Landlord experts?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

My husband bought a modest lower end of middle class house in a lower-end middle class neighborhood.

He spent money to paint it, put new carpet in, new lower end appliances, etc. etc.

He rented it to three students about 8 months ago.

They didn't pay their rent, and wouldn't answer texts about it

He went over there and it was trashed. Filth everywhere. Empty liquor bottles, trash piled to the ceiling. Rat droppings in the kitchen

Burns in the new carpets.

Broken doors.

Dog abandoned in the back yard.

Everything moved out except the garbage and some worthless junk. the only thing out of all of it might have been a beat up old dresser.

My husband cleaned everything out, put it on the street.

Now, these kids are getting a lawyer and threatening to call the police and have my husband arrested for theft.

He is so upset. I think he shouldn't have put the dresser on the street...but I won't say anything.

Was he wrong?

[Chan790]

1. Probably not, but get a lawyer.

They're going to know the laws of your jurisdiction.

[SOteric]

2. The exact answers will depend on the state in which you reside,

but in all likelihood, he was incorrect to put the dresser on the street. Even in the case of abandoned property, foreclosures and evictions, there is a requirement for written notice to be delivered to the occupants by certified mail and in most cases there is a 20 day right of possession and 45 - 90 day personal property statute. Most states would allow the property owner to put the items in storage and if properly notified, make the delinquent tenants responsible for the charges in order to retrieve their property.

Regardless, if they destroyed to property and failed to pay rent, a counter-suit will make the issue of any damages to your husband moot. Hopefully you had good photos of the property before and after the tenants moved in/out, and before any of the items were removed.

Best of luck, and for gosh sake, see an attorney or your local landlord/tenant union.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. thanks so much ! Yes, the rules. He was just so furious to see

all the fruits of his labor ruined. He acted unwisely, for sure. No pics. that would be too
much like right.:&gt Wish I had gone with him

[YellowRubberDuckie]

18. Most states have a $ amount requirement.

Obviously this was junk. Photograph EVERYTHING, documentation, etc, and your ass should be covered.

[mrmpa]

3. Take lots of pictures of the destruction done...eom

[Baitball Blogger]

4. Not sure what state you're in.

In Florida there's a process for evictions. I think it involves getting the sheriff involved.

On the other hand, your husband has a tenant contract. That will be his strongest piece of evidence, especially if it outlines that he has the right to evict them if they don't pay the rent.

Hopefully he took pictures.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

11. Do you have to formally "evict" even if they had already moved out? nt

[Baitball Blogger]

14. Okay. First, I am not a lawyer.

I just happen to know someone who has been doing this for a while.

This is the procedure we follow in Florida: You must go through the County eviction process and post notice. Some kind of notice needed to be posted. He said, whether you like it or not, renters have more rights than the owner once they sign the contract. He suspected what happened was that school was over and they went home for a while.

Where he thinks your husband might have the best leverage is in the abandonment of the animal. Turning them into the ASPCA may offer you something to bargain with because they can get in big itrouble for cruelty to an animal.

I'm sorry about this. He's been very lucky with tenants in one location, including students. But he had another location which was not so great.

[grasswire]

5. did he enter the property without notice to them?

That could be another problem, unless he had already notified them they were evicted for non-payment, using the proper forms and amount of time.

Sounds like it would be a good idea to attend a landlord education class, if there is one locally. At least get a copy of the local laws and study them.

[elleng]

6. Yes and no.

THEY were wrong, subject to actions for rent AND damage to your property, which can surely be offset by 'value' of dresser.

SUE them for rent etc.

Very sorry for the aggravation.

[vanlassie]

7. Buy a cheap ass dresser

And tell them to come get it. If they can't prove it's the same one.....

[Laura PourMeADrink]

12. lol

[Kaleva]

8. Get a lawyer. If they can't produce receipts proving they paid rent, that'd be a plus.

Hopefully your husband has pics showing the damage and condition of the place before he cleaned it up.

In Michigan, there are certain procedures that one must follow in order to evict. However, if the students cannot prove they ever paid rent, then I wouldn't worry too much. Especially if they haven't paid for 8 months. I forget but after a certain period of time, property in Michigan is considered to be abandoned. But I'd still get a lawyer because there may be some legal problems to deal with.

Before your husband rents again, do research and become quite familiar with the laws in your state regarding renters and landlords rights and responsibilities. Talk with others who have been in the rental business for a long time and see how their rental agreements are drawn up.

Chalk this one up as an expensive learning experience. Still get a lawyer but again, I wouldn't worry too much about this as they have to provide proof of paying rent and of efforts, such as phone records and/or certified mail reciepts, of attempting to contact your husband in order to make their case that the property was not abandoned.

[A Simple Game]

9. Maybe it's because I feel a little spiteful this morning, but

the first thing I would do is get charges filed against them for abandoning the dog.

I wouldn't feel bad about this because they started the game. Show them no mercy, I doubt they have much of a leg to stand on.

[riderinthestorm]

13. Gawd, I do NOT miss the days of being a landlord. Nope, don't miss them at all

A lot depends on the state you live in as to what you can do. You and your husband need to become experts now! Take some classes or get some books and bone up. You can try to handle rental issues without an attorney but honestly, its probably wise to have one on hand. You've just been handed some very, very expensive lessons on being a landlord. Try not to grieve too much over it and move on. You won't get your money from these guys unless you want to spend a ton MORE money just to prove a point.

Anyway, as for the present situation, buy a cheap ass dresser from craigslist and put it in the house. Tell them to come get it. Document that you have told them to come get their dresser in writing. They don't have a leg to stand on when/if they dispute the dresser but be prepared, I'm sure they will - I've had waayyyyy too many asshole renters. If your husband didn't take pics of the damage in its initial state, he should take photos of whatever damage still remains. If they dispute the dresser, point to the damage and tell them he will counter sue for the thousands of dollars it will take to make the place habitable.

If they still get sticky about the dresser, tell them they can produce the receipts for 8 months of paid rent. If they cannot (which you already know they cannot), tell them they are in breach of their contract with you and they will be sued for the entire amount plus the damages.

If they still won't take the dresser your husband offers, walk away and contact your attorney. It will be a messy, ugly fight. Welcome to being a landlord. I hated every minute of it. We never made money on it because of the damage the renters did, even when we hired rental managers to do background checks.

Oh and lastly, make sure you tell them you've contacted animal control about their animal abuse. Having a record on them will come in handy when they do it again (and animal abusers typically are repeat offenders).

[Laura PourMeADrink]

19. Update: Here's a pic of damage, now I am scared

Neighbors said the guy was talking to all the neighbors - trying to get witnesses to my husband throwing stuff out. Now I am scared since I saw the damage and this guy must have a super bad temper and rage disorder. The neighbors said there were violent fights with him and his girlfriend and they were sure they were selling drugs because there were a constant stream of visitors who only stayed 10 minutes each.

What's left of the bathroom door:


Punch holes in the bedroom, cracked door, door molding completely missing:

[riderinthestorm]

21. Oh man, that totally sucks. FWIW, I had a family do that much destruction

but it was their son who had the rage disorder. Even the stove top was smashed - it looked like the kid took a baseball bat to it with extreme violence. 12 years old but fairly large and just radiated seething rage....

Honestly, getting an attorney is probably the best recourse. You can try to file a police report on the damage so you have pre-empted this guy. Did he call the ASPCA about the abandoned dog? I really hope so.

Sooner or later though, your husband is going to probably have a confrontation with the guy. Make sure he has a strong friend with him because you may end up calling the police if the guy gets physical and it will help having someone else there.

I wouldn't worry one minute about the neighbors reporting that your husband threw stuff out. From the damage, its obvious that there would be broken stuff getting thrown out at the minimum - that would be normal and obvious to anyone. But in my experience, there's virtually always a ton of garbage that needs to be thrown out when a renter leaves - that's also normal. I've had them leave entertainment units, beds, sofas - amazing stuff that I've put out on a curb with a free sign. These guys obviously never paid the rent and they abandoned the place and the dresser. You need to look into the landlord laws for your state immediately about how those issues are handled.

Again though, as for the dresser, still the main object of concern I presume, I would get a cheap replacement - $10 off craigslist. Make sure he knows to come pick up HIS dresser by a certain date and do all this in writing, registered mail.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. wow. guess we got away easy

compared to you.

They did come get the dog after a couple days.

Oddly enough, compared to what everyone is saying here - Texas laws must be totally
landlord friendly...go figure...thanks Bush !

We talked to an attorney this morning. The people had left a washer and dryer and we were going
to text him to pick it up yesterday and decided to wait. The attorney said not to worry a bit.
Per the attorney, they broke the lease by abandoning the property and destroying it. At that point
the landlord lien rules kicked in. He said we in essence owned that property somehow. He
said not to offer the washer and dryer back since it would waive the landlord lien rights.

He also said that if he sues us, we counter-sue for all back rent and damages.

Got a contractor in who initially said there was probably $5-10 thousand in damages. Like
all new carpet to replace 8 month old carpet.

[Amaril]

23. Holy shit!

'scuse my french, but damn! You're right -- the guy obviously has "issues". Sorry you're having to deal with this. It's like a friend of mine always says.........."Why can't people just act right?"

[Yavin4]

15. As A General Rule, You Need To Know Your Rights and Responsibilities As A Landlord Before You Rent

And, you have to really screen applicants. Demand references and income verification.

[Chan790]

16. Something to add to that because he's renting to students...

for students, make them get a co-signer on the lease if they don't have a credit history, one that you can run credit-check on to make sure they're responsible.

You get an adult to deal with, less likelihood of them bailing on a trashed unit and they'll take better care of the place because they're mortally-afraid of what happens if you have to call their parents...parents in-turn will keep on them because they have more to lose if you sue them.

[Yavin4]

17. When Renting to Students, You Should Ask for a Huge Security Deposit

And two months rent in advance.

[LynneSin]

20. Did he take photographs?

I don't think he did anything wrong especially if they were non-payment in rent.

But if he took photos of the damage he should be fine.

Also, if he does clean this up and rents it again - best to go thru a rental agency. For the percentage you pay to the agency they will be much better at dealing with crap like this and protecting your interest should it get out of control.

If he doesn't do the agency, my suggestion is that next rental agreement include regular roach treatments. It's a reasonable request since rentals tend to attract bugs and it's the opportunity to check out the apartment and assure these people aren't going crazy with their treatment of your place.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

22. thanks Lynn Sin...good advice - posted a couple pics above.

[HappyMe]

26. Holy crap!

Definitely get a lawyer on board.

I'm also wondering that along with the photos, and what the neighbors said to your husband, it may not be a bad idea to just let the local police dept know. They may be able to cruise past late evening & at night. Just to show a presence.

Maybe change the locks, too.

[hamsterjill]

25. What happened to the dog?

Can't you get them somehow on abandonment of a living creature? Who was feeding and watering it after they left?

I realize that's a long shot, but sometimes when one side "lawyers up", the other has to figure out creative (yet still legal) ways to respond to get their point across.

[NCTraveler]

27. What state?

What type of notices did you post on their door?