Religion
Related: About this forumAtheism has finally found its spiritual leader
Written by Tom Roston
2 hours ago
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More recently, theres been the militant atheism espoused by the likes of writer-raconteur Christopher Hitchens, who died in 2011, and evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, who once told a crowd to ridicule and mock people of faith. Mere believers are low-hanging fruit for Dawkins. He also regularly takes swipes at survivors (be it of child abuse or sexual assault), people with Down syndrome, you name it.
But there may be a parting of the waters. Last week author and neuroscientist Sam Harriss Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality without Religion was published. Harris is one of the so-called four horsemen of new atheism, along with Hitchens, Dawkins, and philosopher Daniel Dennett. Though Harris doesnt believe in a supreme power, he is advocating for spirituality, boundless love and a belief that there is more to understanding the human condition than science and secular culture generally admit.
Waking Up could be called a self-help book for atheists. Not that Harris would want us to do that; he doesnt run with the touchy-feely crowd. Nevertheless, hes writing for an audience (myself included) that needs some gentle guidance. Were talking about a group of people who are primarily skeptics, fiercely individualistic, and mostly non-joinersthose who identify themselves by what they dont believe in. This is not a crowd that easily rallies around any person or precept. About 10 years ago, an attempt was made amongst some atheists to embrace the label The Brights, but it didnt have legs.
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Harris writes: Many of my fellow atheists consider all talk of spirituality to be a sign of mental illness, conscious imposture, or self-deception. This is a problem, because millions of people have had experiences for which spiritual and mystical seem the only terms available.
http://qz.com/265152/atheism-has-finally-found-its-spiritual-leader/
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)With others? Interesting you post this without comment....
MADem
(135,425 posts)Just sayin'....
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It never bodes well for discussion when that's how the conversation goes.
rug
(82,333 posts)You thought wrong.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Although I hadn't realized atheism was seeking a spiritual leader, even if we take that as a starting point, Harris seems an unlikely person to fill that role. I recall reading one of his books a few years back, and basically the entire thrust of the book was 'Radical Muslims are going to get their hands on nuclear weapons, so humanity must abandon religion! It's simply too dangerous in the modern world of WMD.' He didn't exactly come across as a 'boundless love' type, but more of an anti-Pascal, whose new 'wager' suggested that we needed to not believe because chances were that belief would lead to disaster.
rug
(82,333 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Humanity must abandon religion because these people, who are so heavily invested in THEIR religion, to the point that they use it as a justification and excuse for everything they do, to include crimes against women, children and humanity in general, are the problem? Gotta wonder how he proposed to do that! The old "Kill 'em all and let God er, some vague spiritual principle, sort 'em out? (Heavy for the irony impaired, of course!)
I don't see how his proposal solves the problem he postulates--the people he wants to abandon their religion are unlikely to follow his lead, in fact, I could see a fet-wah in his future!!!!
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I think he is sincere, but one can never be sure when it comes to people whose income comes from the sale of ideas.
At any rate, I like it that he is not expressing overt hostility towards religion at this time.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I have the impression that he and Sam are talking about different ideas.
rug
(82,333 posts)Maybe it's because Krauss was sitting next to him.
It's odd that he used the word "reverence" (0:45) for the Milky Way.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)What does "spiritual" even mean? Hard to describe internal feelings? What?
As for finding a spiritual leader in Sam Harris, he's a good guy, but ... No. Not so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)(very nice party, too) and the word "sacred" was incorporated into the vows/comments at least three times.
I thought that was an interesting use of the word, though I will admit it surprised me to hear it at that particular venue. I always associated it with some sort of religious context (but then again, I always thought the word "dude" referred to either a cool male person from the late sixties/early seventies, or a fancy gentleman in the Wild West--not any person, from child to granny, of any gender). Words do change meanings over time!
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I'm trying to understand what the word might mean apart from religion. As long as the two of them understood, it's good.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I wasn't going to ask-I was there to smile, well-wish and hit the dance floor just a bit.
I figured the one "rule" was that there are no rules!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Sam Harris may be an atheist, but I do not require, nor seek his 'leadership' in any capacity.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)But what do you think of his take on spirituality?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)something more than just a strong, or 'big' experience wherein the person having it is having maybe multiple emotions at once.
But it begs questions like what do we consider a 'baseline' emotional experience, or a very strong, but negative emotional experience?
Do you watch any Pixar movies? In Ratatouille, the experience Ego has at the end, sampling the dish, and it takes him back in his memories to a time his mother made it, when he was a child (skinned knee, crashed bicycle). I liken 'transcendent' or what other people describe as transcendent, to that sort of strong emotional experience. Many emotions at once, sometimes a strong memory, or a strong sense of wonder or awe, but otherwise, mundane memory recall, or raw emotional response.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)of experiences that you refer to. I saw Ratatouille a long time ago and don't remember that scene, but I can relate to that experience.
There are many kinds of psychotherapies that encourage people to experience or re-experience particularly strong emotional states. Then, of course, there are drugs that will do something similar.
At any rate, it's interesting, though I tend to think it is all neurochemistry.
Starboard Tack
(11,181 posts)I've never felt any conflict between my atheism and my spirituality. Some people look for leaders or feel they need leaders, or guides. I guess that is a trait common throughout the animal kingdom. Happily, I've never felt that need, except when I can't get a good GPS signal.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)So, at that point, the rest of the article is probably useless pandering.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I disagree that the article is useless pandering.
If there is pandering going on, it is coming from Harris. But I don't think that's the case.
At least I hope it is not.
goldent
(1,582 posts)to not paraphrase the Rolling Stones
elleng
(131,203 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)there is a growing demographic of those who say they are spiritual but not religious. In some sections of the atheist community, these people are not necessarily made to feel welcome, even though they identify as atheists. They aren't the right kind of atheist.
He may provide the support and reassurance that some people are seeking.
That's ok, imo.
jambo101
(797 posts)When as an atheist i dont practice a religion,i dont think about religion,i dont talk about religion,i go to no church and really dont care about any aspect of religion.
So what is this supposed leader going to do to get my attention and where is he going to lead me.?