Question HRC's civil rights record:OK Question Sanders' civil rights record: Flamebait-shut it down!

[Empowerer]

A few days ago, I posted an OP asking for examples of what Sanders did since 1968 to fight for civil rights. My OP was alerted and hidden and I was suspended pending review of my account.

Apparently, concerns about such questions only apply to questions about Sanders' record:

ALERT

What was Hillary doing when Bernie was arrested while demonstrating for desegregated public schools
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511213612

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

Flamebait. OPs asking what Bernie has done for civil rights have been hidden as disruptive flamebait. If that's the standard, this certainly qualifies

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:52 PM, and voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not hide-worthy.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ridiculous alert.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: LOL pretty lame for flamebait. I say let them get their ass handed to them.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Totally weird attempt to hide a nothing post. I usually see at least something that caused an alert. This post is somewhat sarcastic given the news yesterday but contains nothing at all in it that is abusive. From the alert explanation it is them that probably should be censored
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously? It is not "against the rules" to ask about a candidate's experience.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

[riversedge]

1. It si so sicking to see what is happening here on DU.

[BlueMTexpat]

2. Very definitely a double standard and

lack of balance towards anyone who does not bow down before their candidate.

Cyberbullies run rampant on DU these days.

[Empowerer]

5. These are my OPs that were alerted and hidden:

1. Can you name anything Bernie has done to "fight for" blacks since he moved to Vermont?

in 1968 that required him to invest any serious political capital, take a political risk or go against the popular view of his virtually all-white base?

And I don't mean an issue that peripherally or derivatively may have helped blacks or was supported by a whole bunch of white folks and some black folk, too. I'm looking for examples of something he did that was truly geared toward the best interest of blacks and that blacks were fighting for where Bernie went out of his way to join them in the fight even though it did not primarily benefit a significant number of white people.

After that was hidden, I tried again, with as polite an OP as I could muster:

2. Can you help us better understand what Sanders has done to fight for civil rights since 1968?

We have often heard that Sen. Sanders has "fought for civil rights since he marched with Dr. King." I am interested in learning more about his record in this area, so I am asking those who know to share with us more details about this.

Specifically, please share with us examples of actions that Sanders has taken to protect or uphold civil rights that required him to invest any serious political capital, take a political risk or go against the popular view of his constituents or his base?

This should not include issues that peripherally or derivatively may have helped minorities or was supported by large groups that included minorities. I am seeking examples of instances in which Sanders went out of his way to fight for an issue or cause or measure that primarily benefitted minorities.

And while we all greatly respect and are grateful for all that Bernie has done to advance policies that have benefited people of all races throughout his career, please don't list his voting record or his vote on any particular piece of legislation since voting is a regular part of a Senator's job and is not the same as "fighting" for something. (After all, Senator Sanders has voted yes on numerous bills renaming post offices, but it would be strange to claim that he's been fighting for post offices).

Thank you very much for your cooperation.

[BlueMTexpat]

9. Having these hidden is ridiculous.

But that's JMO. I did participate in a jury today that got an anti-Lewis post deservedly hidden. So apparently there are a few with standards left among us.

On Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:27 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And that has fuckall to do with Lewis' stupid ass comments.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1213297

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Calling John Lewis a "stupid ass" and having his head kicked by police as a reason for having his judgement and ability to think is beyond disgusting for this board. John Lewis is a treasure, and just because you may disagree with his choice of candidate, does not give you the right to demean this man.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 01:36 PM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: violates minimal standards of decorum for DU but okay at a Trump rally.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Cops constantly kick people in the head so I don't understand why someone calls people that call them out on that fact liars. They hate us and beat us.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This crosses whatever line DU has left anymore.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I think Lewis is in the wrong too but slamming him for injuries sustained in fighting for civil rights is beyond the pale. This crap is exactly whey GD is "the sewer". Stop it.

I was Juror #5. Now I am outed.

[guillaumeb]

10. I am a Sanders supporter.

But I thought your posts were well worded and provocatively worded. The type of question that people should take as a reason to do some research.

The only reservation I have is the point about "...his virtually all-white base?". Given the demographics of his state, his statewide base is virtually all white, but this does not mean that his policies are directed specifically to or benefit only that base.

[Empowerer]

19. thanks for your feedback

I noted the base because, as would be expected, as a Senator, he takes actions that benefit his base. But there are times when, in order to do the right thing, a Senator may need to buck his base. In this instance, the base is all-white - not a criticism, just a fact. So when people say he's fighting for civil rights for blacks, it does make a difference whether he's doing something for the purpose of helping blacks or whether he's doing something to benefit whites - i.e., his constituency - or to benefit African Americans.

I ask this because it seems that much of what we're being told that his policies to to help blacks are really derivative - they're designed to advance the interests of whites and happen to also benefit blacks. I am looking for instances where he actually took a risky to help blacks - that's the difference between supporting civil rights and fighting for civil rights.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Question: Did anyone venture an answer before the OPs were hidden? If not, ...

I'd say you got the/an answer.

[Empowerer]

23. A few tried, but mostly it was attacks on Hillary and her supporters

The responses were mostly "he voted against the war" "he voted against welfare reform;" etc. Even though I said votes don't count because that was his job.

I think the alert was pulled like a fire alarm because they knew no one had a good answer, they looked ridiculous and people were laughung at them so they needed to shut it down.

[JustAnotherGen]

3. You have done nothing

Its like the old Stevie Wonder song.

I've got two groups of people trying to shove sunshine up my ass when at the end of the day - only one white person helped in a way that mattered two bring the Civil Rights movements efforts to a point of receiving justice - LBJ.

Unless Sanders or Clinton can prove it was actually THEM signing that Act - its a lot of bullshit!

Good on you for asking the question!

[senz]

13. Glad to see another LBJ fan here.

Most of my contemporaries hated him for the Viet Nam war but his domestic policies were all heart, all caring, especially impressive from a southern white man. I'm sure you know that neither Bernie nor Hillary could have signed on to the Civil Rights Act at that time.

But I do see huge differences between Bernie and Hillary on the subject of everyone who has been treated as "less than" in our society. As a young man, Bernie was active in the Civil Rights struggle and in public office in Vermont and D.C., his record shows steady support for issues affecting PoC. There is nothing like that in Hillary's record. Nothing. She doesn't have the same heart for people that Bernie does. Plus, she played the race card against Obama in 2008. Bernie wouldn't even be capable of doing that.

"Shove sunshine up my ass"

[JustAnotherGen]

14. I'm no LBJ fan

I just look at the historical record.

Unless Sanders or Clinton can teleport back in time - they don't get to take credit -

Or be compared to John Lewis.

I do not relate to Bernie Sanders at all.

I also don't see how he has had any impact on my life as a black woman - my parents get to take credit for my success in life. Not him.

He's done nothing for me.

[senz]

15. I liked LBJ because he cared about the poor and PoC.

Bernie didn't thrust himself into the public eye until just last year. He's not an egotist, not a "star," not a celebrity. But in his 30+ years as a legislator, he has a perfect record of supporting bills that protect PofC and poor people of any color. He has spoken out repeatedly in the halls of Congress for the rights of those whom society overlooks.

So he may not stand out for you, but he is solid.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. I don't see the "solid"

After 8 years of Obama - that's what I need to see. Tenacity.

The reality is - his tenacity came from an adversity that Sanders simply can't say -I experienced that. It came from the black American experience.

That will never be seen in my lifetime again - unless Booker or Edwards launches a campaign.

[Empowerer]

20. There's a difference between "supporting" and "fighting for" civil rights

I like Bernie, but I don't see any instances in his career in which he's gone out of his way to fight for civil rights. Yes, he's voted right, but his votes were consistent with his constituency's positions and did not require him to fight. It was the right thing to do but it was also the easy thing to do. And I don't have a problem with that. What I DO have a pproblem with is his presenting himself as some kind of civil rights crusader whose record shouldn't be questioned. And many of his supporters are even worse. One today kept telling me he was a "civil rights hero," which is just ignorant.

[wildeyed]

24. This is the crux for me.

He was on the right side of the fight, but he is not a civil rights hero, nor does he have a civil rights legacy. They are trying to equate Sander's record with that of activists who put their bodies on the line and dedicated their lives to the cause.

Curious, which politicians, over the years, have spent serious political capital on this battle? LBJ did when he signed Voting Rights. But I am a bit fuzzy on who else did what. There is so much smoke and mirrors with politicians, it is hard to understand what, exactly, is going on behind the scenes sometimes.

[gollygee]

25. Someone called him that?

I hope it wasn't anyone who said anything negative at all about John Lewis because that would be vomit-worthy.

[Empowerer]

27. Yup

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1214537

[1StrongBlackMan]

22. Were LBJ's domestic policies, with respect to Black people ...

"all heart, all caring, especially impressive from a southern white man"? Or, were they a prophylactic measure to prevent a civil war?

Remember ... during LBJ's Presidency, there was rising Black militancy, as Dr. King's peaceful approach was gaining attention; but, little movement. Marry that with the fact that in 1968, there were nearly 2.5 million Black veterans (4 million, if you include "Hispanic" and "Native American veterans) being denied the rights at home that they were trained to fight, and died for, abroad.

[wildeyed]

26. Well he was very liberal on poverty issues,

at least white poverty. I am clearly not a scholar, but my sense with Civil Rights is that he wanted to do it, but maybe because of his ego and his recklessness more than compassion. He said, if I recall, and I paraphrase, This will be the crowning achievement of my political career. No politician has ever done something this huge before. And he also understood how the electoral math worked. He wanted the black votes the deal would bring, but he know he was trading a bunch of white votes to get that.

LBJ was a bare knuckle, badass politicker. Love him or hate him, he knew how to get a deal done. I think he was enamored of the challenge of doing the deal, of bending so many other politicians to his will, as much as anything. And it was in line with his overall policies too. He did care about the poor. But remember it was a War on Poverty. LBJ was a fighter, for sure.....

I have been thinking about him and FDR recently, how they both passed huge, earth shaking, liberal policies, but were also incredibly ego driven and hawkish on foreign policy. FDR gets a pass because WW2 was the right side of history. But he wanted war very much earlier than most. Interesting to contrast with the anti-war view of many modern progressives.

[gollygee]

4. Well, you've been alerted on

That was quick.

[Empowerer]

6. It doesn't take long, does it?

[gollygee]

7. They're obviously watching this group and alerting on whatever they can

As soon as they can. It was within a very few minutes.

[gollygee]

11. Jury results!

On Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

(I was #1 and intended to type "alerted" rather than "alerted.&quot

Question HRC's civil rights record:OK Question Sanders' civil rights record: Flamebait-shut it down!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118739691

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Posting an OP to complain that an alert he sent didn't result in a hide. This flame war stuff and the resulting whining is getting out of hand.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:13 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I suggest the alerted stay out of the African American group.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meta, but it's in a protected group, so I vote to leave it. Group host can delete if they choose
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is meta stuff. Plus, bullshit.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This OP is in a protected group and the group hosts should adjudicate it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: flamebait

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Unfucking believable

Flame war stuff?

You've got to be kidding me.

[Lisa D]

8. The jury system is out of control

And now being used as a bullying tactic.

[randys1]

12. Has been for months. Almost every single hide I have had has been when I call

out racism on DU.

DU is home to a majority of white privileged people who simply wont tolerate honest in your face discussion of race.

[mcar]

18. I hate that this is happening here

It is so wrong.