirds of those 17,100 are people shooting themselves

So that leaves 5700 shootings.

[George II]

58. Still belying the contention that police "seem to do an awful lot of shooting" - 400 to 5700? And..

...I question your 2/3 (5700) statistic. In 2009 there were more than 6300 handgun homicides, in 2010 there were more than 8000 homicides using firearms.

[Recursion]

59. AYFKM? 120K police officers -> 400. 300M Americans -> 5700?

That means there 333 homicides per police officer, as opposed to 1.9 homicides per civilian.

[NickB79]

25. Sorry, but the video does show the kid reaching down towards the BB gun in his pants

I'd imagine a report of a kid with a handgun on a playground would elicit a pretty rapid response by police, so driving up next to the kid and yelling "HANDS UP" before you're even out of the car isn't really abnormal in such a situation. Could the police have stopped further out and walked up to him instead? Maybe, but if you're in the mindset that this could potentially be another school shooting in the making, coming in rapidly and yelling out the car window makes sense. And if the kid still reached for the BB gun in his waistband as the police walked up, he would have still been shot. The toy gun he was holding, as most of those fucking airsoft guns are, was VERY realistic, and I fault no one for mistaking it for the real thing. I fault the assholes that sell such things as toys for kids to play with.

The fact that it only took a few seconds to occur doesn't say much, as most police shootings are over in a few seconds. Extended gun battles and standoffs are something you're more likely to see in a movie than real life.

[BronxBoy]

29. We're sick of hearing....

Excuses about why our kids are being gunned down by the polic

[George II]

33. Aren't we sick of hearing about gang shootings in gang hangouts (which this was)?

[BronxBoy]

34. ???????

What are you talking about?

[christx30]

35. Meaning that at the time of the shooting,

the cops had no idea who this person was. Is he a good kid playing with a toy? Or is he a gang member looking to kill someone from a rival gang. The cops had no idea if this was an airsoft gun, or a real weapon. They had seconds to decide what was going to happen. They get a report that says someone has a weapon in the area. They roll up and tell the person matching the description to raise his hands. This person reaches for his waist, where they can see the handle of the toy weapon, and the cops open fire. If he had kept his hands in view and let the cops take it, he would be alive today. He may have been a good kid, but he made a terrible mistake, and paid for it with his life.
I'm usually the last guy to defend the cops. I don't trust them in the least. But based on the video, I'm going to have to call this as not a crime.

[BronxBoy]

36. Yada...Yada...Yada....

At what point will you see the pain if People of color and call it a crime?

[christx30]

39. I'm not talking about the pain of people of color.

I'm talking about the facts of this case. The cops heard a report about a guy on a playground with a gun. They aren't going to say "Based on the historical treatment of African Americans in the US, we should do XYZ." They are going to check it out to prevent a possible gang related or school shooting.
Turn it around. If they had done nothing, and this guy turned out to be another Adam Lanza and he had gunned down 10 kids, what would you say? "The police were cowards that didn't stop this murderer!"
The fact is that this kid made a mistake. When you reach into your waistline the cops are going to think you are about to shoot them and they will try to kill you first.

[BronxBoy]

40. Yada..:Yada...Yada

None or your post makes any sense.

[christx30]

43. I'd say it makes more sense than

"Yada..:Yada...Yada"

What's hard to understand? I can't explain it any clearer than what I already did. The kid messed up.

[booley]

64. They couldn't have parked a bit farther away?

Even if the kid had been another "another adam lanza" that would have allowed the cops to make sure they understood the situation and still be able to take care of the situation if it turned violent.

Ignoring race, it looks like the police forced a confrontation when they could have de-escalated the situation.

Sorry but saying this kid might have killed ten people in some hypothetical seems less important then the fact that the cops did kill this one kid

[LanternWaste]

71. More accurately, merely your interpretation of some of the facts.

"I'm talking about the facts of this case..."

More accurately, merely your interpretation of some of the facts.

[liberalhistorian]

45. Then maybe they should have tried to, you know, actually

do their fucking job and assess the situation first before taking less than two seconds to shoot a child first and ask no questions later. But they don't do their jobs anymore. They just point and shoot.

[christx30]

56. No, the cops did as expected in this case.

This kid should not of been out in public holding a replica gun of any kind. This is exactly why I would never let my kids play with guns like that especially in a stupid park. In this day and age, anyone with half a brain knows that cops will not hesitate to kill you. Right or wrong, that is just the way it is these days.and then when they told him to put "your hands above your head", he reached for the gut. That was a huge mistake on his part. You can second-guess the cops all you want but the fact the matter is if the kid had put his hands above his head as instructed he would still be breathing right now.
Your argument seems to be, "the storm shouldn't be here!" My argument is, "the storm is fucking here, deal with it." You don't scream at the hurricane. You hide from it. Don't carry guns in public. If a cop tells you to do something, you do it and argue about it in court.
The police these days are not actual human beings anymore. They should be regarded as wounded, scared animals. Give them a wide berth and don't give then a reason to kill you. Keep this up until there is enough political pressure for our lawmakers to do something about it.

[SunDrop23]

68. Well stated (nfm)

[uppityperson]

57. Why did "they have seconds"? Because they didn't take the time to assess the situation, just drove

in fast yelling. They were there less than 2 seconds before Tamir was shot.

What other options did they have? How about stop a distance away and yell? Take their time to notice it was a kid? Give the kid time to do what they asked?

[Judi Lynn]

37. He was a one boy gang? Is that it? n/t

[George II]

41. The playground in which this took place is a known gang hangout.........

...http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014950831#post11

And he wasn't the only person in that park at the time.

[BronxBoy]

42. OK.......

Where are the other people???

[liberalhistorian]

47. So black children can't go to a park

anymore without being considered to be in a gang or up to no good? Sigh.

[George II]

49. Who said anything even CLOSE to that?

[liberalhistorian]

46. Well, he WAS black, you know.

So I guess that answers the question in the police's mind and the poster's.

[George II]

50. Ditto above, who said anything even CLOSE to that? I never mentioned or implied race.

[Recursion]

52. Not particularly. That was 20 years ago. The homicide rate is down two-thirds since then.

The streets are safer than any time since before WWI right now. There's absolutely no need for police (and civilians) to have this siege mentality.

[uppityperson]

55. Less than 2 seconds does not give him time to even understand what is being yelled. At 3:30 pm, Sat.

He had no time to understand what was being yelled at him before he was shot. "The fact that it only took a few seconds to occur" says a HELL of a lot when the cops drove too fast too close and didn't give him time to do what he could barely hear them yelling at him.


And " this could potentially be another school shooting in the making"? WTF? He was at a city park at 3:30 pm on a Saturday so how the hell does this become "another school shooting"?

3:30 pm Saturday, city park, becomes another "another school shooting in the making"?

[Adrahil]

61. That's true..... However...

Why did the cops force such an intense confrontation? The kid was very likely going to get the toy gun out of his waistband to show it to the cops. He was 12 and likely panicking, not thinking straight. This was a tragedy the cops old have handled very differently.

[HereSince1628]

63. Well his hands go down...reaching toward--is interpretation--towards the bb gun presumes

knowledge that the bb gun is there.

Consequently about 2/3s of the subject line is really post-hoc rationalization.

An officer jumping out of a car, and shooting as the first interaction is what is shown. At the time the cruiser is approaching 12 year old wasn't involved in any threatening act toward anyone.

The reaching for the gun thing is all interpretation forced to be made in haste by the on-rush of the officers. Their decision to be hasty took away all the degrees of freedom for rational consideration.

Some reaction that was rather slower and deliberate from a safe distance for the officers seems like an alternative that wasn't selected.

[workinclasszero]

26. Lets face it. Its open season on anyone in this country that is not white.

White men and women can walk around in public with REAL semi auto, fully loaded assault rifles designed to kill human beings quickly and efficiently and NOTHING BAD EVER HAPPENS TO THEM!

A black kid playing with a toy gun?

INSTANT execution by the police!

This is all happening because of the racial hate being promoted 24/7 by fox news, hate radio and the republican damned party. They are destroying this country with their filthy anti american hate!

[Judi Lynn]

28. I'll bet it's a last ditch effort to get all the gun loonies to freak out and commit genocide

before the WASP culture becomes clearly outnumbered through immigration, and the presence of descendants of a kidnapped and forcibly enslaved group of humans.

[liberalhistorian]

48. Here in South Dakota, it's been open season on

native Americans, especially males, for a long time. There are many recent cases of police shootings of unarmed Indian boys and men (one was shot in the back as he ran away-and the officer was not only not held accountable, but never even charged) wherein the police were never, and will never be, held accountable. Especially not with our current Indian-hating Attorney General. And nobody gives a shit.

[Ash_F]

44. There appears to be an accidental discharge as the officer tripped.

The same thing happened in Dallas a while ago.

This officer is lying. He could not control his weapon.

Negligent homicide.

[Recursion]

53. There are no "accidental discharges", there are "negligent discharges" (nt)

[Ash_F]

66. True. /nt

[Adrahil]

62. I dunno... I do think it was deliberate, but...

Why did the cops force such a violent confrontation? Why not pull up 50 yards away and use the PA? These aggressive tactics practically guarantee a violent outcome.

[Ash_F]

65. It is not uncommon.

First thing someone does as they lose balance is clench every muscle. That is why one of the primary rules of gun safety is not to put ones finger inside the trigger guard until just before firing.

Here is the video from the Dallas case. She even said "I'm sorry" the moment after but would later try to spin it as her being in fear for her life.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Suspect-Seeks-10-Million-Over-Dallas-Police-Shooting-284038881.html

[Adrahil]

69. interesting. That's one reason cops (and everyone really) are trained

to keep the boogerhook OFF the bang switch until you intend to fire.

Back when I did weapons training, we actually cocked an unloaded weapon the instructors would jostle and push us from behind to ensure we had learned to put our fingers where they belong. It's completely second nature to me now to keep my finger in the index position.

[Ash_F]

70. Thanks for the insight

It is good that you received such training. I wonder if police receive the same.