Thousands brave cold for Sanders Rally in Michigan today to save Obamacare

[uhnope]

[WhiteTara]

1. Is Michigan the state that left 80,000

presidential ballots blank?

[demmiblue]

3. This is a state that went to Obama in 2008 by a landslide (by @ 16.5%)...

and in 2012 by @ 9.5% (defeating a Michigan native son).

If you think that 80,000 votes left blank is the issue, then I don't know what to tell you.

[WhiteTara]

6. Well, yes, I do think it is an issue

Rigged election: 87,000 people in Michigan supposedly voted, but not for President
http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/rigged-election-87000-voters-in-michigan-supposedly-failed-to-vote-for-president/262/

Those 87,000 votes would have overcome the Trump lead...unless of course they were all for him.

edited to add:
Michigan's 2016 presidential election by the numbers
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/michigans_presidential_electio.html

[Plucketeer]

4. Michigan's the state

where folks craving a populist agenda were denied voting for the one person of integrity who would've delivered on his promises. So they voted for the phony populist instead. This while the DNC tried to convince them the Establishment purveyor was what they really wanted.

[WhiteTara]

7. And once again, perfect is the enemy of the good.

Now we have the worst. Of course the DNC was bolstered by the many million votes more that were cast for Clinton in the primaries.

[Plucketeer]

11. Most professional racers agree

"Winning? Overrated. If I just make it across the finish line at some point, that's a "win" in my book!

[WhiteTara]

23. Well, we all die.

That's the ultimate finish line. So there's that win. Without health insurance, you might get that win, sooner rather than later. Had we elected Hillary, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Plucketeer]

24. I had to vote,

so I voted against Trump. And yes, we are BORN to die. Seems like futility, but at 72, I appreciate the decades I got to enjoy.

[R B Garr]

8. "delivered on his promises". Vermont does not have single payer. Vermont does not have

free tuition. Vermont's minimum wage is $10/hr, 1/3 the rate of what he ran on nationally and less than what the Democratic nominee was running on, although he had no problems smearing her plan. That shows just who the "purveyor" is.

[Plucketeer]

10. Hmmmm...

Ten dollars is 1/3rd of fifteen? And furthermore, I recall $10.10 (WOW! A whole 10cents more - at the end of an 8-hour day, you could buy a candy bar with that if you shopped at one of those discount grocery stores!) being the big push until the senator from Vermont applied pressure. Which again - proves the populist message was (and still IS) superior to "status quo with tweaks". See, Bernie was campaigning for the whole country's needs - not just Vermont.

[R B Garr]

12. He couldn't even deliver in Vermont. Hmmmmmm, indeed.

Ten dollars an hour is $5/hr less than he was campaigning on nationally. 5 into 15. $5/hr. $10/hr. $15/hr.

He could not even deliver on his "promises" in Vermont. He harangued Clinton about $12/hr, yet is willing to work with Trump on far less. His main concerns seem to be what keeps his name in the spotlight regardless, and why not, since he is not held accountable for anything he promises, which makes him the actual purveyor.

[Plucketeer]

13. LOL. Must be that "new math", eh

Read this quote: " Vermont's minimum wage is $10/hr, 1/3 the rate of what he ran on nationally." I don't recall Bernie calling for $30 bucks an hour. T'would be nice tho!

[R B Garr]

14. lol, it makes sense that you would quibble over the reality that

Vermont's minimum wage is $10/hr, while he campaigned on $15/hr. It said it right there in the first post. That's $5/hr more than $10/hr. Just a quick visual shows that 5 difference into 15 is .33333333. $10/hr. is about 1/3 less than $15/hr. But this is the kind of nonsense to which Bernie was never held accountable.

[Plucketeer]

16. You win!

Say - when IS HRC going to attend a rally to save the ACA???

[R B Garr]

17. She rallied for the ACA all during the campaign, but Sanders smeared her

about that in favor of single payer, although he couldn't get that passed in Vermont.

When is Bernie going to get single payer passed?? He smeared good Democrats, including Obama, over the political realities of getting such financially burdensome policy passed. I guess he's into compromising now, as long as it keeps him in the spotlight. That's apparently the yuuuge priority.

[Plucketeer]

18. Bye bye

[Cha]

21. Mahalo, RB, for bringing some reality to the discussion.

[R B Garr]

25. Mahalo to you, too, Cha. Thanks.

It's a shame that this subversion of reality has been allowed to fester in our party. Nothing good has come of attacking our nominee and our party like this.

[Cha]

27. Just some agenda that has nothing to do with building

up a solid infrastructure of the Democratic Party

[uhnope]

41. smear...

[R B Garr]

43. Lame. His entire campaign was based on impugning her character.

He was asked to provide a single example of a policy she enacted to favor Wall Street, and he completely choked and was unable to provide a single example. That was a debate question, and after those kind of blank answers, he started losing traction in the primary. When your whole campaign is based on impugning someone's character, but you can't provide a shred of proof, then you look like a phony.

[uhnope]

30. hesitant to show her face these days apparently nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. Can you show me where Senator Sanders ran on a minimum wage or state single payer in Vermont?

I'm sure he supported it but I'm curious how he could run on it? Does the Vermont Senator get a vote in the state legislature?

I think it's pretty shitty for supposed liberals to hold up one of the smallest states in the Union swinging for the fences and failing as an "in your face suck it liberals!" - I can listen to Rush Limbaugh for that canard.

I don't know whose idea the Vermont single payer idea was, but I know Sanders has been consistent in his desire to nationalize things like minimum wage and minimum income taxes and health care - So regressive states couldn't capitalize on wage and tax differentials while sucking up federal benefits to provide for their residents.

I think one of the best ideas I've heard from a national politician is his idea of penalizing grifter states' highway funds that refuse to tax their own residents while stealing business from more responsible states - all while sucking up federal aid.

[R B Garr]

20. He smeared Hillary by saying she was against single payer, when the reality

is that she discovered long ago that it is financially burdensome and it was better to focus on more realistic policies. Vermont didn't get single payer because it was financially burdensome.

By his own standards for her, he was not able to get single payer through Vermont. His "movement" and "revolution" is based on calling representatives and pushing through policies based on the big show of support by The People. But his teeny tiny state of Vermont didn't get it done for single payer, and by his own standards, he was unable to push it through himself.

And speaking of Rush Limbaugh, they all love Sanders' because he divides Democrats with his pie-in-the-sky propaganda.

[uhnope]

29. How dare anyone else run for prez on the Democratic ticket anyway, right?

And how dare that person point out differences between his agenda and the favored candidate--because that's a smear.
Hopefully we'll get to the point where only one chosen person runs for each of the two chosen parties.
Then hopefully we'll get to the point where even running at all in one party will be treachery and smearing because it jeopardizes the most favored candidate of the other party. So then we'll progress to having just one party with one candidate to vote for, the most perfect solution.

[R B Garr]

37. If smearing Democrats is the only way you can advance, even after you have been

mathematically eliminated, then you obviously don't care if the party wins or loses, so it's obvious you have another agenda.

At some point, winning elections becomes important. Maybe not for independents in small, safe states, who are not truly affected by policy, but for the rest of the nation who doesn't want to live with the stupidity and backwardness of the GOP. If you are truly a progressive, you would want to see your policies enacted, not just sit on the sidelines smearing people for applause.

[uhnope]

38. so you actually do think that just running against the favored candidate is a drag on the process

amazing

[R B Garr]

39. Sanders' became a Democrat for the media he could generate that he couldn't

on his own. Then he proceeded to badmouth Democrats. As it turns out, smearing Democrats helps the opposition party win.

Badmouthing and smearing people with attacks he could not prove turned out to the be drag on the process. At some point, winning elections is important, and having an adversary against Democrats is not part of the "process". It was just a vehicle for Sanders to promote himself. Amazing he was allowed to malign Democrats like he did. Enough is enough.

[uhnope]

40. again, amazing. Most people would say having an adversary IS the process of choosing candidates

but there's apparently some people who just don't want adversaries at all in the process, that the process should be just one candidate. You've proved my point well.

There was just one candidate on the ballots in the former USSR btw, and it's still that way in certain countries. Not democracies, of course

[R B Garr]

42. Again, what is amazing is saying that badmouthing Democrats is a way to win elections.

That's what is amazing. Now look what we have. At some point, a politicians ego is nothing more than that, and Bernie's whole campaign was more about self-promotion than in helping Democrats. Now he's into promoting his book. Amazing.

[uhnope]

44. my god, all the factors that led to the Trump presidency--Russia, Comey, voter suppression, basic di

my god, all the factors that led to the Trump presidency--Russia, Comey, voter suppression, basic disgust with income inequality, fake news, hate talk radio, racism, sexism, not to mention Clinton's own weaknesses and negatives...and some people blame Sanders. Again, ridiculously amazing.

It might be time to reflect on getting over personal animosity towards Sanders and start addressing what's really going on in America, don't you think?

[R B Garr]

45. It might be time for you to reflect, as well. Trump stole Bernie's attacks on Democrats

and played his supporters for absolute fools. Look who he is appointing now -- mega billionaires. He even thanked Bernie for providing him attacks on her which he used to divide Democrats, and he got that from Bernie. I have to laugh at those who can't get over Bernie's loss from half a year ago trying to browbeat Clinton supporters into what they should get over. LOL.

You should take a look at your own "personal animosity". What's really going on in America is that a con man stole divisive rhetoric to con people, so he obviously knew manipulation when he heard it. Obviously "America" didn't mind a Wall Street billionaire since they elected one. So that makes Bernie's rhetoric even more insignificant.

And of course Russia/Comey/voter suppression, but maybe you didn't see the Russian propaganda that they were purposefully trying to split Democrats??? C'mon now, you need to take care of your own business first.

[uhnope]

46. wow. Now Sanders is responsible for Trump's modus operandi too

It's Sanders' fault that Trump manipulates people and plays his foolish voters like a fiddle. It's Sanders' fault that Trump is appointing billionaires. Sanders is even somehow culpable in the Russian interference, hmm.

And you really think it's other people who can't get over Sanders... Honestly, your preoccupation is over the top. But okay good luck with that

[R B Garr]

47. Trump thanked Bernie for the attacks he used, so no need to deny that when

it is what happened. Common sense and common wisdom is that prolonged nasty primaries do nothing but provide the opposition party ammunition to use against an opponent in the general. Surely you've heard that before. It's cute what you are doing, but it doesn't fit with plain common sense.

What's over the top is insisting that attacking Democrats will help win elections. That's just plain political suicide, and you can see that nothing good came from Sanders' divisive rhetoric except for his personal gain. Attacking Democrats nonstop is what is over the top. Bernie lost by millions of votes, so obviously people saw through him.

[synergie]

26. Michiganders were allowed to vote for the one person of integrity who had the

skills to deliver on promises, and whose had actual workable plans to do so, they voted for her. Sadly, their votes were not counted, because the people falsely whining about rigging didn't give a damn about the ACTUAL voter suppression going on. They CHOSE to throw away their votes by staying home, writing in invalid candidates or for a party they literally knew nothing about and don't bother supporting when it matters.

So Michigan's the state that didn't have its votes counted, because certain folks didn't care that votes were not counted in areas like Detroit. People with integrity would stop lying about the candidate who DID NOT have the integrity to keep his word be it with disclosing of finances, staying in the party he claimed to have joined, or to accept responsibility for hacking into his opponent's VAN, rather than suing when properly disciplined.

Instead, MI got to deal with the consequences of purity voters who couldn't get their act together despite the obvious threats to Michiganders. No one was denied voting for a person of integrity, but those cast votes were not counted, and those who CHOSE not to vote proved they don't have much integrity at all.

All the while these purists try to convince themselves that using RW attacks on a person of integrity somehow makes their actions more pure and somehow didn't hand the state to Orange Hitler, who shares their views that POC and women don't matter, only white men.

[still_one]

28. Hillary lost by .3% in Michigan. Jill Stein received 1.1% of the vote. Similar numbers in

Wisconsin and other swing states.

Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the ESTABLISHMENT, incumbent, republican.

I wonder how many of those who identified themselves as progressives either didn't vote, voted third party, or did a write in?

[George II]

31. Who was denied voting for anyone at any time in Michigan? I'm confused.

[Plucketeer]

33. Spelling it out

My inference was that voters were denied the chance to vote for Bernie - who, not saddled with more baggage than a 747 - would've whalloped Trump and provided accommodating coat tails for many lower stations.

[synergie]

34. And your "inference" was incorrect. They had the chance to vote for Bernie,

mostly because people did not know what his baggage was, which is why he couldn't "whallop" anyone, and his failure to reach his supporters and educate, and teach them the utter stupidity of NOT BOTHERING TO VOTE beyond writing in his name proved he had no coat tails, and his poisoning of the voters pretty much proved to be a gift for Trump.

Spelling it out just made it more clear that you don't seem to be working with facts, but a great deal of fantasy that is not very well written.

[Plucketeer]

36. Was it Bernie

leading the show in Warren Michigan yesterday? BTW, thanks for your assessment of my writing abilities. I've been published nationally - you?

[George II]

35. That's preposterous, they weren't "denied the chance", the Democratic voters chose someone else.....

....as their nominee, and there is no evidence whatsoever that he would have defeated Trump. None.

[Hoyt]

2. Too bad we didn't stand up for the ACA before the election when it really mattered.

Instead folks criticized it, even saying we'd be better off if it didn't pass and Obama and the ACA are a POS. Now we are fighting to keep it. I guess that is all we can do now, but too bad we didn't recognize its importance before the election.

[Plucketeer]

5. NOW is the time to lay the groundwork

for SINGLE PAYER. If the citizens of this country will focus for more than two minutes and PRESSURE their Reps: "Yeah - we want change, and THIS is what we want instead. Screw the money-grubbing death panels of the health insurance scammers!

[R B Garr]

9. Exactly. And the Sanders' folks believed his song and dance about repealing the ACA.

Now they want to fight for it if it's a way to attach his name to something, even though they badmouthed it before because it was something Hillary was fighting for.

Plus, this was not a "Sanders" fight or demonstration to begin with. I guess they think we don't remember their divisiveness.

[George II]

32. For some it's all or nothing. So they're going to get their wish - nothing.

[mtngirl47]

15. My local rally today

I took this picture right at the start and we ended up with about 200 people. The local Democrats teamed up with Progressive Nation, the local college progressive group and the NAACP. We rallied, listened to speeches and then walked about 10 blocks waving our signs and chanting. It was fun to be with other progressives and it felt productive.

[MsLeopard]

22. Way to go!!

Great picture, thank you for posting it. And thanks for getting out there, it's haynit takes.