Comment from Skinner in ATA

[sheshe2]

"And speaking of people who bring nothing positive to the discussion: There are a few Bernie Sanders supporters here on DU who have been utterly dismissive of the legitimate concerns of large segments of the Democratic base. Their attitude is totally human but also completely antithetical to their candidate's efforts to broaden his appeal within the Democratic party. I isn't "fair" but it is a good thing that that type of behavior would NEVER be permitted from a Hillary supporter here on DU, because that type of behavior is a huge turn-off and would not help Hillary in the slightest."

There is a lot more here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12598186

[Gothmog]

1. Skinner is of course correct

Thanks for posting

[hlthe2b]

2. I hope everyone will read Skinner's full comment linked above and take to heart.

I think Skinner is absolutely right on this.

[still_one]

4. I agree. It was quite disheartening, though not surprising, to see some criticizing the message

which is that, while we may disagree, the bashing, stereotyping, and mischaracterizations should be beneath us.

Why anyone would have a problem with that message, really doesn't speak well for them.

A secondary thread about it got locked, which speaks volumes

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=426847

[SCantiGOP]

12. read for yourself

Last edited Mon Jul 6, 2015, 06:11 PM - Edit history (2)

I have seen countless examples:
In a pro-Sanders post - there are no Clinton supporters bashing the candidate, and only a few responses that take exception with what is being said.
In a pro-Clinton post - a majority of the responses are strong, often nasty comments about Hillary Clinton.

Message to our pro-Sanders friends: keep it civil, and you'll have a much better chance of getting your point heard and accepted.

Bernie is my favorite Senator, and Clinton is going to be a hell of a great President.

[still_one]

15. Not sure if I read your post right, but are you saying in the pro-Sanders post that Clinton

supporters are often nasty about the candidate. Objectively, I think it is the pro-Sanders that are more nasty about Hillary, then the reverse

[SCantiGOP]

16. I wasn't an English major obviously

I edited my post to make it clear that you and I are in agreement. My original wasn't clear.

[still_one]

17. I was on a different wave length and read it the wrong way. It wasn't you. Thanks

[Jamastiene]

3. I would honestly love, just for once, if DU could make it through the primaries

without everyone hating each other. It is pointless and wastes a lot of valuable energy that could be put toward more productive activities. I have friends who are supporters of Sanders and friends who are supporters of Clinton. Skinner is right. We *could* get through the primaries without constantly needling each other with stuff we know the other side will find underhanded or just plain obnoxious.

I don't see Clinton or Sanders as evil. I have minor disagreements with each of them on different issues, but both are pretty progressive overall on other issues I care about. I like them both. I voted for Clinton in '08 primaries and Obama in the general. I would like a chance to vote for Bernie Sanders, because I do respect the guy's steadfastness in doing what he believes in all these years. I just want to see him get at least one vote in NC in the primaries, but I don't hate Hillary Clinton. I just don't. If she wins, and most likely she will, I'll vote for her in the general election, no problem.

I wish there was a safe haven somewhere on DU for those of us who plan to vote for Sanders in the primaries, but would have no problem voting for Clinton in the general.

These are going to be some loooong, painful primaries for those of us who have friends on both sides.

[still_one]

5. Unfortunately, I think at least at this time it is about as likely as peace in the middle east.

However, I am noticing a slight up tick where some folks are getting really tired of the bashing going on, especially in regard to the Hillary bashing, so maybe people are growing up

[Dr Hobbitstein]

6. Thank you!

In the real world, there is little of this infighting. The band I'm in consists of a Socialist (my vocalist), 2 Democrats (myself and my drummer), and a Libertarian (my bassist). At the end of practice, we usually sit down and have a few beers and discuss current events. I back Hillary, my drummer and vocalist back Sanders, and my bassist has only voted twice in his 45 years of life (for Bill Clinton's first run, and for McCain against Obama), and has no real opinion of any of the candidates right now. We don't yell at each other, talk down to each other, or smear anyone's preferred candidate (well, I did chide my bassist for his McCain vote, but that was more playful snark).

DU was better when we were all united against Shrub. Instead of this fighting over primary candidates, we should be talking about ways to UNITE our party and take back our Congress. As important as the Presidency is, it's more important to have a strong, liberal Congress.

[freshwest]

40. I planned to vote for BS in the primary as well. The HRC took me in with all my doubts. I was honest

with them and they accepted that. I don't intend to vote in the primary now.

I can't support what I've seen here, although I agree with BS's philosophy even though he's not been able to make changes. HRC, although imperfect, has.

At this point, I see them as virtually the same. HRC made his election to the Senate a priority for HILLPAC, meaning she agrees with his vision. He says he likes her.

She's welcomed him to the race. She has fought decades of RW hate, it's been an industry. Many people have grown up since Reagan and have been living the Rush, Rove, Faux world.

At this time you are the third BS supporter I have talked to. Now the BS avatar turns me off as much as HRC did during the 2008 election because of the PUMAs. I know they were not her, but it carries through.

Now I feel that way about BS - since I have seen numerous threads, not so many now as there were though - of people saying they would not vote if HRC was the candidate. IOW, they're PUMAs.

Some claim they have not seen these or any negative posts even as they are making them. But obviously you have and don't like it any better than I do.

There is something going on here that has nothing to do with BS or HRC. Just disunity. That benefits thte GOP. So at this point, I'm hanging out with the people who accept my view which has allowed me the liberty to see a view of her and what she means to so many disadvantaged people and what that may mean for the world.

A world that changes from the ground up with the rights of those who have never ever had a say in politics and will bring a new world. And many of them are not Americans. It will be not like Shakespeare's strange new world but could be like Huxley's brave new world that has implications for the human race.

But I see native peoples who don't feel the investment in Bernie's world view, like it or not. It is the one many feel most comfortable with but others don't care about that, they want something newer than his vision.

I admit I feel HRC is going to win the nomination no matter what I do and am at ease, but thought I would be just as at ease with BS. Now I'm not so sure, not because I disagree with him or his ideas.

IDK what will happen in the GE. That's really what I care about and am willing to vote for whoever is the candidate. I wish some would put their prejudices against this woman aside and focus on that.

[Iliyah]

7. K & R

[Thinkingabout]

8. We are better than demolition crews on DNC candidates, this is the nasty job of the GOP.

I am moving to the Tone Down Team or ejecting the violators to the Tune Out Club.

We have a great candidate who has worked a lifetime working and preparing herself for president. She the record and experience, we just have to complete the task as foot soldiers in a big grassroots campaign.

[lamp_shade]

9. Skinner is right. I've been following his advice and intend to continue.

[Tarheel_Dem]

10. Damn right. I trashed the BS Group as well as GDP, but they can't seem to stay out of safe havens.

I think Bains Bane said it best, "Bernie's supporters are his greatest liability".

[sheshe2]

23. I trashed the BS group tonight. DU is brighter now.

I haven't been here much. The garbage made me leave.

The trashing of safe havens is disgusting. Not one safe haven. The BOG, AA HoF and HRC. They believe they own the place and can break the rules. I need to catch my breath for a bit. I have been posting elsewhere. The air is so much fresher there.

Love ya and miss you Tarheel.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. There's absolutely no respite from them. It's almost like a game to them at this point.

If it were newbies, I'd understand that they probably don't know the purpose of "safe havens", but it's long time DU'ers who seem to flaunt the rules, just to start a fight.

[onehandle]

11. There are few 'Bernie Sanders supporters' here. It's still the 'Not Hillary' Party at DU.

For months people here were all agog about a Elizabeth Warren candidacy.

In about a five minute switch, they became 'Bernie supporters.'

Many of them still have Warren graphics in their signatures.

I love Bernie. I love Elizabeth. They hate Hillary.

End of story.

[SCantiGOP]

13. onehandle:

I think this is the third time recently I have replied to one of your posts with complete agreement. In this case, this is what I would like to K&R:

I love Bernie. I love Elizabeth. They hate Hillary.

End of story.

How about just posting for me from now on and saving me the time?

[Starry Messenger]

14. I think "utterly dismissive" is a bit of an understatement.

I'm glad he said something, but checks on some of the worst offenders might also be welcome.

[Cha]

18. "And speaking of people who bring nothing positive to the discussion: There are a few Bernie

Sanders supporters here on DU who have been utterly dismissive of the legitimate concerns of large segments of the Democratic base."

"Dismissive" yeah, in a mean spirited way.

Thank you, she, for posting Skinner's commnet from ATA..

[Jim Lane]

19. Clinton supporters are also, all too frequently, dismissive of legitimate concerns.

Skinner's statement is true as far as it goes but it misleads by omission. It correctly identifies a fault but conveys the impression that the fault is solely on one side. That insinuation is incorrect.

Are there more Sanders supporters here who are dismissive or otherwise uncivil? Yes, because there are more Sanders supporters here, period. If you bothered to tally up the posts where the number of words in the text is divisible by five, there would be more pro-Sanders than pro-Clinton posts.

To my mind, the single most disgusting thing that we've seen from some Clinton supporters (certainly not all, thank goodness) is the charge that any criticism of Clinton can serve only to weaken the chances of the Democratic ticket next Novembers (the assumption being that Clinton will head that ticket) and that any such criticism must therefore be a Republican meme or right-wing trolling or the like. Posts of that sort certainly deserve to be called "utterly dismissive of the legitimate concerns of large segments of the Democratic base."

[sheshe2]

20. You are in the Hillary Clinton Group.

To my mind, the single most disgusting thing that we've seen from some Clinton supporters (certainly not all, thank goodness) is the charge that any criticism of Clinton can serve only to weaken the chances of the Democratic ticket next Novembers (the assumption being that Clinton will head that ticket) and that any such criticism must therefore be a Republican meme or right-wing trolling or the like. Posts of that sort certainly deserve to be called "utterly dismissive of the legitimate concerns of large segments of the Democratic base."

Go post that in the BS Group. We really don't want you here. We have a safe haven. Go post it in there's. Stop disrupting this group.

Hey Jim, FYI your group are the ones that are being dismissive. Ask the AA group. Oh wait, never mind. They left the board the other night. I will send you some links if you wish.

[hrmjustin]

22. The poster will not be posting in here anymore.

[hrmjustin]

21. Did you really just now come into our safe haven and post this.

You won't be posting in here anymore.

[sheshe2]

24. Thank you.

[hrmjustin]

27. And you came in here to the HRC room to scold us?

[PatrickforO]

30. Well I didn't actually realize I was in the HRC room, so sorry.

[hrmjustin]

32. I suggest you self delete you original post.

[PatrickforO]

35. So there you go...

[hrmjustin]

36. Thank you.

[sheshe2]

31. You have your own group, please go post there.

You are in the Clinton Group. Please go away.

[chillfactor]

28. I agree with Skinner...

the downright bashing...especially of Hillary...has really been disgusting....concentrate on the POSITIVES of the candidate you support and knock off the ugly crap....

[brewens]

29. I'm for the candidate that acts like what Democrats used to act like. As I'd like to see our

country at least try and be what it was supposed to be at one time. I'm not sure we actually tried very hard to make it the way we said it was. Both Roosevelts are heroes of mine. At least the freakin' tried! You can guess who I'm for.

[hrmjustin]

33. .

[sheshe2]

34. Yes, that would be Barack Obama...

And soon Hillary Clinton. They are indeed Democrats.

You are in a group, what don't you understand about groups? You have your own, go post in it!

[hrmjustin]

37. Problem solved.

[Cha]

39. President Barack Obama has been a great Dem for our country and Hillary Clinton will be the

next great Democratic President of the USA.

[gwheezie]

38. I have renewed my 08 vow

I'm not going to bash any dem running for the nomination and will work to keep a dem in the WH. I am going to resist the snark urge with fellow dems. I support Hillary by a smidge over Sanders. I will point out why I think she would be the best candidate but I honestly think Bernie and OMalley would make terrific presidents. I could support Hillary and wind up that Bernie is the nominee or OMalley, and I will do all I can to get them elected. I'm not going to get mad about it.
I sure hope this isn't going to be a repeat of 08.

[freshwest]

41. +1