Hyundai Electric Fuel Cell ix35 Covers 435 Miles On Single Tank Of Hydrogen

[nationalize the fed]

Antony Ingram Green Car Reports.com Jul 11, 2014

If there's one area that electric vehicles still lag their combustion counterparts, it's in the distance you can travel between stops to recharge. It's one area that companies producing fuel-cell vehicles will be keen to capitalize on too, and Hyundai has proven that long-distance ability with its Tucson Fuel Cell...

...Norwegian non-profit eco-pioneers Marius Bornstein and Arnt G. Hartvig took an example of the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell--the car's European moniker--from Norway's capital Oslo to Malmö in Sweden, passing via Gothenburg (Sweden) and Danish capital Copenhagen on the way...

...In European testing, the Tucson Fuel Cell is officially rated at 369 miles, meaning the duo beat the stated numbers despite the real-world conditions. Bornstein said the pair had originally planned to stop in Copenhagen, but realized the car was capable of going even further.

"To achieve this distance on just one tank of hydrogen shows the potential of this technology and the ability of the Hyundai ix35 Fuel Cell" he said after completing the drive. "I believe this is a world record."...snip...
FULL ARTICLE: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1093227_hyundai-tucson-fuel-cell-covers-435-miles-on-single-tank-of-hydrogen

*********
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell: Hydrogen-Powered Motoring for $499 a Month
AUSTIN LINDBERG Car and Driver.com November 2013

The Tucson Fuel Cell isn’t anything earth-shatteringly new, though. Hyundai sells the ix35 Fuel Cell—which is identical to the U.S.-spec model debuting at the Los Angeles auto show in every way save for its name—in Europe. The Tucson-badged model uses the same in-house-developed fuel-cell stack, lithium-polymer battery, and hydrogen tank capable of carrying 12.3 pounds of the gas as does its Euro-market counterpart. It also delivers the same 134 horsepower and 221 lb-ft of torque by means of the same electric motor.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-hyundai-tucson-fuel-cell-photos-and-info-news

12.3 pounds = 5.579 Kilograms
435 mi / 5.579 kg= 78.09 MPKG on fuel that can be made from water
And the only exhaust is ...Water

[rurallib]

1. Is (or will) the cost of this be comparable to gas?

[nationalize the fed]

3. right now a little more than gas

but within a few years the goal is ~$4 per gallon/kilogram in today's dollars.
With some R&D it should go lower, and you can always make it from solar.
After the panels are paid for, it's free -except for the cost of water.

Energy Department Invests $20 Million to Advance Hydrogen Production and Delivery Technologies
June 16, 2014

The six hydrogen production RD projects selected today aim to produce, deliver, and dispense hydrogen at less than $4 per gallon gasoline equivalent-
full article:http://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/energy-department-invests-20-million-advance-hydrogen-production-and-delivery

[oldhippie]

6. "After the panels are paid for, it's free -except for the cost of water."

Uh, I think you forgot that little piece called the electrolyzer. You also have to pay for that. Like one of these:

http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/pdfs/progress13/ii_a_6_norman_2013.pdf

Technical Barriers
This project addresses the following technical barriers
from the Hydrogen Production section of the Fuel Cell
Technologies Office Multi-Year Research, Development and
Demonstration (MYRDD) Plan
[1]:

(F) Capital Cost
(G) System Efficiency and Electricity Cost

See, I have been doing some of the research you recommended.

Now, it seems that the spiffy electrolyzer in last year's progress report is a prototype of the state of the art, and still has barriers of cost and efficiency (performance.) And they very carefully do not mention the capital cost of the unit. So, the technology isn't quite there yet.

I'll tell you what. I have solar panels, and I have water (oh, forgot to mention that it has to be very PURE water so as not to contaminate the electrolyzer cells) and I love to tinker with systems concepts. If you buy me one of those spiffy Giner electrolyzers like the one in the report, I'll start making some hydrogen.

BTW, I have worked with the folks from Giner on a previous fuel cell development about 8 years ago. Smart folks, and they will get this figured out, but not yet and not cheap.

[OnlinePoker]

2. "...fuel can be made from water..."

Except that right now it is almost all produced from natural gas and the ability to ramp up to heavy hydrogen production from water is years away.

[nationalize the fed]

4. 60 years ago Americans went to the moon

in a decade.

"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
-John F. Kennedy

[center]
Where the hell is this attitude today?

"We choose to drone bomb clusters of civilians not because it is hard but because it is easy"[/center]

If the current crop of Americans need years to figure out how to split hydrogen from water to build up a green alternative to oil then something went wrong. Seriously wrong.

ITM can do it now. But they're European.

http://www.itm-power.com/hydrogen-tv/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ITMPowerPlc/videos

[NickB79]

7. The Apollo Project was small potatoes in comparison

And anyone with ANY sense of the scale of the problem recognizes this.

Sending a rocket with a few men to the Moon and back pales in comparison to converting the entire transportation system of the US over to hydrogen fuel cells.

[FogerRox]

8. Onsite electrolysis seems to be quite popular for hydrogen stations

Except that right now it is almost all produced from natural gas

At least half if not more hydrogen stations for fuel cell vehicles in the US and western EU use onsite electrolysis.

[OnlinePoker]

9. Do you have a source for that?

I know Honda has shown station designs with solar panels on the roof, but there's no way they could produce commercial quantities of hydrogen.

[oldhippie]

10. I did a quick calculation of the solar capacity ....

.... of those Honda stations pictured in another thread. The PV arrays shown are capable of about 81 kWHr per day (averaged over the year) and with that energy the electrolyzers can produce the hydrogen equivalent of less than 2 gallons of gasoline per day.

I would also like to see the source for the claim made above.

[nationalize the fed]

12. yeah and the first EV used lead acid batteries

Hydrogen tech is in its infancy, just like battery tech.

There will be huge game changing innovations for both.

Fuel Cells combined with next generation batteries (Lithium isn't going to do it) are the future. No question about it. Toyota bet their company on it and they've got some pretty smart engineers.

[oldhippie]

14. Here is a really interesting comparison ....

Long, but worth the read.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2303255-teslas-fuel-cell-threat?ifp=0


Tesla's Fuel Cell Threat
Jul. 8, 2014 4:44 AM ET
Summary

Fuel cells could be the death of Tesla, even if fuel cell cars aren't as good.
It's the cost of the car, not just the cost of the cells that matters.
Tesla's Giga Factory tells the story, and investors should pay very special attention.
Recent advances in fuel cells are a threat to long-range battery electric cars, and particularly to Tesla (TSLA). If fuel cells turn out to be a less costly way for automakers to build efficient, clean, long-range cars, then fuel cells cars will disrupt BEVs before BEVs disrupt the ICE car business and Tesla will be "road kill". Tesla shorts will laugh all the way to the bank, and Tesla longs will end up older, wiser and poorer. This could happen. Or not.

Much more at link.

[nationalize the fed]

11. here

(PDF) http://cafcp.org/sites/files/20140211_H2-Station-profiles.pdf

Hydrogen Fueling Station Emeryville CA
Station Information
Address: 1172 45th St.
Emeryville, CA 94608
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 65 kg/day (electrolyzer)

• Hydrogen Source/Storage: Proton OnSite electrolyzer using 100% renewable solar-powered electricity produces 65 kg/day of hydrogen for passenger vehicles


Hydrogen Fueling Station Cal State LA
Station Information
Address: 5151 State University Drive
Los Angeles, CA 90032
Station Status: Commissioning Phase
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 60 kg/day
Fuels: 10-15 vehicles/day

Hydrogen Supply/Equipment
• Hydrogen Source/Storage: Hydrogenics Electrolyzer: 60kg/day H2
Production
Storage: 60kg gaseous H2 storage


Hydrogen Fueling Station -West LA/Santa Monica
Station Information
Address: 11576 Santa Monica Blvd.
West Los Angeles, CA 90025
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000 psi only
Supply Capacity: 30 kg/day
Fuels: 3-5 cars/day

Hydrogen Supply/Equipment
• Hydrogen Source/Storage: On site electrolyzer (30 kg/day capacity) 44 kg H2 storage at 7,500 PSI

Here's the station that will supply the Hyundai FCEV
Hydrogen Fueling Station Fountain Valley CA
Station Information
Address: 10844 Ellis Ave
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
Station Status: Open to public
Hours of Operation: 24/7
PIN Required: Yes
Fuel Pressures: 5,000/10,000 psi
Supply Capacity: 100 kg/day
Fuels: 25-30 cars/day

• Hydrogen Source/Storage: Renewable hydrogen produced on site from methane gas generated from wastewater at OCSD treatment plant

there's no way they could produce commercial quantities of hydrogen.

Unbelievable.

Green Hydrogen facility opens at Berlin airport, with first refueling of a fuel cell Electric Vehicle.



The first fuel cell electric vehicle has been refueled at the ‘Green Hydrogen Hub’ (H2BER) of the Total multi-energy fueling station at the new Berlin Brandenburg Airport (BER) under construction in Germany, using hydrogen produced onsite via electrolysis using wind and solar energy.

In addition to refueling fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs), the H2BER project also anticipates operation of a combined heat and power (CHP) plant with regeneratively produced hydrogen, and its supply into the public gas network. It thus offers an opportunity to conduct research into the 'energy transition'n as a single system.

By 2016, the H2BER partners – Total Deutschland, Linde, McPhy Energy, Enertrag, and 2G Energy – will have invested more than €10 million (US$13.7 million), with a further €5 million in public funding from the federal government, coordinated by NOW GmbH.

"The operating principle is based on applying hydrogen as an energy source produced using wind power and solar energy. Initially the electricity required will be provided by a nearby wind park."

http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/38624/green-hydrogen-facility-opens-at-berlin-airport-with-first-refueling-of-fuel-cell-vehicle/

[FogerRox]

15. Look at my OP list, we've covered it fairly well in this very forum

[w4rma]

5. But much more expensive to drive than an electric plug-in.

Now if they made a hybrid version of this, that would be nice.

[nationalize the fed]

13. Tesla Model S-85kW: $70,000 base price

fully loaded- >$100,000

How much did a 486 mhz computer cost in 1988 and what was it capable of?

Compared to nuclear and other sources very little has been spent on hydrogen tech. Chu said it wasn't worth it a few years ago and shut down the spigot. Apparently since then he's "changed his mind" (like Obama did with the insurance mandate)

How much did a Prius cost when it first appeared >10 years ago?

Toyota to supply fuel cell vehicle parts to other automakers

NAGOYA – Toyota Motor Corp. is planning to provide the major components of fuel cell vehicles to other automakers to promote their entry into the market, company officials said.

Since the huge cost of developing the next-generation cars will be difficult for midsize companies to bear, Toyota is considering supplying such parts as fuel cells, high-pressure hydrogen tanks and motors to accelerate the spread of FCVs...

“For cutting costs, technological innovation is important but mass production is effective,” said a Toyota executive.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/03/business/corporate-business/toyota-supply-fuel-cell-vehicle-parts-automakers/

We are at the beginning of a total energy revolution. Everything will change in the next few years. The people reading this are seeing the end of the oil era. It's the biggest thing since sliced bread.