Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumJordanians urge Amman to scrap peace treaty with Israel
Thousands of Jordanians took to the streets, calling on the government to scrap its peace treaty with Israel, which they accuse of violations in Jerusalem's flashpoint Al-Aqsa Mosque compound.
Demonstrations broke out on Friday in several cities after weekly Muslim prayers, with around 5,000 rallying in Amman.
"No Zionist embassy on Jordanian soil," chanted the demonstrators.
They demanded the cancellation of the 1994 Jordan-Israel peace treaty, carrying signs that said "scrapping the Wadi Araba treaty is the response" to Israeli "violations" against Palestinians in Jerusalem.
"The land is ours, Jerusalem is ours and Allah is with us," read another banner.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/10/jordanians-urge-amman-scrap-peace-treaty-israel-151016153312344.html
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Why would Jerusalem be theirs?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I'm guessing by "Jerusalem is ours" they mean the same thing as when the Israelis say it.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I don't think he is, but he has made the same statement.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Your point being?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)With respect to Jerusalem, it seems to be the former rather than the latter for many.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Dirty tribal land wars in another continent shouldn't be a political issue here.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)If so, do you agree with its vision for Jerusalem?
It seems pretty reasonable to me.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Could the people shouting that be Palestinians?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Are they calling for a return to the Jordanian occupation of East Jerusalem?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)knowing full well Jordan already has it's hands ful, it timing of this take over of the Haram al Sharif/Temple MOunt is unmistakable
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Muslims only?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)all depends on what one wishes for
shenmue
(38,506 posts)to "push the Jews into the sea," like Arafat said.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)"from the rivers to the sea, Palestine will be free"
[youtube]
The meaning is crystal clear.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)to the sea - but the river in mind was the Euphrates
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Please provide a citation.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)well we'll start here if you want more I'll gladly supply it
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I'd like to read whatever it is you read.
Can you provide a link or the name of a book
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Because that appears to be the source of the image.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Ze'ev Jabotinsky was born 1880 in Odessa-Tsarist Russia to a liberal Jewish
family. He is considered to be the most important right-wing Revisionist Movement
member (which eventually evolved into the post-1948 Herut Party, and later
became the Likud Party), who provided the ideological map for its future policies.
At an early stage Jabotinsky was involved in organizing a militia to defend the Jews of
Odessa, and in 1903 he went to Kishinev to cover the aftermath of its infamous pogrom. He worked as a journalist in Rome and Vienna
and at an early age began to devote his outstanding skills as a writer, orator,
translator, and polemicist for the Zionist cause. During WWI, Jabotinsky had promoted the establishment of Jewish fighting
units within the Allied armies and was one of the founders of the Haganah (the
Zionists paramilitary militia-army before the 1948 war).
Jabotinsky protested the exclusion of Transjordan from British Mandate
Palestine, and in response he established the Revisionist Party in 1925 (so named because it
sought to "revise" the terms of the Mandate, particularly to provide
for the re-inclusion of Transjordan in Mandatory Palestine). He also set up the
party's youth movement, Betar, which was characterized by militaristic, some
might say fascist, appearance (dark brown uniforms), activities (parade ground
drill) with firearm exercises, slogans, and a militaristic ideology and structure. Jabotinsky
admired Mussolini (see photo), and
his movement repeatedly sought affiliation with and
assistance from Rome. Jabotinsky version of Zionism was single minded, exclusivist,
and rigid. He
died in America in 1940 in a car accident on a mission to organize Jewish participation in the
Allied war effort.
Jabotinsky was an exceptionally talented and versatile man, an original thinker
and ideologue, and a powerful political leader. His followers worshiped him (and
still do today), while
his enemies detested him with equal passion. Jabotinsky was one of the earliest advocates of
using force to curb Palestinian nationalism, which he eloquently
articulated in his IRON WALL
article that was published in Ha'aretz Daily in 1923. He stated:
".... Settlement can thus develop under the protection of a force that
is not dependent on the local population, behind an IRON WALL which they will be
powerless to break down. ....a voluntary agreement is just not possible. As long
as the Arabs preserve a gleam of hope that they will succeed in getting rid of
us, nothing in the world can cause them to relinquish this hope, precisely
because they are not a rubble but a living people. And a living people will be
ready to yield on such fateful issues only when they give up all hope of getting
rid of the Alien Settlers. Only then will extremist groups with their slogan
'No, never' lose their influence, and only then their influence be transferred
to more moderate groups. And only then will the moderates offer suggestions for
compromise. Then only will they begin bargaining with us on practical matters,
such as guarantees against PUSHING THEM OUT, and equality of civil, and national
rights."
Contrary to the mainstream Zionist leadership, Jabotinsky publicly spoke his
mind, and in our opinion, he also strategically influenced the conduct of the
Zionist movement towards the Palestinian people. From the start, he criticized
the ideologues in the Zionist leadership (such as Ben-Gurion and Moshe Sharett)
who thought that Palestinians could be bribed into selling their country and
rights. Jabotinsky thought that Jewish justice overrides Palestinian rights, and he was
the first to warn the Zionist Movement that the clash between Jewish and
Palestinian nationalisms is inevitable, and it should not be ignored. On the
other hand, he advocated the use of force to curb the inevitable clash and to
keep it at bay, instead of negotiating with the Palestinian people to resolve this issue. In that respect he stated in 1923
The Arabs loved their country as much as the Jews did. Instinctively,
they understood Zionist aspirations very well, and their decision to resist them
was only natural ..... There was no misunderstanding between Jew and Arab, but
a natural conflict. .... No Agreement was possible with the Palestinian Arab;
they would accept Zionism only when they found themselves up against an 'iron wall,' when they realize they had no alternative but to accept Jewish settlement."
(America And The Founding Of Israel,
p.
90)
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story640.html
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What an interesting choice for a source.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Under the Balfour Declaration, Britain promised the Zionists both Palestine and Transjordan (modern-day Jordan). Pressure from Arab countries forced Britain to renege on the promise of Transjordan in 1922. The Zionist movement's mainstream, led by David Ben-Gurion and Chaim Weizman, accepted Britain's decision. Later, they agreed to accept British decisions to limit Jewish immigration into Palestine.
This provoked a major split in the Zionist movement as a minority, led by Polish writer Vladimir Jabotinsky, protested Ben-Gurion's and Weizman's realpolitik. Jabotinsky argued that Zionists should insist on capturing "both sides of the Jordan" and refuse to abide by any limitations the British imposed.
To placate Arab opinion, the World Zionist Organization called its colony in Palestine "a homeland." But Jabotinsky insisted that Zionists speak openly of their goal to build a Jewish state in Palestine. Jabotinsky's program amounted to a call for revising the World Zionist Organization's strategy, thereby earning his followers the description "Revisionists" in the Zionist movement.
Jabotinsky wrote bluntly in his 1923 essay "The Iron Wall":
We cannot give any compensation for Palestine, neither to the Palestinians nor to other Arabs. Therefore, a voluntary agreement is inconceivable. All colonization, even the most restricted, must continue in defiance of the will of the native population. Therefore, it can continue and develop only under the shield of force, which comprises an Iron Wall which the local population can never break through. This is our Arab policy. To formulate it any other way would be hypocrisy.
http://socialistworker.org/2010/06/10/zionisms-colonial-project
oberliner
(58,724 posts)It seems that you are relying on websites who make no bones about the fact that they aren't too keen on Zionists.
If I wanted to learn about the history Palestinian nationalism, I wouldn't start with sites who were unapologetically unfriendly to such an idea to get my information.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Documents that prove Jewish ownership of property purchased in Jordan during the Ottoman rule do not have any legal standing, a Jordanian minister said in an attempt to allay public concerns over a plan by an extremist right-wing Israeli group to expand settlements beyond the West Bank, into Jordan."Selling lands to foreigners is governed by a strict and meticulous legislation," the minister of state for media affairs and communications, Nabil Sharif, said.
The minister's statements come as The Israel Land Fund, which has bought land and dozens of houses in occupied Palestinian territory in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, announced plans to bring Jews from European countries to purchase Jewish property in Jordan since the government here does not allow Israelis to buy property."There are thousands of Jewish properties in Jordan which were purchased during the Ottoman era and under the British mandate" which ended when Jordan became independent in 1946, the fund's chairman Arieh King told Agence France-Presse.
"We have records of the ownership," he added. Jordan sequestered most Jewish-owned land following the creation of the Jewish state in 1948.But according to Mr Sharif, a land settlement law enacted in Transjordan in 1933 cancelled all ownerships registered under Ottoman rule. "The documents do not have any legal value," he said.Jordan and Israel are bound by a peace treaty signed in 1994 and there are no articles in Jordanian law that ban Israelis from purchasing land.
Foreigners are allowed to purchase land in the kingdom within specially-zoned areas, provided that their home country permits reciprocal treatment. Israel, however, does not allow Jordanians to buy property within its borders."We are [confident] that our laws are capable of confronting any situation," Mr Sharif said.Foreigners who seek to purchase land in Jordan require several official approvals, starting with the ministry of finance and ending with the security services.
For analysts, attempts by the Israel Land Fund to purchase property in Jordan did not come as a surprise. "It reflects the right-wing Likud policy to [solving] the Palestinian-Israeli conflict at the expense of Jordan," said Adnan Hayajneh, a professor of political science at the Hashemite University in Zarqa. Others see it as part of an Israeli project to control Jordan. "This is part of Israel's interests ? Israelis believe from a religious point of view that Jordan is part of their country," said Badi al Rafiah, head of the anti-normalisation committee at the Jordan Professional Associations.
http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/jordan-hits-back-over-jewish-land-claims
Israeli
(4,159 posts)That is utterly ridiculous oberliner and devious to say the least .
How are these sources ?
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/Revisionist_Zionism.html
Irgun Tz'va'i Leumi (Etzel)
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irguntoc.html
Lohamei Herut Yisrael (Lehi)
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/lehi.html
The leader as a poet: the political and ideological poetry of Ze'ev Jabotinsky
Source: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13537121.2014.889890?mobileUi=0&journalCode=fisa20
The Evolution of the Israeli Right: From Jabotinsky to Begin to Netanyahu
Published on Jan 30, 2015
On August 23, 2012 at the Luxe Hotel Sunset in Los Angeles, Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors presented an evening devoted to exploring the historical roots of the Israeli right, from Vladimir Jabotinsky to Menachem Begin to Benjamin Netanyahu, and a discussion of its current relevance to what is happening in Israel today.
Vladimir Jabotinsky was a journalist, essayist, translator, author, novelist, orator, military leader, and head of the Revisionist Zionist movement, which attempted to return Zionism in the 1920s and 1930s to its Herzlian roots. Menachem Begin was one his principal followers, the head of Jabotinskys youth movement in Poland and later the leader of its military wing, the Irgun. Benjamin Netanyahus father was Jabotinskys personal secretary, and Prime Minister Netanyahu has frequently cited Jabotinsky as an influence on him in considering the current threats against Israel.
Understanding the current status of the right in Israel requires an understanding of the connections and also the differences -- between these three historic figures. It may also provide some insights into the approach of the current Israeli government as it faces a continuing existential threat.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)or this ....and establishment of a "Hebrew kingdom from the Euphrates to the Nile."
....your not denying it now ??
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that the West Bank is "our land?"
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Presumably the same way you feel about those in the video?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)I would say you care very much.
Much more than the average American who probably doesn't care at all ( unless they are actually involved in this like say Jews or Muslims for example)
And your caring seems completely voluntarily.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)agenda. It's how they rope a lot of otherwise liberal Democrats into supporting military adventures in the Middle East.
This group is full of examples of so-called liberals who talk like Rush Limbaugh when the subject is Arabs and Muslims.
King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Apparently these are interesting times for the Muslim Brotherhood:
Jordans Muslim Brotherhood at crossroads
Source: Middle East Eye, 17 July 2015
Once Jordan's most organised and strongest opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood finds itself divided - why?
AMMAN Seventy years after its foundation, Jordans Muslim Brotherhood stands at a crossroads after an unprecedented rift has split the group.
Once Jordans most organised and strongest opposition, the brotherhood is now divided into two groups: a recently registered charitable society and the original organisation which has been declared illegal by the Jordanian authorities.
A 1946 cabinet decision licensed Jordans MB as an offshoot of Egypts Muslim Brothers. But recently, the Jordanian government started started sending messages to the group to correct their legal status.
In March, Abdul Majid Thunaibat, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood, registered a new group called the Muslim Brotherhood society, as a national charitable organisation that is dedicated to national affairs.
Read more: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jordan-s-muslim-brotherhood-crossroad-1662666680