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ymetca

(1,182 posts)
Thu Feb 9, 2017, 02:58 PM Feb 2017

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (ymetca) on Mon Apr 24, 2017, 12:45 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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This message was self-deleted by its author (Original Post) ymetca Feb 2017 OP
University of Timbuktu heaven05 Feb 2017 #1
Well you are correct, of course ymetca Feb 2017 #2
Timbuktu, of course heaven05 Feb 2017 #3
More really good points.. ymetca Feb 2017 #4
I couldn't agree more heaven05 Feb 2017 #5
They have college courses that can explain this snooper2 Mar 2017 #6
Meaning what exactly? ymetca Mar 2017 #7
Time for Ishmael. greyl Mar 2017 #8
Warning: a rant oldcynic Mar 2017 #9
All really good points! ymetca Mar 2017 #10
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
1. University of Timbuktu
Sat Feb 25, 2017, 11:12 AM
Feb 2017

then world renowned as a university of superior learning. Verified.

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
2. Well you are correct, of course
Mon Feb 27, 2017, 12:00 PM
Feb 2017

There is nothing really "superior" about any civilization by itself. When Europe was in the Dark Ages the Middle East was quite advanced, even egalitarian. But oppression and empire, unfortunately, have been the norm for most of human history. The perennial zero-sum game of Us vs. Them. We're always hearkening back to a better, almost forgotten past, some Golden Kingdom, some Atlantis or Shangri-La, of perfection that never really was.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
3. Timbuktu, of course
Mon Feb 27, 2017, 12:35 PM
Feb 2017

wasn't in the Middle East, it was in Africa. A lot of middle eastern scholars were part of the 25000 plus that were associated with this 12th century university of higher learning, but so were MANY Africans also. Because of human greed and hate based on a multitude of reasons for that hate, there has NEVER been a 'golden age' with ANY form of government on this planet, ever. Nor any form of unity, military, political ect except for limited periods of human history, close to the fanciful Atlantis, Shangri-La 'utopias' et al. that children and some adults might dream about.

YET, my point is, Mathematics, Astronomy, Law, Geography and the then History of their known world were studied there 1900 years ago. Those sciences and consequent learning were exported by European(french mainly) scholars that finally 'found' Timibuktu in 1828. The decline of Mali began with repeated attacks by gun wielding Moroccans and Europeans greedy for the huge gold reserves of that country then and might I add as other reasons, cultural and racial jealousy over the advanced teaching(s)/learning of PoC of the time. But of course, you are right the is nothing "superior" of any race and culture on this planet.

I "harken" because my view of the present is dismal and bleak especially since Jan 20, 2017. This time is the start of the new 'Dark Age' for all not rich whites, males and females, KKKristian and ALL minority supporters of those virulently racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic people slowly taking over this Age..

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
4. More really good points..
Mon Feb 27, 2017, 01:26 PM
Feb 2017

I guess the point I was making was how ignorant are the claims of "cultural" superiority coming from the conservative side. Just because you have better technology at the moment doesn't make you superior, least of all in any moral or ethical sense.

We are barely coming to terms with Evolution, let alone Relativity. Unfortunately, societies are still run by folks who's only interest seems to be preserving their status in hierarchies of control and oppression. It's an "inconvenient truth" that all our tales about our glorious history are largely mythology. Our past was much more syncretic than most of us currently comprehend, myself included.

The education I received in childhood was designed more for obedience than enlightenment. I remember arguing with my science teacher in fourth grade (way back when, in the late 1960's) about the continents not being "fixed", because I had just read an article in Scientific American about plate tectonics, which was not even acknowledged in our out-of-date text books. The teacher simply said that it wasn't true if if wasn't in the course material. So shut up and sit down, little smarty-pants!

That seems to be the dilemma. We're discovering the truth about our history, and how the world really works, much faster than our social structures can keep up. So we have all this blow-back of flag-waving nationalism, religious dogmatism, and hearkening back to some misty past where everything was in its proper place. So I wanted to come up with an "alternative history", just to mess with all this "white identity" crap I keep seeing lately.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
5. I couldn't agree more
Mon Feb 27, 2017, 05:14 PM
Feb 2017

we have a long way to go to evolve toward an Enlightened Age of human existence with peace as it's driving force. I really don't know if that's possible given our milleniums long historical precedent of the human race and it's cultures, a lot of them born in violence and genocide, the world over. Always the hate....

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
6. They have college courses that can explain this
Mon Mar 13, 2017, 01:43 PM
Mar 2017

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
7. Meaning what exactly?
Tue Mar 14, 2017, 03:21 PM
Mar 2017

Snooty snark is sufficient? Put it in your own words next time...

greyl

(22,990 posts)
8. Time for Ishmael.
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 01:41 AM
Mar 2017
Ishmael - Daniel Quinn at Amazon

TEACHER SEEKS PUPIL.
Must have an earnest desire to save the world. Apply in person.

It was just a three-line ad in the personals section, but it launched the adventure of a lifetime.

So begins an utterly unique and captivating novel. In Ishmael, which received the Turner Tomorrow Fellowship for the best work of fiction offering positive solutions to global problems, Daniel Quinn parses humanity’s origins and its relationship with nature, in search of an answer to this challenging question: How can we save the world from ourselves?


Based on the inquisitive nature and specific angle of your OP, I think you'd appreciate it and learn from it.

oldcynic

(385 posts)
9. Warning: a rant
Tue Mar 21, 2017, 10:55 PM
Mar 2017

Race is not a social construct, it is geography. It tells us where our African ancestors settled after diasporic events. Given a few millennia, race became a rumor. (Somebody said there was a place where us had no color and looked like something called snow. My cousin’s uncle’s neighbor said there were places where us was the color of rich bottomland.) More millennia, divergent adaptations, isolation and not us turns into them.
Unfortunately, us or them meant life or death for reproductive males. Any bipedal male hominid not family was likely to kill you, take your females, slay your young and maybe dine on your carcass. Obviously, you need to know who is approaching across your territory. Display behavior might provide silhouette identification but closer up, it’s the way feathers hang, designs are painted, skin is colored, weapons are shaped, etc. By the time we have tribes, states, and so-called civilizations, everybody is trying to lord it over somebody regardless of place, race or lineage.
So, how come we claim or blame color privilege? Don’t kid yourself there is not multi-hued privilege outside the white world. A Chinese physicist once explained to me that white people were barbarians incapable of higher thought. Who is superior depends on who is the biggest rooster in a rigid chicken hierarchy. Power is the determinant, skin color is minuscule. In this framework white should just be another color, but it is not. The sun has yet to set on white hegemony and how did those few Spaniards conquer the Inca Empire?
Today, on the continent of Africa, albinos are killed as profitable talismans of good or evil, depending on who is selling the parts. In North America, native peoples will travel across the continent to see a sacred white buffalo. In the 15th century when people knew, not believed, knew there were demons, witches, gods, goblins, fairies, prophecies, mediums, curses and so much more; rare albinos of any species were tangible proof of whatever you needed tangible proof for. Could be salvation or the vengeance of gods you can’t count for wrongs you didn’t know were committed.
Also in the 15th century, 95% of the population in North and South American had suddenly died from unknown causes and the few survivors were more or less just trying to pick themselves up off the ground. Locals would be certain they have offended some god or other but don’t know which or what to do about it.
Imagine yourself, 600 years ago, trying to cope with a disaster of unbelievable proportions: government barely functions, not enough people to bury the dead, food shortages, and on and on. What if you suddenly saw an albino human-like creature covered in strange armor sitting atop, and controlling, giant four-legged monsters that spew fire and kill from a distance? You would know it’s a god, just not whether it’s an evil or good one. While you hesitate, the Spaniards take over.
Albinos are significant, one way or the other, all over the world. Encountering these powerful albino creatures on horses would have been as terrifying as it would be if you woke up to a mob of Terminators kicking in your door. White privilege was and is a con job. It is finally being challenged and that is decidedly uncomfortable for gooses and ganders. I seriously doubt, when the pecking is over, that whoever ends up “superior” will keep in mind that it is privilege and power that corrupts, not skin color.

ymetca

(1,182 posts)
10. All really good points!
Wed Mar 22, 2017, 11:17 AM
Mar 2017

The fabled "white devil". One might suppose that an early equatorial tribe of darker-skinned people would, on occasion, be shocked by a child being born with significantly paler skin. Such child would be perceived as an evil portent and killed, sacrificed to some god or other to appease. The mother might be suspected of fornicating with a evil spirit. Once that happens, that increases the likelihood that a mother birthing such a child in the future would flee, rather than have her child slaughtered.

One might suggest that the entire fable of the birth of Jesus is a glamorized retelling of this ancient story, flipped on its head, so that the hated child now becomes the "savior". Self-justification for sacrificing kith and kin for the survival of the spooky mutant. A mother's love triumphing over superstitious tribalism. Goethe's "eternal feminine leading to perfection." Planetary DNA taking its first steps toward "escape velocity".


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