Democracy Now: Green Party Invites Bernie / He Flatly Refuses

[tomm2thumbs]

Bernie has flatly refused to even respond to their overtures, so that should put to bed any theories that Bernie has set upon a plan to sink a ship he is on. Within the interview is also a specific clip of Bernie making his pledge, so worthy clip overall for doubters to take note.

[charlyvi]

1. Good for Bernie!

Glad he is staying in the fold.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

2. I'm confident Bernie will tell them to buzz off

Fuck Jill "It would be better for the cause if Romney won" Stein.

[DemMomma4Sanders]

3. I understand her logic....Americans only do the right thing when things get really really really bad

Hell look at the Nuclear Waste that is about to burn up releasing radiation all over St. Louis?

Most don't even know about it.

[WhiteTara]

7. So even when things get really really really really bad

people still do nothing. Choosing the worst of all possibilities isn't a smart idea.

[midnight]

5. Jill is a medical doctor trying to bring health care to everyone… And not via the Romney

AHA…..

She and Bernie have more in common than Clinton as far as trying to give main street a level playing field.

Jill Stein: The Democratic Party 'fakes left,' marches right

[Geronimoe]

4. Bernie needs a reality check

The democratic elites were never going to let him win.

Yes, it has been many decades of democrats pretending they are populists while getting their orders and funding from the top 1%. Obama and Hillary are perfect examples of this.

We'll see if Bernie is the real deal, or was just a marketing tool to fool young people into the party.

[midnight]

8. Bernie intends to fight for the working people not the elites. He knew since he was a young man

that the elites didn't want him helping minorities, sick and poor, and now the middle class...


So when he says the struggle goes on…. The elites are the ones who need to check out that reality.

[passiveporcupine]

9. bernie has never been a marketng tool for anyone

IF you even think that is a possibility, then you haven't been paying attention.

[GoneFishin]

11. I love Bernie. But I realize there is still potential for him to fumble on the 10 yard line.

I hope continues to be the fighter he has been up until now.

[Gene Debs]

24. He probably didn't count on nearly as much cheating as happened.

[MADem]

6. Who wants anything to do with Jill Freakin' Stein?

She is a perennial candidate.

She is looking for Sanders to 'enhance' her brand.

He's likely not inclined to dilute his.

That's one of the smartest decisions he has ever made.

I don't recall him having much common cause with the Greens, anyway--not all left of center parties are alike.

[Geronimoe]

10. You don't agree with her policies?

They are very similar and possibly better than Bernie's.

[MADem]

14. This isn't Green Underground, and Bernie Sanders is IGNORING HER.

Pointedly.

For a reason.

He doesn't need to hitch his wagon to that perpetual loser's star.

[think]

22. What issues that Jill Stein supports are you opposed to? Or aren't you allowed to discuss issues

if someone is in another party?

[phazed0]

12. What planet..

are you on? What?!

Here, you might need this, Wikipedia - Jill Stein, Career

[MADem]

13. She is a frigging FIXTURE in MA--she runs for everything, gets elected to nothing.

Don't wave her one lousy stupid little local win at me. She's a dilettante.

She doesn't have a hope in hell of winning anything, yet she bigfoots her way onto the stage and does nothing to help clarify the issues between the two candidates who will actually win. She is irritating, noxious and tiresome. She's like Kucinich, only with less panache, fewer actual points to make, and absolutely NO amusing repartee.

I know all about Jill Stein, and would love to see her RETIRE. She doesn't do shit for her "party" -- she uses it as the Jill Stein Fan Club. She needs to go and be replaced by a fresh face who will do less "All about meeeeeeeee" -ing and do more to focus on the issues.

Green Underground is that way......

<------------

There is a REASON that Bernie Sanders is IGNORING her. You should follow his lead.

[phazed0]

15. That's like, your opinion..

If only we could get your candidate to focus on an issue. But I digress.. no use debating you, you'll just jury-abuse my posts again being so thin skinned..

Have a nice night!

[MADem]

16. That's like...fact. You don't see Sanders responding to any of her entreaties, do you?

Here is why: She's TOXIC. She's All About Jill.

He KNOWS. He's AVOIDING her, for good reason.


If she's on the stage at a debate, she sucks up the time--and she usually sucks it up from the DEMOCRATIC side, which gives OUR team (I am a Democrat, you see) less time to make their case.

Not sure what all that jury abuse babble you made is about--I rarely alert, there's no point in it. I don't know you, you don't ring a bell at all with me.

We Clinton fans are still woefully outnumbered. Can't wait for the 16th! I'm sure this place might be a lot less fun for some, but if we can get back to Old School DU, that's fine with me.

[phazed0]

19. If you want to have a reasonable debate, knowing it could get a bit heated..

I'm good with that. Opposing views make friction but it doesn't have to devolve into something uncivilized. We had a little "back and forth" 2-3 weeks ago IIRC, but no worries, it's a forum, right?

You speak more of the election impact (or lack thereof), of which I don't find nearly as important or relevant as the positions she takes and the message that she does deliver. I agree, she isn't going to win anything this go around, and likely the next go around, or ever... but neither is Sanders as it seems. None the less, Sanders has pushed the national debate and Clinton in a direction that otherwise would not have been seen. What were Sander's chances before he started his run? Next to nil, yet, look how far/close he has come.

-supports the creation of sustainable infrastructure based in clean renewable energy generation and sustainable communities
-30% reduction in the U.S. military budget
-returning US troops home
-increasing taxes on areas such as speculation in stock markets, offshore tax havens, and multimillion-dollar real estate
-Stein wants "a moratorium on GMOs and pesticides until they are proven safe
-Stein supports a national ban on fracking.
-She has spoken against nuclear energy, saying "nuclear energy is dirty, dangerous and expensive, and should be precluded on all of those counts
-Stein argues in favor of a "Medicare-for-All" healthcare system.

I would agree with mostly all of that, pending details, as I would think many Democrats do.. I just don't find her to be the witch you portray. I'm not going to denigrate her for trying to 'save the environment'.

Now when I look at Hillary's policies on those issues, it seems like a step back and a departure from what the Democratic party 'was' enthralled with just 8-10 years ago. These are shortcomings that need to be addressed, IMO, so that Hillary has a decent chance of gaining Independents and Bernie supporters to beat Trump. So far, I really feel Hillary has made some really poor political calculations in this area and I don't find her very appealing due to her issues and stance on basically keeping the course.

"We Clinton fans are still woefully outnumbered. Can't wait for the 16th!" - I find this troubling.
You may have meant it in a playful way, but if I may explain myself while taking your statement a bit more literal instead of playful/jubilant.
First, you view it as an 'us against them', which is often not very constructive nor conducive to gaining additional support by finding common grounds. I'm a Democrat too. Second, I wish the 16th would not come as it is... dissenting views and political discourse is healthy, not hurtful. By essentially 'getting rid of' non-Hillary folks, only to be left with a room full of mostly Hillary supporters... well, what does that accomplish but to have a bunch of people shout "Yay, yay hoorah!"? I find that decidedly un-Democratic in nature. I know it's DU, a private site, it tows the line... so be it. On a purely "debate" focused stance, less Democrats on the site doesn't equal better party, IMO. We can get rid of the trolls and fakers, that's fine.

I've been fairly unhappy with the Dems lately and very disillusioned with Obama, you and others likely feel differently. I accept that.

If I could, I would like to challenge you to list a few things that you like about Hillary - Not superficial things such as being a woman or a Clinton, etc... but on policy. I find it really hard to get behind a candidate that is essentially against my main concerns.

Thank you, respectfully.

[MADem]

21. I didn't call her a witch. If I were to characterize Stein at all, I'd call her an unserious,

hubris laden gadfly who is more about calling attention to HERSELF than highlighting issues and moving the ball forward. I believe she has stayed too long at the fair. I don't find her believable as a candidate. Her main focus seems to be Jill Stein.

She wants Sanders to join "her" on her ticket--like that guy would play 2nd fiddle to her? I mean, come on. All about HER. Typical gambit.

I like pretty much everything about Hillary. I especially like that she works twice as hard to get half the credit -- and I (and many others, too) notice. It's not accidental that Warren endorsed her so forcefully--Warren is another smart pragmatist who realizes that the goal is to get the ball down the field, not stand on the sidelines, behind the cheerleaders, whining that the weather is too cold, the field is too rocky and the ball is under-inflated. Get going. Get living or die trying. Enough carping and whining and talk--we need action. And if it takes compromise, well, LIVE with it. It's better than dying with shit in one hand and more shit in the other.

Hillary Clinton is going to be the best POTUS this nation has seen in a a half century or more. I have great hopes for her, and I'm sure she will deliver. She learned at the feet of the master--that old wily Robert Byrd taught her everything he knows about pulling a legislature around to his way of thinking--and she did the shit work of acting as his emissary to her fellow Senators in her early Senate years--it's why they all know her and they love her. They know she's not afraid to Do The Work.

It's a great day in America. That glass ceiling is finally coming down. HALF OF OUR POPULATION now, finally, at long last, "counts." And they are not turning back, either. This election IS important. It's symbolic--but it's more than that. It is the representation of a sea change in the way that America is represented in the halls of power. And it's about goddamned time.

Anyone who refuses to acknowledge what a Big Effing Deal this is just doesn't understand what it is like to be marginalized, to never fit into the "default" (white/male/Euro) category. Those of us who have been marginalized, owing to race, creed, color, gender, orientation--you pick the thing that those wingnuts and obtuse assholes hate--KNOW what a big deal this is. It does not have to be explained.

This is about the population of half our country, and also those who understand what half our country has had to deal with because it's a shared experience in many regards ... AND it is also about the most qualified candidate in the race.

Perfect storm. Let's go. Let's win.

[glowing]

30. I don't see your reason for voting for her other than she's a woman..

And that you think she works twice as hard as anyone else, without getting the credit. I don't actually see that at all, but that's my opinion and it varies from yours.. We are all allowed to have a difference.

I guess because there was the women's movement and a push back against sexual harassment regarding the whole Clarence Thomas Supreme Court hearings that did help to change the conversation regarding the work place and appropriate behavior. And I've been absolutely dismayed by the assertion that Bernie is a sexist this entire campaign. He forcefully calls himself a Feminist. How many men proudly stand in front of thousands of supporters, claim to be a proud Feminist, and in return receive overwhelming cheering/ clapping for that statement? Now, Donald Trump, absolutely is a PoS, misogynistic asshat.

Anyway, because of the work of our "fore-sisters", the next generations (Gen-X and Millenials) are treated in much the same manner in the work place... Essentially, all of our jobs are shitty and pay crappy wages. It's usually only the 50+ crowd that is still experiencing that pay difference between male and female and it's typically in jobs of seniority that the younger generations have yet to gain access to. And I really think there is a disconnect between older generations (Baby Boom) and the younger generations of kids trying to survive in this country. Many younger people are called selfish for wanting "free college" or Medicare for All or better paying jobs because they are seen as wanting too much, too fast without "putting in the work"... But the reality is, most jobs today are becoming temp type positions or contracted positions with NO benefits. So, having to skip around the job market to find paying jobs and still worry about health insurance and paying of massive amounts of student debts, is extremely hard. Student debt is absolutely keeping the economy from being stimulated. Or allowing these "kids" or "younger generations" from taking risks and creating new businesses. Add to that their economic decline on take home pay, they aren't providing as much tax revenue that will be needed to take care of the Baby Boomers as they begin to retire. (I know we could always reduce military spending to help out, but that is another issue that seems all but impossible in the American political landscape).

Also, take into account that people under the age of 45 have pretty much had amazing access to newer technologies. And the under 30 crowd has been even more fortunate with technology development. In about 5 seconds flat, one can take out their phone and verify or look up just about anything.... From places to eat that are good, to driving directions, to verifying the truth on someone's statements, or to connect with people from around the planet. The Internet access that we have today has made globalization of people and ideas very easy to access. So when a 20 something college student is talking to say a student in Germany, they realize that their ability to compete against that German student in the global market place is already at a disadvantage because they will be leaving college with debts that are at times equivalent to a mortgage (and there is no way to get rid of that debt via bankruptcy or anything-- if you lose your job and literally have no funds to pay the $400 to $600 payment to the creditor, they will come after you to garnish your wages once you actually do find a job. It's nearly impossible to pay those types of loans back when most people don't want to pay a new college graduate more than $25,000/ yr. And the country is losing out on having a highly educated populace that can compete with China and European Union because so many, more than qualified young people, are just unable to afford to go to college at all. And with the pay scale being so lopsided, it might not really pay off to go to college... It certainly hasn't helped me any.

Plus, with the women's movement, they asked to be a part of the "man's world", instead of creating a new model that works for women entering the job market. For young women today, we are forced to have to work because one pay check doesn't really pay to take care of a family household (unless you are already born into the top 10%). Many jobs that women traditionally do are skewed to pay less. Do you think for one second that if teaching was male dominated, that the country could even think about getting away with paying so little and then turning around and blaming them for kids losing their competitive edge with the world? No, the real issues would be brought up, poverty, family instability because of being poor, living in dangerous neighborhoods, and lacking in nutritional foods is what actually attributes to "kids falling behind"... And if we actually take out testing scores of kids living in poverty and look at middle class and above, the test scores are competitive... However today, 1 out of every 5 kids is living in poverty. So, why aren't we pushing for changes in our work life, work time paid for, and a guarantee that a certain level of "life standards" is what is more important than Wall St.

Lastly, on the "woman thing", I think it's extremely important that we have the right woman. If Sarah Palin, for example, was the Republican presumptive candidate on the Republican ticket, would you feel the same sense of pride? Would you feel that you should support that woman because she's a woman? Or would you think policy and ideas were more important at that point? There is a real reason that 45 and younger, regardless of sex, really supported Bernie. It was the ideas. It was embracing a more egalitarian society. Plus her stances on war and regime change do actually make a difference for the youth who often join the military for a job and for access to college. It is relevant for those who will actually be the boots on the ground regarding military... And I know, Trump isn't the answer! I'm just a saying that was a reason for supporting his stance on military intervention being the LAST thing we do.

So, speak to policy positions that will allow people on Main St who are essentially living in a recession for many years now... How is the establishment and corporations looking to help the citizens of the country out? They really don't. It's not their job! They make money and try to rig the rules in favor of them. And politicians taking their money are going to help them. The studies say we live in an oligarchy at this moment in time. Democracy in this country is NOT real.

[MADem]

33. I said I like everything about her.

The fact that she is female is simply value added.

[realmirage]

23. So what exactlly is your goal?

Even if it were only Jill vs Hillary in a general, how would she win when Sanders himself couldn't beat her? The reality, though, is there is still a Republican Party candidate. If you are talking Green Party dream scenario, it's Bernie and Jill running together vs Hillary vs Trump. Hillary and Sanders split the leftist vote, and Trump wins.

All of these principles you have, you should be trying to mold the Democratic Party to be what you think it should be. You don't like something? Fight to keep pulling the party left. Get rid of things you don't like. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR CANDIDATE BERNIE SANDERS JUST DID. He probably succeeded in getting rid of the super delegate system, and I'm sure the DNC has given Sanders major say in the Democratic platform going forward. Sanders joined the Democratic Party because he knew that was the only way to actually make change in any realistic way. And he has. That's the only path for liberals. We work together or there is no leftist party, there is only a united Republican Party winning every election.

Your principles are good, but unless they are attached to a viable plan, they have no power.

[dreamnightwind]

17. That's not how I saw it

I watched the vid. The clip they played of him saying he wouldn't do it was from last July.

Jill said the Green Party has reached out to him, and she made an eloquent case for why he should join them and how he could square it with his earlier statement.

As far as I could tell, the Green Party has not heard back from Bernie re this offer, which is a lot different from a flat refusal. Last July is a lifetime ago, before all the party shenanigans to select Hillary.

I honestly don't know what should become of his campaign and movement, I'm not advocating any particular path, but am interested to see what Bernie's intentions are.

My guess is he will try for platform planks and for more power in the Senate, and campaign some against Trump. That won't satisfy me, but his choice is his, he's given everything to this campaign. Hopefully we'll find a way to continue this no matter what Bernie does.

[L. Coyote]

18. A ploy for votes, trying to wrest away the Dems who support Bernie. Epitomizing pathetic.

And a YUUUGE clue as to how clueless she is.

[Geronimoe]

20. 30% of the members of the Green Party

changed their registration to be able to vote for Bernie. No reason Jill should not try to convince those people to return, now that Bernie has no chance to succeed in the Democratic Party.

[George Eliot]

26. Franken tonight was very general in his statements re Bernie's return to Senate.

Was it Matthews or O'Donnell? Anyway, I found Franken sort of disingenuous. I was a fan of his but now...I don't know. What happens to good people when they go to DC?

[George Eliot]

25. I have voted occasionally Green in my day but Bernie should not change parties.

It would trivialize him, I believe. The Green Party has to find ways to become more successful locally first. I hve the utmost respect for Jill Stein.

I've been trying to find the text or video of his speech in DC but cannot locate one. I'd like to have heard his first speech following the AP anointment of Hillary. I'm not being rude but I don't know what else to call it. I saw a segment where he emphasized four ideas of justice: racial, economic, social and one more. It could have been gender but I don't think it was. I wish he'd encapsulated it that way much earlier. It's effective. The segment I was showed Ben Jealous and Cornell West with him on the podium. He was subdued a little but very happy with the presentation and the crowd's response. It was a lovefest from what I could tell.

[SmittynMo]

27. To all the

HRC fans that thought he was NOT a democrat. &^*&^% *(*&&^%!!!! Satisfied now?

[Nitram]

28. Bernie is a real mensch!

[GoneFishin]

29. As I suspected that Bernie quote was from before all of the cheating and lying about him. July 2015.

He owes them nothing after they repeatedly kicked him in the teeth, lied about him, and cheated their asses off in almost every state.

[SmittynMo]

31. Amen

And still, no one sees the favoritism, corruption, and cheating.

It's quite sad what the establishment will do to win. Where in the hell is the democracy?

[yuiyoshida]

32. good video tomm2thumbs

Thanks!