Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumThe President of the United States of America has a message for you...
And in between, there have been an endless series of deadly shootings across the country, almost daily reports of victims, many of them children, in small towns and in big cities all across America, victims whose -- much of the time their only fault was being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
We cant tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change.
We will be told that the causes of such violence are complex, and that is true. No single law, no set of laws can eliminate evil from the world or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society, but that cant be an excuse for inaction. Surely we can do better than this.
If theres even one step we can take to save another child or another parent or another town from the grief thats visited Tucson and Aurora and Oak Creek and Newtown and communities from Columbine to Blacksburg before that, then surely we have an obligation to try.
In the coming weeks, Ill use whatever power this office holds to engage my fellow citizens, from law enforcement, to mental health professionals, to parents and educators, in an effort aimed at preventing more tragedies like this, because what choice do we have? We cant accept events like this as routine.
Are we really prepared to say that were powerless in the face of such carnage, that the politics are too hard?
Are we prepared to say that such violence visited on our children year after year after year is somehow the price of our freedom?
Full Transcript: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-speech-at-prayer-vigil-for-newtown-shooting-victims-full-transcript/2012/12/16/f764bf8a-47dd-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_story_1.html
Are you with the President or against the President in his desire for progressive gun control reform?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but let's see his ideas first.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...as he's called for in the past - will you support or oppose the efforts of President Obama?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)other than that let's see. Your say so doesn't make it progressive. One could argue that a AWB is regressive because it would be returning to something past.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...to end this horrible gun violence?
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)However, his ideas on how to achieve that may differ from your ideas.
I agree that folks are currently reading way too much into that speech that was not actually said.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)I'll take any new gun control measures that put a stop to the excesses of our diseased gun culture in this country.
Will you support or oppose the President if he puts forth (as expected) progressive gun control legislation?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)it's both constitutional, and makes some sort of goddamn sense. (1994 AWB as an example of something that did NOT make sense)
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Heller v. DC
So you would support an improved upon AWB?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Rather than open ended questions, why not start a thread on specifics that you would like to see Congress take up? Or perhaps one thread per item, so as to keep the chatter down.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...minus the restriction on CCW. What say you then?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Because the bullet tool/fixed mag restriction is silly.
I'm ok with the registration. Not ok with the fees. Do it like the NFA registry. A one time fee.
Otherwise ok on the rest of it.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You can limit size/production of new ones. My rifles are not designed to have fixed mags. So I would object to that. If you want to limit them to 10 or 20 rounds (designed for 30, but whatever), that's fine.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)California law views every Olympic pistol team as using "assault weapons" because of magazine location. I wouldn't call that "up to" anything.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)you and I probably don't agree on the unstated definition of "progressive gun control legislation".
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...isn't "progressive" by definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism_in_the_United_States
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)on what it is. Sorry, I like to read bills before I decide whether to support them or not. I'm still pissed off over lack of single-payer health care and the PATRIOT Act.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)I'm not seeing any of the stuff you are talking about.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Moreover, the President clearly states that they are going to take a hard look at this and come up with the specifics. You don't really think President Obama is going to put something up the NRA and their sycophants are going to love?
pipoman
(16,038 posts)It's been a long time since any gun legislation has been passed federally which was not backed by the NRA.
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)Did you nod off in Civics class that day?
What do you calculate the odds of getting any gun control through the current congress?
HINT: You're going to need a science geek calculator
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)So you're supporting the obstructionist efforts of the Republicans?
holdencaufield
(2,927 posts)... "Out of LEFT field". You didn't play outdoors a lot when you were a kid, did you?
Here's a comprehensive explanation on how laws are passed in the US
rDigital
(2,239 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Maybe he's talking about cars, knives, and baseball bats
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Azathoth
(4,608 posts)Will you be with the President, or will he become just another murder-enabling gun nut with blood on his hands?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Azathoth
(4,608 posts)In fact, you're so far out of step with him that you seem to feel the need to insert words into his mouth.
Now let's be straight up: I don't have any problem with what he said in his speech. But he didn't actually propose anything in his speech either. So, now that I've answered your question, answer mine. If the President does not propose vast new gun control measures, will you be with him, or will he just be another gun nut?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Azathoth
(4,608 posts)I thought you were at least going to try
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Thank you.
Azathoth
(4,608 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)arguments because they have received so much indoctrination from the NRA. You know very well the answer to your question: no, none of us are expecting a repeal of the 2nd Amendment, nor are we calling for one.
You, on the other hand, are scared that your precious "it's all about me" rights may be curtailed to something more reasonable than arming every fucking person on the planet.
It's time to let the grownups decide who gets to play with which toys, and where. Throw all the tantrums you want, but you are being sent to your room. And, too bad about AtypicalLiberal, but he's been given a time out.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Grownups don't make shrill and irrational rants, and use every imaginable logical fallacy pretending to be rational. That is the problem with the gun control movement.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)Black and white thinking is a sad habit to get into and a tough one to kick...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)Response to Clames (Reply #24)
Post removed
Clames
(2,038 posts)...I forgot subtlety doesn't work with you. Let me try again. Your small, shrinking tent is what is surrounded with barbed wire and requires an application fee. Seems it also requires a purity test that requires a perfect score by your measure. Little tents suck...
Filling out the 4473 is free BTW...
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...afraid to charge into that gap with your buddies in GD?
You really can't help yourself Clams
I'm going to put you on ignore now because you're really just enjoying this too much. Enjoy your stay at DU.
Clames
(2,038 posts)You really can't keep up but then you do spend most of your time whining in Meta... Must be your new hobby.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pipoman
(16,038 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...after about the 10th time he tried to launch a personal attack against me. I'm actually rather convinced 50% of the reason he's here is to attack me - so I've had it and he's now on ignore. That's the humane thing to do at this point. I think he came here to stalk iverglas and is now just stalking me...
Clames
(2,038 posts)You've been a lousy copycat of iverglas. The harder you have tried the worse you have gotten. Your ego is ten times what hers was and that's saying something. Civility is something you need to get reacquainted with. I'm sure it will be a long and arduous process too.
He's been a little tense lately..............................
S_B_Jackson
(906 posts)I can't say one way or the other. This nebulous "we must do something" impulse must always be curbed with a determination that it is important that the CORRECT something is done. Engaging in meaningless, ineffective mummery is worse than useless.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Callisto32
(2,997 posts)IOW: False dichotomy.
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)I am prepared to make some concessions on firearm ownership.
I don't know how far I am prepared to go.
Something needs to be done to make sure that we more fully vet people who are allowed to own firearms.
And firearms need to be secured so that people who have not been vetted can't just take them on a whim.
jeepnstein
(2,631 posts)As it stands now lots of people are running around in hysteria wanting to try the failed policies of the past. Let's look at what really makes these school shooters tick and then hit the problem head-on. There's a lot more to it than just taking away everyone's Constitutional Rights in some reactionary move. Since Obama is anything but a reactionary I'm going to just play it cool and see where he goes with it.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)Absent proposals for gun laws and other gun-control measures, and considering this is current and ongoing news, GD or Politics 2012 would be a better fit for this post.
Regards,
Krispos42, Group Host