Video & Multimedia
Related: About this forumRing of Fire: Will Voting Machines Steal The Next Election?
This segment originally aired on the September 29th, 2013 episode of Ring of Fire on Free Speech TV. Theres been a lot of talk recently about voting rights, as Republicans are attempting to send America back to the Jim Crow era. But missing from our talks on voting is the problem of electronic voting machines. Ring of Fire guest host Farron Cousins speaks with investigative journalist Brad Friedman to give us an update on whats happening in the world of electronic voting.
More at Ring of Fire.
Stevepol
(4,234 posts)As the German Constitutional Court decided in (I believe) 2009, when the vote is counted in secret by these voting machines, and the average voter can't verify the vote without the assistance of some special expert or understand and thus trust the verification of the vote, YOU CANNOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY.
drynberg
(1,648 posts)The Voting Machines themselves are thrown out and paper ballots, hand-counted with all interested parties witnessing is installed in all districts. Who should start this process? How?
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)Suggest the RTA Election Was Rigged
Risner
Bill Risner observes Terry Goddard's
recount from behind glass.
J.T. Waldron
For the past seven years, Pima County used every conceivable legal maneuver to evade a simple audit and forensic exam of the 2006 RTA ballots. It's time to abandon formalities and refer to this two billion dollar bond election for what it is: a fraud perpetrated by the County against the people. Like the scandals we are inundated with on a national level, the hard lessons learned involve judicial corruption, selective justice and complicit media.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)all other issues are moot.
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)you should be given a printout of your vote complete with a voter ID number. After the votes are totaled they should be put out on the net and to the media and you could compare your ID to the way the vote was registered to make sure it was recorded correctly. If enough of them are recorded wrongly then the election could be called into question.
This is an extremely important subject. Thanks for the post.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)it could lead to vote buying or intimidation
and it does nothing to guarantee an accurate count
we have to get it right at the precinct level on election night
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)If I can go online and see how my vote was counted it certainly does. If say your church or all of DU were to do the same you would see irregularities. I don't by the vote buying and if intimidation is that bad then the precinct is corrupt anyway and you don't have free elections.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)to get a recount or an accurate count...read this flying about the az case,these activists have been suing for 7 years to count their votes with no luck so if you think getting 20 gals from the church together to check their vote reporting online( because there is no physical ballot to count) is going to help i don't know what to say
http://www.sweetremedy.tv/fatallyflawed/media/RTA_Fraud_Flyer_3_7_12.pdf
the right to a secret ballot is essential but once those ballots are cast we must count them in the open.....wether you buy it or not
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)precinct is going to just do the right thing I don't know what to say. Having a paper trail is the important thing and giving all the paper to be held be the riggers is not going to solve it.
You are not going to change my mind any more than I'm going to change yours. I didn't respond to your post you responded to mine. I never advocated a change having a secret ballot. The ID you are given could simply be a random number that only the user knows. Whether you buy it or not indeed!
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)election integrity..i want to work with them but having a paper trail is not enough...and having a receipt for your vote could lead to vote buying(as brad said in the video)
you said if enough people found irregularities that the results could be checked but i posted a couple of links that show irregularities happen all the time and still nothing is fixed or changed
your point about a backwater precinct still operating illegally is possible but that is why we need a better, more transparent system...and even if one small precinct trys to cheat with paper ballots at least the accurate count will only be off by a small amount of votes ,compared to a totally electronic system where thousands of votes can change or disappear instantly
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)You can type until your fingers bleed and I expect I could as well. The fact is I would like to know that my vote was recorded and counted the way I cast it and if I were able to look it up I could do that. No system I have seen proposed has address that glaring issue. I am not an advocate for electronic voting if that's the impression I gave. But I want to go one step further and if the system needs to be changed then why not change it for the better. Change seems to be a given. A small number of votes have decided many things lately and it seems to be getting worse.
Peace. I'll give you the last word.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)you said.. The fact is I would like to know that my vote was recorded and counted the way I cast it
with hand counted paper ballots...you could supervise every step...you would not only know that your vote was properly counted and assuming you followed the display of results,oversee the recording also...we would know the entire vote count was accurate and that is what is needed
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)...one, private, far rightwing-connected corporation, ES&S, which bought out Diebold. These e-voting systems are run on 'TRADE SECRET' programming code--code that the public is forbidden to review--with half the states doing NO AUDIT AT ALL of the machine vote counting totals and the other half doing a miserably inadequate 1% audit.
This system GUARANTEES vote counting fraud. There is NO OTHER REASON to have a system like this. The only question is, HOW is it being used?
And perhaps a further question, by WHOM? (Who is behind ES&S? We can start that investigation with the current Sec of Defense, Chuck Hagel, one of the founders of ES&S, which did the no-audit vote counting of his first Senate election.)
GUARANTEES vote counting fraud. Look at this Congress! Is it representative of the American people? It damn well ISN'T. Look at the nutball RW governor of Wisconsin--one of the most liberal states in the nation! Look around! The evidence is everywhere--yet there is "no evidence," because, guess what? The evidence--the ballots, the counting--has been REMOVED FROM THE PUBLIC VENUE.
The GOP terrorist attack on our government that we seeing today STARTED WITH the plague of 'TRADE SECRET' voting systems that were spread throughout the land during the 2002 to 2004 period.
What is most astonishing, and what still flabbergasts me to this day, is the SILENCE of our Democratic Party leadership--silence and complicity--on this 'TRADE SECRET' assault on our democracy.
The sad fact is that the nutball "crisis" of a shutdown of the federal government that we are witnessing today serves the corporate interests that our party leaders are beholden to. While THIS gets talked about by the political chattering class, single-payer health care does NOT get talked about; the dramatically widening income discrepancy in this country does NOT get talked about; the waste of lives and of billions of tax dollars on the corrupt, failed, murderous U.S. "war on drugs" does NOT get talked about; the Forever War does NOT get talked about; the multi-billion dollar maintenance of a standing army does NOT get talked about...nothing REAL gets talked about. Political discussion is so far skewed to the right that it's fallen down the "rabbit hole" into utter "Mad Tea Party" nonsense!
Easy enough for our party leaders to answer this nonsense, and huff and puff about it, and never answer to us about their corporate sponsors, or about anything else.
'TRADE SECRET' vote counting creates POLITICAL NONSENSE.
We can widen our view and consider the whole system--the filthy corporate campaign contributions and lobbying; the corporate monopoly of "the news"; the non-stop pro-Wall Street, pro-1%er propaganda; the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act, and so on. MANY things contribute to the political nonsense that our democracy has come to. But we need to understand this one thing--ES&S/Diebold's lock on the voting system--before we can understand the others. It is the LATEST and FINAL corpo-fascist method of PREVENTING REFORM. It is, literally, a coup d'etat.
It can be used any way that its controllers want to use it--subtlety in some places, blatancy in others; permitting a "liberal" president to be elected, so as to make us forget Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld, but shaving his mandate and saddling him with a "Mad Tea Party" Congress; s/electing the candidates in primaries; trending ever to the right, to fascism; empowering fascist governors and state legislatures, to pass laws to further limit voter participation and to bust unions, and so on and so forth.
ES&S, which has far rightwing connections that would make your hair stand on end, HAS THIS POWER.
It is not difficult. It is EASY. The system is wide open to insider tampering.
One hopeful thing about this LATEST and FINAL anti-reform method is that we CAN do something about this one. We can't do anything about the others until we fix this one. But fixing this one IS possible, because voting systems are still a LOCAL matter. Your local registrar of voters--who bought these horrendous, anti-democratic voting machines--may live right down the street from you. His or her office may be only a short drive away. A citizen movement to get rid of these machines IS possible! Not easy but possible.
Deconstructing the standing army is not possible in current circumstances. Impeaching the Supreme Court is not possible. Campaign finance reform is not possible. A new "Fairness Doctrine" to control the corporate media is not possible. NONE of the things that we need to do to restore our democracy are possible while we have 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting. 'TRADE SECRET' voting counting is the cap on this system--the FINAL method of fascist control.
What they are DOING with this EASY control of the vote counting will occupy us for the next several decades--undoing all the harm, digging out from under corporate/war profiteer rule. I believe that's part of "the Plan"--or rather, is a contingency plan. If we get onto them--and get rid of these machines--it could take half a century to fully restore democracy here and to start creating the decent country that we all would like to be living in. Meanwhile, the banksters, and the transglobal corporations, and the war profiteers are cleaning up. The looting and corruption are MIND-BOGGLING.
Getting rid of 'TRADE SECRET' voting systems is our ONLY chance, in my view, of starting the process of reform. It may take decades, but it's got to start with TRANSPARENT vote counting.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)i would add,it is not only es&s,any system that does not allow citizens to oversee every step in the voting process is not democratic
besides the voting machines we now have electronic registration lists which with a "glitch" can disenfranchise 1000's
and we have got to be able to supervise the accumulation of vote totals...what the machine reports does not necessarily
get reported at the county or state level
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7875
Results Drastically Changed
The election numbers have radically changed in Monroe County since the May 18th election. At least as reported on the SoS website, and as confirmed by local officials.
It's not all that unusual for the unofficial numbers to move a bit following election day, as absentee and provisional ballots are counted and added in to the totals, and as precinct numbers are double-checked for accuracy in the post-election canvass. It is, however, unusual, for vote totals to get a great deal smaller rather than larger in the days following the election. And that's what seems to have happened in Monroe County --- radically so.
Somehow, more than a thousand votes disappeared entirely, as the election results in the Dem and GOP Senate primaries have almost entirely changed.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)It's all right there and nobody can/will do anything about it. They're 'led to believe' that a change in government will solve everything. So it goes back and forth and everybody is happy and content to live in a 'democracy'.
With the long lines, the limited time and unjust screening, electronic tabulations are just another tool to maintain the status quo.
.
ancianita
(36,083 posts)The fact that gerrymandering has trumped the popular vote outcomes is also a factor of any win for Republicans. Also everything Peace Patriot wrote. I don't know how anyone could convincingly claim otherwise.
So the next important question is, how do voters and the legal system stop it from happening. It should be a federal case, not a legal wrangling across 50 different state judicial systems. I'll bet the evidence has been collected, but I hate to see any federal suit get strung out for years.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)How long before we get a simple card in the mail that says: No need to trouble yourself at the ballot box - we cast your votes for you!
Response to GoLeft TV (Original post)
mother earth This message was self-deleted by its author.