Anyone watched the Showtime TV series "The Borgias" with Jeremy Irons?

[TorchTheWitch]

He plays Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia). The Borgia family was apparently the "original" crime family that author Mario Puzo envisioned for the Godfather series.

They've done three seasons, but apparently the fourth and final one will not be a 10 episode season but a two hour movie to wrap it up. I loved it, but never heard of it until I stumbled across a few trailers on YouTube...

Season 3 trailer...

[sarge43]

1. Watched it and enjoyed it.

It's have been like that since the Roman Republic. Familia is everything.

[TorchTheWitch]

2. Not so different anywhere else

Dynastic politics was the order of the times... recall England's War of the Roses, for example.

I've been watching The White Queen (a 10 episode miniseries) lately and documentaries of the three women who had everything to do with how that all went on since tv and movies like to play fast and loose with historical facts... Elizabeth Woodville - wife of King Edward and for a time queen, Anne Nevil - wife of Richard III and for a time queen, and Margaret Beaufort - mother of Henry Tudor who became Henry VII and changed the course of England's monarchy forever). I just finished watching the 4th episode, and I really like this one as well.

[sarge43]

3. Haven't seen The White Queen yet.

It's on my ever expanding, never ending to-do list.

Martin boosted the basic narrative line of A Song of Ice and Fire from the WotR. A story that's been told in many places and in many times - win or die.

If you're interested in more detail about the Ladies of the Roses, recommend Sarah Gristwood's Blood Sisters: The Women Behind the War of the Roses.

[TorchTheWitch]

10. I kind of ruined it for myself by watching the documentaries first

Still, I like it a lot. Just finished watching Episode 8 and have two more to go.

Now I'm even more curious about what actually happened to Elizabeth Woodville's boys known as the Princes in the Tower that Richard III murdered or had disappeared or something so he could have himself crowned. Weren't two small boy-sized skeletons found buried under a stair in the tower that are believed to be them?

I've heard of that book you mentioned... I'll have to look in the library for it again.

[sarge43]

12. No one is sure what happened to them.

A semi load of theories, but not certain. All we're sure of is Richard had them declared illegitimate (Supposedly Edward IV had pre-contracted marriage with a woman before he married La Woodville which made all their children ineligible to rule) and had them put in protective custody in the Tower. For a few months afterward, they were seen, then nothing.

After that, everything we know is agenda and conjecture.

The four possibilities

1. Richard, excess princes can and do make trouble

2. Agents of either Richard or Henry, sucking up and clean up crew. Margaret Beauford and husband Lord Stanley often get the nod.

3. Henry, within 24 hours after Bosworth, see #1. Plus his bride to be, Elizabeth of York, had to be re-legitimatized and moved to the head of the succession line

4. Richard sent them out of England for safe keeping and their protection, possibly to his sister, Margaret, duchess of Burgundy.

The skeletons in the Tower. Nothing conclusive or even probable. They were found in 1674. Because they were approximately in the age group of the princes, they were declared so and interred at Westminster Abbey. In 1933 the bones were removed and examine. Nothing new, they were those of individuals in that age group (their gender was not determined) and approximately of that time period. The problem with the skeletons is even in the future a DNA test proves they are Edward and Richard, that probably won't tell us how they died and, more critical, exactly when they died.

Recommend Royal Blood by Bertram Field. A very balanced examination and analysis of existing evidence.

[Aristus]

7. Or the Julio-Claudians of Ancient Rome.

I read somewhere that during the recording of the BBC's I, Claudius, the actors were having difficulty understanding the motives of all of the major characters, with the scheming, plotting, betrayals, back-stabbings, intrigues, etc.

The director got the actors together and told them to forget the setting of Classical Rome, and think of the Julio-Claudians as a Mafia family instead.

From then on, everyone involved in the production had their characters down pat.

[NV Whino]

4. Glad to hear they are doing a movie wrap up

They were going to leave it hanging at three seasons for financial reasons. Excellent series.

[PassingFair]

5. My daughter was obsessed with it.

She has the hots for Cesare.

[sarge43]

6. She'll have to take a number.

[kwassa]

8. Enjoyable soap opera

Lotsa nice costumes and settings, great venality.

Top-flight corruption.

[Iggo]

9. I agree.

That ending was for caca, though.

I'm glad they'll be fixing it.

[TorchTheWitch]

11. So far that seems to be the plan

Originally they were to have a fourth and final season that took the story out to the death of Pope Alexander, but because of finances or something there won't be a full fourth season but a two hour movie to wrap it up. Supposedly the creator wants to do the movie instead of the full fourth season...


Rarely have Showtime series been in actual danger of cancellation, but Jeremy Irons' papal drama 'The Borgias' may soon find itself without a fourth season. Via Deadline, we've learned the under-performing period drama could instead graduate to a two-hour movie wrapping up the series plot, in lieu of a fourth season.

"I would like to finish it with a two-hour movie," series creator Neil Jordan told the British press. "Another 10 episodes is kind of exhausting. I've mapped out a movie, which, if (Showtime brass) agree, will shoot in June with the same cast, and finally the Pope will die horribly." 'The Borgias' had long been a moderate ratings performer for Showtime, though recent episodes have gained momentum as high as 674,000 viewers.

Read More: ‘The Borgias’ Season 4 Not Likely, Showtime Plots Movie Wrap-Up? | http://screencrush.com/the-borgias-season-4-movie/?trackback=tsmclip