Notre Dame professor tackles ‘myth’ of Christian martyrdom

[Gore1FL]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/notre-dame-professor-tackles-myth-christian-martyrdom-151620492.html

I don't know if the article presented any new information, exactly, but there were pretty amusing things in it. For example:

In fact, in the first 250 years of Christianity, Romans mostly regarded the religion's practitioners as meddlesome members of a superstitious cult.
(I feel so Roman now.)

many of the best known early stories of brave Christian martyrs were entirely fabricated.
(So have "many of the best known stories in the Bible...)

Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules.
(Like Eric Rudolf?)

Anyways, click the link. If someone wants to cross-post the article in religion, feel free. I am not up to dealing with it.

[skepticscott]

1. Well, in some cases

it was because they wouldn't follow Roman rules regarding paying proper homage to the Roman gods, out of deference to and fear of their own. So it really was about their religious beliefs. In those cases, the Romans didn't particularly care whether you adhered to Jehovah, as long as you also kept Zeus and company happy with at least a token sacrifice.

[TxDemChem]

2. I was just telling a catholic coworker yesterday

About how the sacrament was derived from Osiris, the god of grain/wheat. She looked at me crazy, especially when I said the Egyptian myth preceded Christianity by more than a millennia (if I remember correctly, it was about 2500 years prior). Christians don't seem to know where their ideas come from. Good to see a prof telling it like it is.

[mzteris]

4. Nearly all of stories from early chapters

of the Bible (and whatever parts of the Torah that correspond, I suppose) such as the creation myth, noah, moses, etc. . . all predate the existence of the Hebrew/Jews/Israelites whatever you want to call the early patriarchal group of goat herders that created that segment of religion.

Read The Epic of Gilgamesh, the Enuma Elish, The Code of Hammurabi . . .

[TxDemChem]

5. Lol I was looking for ways to introduce her

To the epic of Gilgamesh yesterday, but her friend died maybe 30 minutes after she and discussed Egyptian mythology. I figured she had enough on her plate. But I think I may bring up Hammurabi to another coworker who thinks there were no morals before the Old Testament. I think it was comedian Penn who said he's already killed as many people as he wants to - none. We don't need the Bible to tell us what is right and wrong.

[onager]

6. And about that parting of the Red Sea...

Here's a story from the reign of Pharoah Snefru, ca. 2613 to 2589 BCE. According to the always reliable Xian websites (insert eye-roll), the Exodus took place about 1000 years later, ca. 1496 BCE.

Snefru left plenty of evidence that he lived - like the Red & Bent Pyramids at Dashur. He was the father of Khufu, who built the Great Pyramid. (I lived in Egypt for 4 years and heard a lot about Snefru. He's still remembered as "the good Pharoah" who cared about the common people.)

Our story so far - needing a break from Pharoahing, Snefru is floating on a lake in his boat, being rowed by "the 20 fairest maidens" in his household.

Because inquiring minds want to know - all those maidens are dressed only in fishnets made of golden thread. Which not surprisingly perked the old Pharoah right up.

But suddenly, the women stop rowing. Their time-keeper, in the front of the boat, has lost a turquoise amulet given to her by the Pharoah. It fell in the lake.

"No big deal," Snefru says. "Keep rowing and I'll give you another, better amulet."

Nothing doing. She wants THAT amulet back, and no other. And she's on strike until she gets it back.

So the Pharoah summons his court magician, Zazamankh, to recover the amulet. And we read a suspiciously familiar story...

Then Zazamankh stood at the stern of the Royal Boat and began to chant great spells and words of power.

And presently he held out his wand over the water, and the lake parted as if a piece had been cut out of it with a great sword.

The lake here was twenty feet deep, and the piece of water that the magician moved rose up and set itself upon the surface of the lake so that there was a cliff of water on that side forty feet high.

Now the Royal Boat slid gently down into the great cleft in the lake until it rested on the bottom. On the side towards the forty foot cliff of water there was a great open space where the bottom of the lake lay uncovered, as firm and dry as the land itself. And there, just below the stern of the Royal Boat, lay the turquoise amulet.

With a cry of joy the maiden who had lost it sprang over the side on to the firm ground, picked it up and placed it once more on her person. Then she climbed swiftly back into the Royal Boat and took the steering oar into her hands once more. Zazamankh slowly lowered his rod, and the Royal Boat slid up the side of the water until it was level with the surface once more. Then at another word of power, and as if drawn by the magician's rod, the great piece of water slid back into place, and the evening breeze rippled the still surface of the lake as if nothing out of the ordinary had happened.

http://www.perankhgroup.com/The%20lotus%20flower.htm

[mzteris]

8. Thank you!

I've never heard that particular story! I love it!

[onager]

9. You're welcome! And Moses wasn't the only basket case...

Born a commoner. Threatened with death as an infant. Placed in a waterproof basket by his Mom and sent floating down a river...

The story of Moses, of course.

Or, hundreds of years earlier...the story of the Babylonian king Sargon.

It's fun reading Xian websites and seeing them try to explain away this stuff.

"No, the original story was about Moses. The Evil Pagans stole that story and used it much later, but made it appear to be older..."

Right. The same way fossils only appear to be really old because Gawd made them that way to test our faith. But none are REALLY older than 6000 years.

[mbperrin]

3. Oddly, the Bible commands its adherents to conform to the secular authorities all the way through.

No case for rebellion can be found in the New Testament. Yet the glorification of the rule-breakers continues apace.

[Bolo Boffin]

7. I'm reading her book right now. It's excellent. n/t