Religion
Related: About this forumThe Toxicity Of Religious Belief Systems
However, this assertion of his really caught my eye, as it starkly highlights the essential difference between the cognitive makeup of normal decent people and the pathology of religious (or other right-wing) authoritarian followers:
I wanted to assume, charitably, that some religious authoritarians were merely cloistered and unreflective, and had not really thought through the logical consequences of their positions.
The issue isnt inattention or unreflectiveness. Religious authoritarian followers and other sorts of right-wing authoritarian followers have a cognitive makeup in which there simply is no such thing as objective realitywhether logical or empiricalthat demands any sort of consistency whatsoever. It is hard for people whose minds arent warped in that particular way to grasp, but the notion that an assertion of fact has to be true or false simply doesnt exist for them. When you are operating in such a cognitive regime, what normal decent people see as denial, hypocrisy, inconsistency, petulant demands for special privileges, and lying are indistinguishable from their opposites.
It was like John Kyl and that was not intended as a factual statement. When *nothing* is intended as a factual statementindeed, when there are no such things as factsthere can be no such things as hypocrisy, inconsistency, or lying. And this is what makes genuine religious belief so utterly toxic: it demands rejection at the deepest level of cognition of the very notion of fact.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/physioprof/2012/04/12/the-toxicity-of-religious-belief-systems/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
There is a link embedded in this article that goes to Batocchio's article (I just don't know how to do that)and it is also an interesting read.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)"Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it cant be taken on its own merits."
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You know, this place is better when you are here.
longship
(40,416 posts)tama
(9,137 posts)is a philosophical position:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivity_%28philosophy%29#Objectivism
There is much more to logic than bivalent logic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bivalent_logic
The message seems to be that if someone does not believe in objectivism and bivalent logic and that world consists of mere factual statements aka propositions - as "normal decent people" should believe, then they are evil (article uses litany of negative adjectives that I short as "evil" .
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)But I would be lying my ass off if I said that your posts didn't immediately pop into my mind when I first read this article.
tama
(9,137 posts)to doubt the factual statements of post #5 and I consider the hypothesis that belief in objectivism, bivalent logic and propositionalism does in fact reduce to certain neurological processes in the brain, quite plausible.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)was not an act of psychosis.
tama
(9,137 posts)From your comment I see that subconsciouss is talking to you - or rather through you - loud and clear.
From the point of view of spiritual evolution (which is in fact quite physical), psychosis is about facing and overcoming fears. And there's nothing to fear but fear itself.
From the point of view of social norms and fearfull ego, psychosis is a social stigma, a mental disease to be avoided at all costs.
So depending from the point of view, psychosis is both disease and cure.
Sentath
(2,243 posts)is http://vagabondscholar.blogspot.com/2012/04/my-god-can-beat-up-your-god-defining.html
A wonderful article.
saras
(6,670 posts)If you meant post 4, personally I consider it namecalling, and an example of the sort of fascist thought the article is criticizing.
"When you are operating in such a cognitive regime, what normal decent people see as denial, hypocrisy, inconsistency, petulant demands for special privileges, and lying are indistinguishable from their opposites."
Personally I would substitute "primates" for "normal, decent people" - a rhetorical error on the author's part, easily remedied without altering the essential truth of the statement. Monkeys know what denial is, they know what hypocrisy is, they know what lying is, and they don't need anyone's social theory to explain how they REALLY work.
I'm beginning to think that people who grow up with media and get intellectual jobs straight out of school are incapable, through lack of brain development, of understanding certain things about the nonhuman world, almost as though they lost their chance to wire physical laws into their worldview. But the most bizarre arguments about truth and reality always come from people who think people are the universe, and would apparently be equally happy as disembodied brains in vats.
The way you can tell? If you experience anything "real" about virtual reality, instead of experiencing yourself on your ass in a chair, staring at computer screens with plastic doodads in your hands.
Response to saras (Reply #8)
Post removed
rrneck
(17,671 posts)Comrade PhysioProf
(1 post)for the link!
rug
(82,333 posts)Thanks for being explicit.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)This is really what this article is about. But you know that.
rug
(82,333 posts)Not about theocracy, the religious right, pedophilia, psychotic delusions and all the other reasons posited for disgust with religion.
It is the very notion of religious belief itself, no matter the particular belief, that is considered abhorrent.
A bold, yet untenable, position.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)I can understand how your rejection at the deepest level of cognition of the very notion of fact will never allow us to find real agreement.
rug
(82,333 posts)I do however reject superficial passive-aggressive evasion.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Didn't think you could last.
eqfan592
(5,963 posts)Viva_Daddy
(785 posts)toxic.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)"more true" than other people's is also potentially toxic.
Particularly when there is a need to fight against those that have used religion to try and destroy the basic tenets of the Democratic party (or liberal/progressive ideals in general).
trotsky
(49,533 posts)A very important word.
darkstar3
(8,763 posts)provis99
(13,062 posts)The church sign is a quotation from Martin Luther.