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Israeli

(4,151 posts)
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 04:11 AM Nov 2014

The Temple Mount: Israel's tale of loons and darkness

It's crazy to link events that might have happened thousands of years ago to the political reality of 2014.

By Gideon Levy

Anyone who wants to track the progress Israel has made on the steep slope toward fanaticism, religiosity and backwardness must examine its relationship to the Temple Mount. Anyone who insists on labeling Israel a modern Western country can’t ignore the extraordinary change that has taken place in recent years. And anyone who still thinks this is a nonreligious society must heed the dark and insane forces that motivate it.

In no country in the West — which Israel pretends to belong to, more and more in vain — does an archeological site turn into an “existential foundation” and excuse for bloodshed. In no country in the West is holiness a matter of policy.

There’s a link between Ehud Olmert’s former bureau chief Shula Zaken and the Temple Mount: In both cases it’s a tale of darkness. It’s impossible to arrogantly laugh at the woman who held such a powerful position, who needed the advice of her psychic Ophira, and in the same breath accept the making of the Temple Mount such a key issue.

The two phenomena are equally ludicrous, though the Temple Mount version is more harmful. What until recently was a matter for crazies, the lovers of strange tales, has suddenly become a fateful issue.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.625357
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Temple Mount: Israel's tale of loons and darkness (Original Post) Israeli Nov 2014 OP
continued......... Israeli Nov 2014 #1
Gideon Levy should be careful about insulting the prophet oberliner Nov 2014 #2
Its always a possibility oberliner.... Israeli Nov 2014 #3
Stark raving mad, and very full of themselves and their own importance too. bemildred Nov 2014 #4
Idiotic OP arguing against all non-Muslim prayer at Temple Mt compound.... shira Nov 2014 #5
" Tiny " .... Israeli Nov 2014 #6
Tiny, like their polar opposite anti- & post- Zionist whacko buddies... shira Nov 2014 #7
Thankfully this appears to be a small sabbat hunter Nov 2014 #8
All non-Muslim prayer is banned on the Temple Mount compound.... shira Nov 2014 #9
They are not a " very tiny group " ..... Israeli Nov 2014 #10
according to that article sabbat hunter Nov 2014 #12
It is a report not an article..... Israeli Nov 2014 #13
no other country? MisterP Nov 2014 #11

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
1. continued.........
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 04:14 AM
Nov 2014

Do you remember the red heifer? The coming of the Messiah and the rebuilding of the Temple have been beloved items for the editors of newspapers’ inside pages when nothing is happening, not to mention our empty-headed talking heads on afternoon television. It’s always possible to bring in some loon with a new interpretation of Jewish law on the matter.

And suddenly, a revolution: The Temple Mount has become an issue. “He who controls the Mount controls the land,” wrote a commentator with unfathomable seriousness this weekend, as if he were living in the Middle Ages.

Of course, you’re allowed to believe in anything — that on this hill the world was created, that Isaac was bound on it, that Mohammed ascended to heaven on it. But what’s the connection between all these events, which happened or did not happen 2,000 to 3,000 years ago, and the political reality of 2014?

Most Israelis have never visited the Temple Mount. They won’t now either; it wasn’t exactly at the top of their agenda.

In central Jerusalem a measure of logic has prevailed: (believing) Jews go to the Western Wall, and (believing) Muslims go to the Dome of the Rock (as far as the occupation lets them), in the name of each of their Gods. What’s wrong with that?


But the Israeli right wing’s uncontrolled lust for real estate, with its seething hatred for Arabs, of course hasn’t ignored this site either. If Shiloh is ours because it was once the “inheritance of the tribe of Ephraim,” the Temple Mount is ours because of the “Foundation Stone.”

A country in which this is the criteria for taking over land is of course a psychotic country. A society that seriously believes in such a thing and is willing to wage a violent battle over it in the 21st century is in a suicidal state.

It’s easy to blame the right-wing politicians who are instigating a war over this crazy hill, but they’re not the main ones to blame. In a society where the number of people kissing mezuzahs constantly rises, where religion and state are bound in a mixture of folklore and hatred of others, right-wing politicians know that their actions will benefit them politically.

Cynical and superficial, their cart is empty. They know that soon, if not already, a majority here will be for destroying the mosques and rebuilding the Temple. Zaken and Ophira surely have been in favor of that for a long time, but they of course are primitive and dark in the eyes of the majority — who are convinced they live in an enlightened and rational country. You know, the one that invented drip irrigation.


http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.625357

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
2. Gideon Levy should be careful about insulting the prophet
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 06:45 AM
Nov 2014

He best not mock Islam in the same way he regularly mocks Judaism.

He almost does it here but is careful enough not to cross the line (where Islam in concerned).

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
3. Its always a possibility oberliner....
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 07:32 AM
Nov 2014

....but up till now the only threats he has received have been from the likes of these :

#t=278

Which is why he now has a bodyguard .

What’s allowed and what isn’t

As Efron wrote, the mainstream Israeli media do report, and report critically, on violence and threats of violence against left-wing protesters, and on economic sanctions leveled against outspoken celebrities. Furthermore, as he also wrote, Haaretz, +972 and other relatively small left-wing media, as well as commenters on Facebook (except a few radical Israeli Arabs), are free to oppose the government and its wars to their heart’s content. So in these two ways, Israel does not silence dissent.

The way it does, though, is by prohibiting powerful moral criticism of the government’s “security” policy from reaching the mainstream. Gideon Levy got death threats and was hounded wherever he went not because of his columns in Haaretz, but because of his interview on the Channel 2 news while standing on a street in Ashkelon, where bystanders starting yelling at him on camera while one of the guest panelists in the TV studio threatened to walk out. Levy can slam away in Haaretz and live a peaceful life, but once he spoke his mind on Channel 2, the king of Israeli TV, he needed a bodyguard.

And if any more proof is needed, remember the celebrated “town square test” conceived by national hero Natan Sharansky:

" If a person cannot walk into the middle of the town square and express his or her views without fear of arrest, imprisonment, or physical harm, then that person is living in a fear society, not a free society. We cannot rest until every person living in a ‘fear society’ has finally won their freedom. "

Think of Gideon Levy, Orna Banai or Amnon Abramovitch, think of most of the writers at Haaretz and all of us at +972, think of Ahmed Tibi, Haneen Zoabi or Richard Goldstone walking into a public square in this country and expressing his or her views, and ask yourself if, according to Sharansky’s celebrated standard, Israel is a free society or a fear society. Ask yourself if Israel silences dissent.

Source : http://972mag.com/dissent-in-israel-on-the-margins-yes-in-the-mainstream-no/97282/

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
4. Stark raving mad, and very full of themselves and their own importance too.
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 07:38 AM
Nov 2014

"G_d is watching ME!"

I was trying to think of a replacement: "Temple Rise", "Temple Hill", "Temple Ridge", "Temple Bump", "Temple Rock", hmmm, and those are the good ones. They just don't have the same gravitas.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
5. Idiotic OP arguing against all non-Muslim prayer at Temple Mt compound....
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 08:58 AM
Nov 2014

The segregationists argued the same thing in America's deep south decades ago. Allowing blacks equal access would inflame passions and lead to violence, thereby justifying segregated policy.



And the best argument the Team Palestine has is that a tiny sect of unhinged nutters want to blow up the Mosque and replace it with the 3rd Temple. Therefore, all non-Muslim prayer at the site is forbidden and justified on this basis. Not only that, it won't be too long before the majority of Israel's Jews become lunatics who want to blow up al-Aqsa. How's that for odious, racist incitement?

What a loathsome, idiotic, bigoted article. No surprise it's from such a POS like Gideon Levy.


Israeli

(4,151 posts)
6. " Tiny " ....
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 11:32 AM
Nov 2014
Israeli institute prepares priests for Jerusalem's third temple

?t=thumbnail_570



On April 10, at 5 p.m., hundreds of Jews will gather at the Maimonides rabbinical institution plaza in the Kiryat Moshe neighborhood in Jerusalem and start learning the Jewish laws of Passover. Rabbis and experts, including Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, the head of the Temple Institute in the Old City of Jerusalem, the leading body preparing for the establishment of the third temple, will teach the audience the laws of the Passover sacrifice. Alongside Ariel, the ritual slaughterer (shohet) Rabbi Yehudah Giatt will teach the audience about the unique elements of the slaughter of the Passover sacrifice. After the lessons, the real thing will start: the simulation of the Passover sacrifice.

The timing of the gathering isn’t coincidental: This was the date on which the people of Israel were commanded to take a lamb and sacrifice it, before the exodus from Egypt. The ceremony on Thursday will be, in Israel Defense Forces (IDF) lingo, “practice with live fire.” Slaughtering lambs, sprinkling their blood on the altar by priests dressed in kosher priestly garments and roasting the lambs, with their heads, legs and innards. Just as God intended.

This isn’t the first time that the "Association of Temple Organizations" will hold this activity, but this year the practice drill and re-enactment of the Passover sacrifice will be carried out by the students of the school for priests, Nezer Ha-kodesh, which started operating this year. The priest school intends to train the hundreds of priests that would be needed to work at the third temple; many Jews endeavor for its establishment in Israel today.

Ten students, who got to the priests school by word of mouth, paid 1,000 shekels (some $290), a relatively small sum, for twice-weekly lessons, three hours each, that teach “how to be priests.” The director of the school, Rabbi Yehoshua Friedman, hopes that the school will be more properly publicized next year and that more students will arrive. “The rabbis say that the minimum necessary is 13 priests in the temple to carry out the mandatory sacrifices. If you’re talking about a fully operating temple, where people bring their own sacrifices, it’s a place where hundreds of priests work daily,” he says. “In the days of old, a father and grandfather would teach the grandson and son how to be a priest, the commandments and laws. Today, they have to take a course. The prayer to establish the temple has no meaning if we don’t actually prepare for it. Think what would happen if tomorrow you got a functioning temple and don’t have priests.”

There are a great many laws for the temple, some of which have been forgotten and faded over the years: how to use incense, how to light the holy menorah, how to sanctify hands and feet, and of course, how to sacrifice. “The priests themselves come with requests to learn one topic or another. We are also learning as we go how the course should look. The students are very practical and focused,” explains Friedman.

At the Temple Institute, researchers are working hard to relearn the laws as well as study the architecture, location and necessary tools. “One of the unique elements of the course,” says Friedman, “is the actual practice. In my course, they learned how to sacrifice birds, so we brought stuffed doves, so that the priests would learn how to hold them, how to execute the specific moves. We work on standing in front of the altar to demonstrate the action, so that it’ll become natural to them.”

For the temple people, the priests’ course is an advanced stage that follows the completion of quite a few steps. First of all is the level of consciousness. For many years, say those working to establish the third temple, religious Zionism and the State of Israel worked to focus Jewish longing on the Western Wall.

“The Western Wall isn’t a holy place,” declares Arnon Segal, a journalist who devotedly follows the preparations for the establishment of the temple. “It was meant to remove the Temple Mount from the Jewish mind. Opium for the masses.” Segal and his friends have been working in recent years to change the outlook of decision-makers: rabbis, members of the Knesset and other influential Israelis. They have had success: The Jewish presence on the Temple Mount is gaining ground in Jewish-Israeli discourse, members of the Knesset and rabbis are ascending to the Temple Mount more frequently and today a third of the Israeli public believes that when the day comes the temple should be erected. This number is only growing.

“This notion isn’t foreign to most Israelis,” says Segal. “They’re traditional and attached to the texts of the prayers and study of Judaism, which is full of the desire to re-establish the temple. The gap between consciousness and realization isn’t great.”

According to a study undertaken by journalist and social activist Yizhar Beer a year ago for the Ir Amim organization, about 12 official groups are working in Israel today to establish the temple. Some of them receive funding amounting to hundreds of thousands of shekels from the State of Israel. One of the main groups is the Temple Institute.


Thousands of people visit the Temple Institute every year, and it holds various training sessions meant to educate and raise consciousness. But they also work on the pragmatic level: The institute has the holy menorah, a modular altar that could quickly be taken apart and reassembled at the temple, the bronze basin, the shewbread (consecrated unleavened bread) table and no less than 40 sets of kosher priestly garments, which will be the prototype for the thousands of sets to be sewn in the future. The rabbis detailed 93 different tools that were used in the temple, and the Temple Institute also deals with them. “It’s based on very in-depth research done at various places,” explains Segal, “For instance, the garments of the high priest — identifying the stones in the breastplate, the whole issue of blue, purple and scarlet (particular colors mentioned in Exodus 28:6) and their recreation. It’s an entire research project of the past 20 years.”

There’s also an architectural plan. “I compare it to a late model car and a car from a hundred years ago,” explains Friedman, “there’s parts you can’t do without and there’s parts that change. A hundred years ago they also had an engine and wheels, but a lot of things change around it. The third temple will mostly look like the Second Temple, and there’s an organized plan for the Chamber of Hewn Stone, the seat of the Sanhedrin [the ancient high court assembly]. We know clearly that there will be a menorah, an altar, a shewbread table, the Holy of Holies. But we know that there will be no entryway in the sanctuary, what’s called a hall. It did exist in the First and Second Temples. The basin changed a lot over the generations and the Talmud notes that 12 spigots were added to it. It’s unknown how many they had before that.”

Friedman further explains that the modern era will also have a place in the planned temple. “Every judge will have a computer with a database and law decisions available. Fruit and grain sacrifices, which were kneaded by hand in the past to make a mixture for the sacrifice, could now be mixed in a mixer. I wrote a suggestion to build an electric oven to roast the Passover sacrifice, for the sake of the modern generation who don’t necessarily know how to roast a whole lamb,” he says. But he notes that modern advances could also create some difficulties: “The temple subsisted on the half-shekel tax. This money became sanctified when it was transferred to the temple. Today, when payments are made by direct deposit, they will only be numbers in bank accounts and there’s no actual sacred currency. It’s a nuance that needs to be considered.”

Secular Jews wouldn’t be opposed to paying these taxes when the day will come, he’s sure of it. “Just as the ultra-Orthodox pay taxes that go to the army,” he says. One thing is certain: The third temple will have cameras that will transmit what’s happening there to the whole world. The simulated sacrifice this Thursday can also be viewed online on the Temple Institute website.

Everything is ready, then, except two additional, small matters. The easy one, you’d be surprised, is the Ark of the Covenant. “The Second Temple didn’t have an ark, either,” Segel reminds me, and Friedman adds, “There are 10 studies about the location of the Ark of the Covenant. We read them and studied all of them, and reached the conclusion that the right answer is that it’s buried in the tunnels under the Temple Mount. When the day comes, we will get to it.”

The more problematic issue is the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock, which slightly impedes the architectural plans. “The temple will not be built through private acts and blowing up mosques,” emphasizes Segal. “That’s not the direction. The direction is changing consciousness. The preparations are mental more than anything.” One of the people involved in preparations, who requested anonymity, explains, “If not for the problem of the Dome of the Rock, they would build the temple today, and the temple would be built there. The third temple will be built by the government of Israel, not by private individuals. No one will do what shouldn’t be done, like an underground action to blow up the Dome of the Rock. The people who are committed to establishing the temple are normative and rational people, and just like we established the State of Israel, the day will come when we will build the temple, in an orderly, state-sanctioned manner.”

Segel notes that it can all start small: “The location of the altar where sacrifices are allowed on the Temple Mount is not within the bounds of Al-Aqsa,” he says, “so at least they should let us sacrifice on the Temple Mount.” But before any sacrifices take place there, much may have to change: Currently, the State of Israel doesn’t often authorize Jews to ascend to the Temple Mount, much less pray there.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/04/third-temple-jerusalem-priest-offering-rituals-al-aqsa.html
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. Tiny, like their polar opposite anti- & post- Zionist whacko buddies...
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 01:16 PM
Nov 2014

Unhinged, lunatic groups for 1 binational disaster of a state.

Thankfully, not mainstream.

Funny how the anti- and post- Zionists here advocate for positions that are just as racist and discriminatory as their extreme right-wing opponents. Gideon Levy and his unhinged fan base cheerleading for BDS turn out to be no better than their most repugnant, hateful, right-wing foes.



sabbat hunter

(6,829 posts)
8. Thankfully this appears to be a small
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 01:18 PM
Nov 2014

very tiny group of people that are planning on this. Although from my understanding of the bible, they are breaking gods teachings by doing/planning to build a third temple, create a new priestly class, etc.
All of those things are supposed to be determined by god.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
9. All non-Muslim prayer is banned on the Temple Mount compound....
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 01:23 PM
Nov 2014

That shouldn't be determined by any just god.

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
10. They are not a " very tiny group " .....
Sun Nov 9, 2014, 01:55 PM
Nov 2014

read and learn .....

http://www.ir-amim.org.il/sites/default/files/Dangerous%20Liaison_0.pdf

This report describes the modes of action of the Temple movements, the variety of their activities and the wide cooperation the movement enjoys from the government and the political establishment.

Our findings show a dramatic increase in the number and influence
of organizations that covers the spectrum from raising contemporary consciousness of
the role of the Temple to actively aiming at its reestablishment on the Temple Mount/
Haram al-Sharif.

Twenty years ago these organizations were on the radical fringes of the
political and religious map but since 2000 they have attained a respectable position within
the mainstream of the political and religious right and have benefited from close ties with
the authorities of the State of Israel. There is a correlation between the escalation of the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif and around it since 2000
and a parallel increase in the activity of Temple organizations. Although the various Temple
organizations may have differing goals and varying impacts, a common denominator of
religious and nationalist messianism distinguishes the movement as a whole. Religion has
becomes a tool for realizing extreme national goals at a site that is a focal point of political
and religious tension.

sabbat hunter

(6,829 posts)
12. according to that article
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 12:17 AM
Nov 2014

it looks like there are 957 volunteers that are a part of The Temple Mount Faithful.

The The Movement for Temple Renewal -
Hatnua Lekhinun Hamikdas had about 100 members

The others do not list numbers but I bet they are similar in size.

I would consider those very tiny groups.

When each one gets to tens of thousands I will be more concerned. But with a few hundred between the different ones, I am not.

They seem about the same size as the ultra-orthodox jews who say israel should not exist because it is against the teachings of god.




Israeli

(4,151 posts)
13. It is a report not an article.....
Mon Nov 10, 2014, 03:02 AM
Nov 2014

Your numbers are way off ....read it again .

Together all of the groups number in their tens of thousands.

Have you any idea how many followers these Rabbis have ???? : ....

Rabbi Abraham Zuckerman, head of Bnei Akiva Yeshiva, Kfar Haroeh
Rabbi Nachum Eliezer Rabinowitz, head of Birkat Moshe Yeshiva, Ma’ale Adumim
Rabbi Chaim Druckman, head of Bnei Akiva yeshivas, Or Etzion
Rabbi Dov Lior, rabbi of Kiryat Arba, Hebron
Rabbi Zefania Drori, rabbi of city and yeshiva of Kiryat Shmona
Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, head of the Temple Institute, Jerusalem
Rabbi Benayahu Brunner, head of Safed hesder Yeshiva
Rabbi Shalom Gold, rabbi and founder of Kehilat Zichron Yosef, Har Nof
Rabbi Avram Gisser, rabbi of Ofra
Rabbi David Dudkevitz, rabbi of Yitzhar
Rabbi Reem Hacohen, rabbi of Otniel Yeshiva
Rabbi Eliezer Waldman, rabbi of Yeshivat Nir, Kiryat Arba
Rabbi Avraham Wasserman, teacher at Ramat Gan Yeshiva
Rabbi Yosef Toledano, rabbi of Givat Ze'ev
Rabbi Nachman Kahane, author, head of Chazon Yehezkel Yeshiva (Kolel) Seminary
Rabbi Daniel Cohen, rabbi of Bet Ayin
Rabbi Yitzhak Levy, teacher at Har Etzion Yeshiva
Rabbi Yaacov Meda, head of Har Etzion Yeshiva
Rabbi Menachem Makover, head of Veheranu Bevinyano Organization
Rabbi Ben Zion Amar, rabbi of Shvut Rachel
Rabbi Hanan Porat, Kfar Etzion
Rabbi Yosef Peli, El Har Hamor
Rabbi Menachem Felix, Alon Moreh
Rabbi Gideon Perl, rabbi of Alon Shvut
Rabbi Moshe Zuriel, author, Bnei Brak
Rabbi Binyamin Kalmanson, head of Otniel Yeshiva
Rabbi Yigal Kaminsky, rabbi of Gush Katif yeshivas
Rabbi Yehuda Kreuzer, rabbi of Mitzpe Jericho
Rabbi Mordechai Rabinowitz, Kochav Yaacov
Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, head of Tzomet Institute
Rabbi Shlomo Riskin, rabbi of Efrat
Rabbi Shabtai Rappaport, head of Shvut Yisrael Yeshiva, Efrat
Rabbi Yehuda Shaviv, teacher at Har Etzion Yeshiva
Rabbi Daniel Shilo, Kedumim
Rabbi Yitzhak Shilat, teacher at Ma’ale Adumim Yeshiva
Rabbi Yehoshua Schmidt, yeshiva head and rabbi of Shavei Shomron
Rabbi Yehuda Chelouch, Netanya
Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira, head of Od Yosef Chai Yeshiva

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