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JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:26 AM Feb 2015

The Patriots Have Incredible Ball Security

For whatever reason, the Patriots do have exceptional ball security, especially for an outdoors team. And I mean exceptional.

I was intrigued by a link sent to me via Twitter at Sharp Football Analysis, a handicapping site. The article demonstrated that NE's ball security was an outlier to the tune of several standard deviations. The charts are convincing, and the implication is that NE benefitted from under-inflated balls is unmistakable. But I wasn't sure how much stock to put in the numbers for a couple reasons. One is that they were so extraordinary they seemed unlikely to be true. And second, the analysis used plays per fumble as its basis rather than fumbles per play. For low-rate events, like fumbles, outlier cases can appear exaggerated depending on which way you look at them.

I started by verifying the numbers. They may vary slightly because I'm including playoff games, but overall the numbers look correct. The article looked at both fumbles lost and at total fumbles. I'd submit that if we're talking about ball security, fumbles lost is just total fumbles + noise, so let's just focus on total fumbles. Here are the offensive plays per fumble for each team in each season since 2010:

<snip>

NE ranks third over that period. Very good, but nothing out of the ordinary. You'd expect teams with good QBs and good offenses to have fewer strip-sacks. But the article linked above makes a good point: Many teams that play indoors are concentrated at the top of the list. Let's see how the table looks if we exclude dome teams.



http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/general/224-the-patriots-have-great-ball-security

Something I found interesting, the timing is bad but I haven't visited the site at all following the conference championships but I should have realized they'd have the best deflate-gate analysis there is.

This was a follow-up to the above article -- it is long so I'll snip the middle parts. It is also much better with more details & analysis, I recommend reading top to bottom.

A Last Look at NE's Fumbles

<snip>

READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE NE IS INNOCENT

NE is not an outlier in any sense. They are actually #2 on the list after ATL for the period since 2006. There are other teams with nearly as impressive over-performance as NE for several-year stretches, such as ATL, IND, and DET. Should we also be investigating ATL for ball tampering?

You can see that the model used may not completely account for QB "eliteness." Brady's best years came since 2007, and you can see the Manning-led Colts had impressive fumble over-performance for a certain period. Drew Brees' Saints seem to have a similar pattern.

NE actually had 3 more fumbles than we'd expect in 2013, breaking the string of consecutive seasons with fewer than expected fumbles.

<snip>

READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO BELIEVE THERE'S SOMETHING FISHY GOING ON

NE is #2 since '06, but is #1 since '07, #1 since '08, #1 since '09...you get the picture. The string of consecutive seasons of over-performance is unmistakable. One year where they might be nipped by randomness (and just barely) does not mean they don't have an advantage.

Besides, the standard here isn't that unless NE is an extreme outlier they are in the clear. It's misleading to imply otherwise. The standard should be: which explanation is the data most consistent with? The tables above show that the data is exactly what we'd expect if a team had an advantage but extremely unusual and unlikely to be observed by chance alone.

Regarding ATL, yes, they are also very good with ball security. Should they be investigated too? Possibly, but I wouldn't start an investigation or make an accusation on statistics alone. The bottom line is that nothing here rules out the possibility other teams also tamper with their footballs.

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/analysis/team-analysis/227-a-look-at-ne-s-fumbles

FWIW -- the first Deflate gate post

Deflate-Gate and PV/T=k

This Deflate-Gate controversy had me thinking about 9th grade chemistry and wondering about the effect of temperature on the balls. I saw that CAR kicker Graham Gano recently tweeted that he is often frustrated by how the balls naturally lose their air pressure when going from an indoor setting, where the inflation pressure is set and checked, to a cold outdoor setting. Could NE's balls have lost their pressure due to the temperature?

We'll need to dust off the Combined Gas Law to figure this one out. That's the physical law that says gas temperature, pressure, and volume are all related. Pressure and temperature are directly proportional--As temperature goes up, pressure goes up proportionally and vice versa. Pressure and volume are inversely proportional--as volume expands, pressure decreases and vice versa. And so it follows that volume and temperature must also be directly proportional. Put mathematically, we can say that for a given mass of air, the ratio of product of the pressure and volume and the temperature must remain constant.

PV/T = k (where k is a fixed constant)

If we change any one of those variables, we can solve for the others. Because k=k, we can write:

P1*V1/T1 = P2*V2/T2

<snip>

ssuming V1=V2 (the ball does not significantly grow between 10 and 13 psi) and that no deflation occurred, the mass of air remained the same and we can write

(12.5+14.7) * V1 / 294.3 = P2 * V2 / 283.7

Since V1=V2, they cancel out. Solving for P2, we get 26.2 absolute psi, which is 11.5 gauge psi. That only explains a half of the discrepancy, and there's still 1.0 psi left to account for. But the volume of the ball does change when inflating, which is the whole point of deflating it to make it easier to hold, throw, and catch. But it only does so slightly in that range of pressure, probably by a few percent. And a shrinking ball would have the effect of mitigating the loss of pressure.

Any warming that may have occurred during halftime when the balls were re-examined would reduce the effect of temperature, and leave more of the discrepancy unaccounted for. Certainly, a full half of play might deflate the balls, but 11 of the 12 were under-pressurized, so I doubt that would explain it. Some balls would be affected much more than others depending on what kind of abuse they get.

http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/weather/222-deflate-gate-and-pv-t-k

13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Patriots Have Incredible Ball Security (Original Post) JonLP24 Feb 2015 OP
Belichick doesn't tolerate fumbles. When his runners fumble, they sit. Ask Ridley. NRaleighLiberal Feb 2015 #1
Neither does most of the NFL JonLP24 Feb 2015 #3
Why post this now when it's a week old? RiffRandell Feb 2015 #2
I posted my opinion as soon as it happened JonLP24 Feb 2015 #4
No worries. RiffRandell Feb 2015 #7
It wasn't my intention to pour salt into that JonLP24 Feb 2015 #13
one of the best games I've watched - edge of the seat stuff right up to the end. NRaleighLiberal Feb 2015 #5
Same here! RiffRandell Feb 2015 #8
did you see this article? NRaleighLiberal Feb 2015 #6
While the statistical analysis is one issue, the ball checking in the Colts game is a little suspect hughee99 Feb 2015 #9
I agree JonLP24 Feb 2015 #11
I can't believe you posted that old canard. bluedigger Feb 2015 #10
Not one single link, links to Brian Burke's analysis JonLP24 Feb 2015 #12

NRaleighLiberal

(60,015 posts)
1. Belichick doesn't tolerate fumbles. When his runners fumble, they sit. Ask Ridley.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:30 AM
Feb 2015

They also don't run nearly as much as pass. It is how the offense is designed.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
3. Neither does most of the NFL
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:50 AM
Feb 2015

Tatum Bell's fumbles cost him his starting job & eventually his career. Same thing with Beanie Wells in Arizona. Same story with Ahmad Green but Green Bay tolerated it a little longer. http://www.huskermax.com/games/1996/arizonastate96.html (Box score doesn't say much but Green accounts for most of those 6 fumbles)

That doesn't really explain it. Also receivers & quarterbacks fumble too. As an Arizona fan in 2008, I could tell if a game was going to be a blowout if Anquan Boldin fumbled a first quarter screen pass. He did it against Philadelphia, Minnesota, & New England that year. Also one of the crushing blows Arizona's offense had was a Michael Floyd at the Atlanta 32 after a first down catch.

Going back to 2007, Atlanta was a rush heavy offense but they're in indoors team. They could have been tampering with balls themselves considering they're recently being investigated for piping in crowd noise.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
2. Why post this now when it's a week old?
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:49 AM
Feb 2015

Start posting articles about the Seahawks MAKING THE WORST PLAY CALLED BY THEIR COACH.

Which, according to the analysts kissing their asses all week, are now saying it will go down as one of the worst calls in history.

Well, congrats to both teams....it was a great game. Sad to see some bad sportsmanship at the end, but I guess when you thought you had the game in the bag and all the bad rap the Pats get, your ego might get deflated.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
4. I posted my opinion as soon as it happened
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:52 AM
Feb 2015

I kick myself for not finding it sooner since I find the analysis to be pretty impressive & doesn't quite come to a conclusion but it is notable considering the recent deflating balls & tighter grip thing.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
13. It wasn't my intention to pour salt into that
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:53 AM
Feb 2015

even though I was well aware how it would look. I think the 2nd article--the first is just a basic layout of the numbers. The 2nd was in response to the bias & unscientific analysis of the layout of the first numbers. I think both sides of Deflate-Gate issue can appreciate the methods to separate the bias and hardly conclusive view of the first numbers.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,015 posts)
5. one of the best games I've watched - edge of the seat stuff right up to the end.
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:52 AM
Feb 2015

Great skill on both sides of the field. Loved every second of it - even the ones that made me cringe (Brady's INTs, and yet another miracle catch!)

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
8. Same here!
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:07 AM
Feb 2015

Except for loving the ones that made you cringe.

I knew it would be tough but damn, what a finish!

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
9. While the statistical analysis is one issue, the ball checking in the Colts game is a little suspect
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:08 AM
Feb 2015

It's being reported as a 2 PSI drop, but as I understand it, it was done on a "pass/fail" basis according to the Refs themselves. They didn't write down any specific deflation rates, and I hadn't seen any ref in that game actually say they were 2 PSI down, just that they were under-inflated. If the Pats submitted their balls at the low end of the acceptable rate, then they'd be under-inflated until they reached the temp they were originally submitted at.

Beyond that, a significant number of NFL games must be played with balls below the minimum inflation anyway in November, December and January. Using the Ideal Gas Law you stated above, when gametime temperature gets below around 30 degrees, even the balls submitted at the TOP end of the inflation rate will have deflated beyond the bottom rate and be under-inflated unless they have someone either heating the balls (which is illegal) or adding air to the balls during the game (which I don't think is allowed either). Do fumble rates drop significantly in cold weather where all balls are under-inflated?

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
11. I agree
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:31 AM
Feb 2015

the Gas Law was posted during when the initial reporting came out. I didn't post this to argue one way or the other though I had no idea about fumble thing (I was aware of kinda the reverse of that, below average pass defense -- high interception rate)

(From the same Brian Burke as the articles in the OP)



Week 15 N.F.L. Game Probabilities: Patriots Are True Outliers


Quick quiz: Rank the following teams in terms of defensive yards per pass attempt allowed, a proven key predictor of wins: the 2-11 Jaguars, the 4-9 Eagles, the 4-9 Titans, the 3-10 Raiders and the 10-3 Patriots. Answers to follow.

<snip>

The Patriots are true outliers. Over all, their offense ranks as the most efficient in the league, but their defense ranks 31st, accounting for opponent strength. You’d think they might merely be a slightly better than average team, but they’re far from that. They are on a seven-game winning streak, and their three losses have been by 2, 1 and 1 points. Their net point differential is an N.F.L.-best 198, about 50 percent better than the second-ranking team, which just happens to be the 49ers, whom they face this Sunday night.

Throughout the vast majority of the N.F.L., turnovers are highly random. In other words, team turnover rates are not very consistent from week to week or even from season to season. Using past turnover stats to predict future outcomes is usually folly. But teams like the Patriots are different. Their passing offense is so effective that it forces opponents to take big risks to keep pace, and this results in interceptions.

The Patriots’ defensive interception rate is among the best in the league at 3.1 percent. That translates into a lot of interceptions because opponents need to pass often when trying to match a 36-point-per-game scoring average.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/13/week-15-n-f-l-game-probabilities-patriots-are-true-outliers/?_r=0

That wasn't the article I was looking for, it became such a consistent theme that he was pretty much saying disregard the Patriots win probability late into the 2013 season.

I just found the overall analysis in the statistics interesting, weighing what kind of outlier they are in such but I found the second look article doesn't come to a definitive conclusion one way or the other. Reading so much speculation in the best 2 weeks, I thought this was pretty impressive, the gas law was posted was when this was new news. I don't see him go back & update his stuff too much when he's moved on to other analysis.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
12. Not one single link, links to Brian Burke's analysis
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 01:49 AM
Feb 2015

I consider him on par with a lot of the 538 contributors. His own site has contributors so I may be mistaken in attributing it to Brian Burke, he usually is the one tackling the big story analysis. ESPN & others made him famous after he claimed Belichick made the right decision to go for it on 4th down against Indianapolis based on probability (though he used overall league percentages, downplaying Peyton Manning but it strengthens the case he made--not weaken it). It didn't work was often the rebuttal, he covers that in "outcome bias".

He is educated in advanced mathematics & takes a lot of bias & conventional wisdom out of it.

Take the article I highly recommend -- hardly the "nearly impossible" claim 538 critiques.

The opening paragraph

The recent debunking and de-debunking of the Patriots' fumble numbers has taken a decidedly unscientific turn. The posts I've read seem to be "advocacy" research, not unlike research sponsored by Nabisco claiming that Oreos are good for you. Each side's biases and contortions aren't very hard to detect. I think that the possibility that the fumble rates may be connected to the current allegations warrants some fair-minded investigation. Some of the debunking has merit, but some of it does not. Whether NE appears to be a 4-sigma outlier or an 8-sigma outlier is beside the point. Without knowing who to trust, I thought I'd go a step further with my own look into the numbers.

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