I've gone through the gun forum and

[MichaelHarris]

I can't seem to find a thread about how a couple of brave educators shielded their students from gunfire. It's weird because I found three threads about a guy who didn't stop a shooting in Oregon. Seems he hid behind a pole. In those three threads it's as if some think he's a hero. I certainly have to be wrong, you guys posted about a guy hiding behind a pole in Oregon and how honorable he was but I just can't seem to find a thread about educators being human shields to protect children from gunfire. I missed those posts in the gun forum right?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. I for one read those threads in GD and LBN(?) and abhor duplicate threads

Most of us participate more outside of this forum than inside.

There is no diode on the front door in this group as some would pretend or wish.

[TreasonousBastard]

2. It's up to three threads now, but...

the guy still didn't get to shoot the shooter. Seems he was reasonably worried that he might miss and hit a bystander. Good sense, but hardly heroic.

That seems to be a problem in these slaughters-- the shooters seem to prefer lots of people around.

I have seen something about the teachers packing and maybe taking our latest fiend down, but I just can't see any teachers, much less the school psychologist, walking the halls packing. Or keeping a rifle by the desk.

Victoria Soto, fairly new at the teaching thing, also had the good sense and quick wit to hide her kids-- saving their lives. Alas, she paid with her own.

That's a hero. If there's a heaven, Vickie Soto is first in line.

[MichaelHarris]

3. I think it's important to note here

There was a teacher with multiple guns in her possession. They were used to shoot her in the face and then kill 26 people.

[TreasonousBastard]

4. I'm not sure how that is relevant...

There's some dispute about whether or not she was a teacher.

But, more importantly-- whether or not she was, she was not in school when her guns were stolen so it's really no different than someone sneaking in and stealing anyone else's guns: teacher, cop, unemployed drunk, or whatever, and opening the killing fields.

[MichaelHarris]

5. Ok let's say she's not a teacher

she had 5, 6 guns to protect herself, how did that work out for her?

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Not well. But, I'm not sure what your point is with this...

Although I have little interest in guns and less sympathy for owners, I don't see his mother as being the problem. Or the solution. She owned some guns. Lots of people own guns and cause no problems.

Her guns were stolen and she had little control over that. Her at least temporarily insane son killed her, but he might have obtained guns somewhere else. Or built a bomb. At any rate, she had guns but owning them was no help to her, or anyone else, in this situation.

Do we disagree somewhere?

[catnhatnh]

8. To quote another cranky old bastard....

"Are there no gun safes, no trigger locks???" If she had "little control" than ALL argument should end now. If control is simply not possible then civilian ownership is absurd and should be completely banned, period.

[TreasonousBastard]

9. Oh, that. I don't know how well...

the gun security stuff works with older household members, but I suspect not well at all when some household members are intent on getting at the guns.

Civilian bans are interesting to talk about, but just how that would be accomplished is another matter.

[friendly_iconoclast]

10. Article Five of the US Constitution awaits your attention.

Until you overturn the Second Amendment, yours is only a pipe dream.

[PavePusher]

12. I want my royalty check....

[friendly_iconoclast]

18. Would you settle for an acknowledgement as being the originator of that?

It was too good not to steal...

[PavePusher]

19. Spread far and wide, no charge, of course.

And I'm sure I got it from somewhere else, and did a Heinlein on it. (File off the serial numbers, etc...)

[rl6214]

15. Gun safes work and all of my guns are in a safe

Except for the one on my person. Trigger locks are a waste of time and are easily defeated.

[MH1]

20. "she had little control over that"?

is that true?

I haven't read all the latest so maybe I am missing important pieces here. But from what I understand, she was aware that she had a young adult in her household with severe mental issues, and she did not adequately prevent him from accessing the weapons that she felt she needed.

Since it was her house, her son, she knew he had issues, yet it was her choice to keep those weapons as she did, I am having difficulty with the idea that she had "little control" over him getting access to the weapons.

[PavePusher]

11. If someone, somewhere, had claimed that guns are a magic talisman....

that protect against all harm at all times even while someone is sleeping, you might have a talking point.

But no-one has, so you don't.

[MichaelHarris]

23. do you have a gun in the home?

Is it locked up when you sleep? You know where I'm going with this right? No? OK, I'll continue. Gun in the house, you're sleeping robber sneaks in the window, now he's got your lamp, your wallet, and your gun and you loved that lamp. Sneaky son any different than than a sneaky criminal? Ok, now your response, we all know what it is. "The son lived in the house!!" Ok, so he did and everyone in the surrounding counties knew he may be a threat. In that instance the gun should have been locked up. But wait, you guys don't do that because well you know the whole locked up, unloaded gun being worthless and all. So now we are back to a loaded gun in the drawer, you have one, she had one. Her's got her killed, doesn't matter who snuck in and took it. Sleeping or showering, a loaded gun, unsecured gun in the house got her killed. My guess is you shower with yours though.

Wanna see what sometimes happens with unsecure guns? I'm sure this family thought their gun was "put up"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/utah-boy-brings-gun-school-cites-newtown-fears-18007237#.UNDC13cgmuk

[gejohnston]

24. best of both worlds

http://www.gunvault.com/handgun-safes/biometric-gun-safes.html
half the price of some pistols.

[MichaelHarris]

25. sad

a gun owner with her income didn't have one. Of course you wouldn't want to make these mandatory for gun owners who have children in the house if the price was lower would you?

[gejohnston]

27. there are less expensive ones

I just picked that at random. I have no problem with making them mandatory, or just "very encouraged"
Both of my kids are grown, but I still need something that is redneck meth head proof.

[PavePusher]

28. Your contrived scenario won't work in my house.

And your assumptions about me are quite risable.

Better luck next time.

[rl6214]

14. Doesn't do much good when you are sleeping and your own son

Shoots you

[Jenoch]

26. Her guns should have been locked in a safe,

especially since she had a mentally unstable child. I am sure nobody on these threads would argue with that.

[PavePusher]

29. Maybe they were. I haven't seen any report on that.

But even a seemingly expensive safe is easy to get into if you know what you are doing and/or have tools time and ingenuity.

[rl6214]

13. I thought that was incorrect info and she was NOT a teacher there

She did home school her son

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. I thought she was in finance. A stock analyst or some such. I love gossip via the internet.

Don't you?

[DanTex]

16. She became a statistic: a gun in the home increases the risk of homicide victimization by 3X...

[spin]

7. Here's one example. ...

Admittedly they are rare but schools are gun free zones.

Pearl High School shooting

The Pearl High School shooting was a school shooting that took place on October 1, 1997 at Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. The gunman, 16-year-old Luke Woodham (born February 5, 1981), killed two students and injured seven others at his high school. Before the shooting at Pearl High School began, Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned his mother to death in his home.

The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School. However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir."[2]...emphasis added
The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.
Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing an orange jumpsuit and a trenchcoat,[1] he made no attempt to hide his rifle. When he entered the school, he fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving, intending to drive off campus and conduct another shooting at the nearby Pearl Junior High School. However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir."[2]

Notice that the assistant principal had to go to his truck to get his weapon.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Nobody moved those threads about the teachers from GD to the gungeon. vOv

[Atypical Liberal]

22. They were brave. Heroically. They also had no other options.

The principal and psychiatrist are reported to have tried to rush the gunman and physically take him down.

One of the teachers was found on top of the bodies of her students, evidently as she tried to shield them.

Another teacher had hidden her children in a closet, and was gunned down shielding them.

They were all brave. Heroically brave.

But they were also acting out of desperation. They had no other options. Hiding and suicidal last stands were all they were able to do.

I don't support arming teachers. I think this is going to end up with either an accident or a student taking the gun away from a teacher and using it. I don't think they get paid enough for the responsibility of teaching let alone the responsibility of being an armed guard.

But I think we need armed guards in schools.

I think it's pretty clear that these shooters go where they will have easy targets, and they always give up at the first sign of armed resistance.

Until we get a handle on the gun problem, we need someone on-site able to rapidly respond with more than hiding and suicidal body rushes.

[PavePusher]

30. The fact that they had no other options, that all other options were taken from them....

is morally indefensible.