= new reply since forum marked as read
Seems like the two directions you described characterize those who don't -- or aren't willing to -- listen.
I'm white, but I've heard many times from my friends who aren't white how annoying it is when whites -- even well meaning, progressive types -- try to dictate to minorities what racism is and is not, even when the experience of the minority individual contradicts the white person's opinion. This would be annoying/frustrating for obvious reasons.
My two cents 
do you want to keep the conversation small, just so every one is on the same page? Or do we get the larger talk going and deal with people being out of step?
but i humbly suggest you be blunt and direct, because trying to be gentle doesn't spare you anything where the guilty and the defensive are concerned.
i love Steve Biko's way of talking to or about us:
that bunch of do-gooders that goes under all sorts of names -liberals, leftists etc. These are the people who argue that they are not responsible for white racism and the country's "inhumanity to the black man".
(from "BLACK SOULS IN WHITE SKINS?" http://www.blackstate.com/sbiko1.html
from the book, I Write What I Like http://www.amazon.com/Write-What-Like-Selected-Writings/dp/0226048977 )
and that of many others who state, bluntly, "it is not my responsibility to teach you," but who will also say why, and give us some clues (i can understand if someone will not add that, but many of us are very appreciative if you will).
i am sorry it takes what it does. but i hope you will feel it is worth it. willingness to try is the only reason some of us have grown even slightly.
thank you for putting the question out there, and for caring to try, 1StrongBlackMan.
Not likely.
And soooo many people, regardless of their race/ethnic background do not understand the MEANING - the definition if you will of racism.
Example - I grew up in a black neighborhood and I got picked on by the neighborhood kids for being white.
vs.
Example - Driving While Black is Dangerous is some places. So is shopping. It's not 'personal'. It just is. I have to be cognizant because society finds racial profiling of blacks as no-good and always up to something shifty. This leads to higher incarceration rates for example.
See the difference?
Now ALL white liberals? No. My mom is one - my fiance is one . . . but my fiance will also tell you "I'm not white! I'm Calabrese". He's literally off the plane from the Calabrian region of Italy. They ARE different down there.
Those people! Neither one claims it is the 'same' thing. It's not. But they look at the world through their CHILDREN and future childrens' eyes if that makes sense . . .
A converse- my dad 'got' the discrimination towards the Irish in this country. Here's a black man with a dark complexion from the deep South. But you probe deeper - and you'd learn his formative years were very much shaped by three people - his Cherokee great gram, his black grandfather, and his Irish off the boat from Galway great grandfather.
But - he would also say - the difference is (as learned from his grand daddy with the accent 
) an Irish person can walk the street, not open their mouth and not be bothered. His great grandsons could not.
That's the difference in America. And it's something white liberals sometimes 'try' to understand by 'identifying' with. It's not inherently evil - because the difference between a white American person at DU and Freeperland? The membership here might not always 'get it' - but they try. They care. They WANT to give a damn.
I'd love to agree with that that, JAG. And while I certainly think that there lots of white DUers that do "want to give a damn," (and some of them post in this forum) I'm not at all sure that they represent the general population.
I just had the most mind-blowing exchange with a poster here that said flat out that "white people as a group did not benefit from slavery." This person also said that the only whites who'd mistreated blacks were the wealthy ("because they owned slaves." 
) When I asked this person "so were all the members of the KKK rich?" he had no answer but that sure as hell didn't stop him from being almost as combative as he was miserably stupid.
He also had absorbed from somewhere a litany of answers, no matter how implausible or idiotic, that in his mind, absolved all white people from every racist act that whites have perpetuated on people of color in this country. In his head, the Civil War was fought "because so many whites were abolitionists." What I took as common knowledge -- that if Lincoln could have avoided the Civil War (saved the Union) without having freed a single slave he would have -- is obviously anything but.
I see the whitewashing of MLK and Malcolm, including the "MLK wasn't JUST about black rights" (as if that would somehow lessen him if he was) and it was his work on the sanitation workers that was the reason he was killed, as if the white population that had branded this man a "communist," a "black devil" etc. etc. etc. would suddenly fall into his arms and under his spell the second he started talking about populism. Some of the stuff here is just folks not knowing better. That's okay. That can be worked with. But it's the WILLFULLY STUPID, those who are so busy trying to pretend/deny/minimize the role that white supremacy has played in this country since its inception, that make me fear that if self-described liberals are this threatened of the truth and myopic, then we are well and truly screwed as a country.
Of course, doing it in person and doing it over the innernettes are two different issues
including on the "big forums" here.
many will not hear, but i honestly believe that every attempt increases the consciousness of many. and some will even hear.
i am sorry it gets so aggravating! and thank you!!
with you!!
