Tradition need not be hidebound, nor honored or shackled. But recognized for what it is.

[pinto]

We all have our connections to some tradition. Whatever that is. Whether it's bowling and beer on a Wednesday, the iconic Friday night movie, Saturday night franks and beans or Sunday morning church. Or all of the above.

And donuts. There's always donuts.

Tradition means something. For better or worse, it's part and parcel of our lives. We should value that, imo. It means something. There is no future without a past. And no present without either.

[Glorfindel]

1. You're right...being with family at special times is a tradition I value

Though I have no closer relatives than a single sister left, still, the privilege of celebrating Thanksgiving, Christmas, and other special occasions with nieces, nephews, and cousins is precious to me. I hope it always can be. If a tradition becomes burdensome, find a better way to accomplish the same goal. It's ALWAYS worth it!

[LostOne4Ever]

2. If you are following tradition because you genuinely want too

Then power to you and your tradition.

However, when that tradition is forced or coerced, or becomes a barrier to innovation then it becomes a pestilence to society and should be opposed and done away with extreme prejudice.

Traditions that can not survive without the involvement of the unwilling deserve to be swept into the dust bin of history.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Is an unexamined life worth living?

Last edited Sun May 25, 2014, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

You seem to be recommending going through the motions without any consideration for what you are doing why you are doing it or what it means. That to me is what I have called thoughtlessness. Sadly it encompasses the vast majority of butts on pews every Sunday.

[LostOne4Ever]

4. I would say I am recommending doing the exact opposite of that

Going to church everyday just because it is what you have always done is not doing something because you "genuinely want to" but rather out of a sense of duty. It is something you do to please others, not oneself. Whether that is some god, or your family, it is still a form of coercion is it not?

But if you are going because you derive pleasure from the social interactions, or the songs, or whatever, then why not? If you genuinely enjoy spending time with family and giving gifts during Christmas, then why not enjoy it.

Some people actually enjoy that sort of stuff. I enjoy sleeping in, and living like a hermit so that I do not have to deal with people. To each their own.

[ZombieHorde]

9. "Is an unexamined life worth living?"

No, but an examined life isn't worth living either. Nor is dying worth it. There is no such animal as worth, except perhaps as an emotional response to perceived stimuli.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. I'm not sure I agree. We have consciousness, not using it to

try and live a good life just seems wrong to me. It is all we have, this life of ours, these experiences. They have some value to each of us while we are here.

[cbayer]

6. Can you give me an example of how a tradition becomes a pestilence

to society and should be opposed?

While I understand your argument about force and coercion and agree that that can clearly be problematic, how does one tease out what is harmful and what is not? And how does one weight the deeply rooted significance of a particular tradition against it's possible drawbacks?

[LostOne4Ever]

7. Opposition to gay marriage in the name of traditional marriage comes to mind as an example.

And its the use of force and coercion that can be used to tell when it is harmful and what is not. Forcing people to participate in something that they do not want to do, solely because it is tradition, will always harm at least one party.

Thus...where we should draw the line.

If the tradition is truly benign, and worthy of upholding, it can survive and thrive on its own and with the participation of willing participants. If not, then good riddance.

[cbayer]

8. That's a good example.

Anytime your traditions or beliefs tread on the rights of others there is clearly a problem.

I guess I was thinking too narrowly and more about traditions/rituals that might be confined to the community that practices them.

The question of coercion is also a good one. Clearly an example would be women that are forced to stay in marriages or communities where they don't want to be. And then there is the issue of children. At what point should they have the right to opt out.

It becomes complex when it comes to issues like certain medical practices (JW) or circumcision. The lines are not quite so clear in those scenarios.

[cbayer]

5. Isn't that the truth.

Everyone's traditions are personal. For those that choose not to participate in some traditions and those that do choose to participate, there is no need for others to intrude or be critical. Just because I love a certain kind of ritual does not mean that you should.

That can be irritating, or worse, when you have someone near to you that you really want to share the tradition with, but it's their right to not participate. OTOH, sometimes it makes a lot of sense to go along and one may find meaning in a tradition that they hadn't formerly recognized.

[ZombieHorde]

10. Tradition is a weird thing, in my opinion.

It seems to me to be repetitive behavior that we add an emotional attachment to. For example, most of us eat in the US are fortunate enough to eat everyday, but most people only seem apply the label "tradition" to some of those meals. The tradition doesn't seem to be the behavior, but rather the "emotional extra." Behavior is (probably) real, but tradition isn't actually real in the way we generally think about it.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. This is an interesting idea.

So, not to be contrarian, just sitting here, reflecting...

I don't think I have any. There are some 'family' things we do like get together for boxing day, or easter, etc, but it is not of my volition. I would not generally choose to observe any of those events.

Looking back, I don't think "There is no future without a past." is true in the sense that you have to maintain such traditions, rather than simply being aware of their existence/history.

Even the 'annual fishing trip' thing isn't my idea. If I were in charge of it, I'd probably drop it.

[pinto]

14. I think being aware of a tradition does reflect on the future. Whether or not it is maintained.

If one moves away from a set tradition, at one time observed, that redefines the future. Kind of vague but I think you get my drift.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. It does, but I like to do new things.

I look at planning out the near and distant future not in terms of 'what are we doing again', but rather 'what have we never done.'

My wife is a little more of a traditionalist in this sense.

[pinto]

18. I like refashioning some traditions that once held greater import in my life. Religiously -

I very rarely go to a Catholic mass anymore. Save for specific events. Never take communion when I do go.

Yet still go to the mission here - after hours as it were. I light a votive candle (Catholic churches have little side rooms with a tiered rack of those small candles in glass holders). And then sit in the main church for a while. I like the silence and the scene. It's a great time to just take a step out of things. That part of my religious tradition remains.

[cbayer]

16. I could be wrong, but I would propose that the ideas you express

here may change substantially as your child grows up.

Developing traditions with your kids is something very different, but, at least for me, there was also an urge to continue traditions that I experienced as a child.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. There are no plans to, but I don't possess a crystal ball.

It's a possibility, I suppose.


One family tradition was, birthdays warranted a family visit to Benihana. We don't even do that anymore. If you can't entice me with food...

[pinto]

19. I'm glad I experienced a religious tradition as a child. Though I've moved away from much of it,

it still resonates for me in some ways. I loved the whole ceremony of the mass - walking up the steps, blessing yourself at the door, saying the back and forth with the priest, etc. And in my time, the mass was said in Latin. It was really something.

(aside) In many Irish-Catholic homes in Massachusetts you'll find two portraits somewhere in the house -
JFK and John XXIII.

[hrmjustin]

13. Tradition for my parish is to go after church to brunch and drink the pub out of beer.

Episcopalians can drink.