NRA working w/ African-Americans interested in hunting, fishing, personal safety in Buffalo NY

[belcffub]

I have a couple of African American friends who hunt and shoot competitively but they are they exception rather then the rule...

this was in today's paper...

Gun club reorganizes on East Side, partially for safety

Shooting sports and firearms training generally are not hot topics in the African-American community.

But some East Side residents mainly concerned about personal safety are reconstituting a dormant hunting and fishing club with the backing of a local National Rifle Association official.

The Dorie Miller Rifle and Pistol Club will primarily serve African-Americans interested in hunting, fishing, outdoor living skills, and sport and competitive shooting. But its founders also hope to encourage protection of family, property and oneself.

[atreides1]

1. Equal but separate

"...will primarily serve African-Americans..."

[PavePusher]

2. Sounds like a geographical/demographical thing.

Why are you trying to play the race card?

[Hoyt]

3. I wouldn't want your typical T-bag gun owner in any group I belong to either.

[spin]

10. While I strongly disagree with the views of the Tea Party ...

I have the intelligence to realize that many smart people disagree with my opinions. Many are Republicans and a few are members of the very conservative Tea Party.

When I encounter such people I listen politely to their views and if I feel it might be productive I counter with my far more liberal and progressive opinions. If the discussion threatens to turn into an angry argument, I simply break it off and mention that we can agree to disagree.

I feel that it is foolish to assume that those who disagree with your viewpoint are unintelligent or idiots. People differ and I have found that I have learned something valuable from every person that I have met.

I hate stereotyping any large group of people. I refuse to believe that all Republicans or "Tea Baggers" are evil and dangerous. I will agree that many are misguided or in my opinion they have formed misconceptions from watching far too many conservative news channels and internet sources.

If we are ever to overcome the problems our nation faces we have to realize the importance of compromise. Currently this is a lost art in politics in our nation and admittedly much of this is caused by the influence of the Tea Party on the Republicans.

It is my view that if we continue to support elected officials who fight like children in an unsupervised playground while being bought and owned by the rich and the big corporations who compose the 1%, we face a bleak future.

The controlling rich and powerful benefit when those under them fight over wedge issues and ignore the truth that the 1% buys and owns the politicians that we elect. The status quo obviously works to the benefit of the powerful and rich as their separation from the endangered middle class and the poor is growing year by year.

We have faced such problems in the past and overcame them. In order to do so we might just have to find common ground with those who disagree with us on many issues.

[Inkfreak]

29. Well said

[spin]

39. Thanks for your support and welcome to DU. (n/t)

[belcffub]

9. it's geographic...

The new club, which will shoot at the Niagara Gun Range in North Tonawanda, has three objectives, Qadir said. One is to provide gun training as a way of “protection for ourselves, our families and our homes.”

this is well into the suburbs... the east side is predominately African American now...

this isn't a racial thing... the North Tonawanda Gun club (not to be mistaken with the Niagara Gun Range in North Tonawanda) has several black members that I know of... I wanted to be a member there until I found out the cost... out of my price range...

there's a trap club about 45 minutes north of the city that a buddy of mine belongs to that had a couple of black members (older guys -but much of their membership is older)...

there are no shortages of African Americans in local clubs... but like I said in my OP... they are the exception rather then the rule... 100 member club has a couple of black guys...

[NewMoonTherian]

16. Do you object to women's self-defense classes also? n/t

[4th law of robotics]

42. A rights group that is focusing on one race. This is an outrage!

Please alert the NAACP immediately . . . .

/NRA doesn't have enough black members; RACIST!
//NRA seeks to reach out to blacks: RACIST!

[The Wielding Truth]

4. Their objective is to sell, sell, sell. Profit over evrything. Seems noble to want more to enjoy the

outdoors but they are not selling camping equipment. They are selling weapons.

[permatex]

5. NRA is selling weapons?

Last I heard, they don't hold an FFL. Could you provide the link to where they're selling weapons?
Thanks.

[The Wielding Truth]

13. Looky here.

http://www.occasionalplanet.org/2012/04/23/nra-official-pimp-for-the-multi-billion-dollar-gun-industry/

[DonP]

18. Who would have thought? Another poorly written and inaccurate anti gun screed ...

... by another Canadian (defence)?

I personally love articles about guns and gun laws by people that have never been to a gun show (but know all about them) or how easy it is to buy a gun (even though they've never touched one or seen a form 4473 and are inordinately proud of it for some reason) or go on and on about the culture of violence they foster, (even though we are at a 40 years low in violent crime).

But, if it's online in somebody's blog that no one ever heard of, then it must all be true.

We're all stunned at your Google Fu and cut and paste brilliance, but I'm afraid the position of "pointless cut and paste manager, with no worthwhile commentary" is already taken in the Gungeon, and I'm afraid you'll just have to wait your turn until the latest batch of whiners has been retired.

[friendly_iconoclast]

21. Classmates of Fred Colon, no doubt:

"Sergeant Colon had had a broad education. He’d been to the School of My Dad Always Said, the College of It Stands to Reason,
and was now a postgraduate student at the University of What Some Bloke In the Pub Told Me."

—?Terry Pratchett, Jingo

[Euromutt]

25. If that were the case, then how come....?

...How come the NRA is dead set against the UN Arms Trade Treaty, even though arms manufacturers actually support the treaty*? If the NRA were entirely in the pocket of the arms industry, why aren't they toeing the same line?

* - mainly because it would replace a bunch of different sets of national regulations with a single set of international ones, making it much easier to comply with.

[rl6214]

26. I may have missed it BUT

I didn't see a single firearm advertised for sale there, didn't see an address or phone number for a gun store listed there or see where it said they had an FFL. I could be wrong OR you could just be full of shit.

[The Wielding Truth]

33. You could be wrong. At least you are open to what is out there. Just like racism it may not be in

print but it is there. Why is it there? Why does the NRA sponsor bills that push more guns? Why do they send out lying messages? If not to use peoples fear to buy more of their sponsors products, then why? I am very weary of what I have seen them promote. If it is not for money and profit is it to overthrow our government? You tell me? I don't trust that it is to help non hunters in a social or economic way. I think it is a selfish act. If you prove me wrong I will join the NRA.

[Meiko]

38. It's a looby group

as it does what every other lobbying group does. I don't support the NRA but they do provide a service in some areas that I do support. If you don't like the lobbying laws then work to have them changed, good luck.Do you only disagree with the gun end of it, or the ethics end of it, or both

[permatex]

34. I too read the whole boring, inaccurate, bullshit article

and I never once saw one gun for sale by the NRA. You offered two answers, 1, you could be wrong, or 2, he/she is full of shit. I'm taking #2 for the win.

[DonP]

6. Who is selling weapons?

Wow! I was not aware that the NRA had a Class 1 FFL. Where is their requisite storefront operation located?

Or are you one of those "insightful types" that just believes the gun manufacturers, all of which are relatively small companies, somehow contribute millions of $ under the table to the NRA?

Hint: It helps make your point if you actually have some facts or examples in there somewhere or other, instead of a pointless rant.

[The Wielding Truth]

14. So all the robo-calling we get from the NRA is because the gun industry won't profit?

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/gun-sales-go-boom-thanks-nras-parano

[DonP]

17. Funny, I don't get any calls trying to sell me guns?

You said the NRA is trying to profit from selling more guns.

I'm assuming the calls you get are about where to buy guns from the NRA, right?

Maybe you're just such a special person that you get them. Or maybe the think you don't have enough guns yet to meet your minimum quota.

I don't get them because I was able to figure out the overly complex process of how to hit three buttons on my phone and opt out of any calls.

But, since the rate of violent crime is at a 40 year low, I guess all those guns don't matter one way or another.

[rl6214]

27. WOW, another link of yours

that shows absolutely nothing.

[permatex]

35. You must be a pretty special person

I've never ever received a call from the NRA trying to sell me a firearm. How do I get the special NRA priviledges that you do?

[The Wielding Truth]

44. I'm a gun owner that must make me special enough to get the calls. Really you missed my point.

They sell lies and fear and tell you that Obama will take away your guns, so many people I know have made it a point to stock up on ammo and guns to prepare for the future these calls conjure. If you think that it is fun to receive these calls you should sign up with the NRA or maybe live in a targeted area so that you can be special too.

[permatex]

45. So has the NRA tried to sell you guns?

Because if they did, you should call the BATFE and report them as they don't possess a class 1 FFL.
What does you owning guns have to do with your claim that the NRA sells guns?

[Hoyt]

22. NRA is pushing lethal weapons for gun manufacturers, gun stores, etc. And Obama is in their sights.

Figuratively I hope.

Board member such as Grover Norquist use NRA to intimidate candidates on issues unrelated to guns.

[rl6214]

28. NRA is pushing lethal weapons?

Surely you can point us towards one of their advertisements cuz I certainly haven't seen any.

[The Wielding Truth]

32. Gee, you are so in defense of the NRA. Why? Haven't you seen how their

meme of "Obama will strip us of our 2nd amendment rights" is promoting gun sales. Do you really need to see and ad.? I have actually had phone calls about it and was approached at a Teaparty rally by the NRA and pushed to buy guns to protect myself from Obama. I have seen friends of mine stocking their houses with guns for years and now doubling up because the NRA has scared them. If you want this to be a clear straight line it will take some investigation but I can tell you it is very probable.

[permatex]

36. Who here is defending the NRA?

Link please. We here are debunking your bullshit assertation that the NRA sells guns.

Just because someone says they are from the NRA doesn't make it so, chances are it was a member who was trying to get you to buy a firearm, doesn't mean the NRA sells guns.
What were you doing at a teaparty rally?
Once again, provide the link that NRA sells gun.
You can't because they don't, they don't have a Class 1 FFL.

[Maraya1969]

49. I am reading all of your posts and you are the one who does not understand simple logic.

Advertisements do not always come in the form of "Buy This!" Often they are subtle, especially if the person who is trying to get you to buy something wants to not be accused of selling it.

It seems very clear to me from reading this thread that the NRA is pushing guns and the buying of them.

If you can't see that you are falling for a delusion.

[rl6214]

37. Nope, not defending them at all, just want a little truth in posting

Having someone tell you that you should buy guns and actually selling them are two different things. If you want to say that they tell people they should buy guns then do it BUT don't lie and say the NRA sells guns.

[Maraya1969]

50. Does the NRA have advertisements for other companies selling guns in their magazines?

They are pro-guns. And yes, to holler about Obama taking away our second amendment rights is a fear tactic. And what do you think their motivation for that would be? I think it would be to stock up on guns now because they won't be available in the future.

I see several people on this thread who can't seem to follow simple advertising gigs.

Just like about a year ago I started to hear commercials about people talking about how awful Shingles was. That was all they said. It went on for months. Then of course the Shingles vaccine came out. So those first commercials were all set up to scare people about Shingles so when the Shingles vaccine came out they would run and get it. Like I said in my other post, advertising is done on multi-levels and is not always direct.

[rl6214]

51. Does the NRA have gun advertisers I their magazines?

I don't know I've never seen one of their magazines. Even if they do they still don't sell guns, they are a business that gets some of their Manley from advertisements. I think it is the Internet chat boards that drive the " stock up on guns now" sort of mentality.

[4th law of robotics]

43. Wait so let me get this right, a guns rights organization actually supports people owning guns?

This is an outrage!

They should be actively discouraging people from owning guns and working towards their own dismemberment.

[The Wielding Truth]

46. They aren't just supporting a gun owners right to own a gun. That is already guaranteed in the Bill

of Rights. They are working to promote the unreasonable fears that cause so many to own guns not as a hobby or for sport but out of fear. That is why I say they are wrong and pushing gun sales. I hope that you see why I am so repulsed. Using unethical means to promote sales is what I am charging. If it's not for profit then it's for political gain or what other reason to lie? Guns should be available for need or responsible sport not because of a false need dreamed up by the NRA.

[permatex]

47. The 2A is not about need or responsible sport

it's about the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Period, end of story.
What false dream are you talking about?
It's called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs, it's a restriction on the Govt., not the people.

[The Wielding Truth]

48. Please reread my post. You must be skimming. You will find the answer. Nice chatting.

I respect your point of view. Got to get some sleep....

[TheWraith]

7. Profit? You know Netflix alone makes more money than all civilian gun sales in the US, right?

The myth of gun manufacturers as some kind of towering pile of money dominating the world through influence buying is, well, false.

[The Wielding Truth]

15. Exxon makes more than Bain so Bain is completely altruistic?

Last edited Wed Jul 4, 2012, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

[PavePusher]

24. Move goal-posts much?

Put 'em down and rest.

[Marinedem]

8. Wow

Lot's of outright ignorance/race carding up in this thread.

I will say this.

The stereotype of blacks not being hunters/fishermen is mostly that. A stereotype.

Down here in the south it's not the case at all.

Plenty of black hunters in the woods every season.

They do seem to own a lot of guns though.......

Must be right wing neocons or some shit. Racists.

[spin]

11. The power of the KKK decreased dramatically when ...

minorities obtained firearms for self defense.

Bullies love helpless victims.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Have to love the Deacons for Defense

[spin]

20. You have got that right!!! (n/t)

[DonP]

23. And they go absolutely apeshit when you point out Dr. M.L. King's application for a CCW

I think it was last year on his birthday, or the year before, somebody brought him into a discussion as a "gun control supporter".

When someone pointed out that they didn't hink he was because Dr. King not only owned a handgun, but had applied for a CCW permit (which was of course refused by the white sheriff in his county). The gun control people went nuts. We had people ranting about how we were all racists and demanding we all be Tomb stoned immediately for trying to besmirch his name with evil guns.

Too damn bad when actual history doesn't jibe with their narrow view of history.

In fact I think we had a few threads about it until they got tired or stepped way over the line and got Tomb Stones themselves IIRC.

[spin]

41. Many liberals are also upset when they find that Eleanor Roosevelt owned and carried a handgun ...

and often had one with her.

First Lady Biography: Eleanor Roosevelt



***snip***

Domestic Inspection Trips: As part of this general role, she undertook frequent trips around the United States, to even the most remote regions, where she came to inspect various New Deal programs – usually without announcement so program directors could not suddenly disguise problems. Sometimes the issues she felt needed addressing, change or improvement hinged on small matters; other times, she detected a consensus among the recipients of the programs. Upon returning to Washington, she made either written or verbal reports to the President, his staff and department heads for the problems to be addressed. She drove her car, took the trains and flew by airplane to do this. Outside of New Deal policy, one result of the frequent pictures and newsreels of Eleanor Roosevelt getting in and out of airplanes was positive publicity for the fledgling commercial airlines industry. The First Lady often travelled alone, refusing to be trailed by Secret Service agents. The agency acquiesced only after she had demonstrated ability for self-protection with a gun they insisted she carry. She agreed to this, but never felt the need to use it.... emphasis added
http://www.firstladies.org/biographies/firstladies.aspx?biography=33

Photograph of Eleanor Shooting a Pistol

Eleanor Roosevelt shoots pistol at Chazy Lake, New York (1934).
http://history1900s.about.com/library/photos/blyfdr122.htm


Eleanor Roosevelt and Nancy Cook shoot pistols at Chazy Lake, New York (1934).
http://history1900s.about.com/library/photos/blyfdr124.htm

Black History Review

Eleanor Roosevelt
1884-1962

***snip***

Perhaps her biggest triumphs in the struggle for racial justice were in the military. Early in her time as First Lady, Eleanor challenged the Navy's restrictions on African Americans to mess hall duty. She was one of several advocates for the Tuskegee Airmen's training and service as active fighter pilots. Their success, along with that of several other all-black units in World War II proved once again to the military and the nation that blacks were just as capable as their white counterparts. And when in 1948 President Truman ended segregation in the military, making it the first major institution to integrate, his decision was due in part to Eleanor's leadership within the Democratic Party. She applied political pressure allying herself with Generals James H. Doolittle and Follett Bradley who argued that integration was best for the military.

After leaving the White House, Mrs. Roosevelt found herself more free than ever to promote equal rights for African Americans. During her final years she continued fighting as hard and fearlessly as ever. On at least one occassion, the Secret Service warned her not to keep a speaking engagement on civil disobedience. The Ku Klux Klan had put a price on her head and the Secret Service said they could not guarantee her safety. Undeterred, she traveled with another lady and her revolver. Such was her determination, independence, and courage right up to the year she died....emphasis added
http://www.blackhistoryreview.com/biography/ERoosevelt.php

Here's her permit ...


http://www.firearmstrainingbyelrod.com/Ladies_Only_Classes.html

[belcffub]

12. like I said in the OP

around here they seem to be the exception rather then the rule

a quick googlefu on racial trends in hunting

Race
While people of all races went hunting in 2006, the large majority was White. 5% of the nation’s White population, 1% of the Black population, and 6% of those identified as races other than Black or White went deer hunting in 2006. The race distribution of non-deer hunters was almost identical to that of deer hunters.

Ethnicity
Hispanics made up 13% of the U.S. population and 1% of them participated in deer hunting. While the percent of the Hispanic population participating in deer hunting was small, there were almost 300 thousand Hispanic deer hunters and another 126 thousand Hispanics hunted
for something other than deer (Table 9).

Non-deer hunting had a higher proportion of Hispanic hunters compared to deer hunting. In 2006, 5% of non-deer hunters were Hispanic compared to 3% of deer hunters.

I my 20ish years of hunting I have never run into any Blacks afield... I have Black friends that hunt but they're bird hunters... that not my thing... I know more blacks who just like to target shoot or shoot competitively... but the percentages are still very small... atleast around here...

[Euromutt]

31. Local paper, local reference, maybe

The article is from the Buffalo News, after all, and maybe the statements made in the article are applicable to the African-American community in and around Buffalo, while not necessarily being intended to be applied to blacks nationwide.

[Euromutt]

30. I've driven through the east side of Buffalo

It looked to me like, as Bruce Springsteen put it, "a part of town where when you hit a red light you don't stop" (and the only reason I did stop was that it was seven in the morning and there was hardly anyone about) and I for one wouldn't blame anyone living in that area wanting to be able to protect "family, property and oneself."

Not being black myself, I can't really speak to the veracity or falsity of the stereotype of blacks not being into hunting, fishing, shooting sports and firearms ownership, but I'd say that if there is some truth to it, it would apply to urban blacks, and more so than to urban whites because blacks, being proportionally more poor, have little time or means to get out of the city.

And it strikes that when the Buffalo News, being a local newspaper, speaks of "the African-American community," it is referring to the African-American community in and around Buffalo rather than to African-Americans in general.